So... do we still think that these coaches who make millions of dollars know more about football....

[Ucfmikes]

....than knowledgeable fans?

I’m reading some pretty impressive analysis by our fans

Stop putting these coaches on a pedestal

Maybe Heupel knows a lot about football, but he’s certainly too stubborn to see his flaws

That’s a bad thing right now

 

[Crazyhole]

....than knowledgeable fans?

I’m reading some pretty impressive analysis by our fans

Stop putting these coaches on a pedestal

Maybe Heupel knows a lot about football, but he’s certainly too stubborn to see his flaws

That’s a bad thing right now

Fans can sometimes be much more objective in their analysis than coaches who have a stake in the game. I'm sure that there is a level of ego that comes into play for them, being sure of themselves to the point of failure. I think that's why we are seeing more ADs bringing in analysts to assist the coaches, to give them different perspectives on things.

 

[Ucfmikes]

Fans can sometimes be much more objective in their analysis than coaches who have a stake in the game. I'm sure that there is a level of ego that comes into play for them, being sure of themselves to the point of failure. I think that's why we are seeing more ADs bringing in analysts to assist the coaches, to give them different perspectives on things.

Correct. It’s an ego thing. A stubbornness

Frost is just as stubborn, however I’m actually going to start to admit that he’s better for UCF than Heupel

 

[Crazyhole]

Correct. It’s an ego thing. A stubbornness

Frost is just as stubborn, however I’m actually going to start to admit that he’s better for UCF than Heupel

I think both guys are on a learning curve in their respective jobs, but Frost does seem to be adjusting moreso than Heupel. Supposedly we are going to see quite a bit of the I-formation in Lincoln today, which is pretty outside the box from what frost did in Orlando.

 

[Ucfmikes]

I think both guys are on a learning curve in their respective jobs, but Frost does seem to be adjusting moreso than Heupel. Supposedly we are going to see quite a bit of the I-formation in Lincoln today, which is pretty outside the box from what frost did in Orlando.

You can’t fit a round peg in a square hole

Heupel is trying to hit it with a hammer and Frost is trying to make it more round

 

[SLODAWG]

....than knowledgeable fans?

I’m reading some pretty impressive analysis by our fans

Stop putting these coaches on a pedestal

Maybe Heupel knows a lot about football, but he’s certainly too stubborn to see his flaws

That’s a bad thing right now

It's hard to know if you are serious but yeah, coaches know more about football than fans and it has nothing to do with how much they earn. Don't confuse yelling at your TV over a play or bunch of plays that didn't go your team's way with knowing more more than your team's head coach (or OC, DC, or special teams coach).

 

[JAFFX2]

Correct. It’s an ego thing. A stubbornness

Frost is just as stubborn, however I’m actually going to start to admit that he’s better for UCF than Heupel

Yes stubborn....his response in the post game PC blaming this on a D scheme that we didn't see on tape......the problem is the next time a good coordinator will figure out a different way to bring the pressure and disrupt the timing

Here is the difference.......when USF threw a D at us that we weren't ready for 2 years ago, CSF made adjustments........it would appear that CJH is too stubborn or not capable......

 

[Crazyhole]

You can’t fit a round peg in a square hole

Heupel is trying to hit it with a hammer and Frost is trying to make it more round

That's a pretty good analogy. It's going to be really interesting to see what Nebraska's offense looks like today, as there are a lot of indicators that we should be seeing what the evolution of his plan is. He seems to be going away from tempo a little bit and focusing more on having players who can play multiple positions to avoid having to sub guys in.

 

[KnightGeist]

Early days, but Heupel looks like a flat track bully. Beat up bad and standard teams and loses to teams that present a challenge. That is true of most coaches though. Not everyone can be a Bowden or Paterno. Jury is still out on Heupel though. Let's see how he responds to the adversity.

 

[Ucfmikes]

It's hard to know if you are serious but yeah, coaches know more about football than fans and it has nothing to do with how much they earn. Don't confuse yelling at your TV over a play or bunch of plays that didn't go your team's way with knowing more more than your team's head coach (or OC, DC, or special teams coach).

You are completely wrong. Sure they know more about the X’s and O’s and how to run a program, but he’s clueless

“over a play or bunch of plays that didn't go your team's way“

That’s your analysis?

Major fail

 

[Ucfmikes]

That's a pretty good analogy. It's going to be really interesting to see what Nebraska's offense looks like today, as there are a lot of indicators that we should be seeing what the evolution of his plan is. He seems to be going away from tempo a little bit and focusing more on having players who can play multiple positions to avoid having to sub guys in.

