Lightning

[Sir Galahad]

Its that time of year again and the fun is about to start. Was on Long Island tonight in full Lightning gear to watch TB beat the Islanders. Must say that the Islander fans are so much better than Ranger fans its not even close. Fun times tonight, its always good when everyone can come together and make fun of Canadian fans.

 

[1ofTheseKnights]

Get a Make America Great Again hat

 

[crambone]

BE THE THUNDER!!!

 

[1ofTheseKnights]

Got their shit pushed in tonight

 

[Sir Galahad]

Easy to see coming, Stralman, Filppula, Kucherov, Callahan are all out. Filppula and Callahan should be back this week, they will be fine.

 

[AlumKnight02]

Go Panthers!!!!!!

 

[UCFan416]

Easy to see coming, Stralman, Filppula, Kucherov, Callahan are all out. Filppula and Callahan should be back this week, they will be fine.

And had a game night before, so no Bish.

 

[UCFKnight85]

And had a game night before, so no Bish.

Vasy has been really bad in his past few starts. I get that they want to rest Bishop but given how tight the division is, there's really no room to throw Vasy out there and hope he figures things out. That first goal the Panthers got was terrible; the forward was at an extreme angle but Vasy let himself drift beyond the post and expose the entire far side of the net.

 

[UCFWayne]

We had a little watch party for the game. The result sucked. Hard to beat a team when their goalie is having a stellar night.

 

[UCFKnight85]

Has anyone in south Florida realized that their hockey team is good this year? Or still drawing absolute flies?

 

[UCF-icenhl-06]

Has anyone in south Florida realized that their hockey team is good this year? Or still drawing absolute flies?

Attendance Up 35% with a arena that will still forever be out in the middle of ****ing nowhere. And yes plenty of media attention. Had a family member, who i never knew even paid attention, text me the other day "HOW THE **** DID WE JUST LOSE TO THE ISLANDERS LIKE THAT?!". People are also aware of the young 'elite level talent' guys like Barkov and Ekblad.

With solid on-ice product, the Panthers can be more than solid when it comes to interest/attendance. But they need to build back up the season ticket base which is virtually non existent. Pretty much every game has to be filled by walkups.

Bottom line is if Tampa can draw people after winning then Florida will have no problem at all if they can actually win a playoff series for the first time since 1996.

 

[UCFKnight85]

Attendance Up 35% with a arena that will still forever be out in the middle of ****ing nowhere. And yes plenty of media attention. Had a family member, who i never knew even paid attention, text me the other day "HOW THE **** DID WE JUST LOSE TO THE ISLANDERS LIKE THAT?!". People are also aware of the young 'elite level talent' guys like Barkov and Ekblad.

With solid on-ice product, the Panthers can be more than solid when it comes to interest/attendance. But they need to build back up the season ticket base which is virtually non existent. Pretty much every game has to be filled by walkups.

Bottom line is if Tampa can draw people after winning then Florida will have no problem at all if they can actually win a playoff series for the first time since 1996.

The Panthers will not sustain a fanbase like Tampa if they don't move out of Sunrise. I visited my friend in Plantation and was shocked to find that the arena was around the corner on the edge of the Everglades. FL went from 30th last year to 25th this year. A good jump but still not encouraging considering they're a First Place team right now.

Tampa has done a hell of a job building an area-wide legion of fans for the Lightning. Vinik has put tons and tons of money into the arena and the surrounding area and they treat the fans like kings. Yea it helps the team has been good but there was a stretch where they weren't, but the stands still weren't empty.

 

[UCFWayne]

The Panthers will not sustain a fanbase like Tampa if they don't move out of Sunrise. I visited my friend in Plantation and was shocked to find that the arena was around the corner on the edge of the Everglades. FL went from 30th last year to 25th this year. A good jump but still not encouraging considering they're a First Place team right now.

Tampa has done a hell of a job building an area-wide legion of fans for the Lightning. Vinik has put tons and tons of money into the arena and the surrounding area and they treat the fans like kings. Yea it helps the team has been good but there was a stretch where they weren't, but the stands still weren't empty.

85 is right. Sunrise just is not a good location for the team. It is really in the middle of no where. My in laws go to games all the time, but even they admit, its a terrible location. Its a far drive from everywhere.

 

[UCFKnight85]

 

[UCF-icenhl-06]

FL went from 30th last year to 25th this year. A good jump but still not encouraging considering they're a First Place team right now.

A 35% jump isnt encouraging? Christ......

