Lot 13+ F-35 overall cost now less than a F-16

[UCFBS]

Although I want to cut the US military 70% for a 30% budget savings as a radical, isolationist Libertarian, because Congress (both parties) are unwilling to cut their districts' funding where defense programs thrive, it's these types of deals we need ...

• Trump Drives Down Price Of F-35 Fighter 25% From Obama Level
  https://www.forbes.com/sites/lorent...wn-price-of-f-35-fighter-25-from-obama-level/
  
  QUOTE: "... I saw the company’s angst up close as [Lockheed] endured unprecedented pressure from the nation’s chief executive ... the price-tag for the F-35A below $80 million when Lot 13 is reached ... less than the price of a new F-16 ... the Trump administration has negotiated down the price of each F-35A by an impressive 25% ... between Obama ... and Trump negotiation, the unit cost of the Air Force version is down 27%, ... Marine ... 27%, ... Navy over 30% ... By bundling ... significantly reduce future sustainment costs for keeping each F-35 flying ... to deliver economies in sustainment comparable to what are being achieved in production."

Politicians without business experience don't understand this, but I was hopeful the Trump administration would address the real engineering-production cost, long-term sustainment -- 70-85% of total cost. And Trump has, both acquisition and long-term sustainment cost.

I still wish we would have never built anything but the F-35B for the USMC, RN/RAF and select others, and just built more F-22s (including a navalized version), let alone sold them to dozens of allies, bringing the costs down to $100M/unit. But that aside, Trump has achieved success here.

 

[chemmie]

Bullshit. Lockheed Martin is one of the largest corporate welfare recipients in this country. They wouldn't exist without your taxpayers dollars, and I'm not talking about their government contracts.

 

[ucfversusbcs]

Bullshit. Lockheed Martin is one of the largest corporate welfare recipients in this country. They wouldn't exist without your taxpayers dollars, and I'm not talking about their government contracts.

Curious which security company is protecting BS when they socialism at the local level is fully broken up.

 

[UCFBS]

And idiots show up who don't want to actually address the realities.

 

[UCFKnight85]

Bullshit. Lockheed Martin is one of the largest corporate welfare recipients in this country. They wouldn't exist without your taxpayers dollars, and I'm not talking about their government contracts.

Then give back the massive 401K earnings and salary dollars in your bank account for years of working there you raging hypocrite

 

[goodknightfl]

yeah but they probably tripled the cost of toilet seats in the hangers and doubled the $200 16 oz impact drivers to make up the difference.

 

[chemmie]

Then give back the massive 401K earnings and salary dollars in your bank account for years of working there you raging hypocrite

How does it feel knowing you're paying my pension because LM would rather take profits than pay promised benefits to their employees?
I know you're too stupid to realize it, but my former employment has ZERO to do with LM's siphoning of taxpayers dollars from you and every other American. Then again, you already dodged this same topic in the Boeing thread, too. You're happy living in your imaginary capitalist utopia with your head up your ass.

 

[UCFKnight85]

How does it feel knowing you're paying my pension because LM would rather take profits than pay promised benefits to their employees?
I know you're too stupid to realize it, but my former employment has ZERO to do with LM's siphoning of taxpayers dollars from you and every other American. Then again, you already dodged this same topic in the Boeing thread, too. You're happy living in your imaginary capitalist utopia with your head up your ass.

No, I just think you're a raging hypocrite which you are. You whine and bitch about LM all the time yet I bet the majority of the money in your bank account right now came from LM.

You were so brave and courageous for taking a stand against LM and the defense industry, as you collected your bi weekly check from them. What a true culture warrior!

 

[chemmie]

No, I just think you're a raging hypocrite which you are. You whine and bitch about LM all the time yet I bet the majority of the money in your bank account right now came from LM.

You were so brave and courageous for taking a stand against LM and the defense industry, as you collected your bi weekly check from them. What a true culture warrior!

For the second time, my employment has nothing to do with LM (or Boeing, or...) collecting billions in your taxpayer dollars while your dumb ass continues to espouse the beauties of the "free market." But if it makes you feel better, keep ignoring the elephant in the room and keep talking about me.

 

[Knight_Classes_begin_7pm]

Bullshit. Lockheed Martin is one of the largest corporate welfare recipients in this country. They wouldn't exist without your taxpayers dollars, and I'm not talking about their government contracts.