Wandale Robinson

 

[Ucfmikes]

Yes stubborn....his response in the post game PC blaming this on a D scheme that we didn't see on tape......the problem is the next time a good coordinator will figure out a different way to bring the pressure and disrupt the timing

Here is the difference.......when USF threw a D at us that we weren't ready for 2 years ago, CSF made adjustments........it would appear that CJH is too stubborn or not capable......

Yes. The same excuse twice now. He’s being severely outcoached by the opposition’s DC

 

[UCFGrad05]

This post has Dunning-Kruger effect all over it.

 

[Ucfmikes]

It's hard to know if you are serious but yeah, coaches know more about football than fans and it has nothing to do with how much they earn. Don't confuse yelling at your TV over a play or bunch of plays that didn't go your team's way with knowing more more than your team's head coach (or OC, DC, or special teams coach).

Coaches get fired all the time, because they suck.

Not saying it’s Heupel, but they have flaws too

 

[Ucfmikes]

This post has Dunning-Kruger effect all over it.

Coined in 1999 by then-Cornell psychologists David Dunning and Justin Kruger, the eponymous Dunning-Kruger Effect is a cognitive bias whereby people who are incompetent at something are unable to recognize their own incompetence. And not only do they fail to recognize their incompetence, they’re also likely to feel confident that they actually are competent.

 

[Crazyhole]

Wandale Robinson

Yep. And dedrick mills going back and forth from deep back to fullback, Washington playing wildcat, deepback, or receiver. The concept is pretty cool so I'm curious to see what it looks like as a finished productt

 

[SLODAWG]

You are completely wrong. Sure they know more about the X’s and O’s and how to run a program, but he’s clueless

“over a play or bunch of plays that didn't go your team's way“

That’s your analysis?

Major fail

My analysis is coaches know more about "X's, O's and how to run a program," which means by definition they know more than fans. If you actually belive you know more than any coach at a D1 level - most of whom are very well compensated - you'd have to be pretty dumb not to try your hand at the job. If you think your coach made or makes bad decisions, fine. If you think you know more about football, you should be sending schools your resume and selling them on your football IQ.

 

[Cubs79]

You are completely wrong. Sure they know more about the X’s and O’s and how to run a program, but he’s clueless

“over a play or bunch of plays that didn't go your team's way“

That’s your analysis?

Major fail

I didnt see the game last night, so cant comment on that specifically, but in general yes, coaches no far more than fans. Anyone can monday morning QB, but coaches know their players and what they are capable of far better, they have broken down film on the opposing team (which fans havent), etc etc. I mean, you got beat by 3 on a the road to a pretty good team, so it isnt as if Heupel's team had the doors blown off.

 

[Ucfmikes]

My analysis is coaches know more about "X's, O's and how to run a program," which means by definition they know more than fans. If you actually belive you know more than any coach at a D1 level - most of whom are very well compensated - you'd have to be pretty dumb not to try your hand at the job. If you think your coach made or makes bad decisions, fine. If you think you know more about football, you should be sending schools your resume and selling them on your football IQ.

Sometimes is about who you know to get your foot in the door as a coach

Heupel was a Heisman candidate football QB and a national champion

I chose a different career path that is much more complicated and doesn’t take any randomness or help to get hired

I assume your profession is the same

Coaching football isn’t “rocket science”

 

[Crazyhole]

I didnt see the game last night, so cant comment on that specifically, but in general yes, coaches no far more than fans. Anyone can monday morning QB, but coaches know their players and what they are capable of far better, they have broken down film on the opposing team (which fans havent), etc etc. I mean, you got beat by 3 on a the road to a pretty good team, so it isnt as if Heupel's team had the doors blown off.

I don't think people who are upset are seeing this as a one-off type of situation. It started last year, seeing the potential deficiencies in CJHs system which are starting to show up with losses.

 

[Poolside Knight]

Larry Coker ...

 

[Ucfmikes]

My analysis is coaches know more about "X's, O's and how to run a program," which means by definition they know more than fans. If you actually belive you know more than any coach at a D1 level - most of whom are very well compensated - you'd have to be pretty dumb not to try your hand at the job. If you think your coach made or makes bad decisions, fine. If you think you know more about football, you should be sending schools your resume and selling them on your football IQ.

Heupel is stubborn

He doesn’t see things or admit flaws

Since that required to be a successful football coach, he’s lacking in that skill.