And keep in mind the team hasnt actually done anything yet. A 35% jump for a solid regular season and 'potential' should be very encouraging.

Yea it helps the team has been good but there was a stretch where they weren't, but the stands still weren't empty.

Actually that has most everything to do with it. You are really underselling how much just 1 Stanley Cup does for a hockey franchise. It allows you to have a down period after it and still be in good shape. Not to mention you have had Stamkos since 2008. Lightning won in 2004. Florida had a higher attendance just a couple of years before that in 2002.

Hell, Florida drafted off of the 1996 Finals appearance for like a decade but eventually two decades without a playoff series buries any attendance base. And yea, the arena in Sunrise sucks because unless you have a reason to go all the way out there, you wont.

Just look at basketball as an example. Miami won the title in 2006 and never had a significant attendance dropoff between then and LeBron. And now post Lebron, they are still drawing well. Compare that to Cleveland which went from like 2nd to 2nd to last in attendance in just a year after LeBron left the first time.

 

[UCFKnight85]

A 35% jump sounds good, until you understand that it's 35% because FL was starting from the absolute bottom of the barrel in total attendance. I don't know what the financial situation is there, but most NHL teams struggle to make any money with teams that draw well and post great TV ratings. I'm sure the Panther management was hoping for a much bigger move up the attendance rankings than to 25th with an 88% capacity average.

If there's no viable way to get a new arena done in south Florida and the Panthers can't crack the Top 20 during a playoff run, then I have to imagine the owners will start quickly looking elsewhere.

That 12% capacity slack makes a huge difference. It means they can't sell tickets at any higher prices and generate that extra revenue that they'd expect from having a first place team. On the other hand, the Lightning are running at 101% of capacity and are able to raise prices for premium single game seating. That's precious extra revenue.

 

[UCF-icenhl-06]

You're still using a Stanley Cup winner with the best forward in the league for almost a decade now as a benchmark for a team that has been to the playoffs once since 2000 and hasnt won a series since 1996.

a 35% jump with no season ticket base and basically nothing but walkups...but a team that still hasnt actually won anything......is a significant jump. It's the 'year before the year' where you would expect a bigger jump. You also have to take into account that the team didnt start the season "in 1st place on playoff run"....that kind of attendance momentum has to build over time. I know the team went over 20K a couple of times recently. So the momentum is there.

Also worth noting that the ownership stopped dumping extra tickets for peanuts on aftermarket sites with the goal of inflating attendance numbers and selling a couple extra beers. this practice drove the season ticket base down to crap too because of the price integrity issues.

It's pretty simple - Tampa proves that hockey can work in Florida. If the Panthers actually do something this postseason (just win a series), then expect another big jump next season. Thats how it works. Then hopefully we will finally get a Stadium Series game between Florida and Tampa at Marlins Park - which would be amazing.

 

[AlumKnight02]

You guys that say Sunrise is in the middle of nowhere obviously don't live around here. I live right next to the arena, I can walk to the games. With the Sawgrass, 75, and 595 right around the corner, I can be at the beach, downtown Ft. Lauderdale, or boca raton (where a large portion of fan base lives) in 15-20 minutes. You can be in West Palm or Miami in 45 minutes, it's basically halfway between the two. Parking is easy and flows well in and out. The sawgrass mills mall is directly across the street and is packed on a daily basis so obviously it is not difficult for lots of people to get to. They have been building lots of high end condos in the area and are starting more construction.

It's true that the fan base is weak but just like every other team down here they will come out for a big event like the playoffs. I was at 3 of the 4 home games when they played the Devils a few years ago and the place was jumping. The team has sucked for a long time now so nobody went to the games. You can see the same thing happening with the Dolphins now too.

As for the tickets, you could not give them away for years. I would get free tickets all the time. I check stubhub for ticket prices almost every game even if I don't plan on going. You can't get in the door for less than $20. That's saying a lot compared to what it used to be. If you want to sit downstairs it will cost you between $50-60 and that's if you wait right up until the game starts for a week night game against a west coast team. On the weekends or against a team from New York or Canada prices are $100 for good seats. There are a lot of fans from visiting teams.

They have been a fun team to watch this year and with a lot of young talent, they should be able to sustain some success for a while. The lack of playoff experience will probably hurt them but it would be nice to see them make some noise in the playoffs.

 

[Poolside Knight]

success has helped the Lightning attendance but it's not the only factor. The owner poured in a bunch of money to upgrade the Arena to mimik the Orlando Magic Arena with standing bar areas to hang out. He's made it the go to weeknight hangout.

