Poll: Do you still think Frost's recruiting looked about the same as GOL's?
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O'leary had some great recruiting and finding 2 and 3 stars and pushed them into 4 and 5 stars. I think he mailed in the last 2 classes and gave Brent Key the offense. Two critical mistakes that set ucf back. Works out because without GOL completely screwing up we would be stuck with Key.
It is too early to rate the class but RBs look great. Milton looks solid. Oline is playing better which is nearly the same that couldn't block last year. Love the modern stuff with unis, fireworks, names on jerseys, etc.
Not sure why we need to constantly revisit GOL?
It is too early to rate the class but RBs look great. Milton looks solid. Oline is playing better which is nearly the same that couldn't block last year. Love the modern stuff with unis, fireworks, names on jerseys, etc.
Not sure why we need to constantly revisit GOL?
We're 4 games into his first season and he has 1/2 a recruiting class on campus since he didn't get hired until recruiting was almost over. I'll like to waut a bit before declaring some kind of winner.
If he recruits 1/2 as well as he changes the culture of the program, we're in good shape.
If he recruits 1/2 as well as he changes the culture of the program, we're in good shape.
Milton, Hamilton, Killins, and Hill all seem like great finds already.
No way you can answer that question until Frost has had a full recruiting cycle.
It's completely different type of recruits for a different offense and defense. GOL wanted a Big 10 type squad based around big linemen including huge tight ends with 3 catches per season, large backs who could run up the middle 30 times per game. Shaquem would never be a GOL linebacker in a million years.
Ridiculous question. It's more about where our program is at, then who is coach. Go look at some school like Duke. They routinely get better recruits than us, including a couple of four star guys. It's because they are Duke and are in the ACC.
Plus, you have to have a full 4 years or so to see how kids are after going through the program. Will we produce good college players, pro players, or both? While the Buc game was delayed Bradshaw and crew had a lengthy discussion about the negatives of playing in spread offenses (for a lot of kids they play in that system through both high school and college) and how that translates to the next level. They talked about the lack of QBs being able to read defenses, how OL's don't make calls at the line, etc... The prime example they gave was Wentz vs Goff. They said out of the gate Wentz is wsy ahead because he played in a pro style offense where they huddled, he got under center, he read defenses and made changes based on what he saw, etc... you would expect this type of offense to actually produce more skill talent. On defense, no difference. It's just a matter of coaches coaching guys up. So far, I love what I've seen from our defense and on paper it looks like we have some great talent coming in.
Plus, you have to have a full 4 years or so to see how kids are after going through the program. Will we produce good college players, pro players, or both? While the Buc game was delayed Bradshaw and crew had a lengthy discussion about the negatives of playing in spread offenses (for a lot of kids they play in that system through both high school and college) and how that translates to the next level. They talked about the lack of QBs being able to read defenses, how OL's don't make calls at the line, etc... The prime example they gave was Wentz vs Goff. They said out of the gate Wentz is wsy ahead because he played in a pro style offense where they huddled, he got under center, he read defenses and made changes based on what he saw, etc... you would expect this type of offense to actually produce more skill talent. On defense, no difference. It's just a matter of coaches coaching guys up. So far, I love what I've seen from our defense and on paper it looks like we have some great talent coming in.
Why care about pros? Let's win in college.
There are plenty of skill players in the NFL from spread teams....and plenty of pro-style players that never make it (if you are trying to link to recruiting).
AL has the best talent in a pro system and they don't win every game and don't put every kid on the NFL.
So after just 4 games you're saying that the true freshman are better than every player of the last 10 years?
College football is all coaching, college basketball is all recruiting. And if you are a great football coach, recruits will want to play for you. If you are a great basketball recruiter, you only need to full-court press and fast break with waves of quality players off the bench.
I've noticed a few mentioned that and being anti-spread.
It's hard being an NFL QB regardless of system, plenty of busts that played in a pro-style offense. And there are NFL teams starting to copy and use spread principles anyway. Use the system that will utilize talent in your recruiting pool, win games, and entertain fans.
Just look at the RB position. McGowen and CJ are 4th & 5th String this season behind 2 true freshman on the depth chart
College coaches have been infusing the NFL with their systems, and after a little tinkering, they often are successful. On the other hand, these days most top college teams are putting up 70+ points on decent opponents which the NFL scores seem to be on the decline. But all that's so artificial. Just wait. The NFL and NCAA will adjust the rules to reduce college scoring and jack up pro scores. Same with baseball HRs vs pitching, NBA and college hoops. Anyone old enough to remember the really boring days in the NBA where a team over the limit resulted in "3 to make 2" free throws? Talk about watch paint dry.
There was a similar topic brought up on Fox Sports Radio (or ESPN Radio) the other day when a retired NFL Player noted the COACHING was more important than talent to winning in the NFL...and how almost the opposite was true in the NBA. (i.e. offensive/defensive coaches generally call in plays/strategy for every snap while the NBA is a free flowing game where talent generally wins out).