Exactly! I've worked for a government military contractor. To get funding we would have to submit estimates for projects. Even if the projects weren't really happening, if you didn't submit for it, your budget would shrink for the next year. So, we pumped up the numbers.

 

[chemmie]

Guys like 85 bitch and moan constantly about "free stuff" for people in poverty, but don't bat an eye that corporations like LM and Boeing receive exponentially more of their tax dollars. Then they go to church, throw a few bucks in the basket for pederasts, and feel better about themselves.

 

[UCFWayne]

i would love for the budget to get slashed. then the the military would have less of my money to throw around. too bad thats not going to happen.

 

[Knight_Classes_begin_7pm]

Guys like 85 bitch and moan constantly about "free stuff" for people in poverty, but don't bat an eye that corporations like LM and Boeing receive exponentially more of their tax dollars. Then they go to church, throw a few bucks in the basket for pederasts, and feel better about themselves.

The wasted money, and the money that goes to the Military, is SO much larger than any social program or, for instance teachers pay.

 

[chemmie]

i would love for the budget to get slashed. then the the military would have less of my money to throw around. too bad thats not going to happen.

it isn't just the military budget. The amount of money corporations like LM and Boeing receive ON TOP OF military contracts is in the multiple billions.

 

[UCFKnight85]

Guys like 85 bitch and moan constantly about "free stuff" for people in poverty, but don't bat an eye that corporations like LM and Boeing receive exponentially more of their tax dollars. Then they go to church, throw a few bucks in the basket for pederasts, and feel better about themselves.

I volunteer every Sunday and help poor people in St Pete with great people from my church. You’re an angry hypocritical shithead who doesn’t lift a finger for anyone you profess to care about.

You’re just mad since most of your wealth is from an evil defense contractor and you now look like a hypocritical bitch, so you’re making broad assertions about how evil the whole industry is to once again virtue signal in an attempt to say something and do nothing .

Lol!

 

[chemmie]

I volunteer every Sunday and help poor people in St Pete with great people from my church. You’re an angry hypocritical shithead who doesn’t lift a finger for anyone you profess to care about.

You’re just mad since most of your wealth is from an evil defense contractor and you now look like a hypocritical bitch, so you’re making broad assertions about how evil the whole industry is to once again virtue signal in an attempt to say something and do nothing .

Lol!

Can't make this shit up.
How can you possibly be such a dumbass?

 

[sk8knight]

Exactly! I've worked for a government military contractor. To get funding we would have to submit estimates for projects. Even if the projects weren't really happening, if you didn't submit for it, your budget would shrink for the next year. So, we pumped up the numbers.

If you ever get caught doing that in an audit you will get fined and possibly decertified. It’s a really big deal and big defense contractors have paid hundreds of millions of dollars in fines for doing it.

Now, if the agency says they have a million to spend and asks you what value they can get for their million, that’s business.

I also notice that you ignore the other side of the equation where the lowest cost or “best value” contracts cause defense contractors to submit RFPs at a low cost with a ton of risk all on the contractor. Then the DoD PM shop mismanaged the project and causes a failure and won’t own up to their role, thus making the contractor cure the failure at their own cost. Or the millions companies put into R&D and RFPs without any recompense when they lose. Which they can’t just capitalize like a non-DOD contractor because of DFARS. Or the DFARS subcontracting rules that force inefficiencies. Or I could go on and on.

At least tell all sides of the story before you make an assertion that the bigger defense contractors are just robbing the country.

 

[UCFWayne]

it isn't just the military budget. The amount of money corporations like LM and Boeing receive ON TOP OF military contracts is in the multiple billions.

i can agree with some of that. why not lower the budget a good bit and lower our taxes at the same time. then you would have more of your own money in your pocket. then you could take that money and donate it to the causes you think deserve it the most, vs some corporate well fare thing. is that something you could agree on?

 

[UCFKnight85]

Can't make this shit up.
How can you possibly be such a dumbass?

You're the guy railing against Lockheed Martin when most of your wealth is from Lockheed Martin.

Do you not understand that this disqualifies you from even attempting to speak on this issue? Hypocrite doesn't begin to explain this.