If I was that way, I would be unemployed

If you want to say that fans know more about coaches in regards to that, then my post can be tailored to that

If you don’t think that he’s not stubborn in analyzing his offense as it relates to his personnel
and he knows more than fans about that aspect, then we have a fundamental disagreement

What’s the definition of insanity?

 

[Asphalt.Jungle]

i was always concerned about heupel because of his coaching history. he got fired by his alma mater (i'm sure oklahoma faced a lot of teams that designed special defenses just for them) and at mizzou where he only put up big numbers against bad teams. the hope was that like many other coaches he grew from failure and was ready for prime time now. to grow you need to recognize faults and i don't think he's capable of that. "oh that was a defense that wasn't on their tape."

when randy shannon sees an offense that's different from what he prepared his team for, we can clearly see adjustments.

 

[firm_bizzle]

Yes stubborn....his response in the post game PC blaming this on a D scheme that we didn't see on tape......the problem is the next time a good coordinator will figure out a different way to bring the pressure and disrupt the timing

Here is the difference.......when USF threw a D at us that we weren't ready for 2 years ago, CSF made adjustments........it would appear that CJH is too stubborn or not capable......

They used the scheme all game long. It was just a 3-3-5 which is easily countered by a running QB or a large sets.

 

[SLODAWG]

Sometimes is about who you know to get your foot in the door as a coach

Heupel was a Heisman candidate football QB and a national champion

I chose a different career path that is much more complicated and doesn’t take any randomness or help to get hired

I assume your profession is the same

Coaching football isn’t “rocket science”

Agree. You don't just get a football job. Coaching football isn't rocket science. But it is a skill....just like I have and I suspect you have. One that is learned and developed by doing it. Like my job and probably you're job. Not from reading blogs about it or watching it on TV.

 

[Cubs79]

I don't think people who are upset are seeing this as a one-off type of situation. It started last year, seeing the potential deficiencies in CJHs system which are starting to show up with losses.

That's fine, lots of coaches dont work out for various reasons. But I also think UCF fans have been spoiled and are just coming back to Earth a bit, and they dont like it. UCF has been great the last 2 years because they had a great QB. That is what separated them from other G5 schools and allowed them to be a top 10 team in the country. But you dont just replace a great QB. It is easy to go after the coach, and I am sure there is some legitimate criticism, but they also dont have an active QB on the roster anywhere near as good as Milton. So even if Heupel was doing a brilliant job, there is no way there wasnt going to be a serious downgrade at the most important position on the field.

 

[firm_bizzle]

I don't think people who are upset are seeing this as a one-off type of situation. It started last year, seeing the potential deficiencies in CJHs system which are starting to show up with losses.

Running AK up the middle 30 times a game was a window into the future.

 

[JAFFX2]

It was just a 3-3-5 which is easily countered by a running QB or a large sets.

Sure, which means CJH is not capable of making those adjustments or just plain ****ing too stubborn....he didn't counter with either......

 

[firm_bizzle]

That's fine, lots of coaches dont work out for various reasons. But I also think UCF fans have been spoiled and are just coming back to Earth a bit, and they dont like it. UCF has been great the last 2 years because they had a great QB. That is what separated them from other G5 schools and allowed them to be a top 10 team in the country. But you dont just replace a great QB. It is easy to go after the coach, and I am sure there is some legitimate criticism, but they also dont have an active QB on the roster anywhere near as good as Milton. So even if Heupel was going a brilliant job, there is no way there wasnt going to be a serious downgrade at the most important position on the field.

Going 9-3 or even 8-4 is fine but Heupel is flirting with a 5-7, 6-6 type season. A lot of the fundraising is based on UCF winning games and putting up points.

 

[Ucfmikes]

Not from reading blogs about it or watching it on TV.

I do think that it’s underestimated about how much fans know about football .

Some of these knowledgeable and analytical fans have watched and studied football for 20-40 years and many who have played as well

That’s why coaches like Mario Verduczo and even Lebby were in lower level positions.’
Still probably great coaches

They weren’t Oklahoma national Championship QBs

So there is a bit of “given the opportunity” in coaching

What are Heupel’s other credentials?

 

[Cubs79]

Going 9-3 or even 8-4 is fine but Heupel is flirting with a 5-7, 6-6 type season. A lot of the fundraising is based on UCF winning games and putting up points.

I am not really defending Heupel, it is certainly possible he isnt a very good HC. I also dont think you have much to work with at QB. Gabriel might end up being good, but he is a freshman who makes freshman mistakes. The pick 6 for instance, was just a poor read on his part. I dont really see how stuff like that is on the coach. Players have to make plays too.