Raw talent in basketball (college or NBA) is generally more important first and foremost over coaching...where a coach Belichick, who almost never had stars on defense, WR or RB...comes up with winning game plans over and over and over again.
Saban has an advantage that in college, all HS kids are basically free agents and he can secure the best of the best...while Belichick can't in the NFL...and has to come up with schemes to help maximize the talent he has at all positions.
Those coaches at most G5 and even at many P5 programs don't have the best talent so coaching strategies/game plans are extremely important...as the opposition many times might "out talent" them.
The extreme case now is Kentucky's one-and-done system, where even backups have a decent chance of getting drafted in the NBA, if only because of their untapped potential, recent high-school record, and experience practicing with future NBA starters at Kentucky. By contrast, the Bama and Ohio State football stars on offense, especially QB, often don't need to do too much more than direct the offense.
In the college football world, I'll take Harbaugh and Urban Meyer over Nick Saban any day. Saban does and has always relied on recruiting vastly superior talent. Harbaugh and Meyer can walk into almost any situation and win almost instantly. Once they get almost equal talent, they'll beat the Saban's of the world. Harbaugh's problem is he's never been anywhere long enough to enjoy the fruits of good recruiting.
Excellent point. As someone who goes to practices, true success is coaches adjusting and utlizing their player strengths the best possible way.
I think Erk Chandler has done that on defense while the offense is doing the opposite of just using the guys who fit into the system.
I don't presume to speak for firmbizzle, but it seems like you're trying to put words into his mouth that simply are not there. If he wanted to say "the true freshman are better than every player of the last 10 years," he would have said exactly that. My take is that after taking a small sample of the average Frosty recruits and comparing them to a small sample of the average GOL recruits, the Frosty recruits are better. Just an opinion, feel absolutely free to disagree if you like, but please don't twist words to suit your opinion. I prefer speed over bulk.
I'm not sure how I am twisting words.Frost has 1 recruiting class. They are all Freshman. GOL had 10 years of recruiting classes. He stated Frosts recruits were better than GOL's. It's not twisting words to say "the true freshman (Frost's only recruits) are better than every player of the last 10 years (GOL's recruits). It's actually exactly what he said.
You added several caveats to your own take about sample sizes that make no sense to be honest. GOL doesn't have a small sample so it's impossible to compare small samples.
Dude, I'm not going to get into a pissing match with you. If reasonable inferences equate to "several caveats," to you there is no point in continuing this discussion. "Frost's recruits are already beating Gol's recruits," is a completely different statement than "so after four games you're saying that The true freshman are better than the last 10 years of recruits." I will point out the obvious to you, after four games the true freshman have contributed to more wins than all off GOL's recruits did during last years season.
LOL... he took a statement that said, "Milton is starting over Holman" to "Milton is better than Blake Bortles". He took, "Killins and Hamilton are starting over Wilson and McGowans" to "Killins and Hamilton are better than Storm, Murray, and Kevin Smith combined".
Not true. If that was the case he would have pushed Holman to the side immediately & he has slowed the offense up in certain occasions.
The Oregon Spread is his coaching identity so I don't want him to completely go away from that just bc a few pieces don't fit yet. He's an offensive coach
Maybe someone should have noted "GOL's recruits that are still on the team". That would have easily cleared things up.
Actually, no. A statement that said, "Frost's recruits are better than GOL's". At least get the actual referenced quote correct.
"Frost's recruits are already beating GOL's recruits."
How you could take that quote and make assumptions that it includes players that are not on the same field as them is beyond me.
this is going nowhere
All I will say is that 'Recruiting season' is actually worth following with Frost here, can't say the same for post David Kelly GOL.
All I will say is that 'Recruiting season' is actually worth following with Frost here, can't say the same for post David Kelly GOL.
And I will point out the obvious that some of GOL's recruits who contributed to an actual championship are still on this team.
All I'm saying is people are getting way ahead of themselves after a 2-2 start. William Stanbeck was a future great early in his career too. Why don't we pump the breaks just a little bit and not elevate some of these kids so high so fast. Because, God forbid, they don't turn out to be superstars, we'll be destroying them.
Er.............before you point out the speck in another's eye you might wanna pull the log out of your own eye, the actual referenced quote is "Frost's recruits are already beating GOL's recruits." We are all fans of the same team, let's embrace what we have in common versus squabble over the smallest of differences. Reasonable people can disagree on what is reasonable.
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I'm saying there should have been a transition to Frost's offensive system that was using the best players available and plays that best suited them. Charlie Taaffe was amazing at that. Erik Chandler appears to be designing the a system around the best players.
Apples and oranges. Charlie was kept on a somewhat tight leash by GOL. Granted that Taafe's experience and success let him get away with things previous O'Leary OC's couldn't. And one game when the offense wasn't working, he played the second half in 2-minute offense mode. It worked, of course, but could get a hurry-up installed under GOL. Also, Frost's system isn't something you turn on or off. If you try, you get 6 fumbles and multiple procedure penalties, right?