The Panthers need to either do a major upgrade or build a new Arena near the intercoastal in Ft. Lauderdale

 

[UCFWayne]

AlumKnight02, just because you live close by doesnt mean its in the middle of no where. The fact is, its away from Ft Lauderdale, and even further from Miami. If it were somewhere in the Ft Lauderdale downtown, that would be a great location.

 

[AlumKnight02]

Like I said, Ft lauderdale is 15 minutes away. Not that far to travel for a game. I can get to downtown Ft lauderdale much quicker than you can get to downtown Orlando from UCF. The arena itself is nice. They have some nice all you can eat and drink sections. Club Lexus is on the lower level at center ice. It has top quality food and drinks. It's the seats you see that are empty on tv because a lot of people are in the club. ADT club is a bit higher up with food and drinks included and Sky Club offers the same at the top of the arena.

The arena holds the top acts in town. Just in the last few months they have had Billy Joel, Bruce Springsteen, many more. Pearl Jam is here next week. They have no problem filling up 20,000 seats. If the Panthers were consistently good, the place would be packed every night. Attendance has been much better this year. The games I have been to have been sellouts.

 

[UCFWayne]

One time events are different from re-occurring sporting events. Ive been to a number of Panther games. Normally go to at least one game a season. Nothing wrong with the Arena.

Meanwhile the rest of South Florida will continue to call Sunrise the middle of no where.

 

[AlumKnight02]

Well I guess that makes Broward County nowhere, since Sunrise is basically in the middle, even if it is west. Surrounding neighborhoods of Coral Springs, Weston, Plantation, Tamarac, and Davie are within 5-10 minutes. I have taken the express lanes on 595 and gone from I-95 to 136th St. (Where the arena is) in 10 minutes and I don't drive very fast (75 mph).

I think the Marlins would have been better off having their new stadium by the arena and make it a big sports complex. Nobody goes to their games and they are right by downtown Miami. Like I said, it's a front running town. If the Panthers win, they will draw big crowds. If they suck, like they have for much of the last 20 years, nobody will go no matter where the arena is located. You can substitute the word Panthers with Dolphins, Heat, Marlins, or Hurricanes.

 

[UCF-icenhl-06]

Alum i appreciate your defense of "west south florida" (i grew up partially in Weston) but you have to think of this relative to other basketball/hockey sports arenas - which of many are in downtowns or city centers, not in suburbs. Sunrise - while accessible on many highways, is still "out west" and "in the suburbs" and next to a "giant outlet mall". If the arena was in Pembroke Pines, we wouldnt be touting that its "near Ft Lauderdale"

Yes you can "get anywhere from Sunrise" but thats still a far cry from actually being somewhere. Not that theres room for it, but imagine the arena off Las Olas or something. THAT is location. Basically anything up and down 95 is considered location for South Florida. up and down 75, and away from the ocean, is very much 'no where' relatively.

 

[Knight_Magic]

See Glendale Arizona and the Arizona Coyotes and they have the same problem. An arena 15 miles outside of the city limits on the wrong side of town in a city of 4 million + people. Location is key in a good majority of these franchises.

 

[AlumKnight02]

Ok Sunrise is not Ft Lauderdale. My main points were that it's not that far like some people originally said and that the attendance is mostly based on winning. If the arena was on Las Olas and the team had the same results for the last 15 years, the numbers would look pretty similar. If this team makes a deep run, it will be the hottest ticket in town.

 

[Sir Galahad]

The only sport that would have consistently high attendance in Miami is soccer.

 

[brahmanknight]

The only sport that would have consistently high attendance in Miami is soccer.

Like the Miami Fusion?

 

[UCFKnight85]

Ok Sunrise is not Ft Lauderdale. My main points were that it's not that far like some people originally said and that the attendance is mostly based on winning. If the arena was on Las Olas and the team had the same results for the last 15 years, the numbers would look pretty similar. If this team makes a deep run, it will be the hottest ticket in town.

You're going overboard in your defense of the arena location. Why would it be the "hottest ticket in town" later on if the Panthers are still only averaging 88% of capacity while being in First Place for the past few months? Lacking sellouts is by definition not a hot ticket.

The arena in sunrise has the same issue that the Rays stadium in St Pete has. The area is fine, the geographic location relative to the majority of the population in the area is not fine.