 

[KnightVision82]

As your QBing goes so goes your team. The best QBs make their coaches look good at all levels of football.

Gabriel is a freshmen. No surprise here. He doesn't play that well on the road.

Also, he doesn't fit the standard RPO offensive because he can't run. It puts tremendous pressure on the middle of our OL which makes Heup's play calling look deficient.

We all knew that there would be a drop off after KZ. Also, we all know that coaches are slow to sit their QBs so Heup doesn't bad-mouth Gabriel. I hope that DJ Mack gets a good look at soon so that we don't waste the pain of losing some games this season. He deserves a shot at becoming the starter at this point. I believe he could have led us to more than 24 points scored yesterday. I'm concerned long term about the lack of mobility of Gabriel. Great kid, great arm and playing as expected for a freshman. Don't know about his ability to run a fully effective RPO offense which wins the big games.

 

[UCFGrad05]

As fun as it is to armchair quarterback, I have a hard time believing any of us would be doing a better job with actual play calling.

I agree with the sentiment here, but no way we’d know what we are doing game-time, every play.

They are disguising defenses, etc.

I agree we all know enough about the game. We are the small bunch posting and reading boards.

No way do I think I could out-coach anyone in D3 football, let alone D1.

 

[Cubs79]

I do think that it’s underestimated about how much fans know about football .

Some of these knowledgeable and analytical fans have watched and studied football for 20-40 years and many who have played as well

That’s why coaches like Mario Verduczo and even Lebby were in lower level positions.’
Still probably great coaches

They weren’t Oklahoma national Championship QBs

So there is a bit of “given the opportunity” in coaching

What are Heupel’s other credentials?

I dont think UCF hired Heupel because he was a QB at OU almost 20 years ago. Plenty of great players that dont end up as HC's, and plenty of average players that do end up as great coaches. But, if that is the case he was hired because of winning at Heisman at OU years ago, then maybe your AD needs some evaluating too.

 

[Poolside Knight]

i was always concerned about heupel because of his coaching history. he got fired by his alma mater (i'm sure oklahoma faced a lot of teams that designed special defenses just for them) and at mizzou where he only put up big numbers against bad teams. the hope was that like many other coaches he grew from failure and was ready for prime time now. to grow you need to recognize faults and i don't think he's capable of that. "oh that was a defense that wasn't on their tape."

when randy shannon sees an offense that's different from what he prepared his team for, we can clearly see adjustments.

Yep when you get fired from your Alma Mater...and when he got hired by UCF he didn’t have as many others vouch for him in the media releases compared to Frost

 

[Ucfmikes]

I dont think UCF hired Heupel because he was a QB at OU almost 20 years ago. Plenty of great players that dont end up as HC's, and plenty of average players that do end up as great coaches. But, if that is the case he was hired because of winning at Heisman at OU years ago, then maybe your AD needs some evaluating too.

What are his “true”’credentials otherwise?

What has he done to make him a great coach?

 

[Ucfmikes]

As fun as it is to armchair quarterback, I have a hard time believing any of us would be doing a better job with actual play calling.

I agree with the sentiment here, but no way we’d know what we are doing game-time, every play.

They are disguising defenses, etc.

I agree we all know enough about the game. We are the small bunch posting and reading boards.

No way do I think I could out-coach anyone in D3 football, let alone D1.

Not like tomorrow. Lol

 

[Cubs79]

What are his “true”’credentials otherwise?

What has he done to make him a great coach?

You are a G5 school, you werent going to get a "great" coach, that is just the reality. You were going to get an unproven coach that you hope ends up being great, or a retread from a P5 who had likely been fired. He was a coordinator for Sam Bradford, Drew Lock who he coached at Missouri was a good QB who was drafted pretty early. He does have some things on this resume. He also doesnt have a Sam Bradford or Drew Lock on his team (or Milton this year), and that is a big part of what is going on.

 

[Ucfmikes]

You are a G5 school, you werent going to get a "great" coach, that is just the reality. You were going to get an unproven coach that you hope ends up being great, or a retread from a P5 who had likely been fired. He was a coordinator for Sam Bradford, Drew Lock who he coached at Missouri was a good QB who was drafted pretty early. He does have some things on this resume. He also doesnt have a Sam Bradford or Drew Lock on his team (or Milton this year), and that is a big part of what is going on.

He also doesn’t have an SEC line to beat up on lesser teams

When Missouri played Auburn. His offense got destroyed

 

[Ucfmikes]

He does have some things on this resume

Haha. Wonderful