 

[chemmie]

You're the guy railing against Lockheed Martin when most of your wealth is from Lockheed Martin.

Do you not understand that this disqualifies you from even attempting to speak on this issue? Hypocrite doesn't begin to explain this.

No, it doesn't. You just choose to focus on that because you're a moron who can't understand the reality that your beloved "free market" is a farce, and your beloved corporations receive far more handouts and "free stuff" than all of the poor freeloaders you rally against combined.

My wealth isn't from LM. My wealth is from the work I have performed. Right? This is your wonderful capitalism in action. Stop being an imbecile, and stop getting side tracked.

 

[UCFKnight85]

No, it doesn't. You just choose to focus on that because you're a moron who can't understand the reality that your beloved "free market" is a farce, and your beloved corporations receive far more handouts and "free stuff" than all of the poor freeloaders you rally against combined.

My wealth isn't from LM. My wealth is from the work I have performed. Right? This is your wonderful capitalism in action. Stop being an imbecile, and stop getting side tracked.

The US Army just bought a new handgun at a price that no other customer in the world could have or has bought a handgun at. And it's all because 5 companies competed tooth and nail for that contract. Can you stop your crying about free markets for a minute and explain how that happens if free markets and competition is so bad?

And no, it's not being sidetracked to call you out for being a raging hypocrite. You can't work at a company and take their money for years and years all while telling your idiot friends how awful it is that we have contractors like LM and what a terrible company it is. If you actually had a moral compass like you claim then you never would have worked there. Hypocrite.

 

[NinjaKnight]

The US Army just bought a new handgun at a price that no other customer in the world could have or has bought a handgun at. And it's all because 5 companies competed tooth and nail for that contract. Can you stop your crying about free markets for a minute and explain how that happens if free markets and competition is so bad?

And no, it's not being sidetracked to call you out for being a raging hypocrite. You can't work at a company and take their money for years and years all while telling your idiot friends how awful it is that we have contractors like LM and what a terrible company it is. If you actually had a moral compass like you claim then you never would have worked there. Hypocrite.

Why do you purposefully and continually have to lie to try to win your argument? Yes, the Army bought the sig pistols for a great, price, what you fail to mention is the contract that is included with those pistols is 10x the price of the guns themselves.

You always do this, and you got tired of me pointing out the hypocrisy and flat out lies you post, so you blocked me, because you are a the epitome of a little bitch who can't handle reality.

 

[UCFBS]

Exactly! I've worked for a government military contractor. To get funding we would have to submit estimates for projects. Even if the projects weren't really happening, if you didn't submit for it, your budget would shrink for the next year. So, we pumped up the numbers.

Not all of us worked for prime contractors that did that ... and yes, also in aerospace no less.

 

[hemightbejeremy]

Sounds great. This is the first time a product has ever become cheaper the further it gets from initial production. Way to go Trump.

 

[ucflee]

Can’t even V/STOL ... total POS, wouldn’t even try to use to defeat adversaries*

 

[UCFBS]

Sounds great. This is the first time a product has ever become cheaper the further it gets from initial production. Way to go Trump.

You missed the detail. He's lowered the price than the ones Obama negotiated for those same lots.

 

[chemmie]

Sounds great. This is the first time a product has ever become cheaper the further it gets from initial production. Way to go Trump.

Time for the DoD to sign a new contract for a new aircraft, now. Just like they did with the F-22. The amount of money blown on the F-35 is ridiculous considering the F-22 had already gone through its own growing pains, and already had superior avionics and weaponry.

 

[UCFBS]

Time for the DoD to sign a new contract for a new aircraft, now. Just like they did with the F-22. The amount of money blown on the F-35 is ridiculous considering the F-22 had already gone through its own growing pains, and already had superior avionics and weaponry.

The latter is not true. Much of the cost with the F-35 was the helmet integrated sensory capabilities, which are being retrofitted to the F-22. It's why several countries buying the F-35 asked if they could buy the F-35 without it, and go after-market, especially when the R&D costs skyrocketed.

I do have to often point that out.

That said, other than the F-35B, I wish we would have just bought more F-22s, including a navalized version, and made an export version with reduced stealthiness. A lot of countries wanted it, especially given the F-22's increased range (like Australia and Japan wanted). But, alas ...