Also, selling out for Elton John has absolutely nothing to do with drawing fans for NHL games.

 

[Sir Galahad]

Like the Miami Fusion?

Don't know couldn't name two soccer teams in the Country but the demographic fits soccer more than any other sport.

 

[Bob the Citronaut]

Brooksville isn't in the middle of nowhere. I can be in Orlando in an hour and Tampa in 45 minutes. They should build an arena here.

 

[UCFWayne]

The Marlins dont do well in attendance because fans have turned on the ownership. Parking is another issue, but not as big as the hate for the ownership.

 

[cnsaguy]

Brooksville isn't in the middle of nowhere. I can be in Orlando in an hour and Tampa in 45 minutes. They should build an arena here.

They build arenas for dog and cock fighting? Who knew....

 

[AlumKnight02]

Hockey is by far the 4th sport in a crappy sports town. It is an event town. People here want to go to big events, like the playoffs. Before Shaq came to town nobody really cared about the Heat, and they were pretty good. After they won it dipped again until Lebron showed up. When the Marlins went to the World Series in 03' they did not draw great all year. There were spikes in attendance when Dontrell Willis pitched because that's what people wanted to watch. They were not getting 30,000 for games, but when the playoffs started and World Series happened they had to open up the whole stadium to sit over 65,000.

Sadly most people down here don't even know the Panthers are in first place. When they made the playoffs in 2012, it was a hot ticket because it was the place to be. I took 9 other guys to game 7 against the Devils. I don't think 5 of them had ever seen a hockey game in their life, but they wanted to go for the experience.

I'm not trying to defend the area as much as I'm saying it's not as big of a factor you are making it out to be. The Heat have an arena in the middle of downtown Miami and don't sell out every game. You couldn't pay me (and lots of people in Palm Beach or Broward) to drive down there, deal with the traffic and parking disaster. The Marlins built a baseball stadium in Little Havana and can't draw flys. The whole reason Joe Robbie and the Dolphins put their stadium where they did was because they wanted to make it easy for people in West Palm, Broward, and Dade. It's right in the middle with easy access to the turnpike, just like the Panthers arena is centralized with 3 main highways to take you in every direction.

One big reason a lot of other cities have arenas in the middle of downtown is because they have mass transportation like trains to get you in and out easily. You could not do that in Fort Lauderdale. Traffic getting back to I-95 would be a nightmare.

It's not like there isn't anything else around the arena. If you want to have dinner before a game, there are 20 restaurants across the street. You can drop off the wife at the mall for a few hours and walk across the street to the game if you like.

Bottom line is, attendance struggles have been mostly due to 1) poor product for a long period of time, 2) poor sports town in general, 3) hockey is behind the other major sports here. Location of the arena has little effect. If the Panthers do well in the playoffs this year and come back again next year with a solid season and another playoff run things will pick up a lot. They started to build momentum a few years ago but then sucked right after. If they were to win a cup like the Lightning or even make the finals things would be a lot different.

 

[UCFWayne]

tldr; south florida is a terrible sports market.

 

[brahmanknight]

Can we all agree that Miami-Dade sucks?

 

[cnsaguy]

tldr; south florida is a terrible sports market.

FIFY

 

[1ofTheseKnights]

About Stuart or so south the cringing starts every time I have to visit the cesspool.

Like every shittiest part of FL on steroids crammed in to a couple little postage stamps with vastly overrated beaches, but please stay there, can't beat it...

 

[UCF-icenhl-06]

After they won it dipped again until Lebron showed up

I dont think they ever dropped into the second half of the league ever since Dwayne Wade and/or Pat Riley got there (im not sure of the timeline). Compare that to Cleveland post LeBron.

Bottom line is you are overselling suburbs and massively underselling city centers as an ideal location for multi-use arenas. Having to drive 15-20-30 minutes is a huge detriment to consistent walk-up traffic.

Like the Miami Fusion?

Oh and if you want to talk about a bad stadium location....woooooooooof on Lockhart Stadium.

 

[UCF-icenhl-06]

YWhy would it be the "hottest ticket in town" later on if the Panthers are still only averaging 88% of capacity while being in First Place for the past few months? Lacking sellouts is by definition not a hot ticket.

I mean...did you read anything I said? This is the momentum building year that leads into "the year" and the second half of the year has been great for attendance. Just like the Lightning didnt shoot from bottom 25% of the league pre-cup to top instantly. In was gradual over a couple of years and then tipped by the Cup win.

I'd type more. But I already did ITT.