The 2 - for -1 scheduling problem...

[Mazuru]

I get that we want to do home-and-home deals and get treated like a heavy, but what am I missing that this would cost us a home game during the regular season?

So hypothetically, we sign the 2fer with UF... we play the game in Gainesville one year, at UCF a second year, in Gainesville a third year. Typically, we play one P5 on the road and one at home every season. Someone help me understand how a deal like this changes that setup so that we lose a home game. Conceptually, I’m not seeing how we lose a home game when we always play one P5 on the road anyway.

 

[KnightsofGroveland]

It eventually catches up with you. A one off with UF probably doesn't, but if you set a precedent that you will do 2-1's you lose some negotiating power as well. We have to have a minimum 6 home games to make sure we pay our bills. Back in our 2-1 years we had less than 6 home games in: 2003, 2004, and 2005.

We haven't done it since we built the stadium. No need to start now. I'd love to play UF, but if we traded them for FAU this year we still wouldn't be in the CFI, so why put ourselves at the disadvantage with a 2-1 if it does nothing for us?

 

[HammerB08]

Most have also assumed that UF will not come play the 1 at Spectrum and would demand it be at Camping World. A deal breaker.

 

[HoseEmDown]

It doesn't work because we make more money playing a home game then one on the road. Right now we are playing two P5 teams a year, one home and one away. Last year was Pitt home and supposed to be UNC away. Next year it's Stanford home and Pitt away. We are at FAU and have FAMU at home. Say we swap out the FAMU game to go to UF, that leaves us with just 5 home games,.season ticket holders won't be happy and we won't make more on the UF game. We also have to pay FAMU to cancel. To cancel FAU will probably cost us even more money to get out of.

We have 4 conference home games and the current P5 set up, 1 for 1, gives us a for sure 5th. We have been scheduling a FCS team for a guarantee 6th home and like this year where FAU came here we had 7, which makes us the most money. Giving up these home games to prove a point on the road at P5 schools doesn't help the bottom line and we aren't in a position to where we can forget about making the most money possible over getting P5 respect.

 

[Knight Strength]

Good points above. I'll add that over a period of years we'd end up with more away games scheduled than home games. Then the only way to balance it out is with FCS games.

 

[Mazuru]

Yeah but we don’t have to schedule for next year... we could start the series in three years...

I’m on the fence about it. In regards to UF, setting up a series and not playing at Spectrum is a deal breaker. On the other hand, a home-home-neutral site (has to be close to the state) should be ok to DW. We’d be fine in Tampa/Jax/Miami/Atlanta/New Orleans... anything farther would be giving UF the advantage.

I get that setting a presecdent is not favorable, but this year we played SC state and Austin Peay. I would have rather we dropped one of those and played a P5 school on the road.

I hate saying it, but they’re right. We need to beef up our schedule.

 

[KISA]

A good sold out UCF home game brings in 2 to 2.5 million in revenue Danny is not giving that up so we can be homecoming fodder to the SEC with no return trip back to UCF. We are no longer the sisters of the poor in a rent a stadium. UF basically wants 2 home games and 1 game at the Citrus Bowl dump where their fans can purchase 50% of the tickets = neutral site game. UCF said 1 game at UF, 1 game at UCF campus and 1 neutral site game or nothing we are a top 10 team not bowing down to SEC crap with all their arrogant jack wagon fans

 

[HoseEmDown]

Yeah but we don’t have to schedule for next year... we could start the series in three years...

I’m on the fence about it. In regards to UF, setting up a series and not playing at Spectrum is a deal breaker. On the other hand, a home-home-neutral site (has to be close to the state) should be ok to DW. We’d be fine in Tampa/Jax/Miami/Atlanta/New Orleans... anything farther would be giving UF the advantage.

I get that setting a presecdent is not favorable, but this year we played SC state and Austin Peay. I would have rather we dropped one of those and played a P5 school on the road.

I hate saying it, but they’re right. We need to beef up our schedule.

Why do we need to beef up our schedule but nobody else does? Florida played 0 OOC opponents with a winning record. They beat 3 teams with 7 or more wins and just 4 who were .500 or better. Yet we have to go on the road to play them to prove our worth, makes no sense.

Sure everyone would love to drop an FCS game for a name P5 game but we make a lot more money on the FCS game then we will playing a P5 on the road. If the P5 game was a nuetral site showcase game then we'd make the money to make it worthwhile but we aren't getting those offers just yet.

 

[Mazuru]

I’m not here to fight with fellow fans, but you’re drinking the kool-aid if you really think playing Memphis, Cincy, Temple, Houston, USF is like playing Auburn, LSU, GA, South Carolina, or FSU. Down year for a few of them, but our conference is not as strong, we need stronger OOC games. We need to beef up our schedule. And why not??? If we’re a cut above everyone else in the AAC, then we should.

And again, not saying an away and a neutral. That doesn’t make sense. My initial question was why can't we schedule a 2-4-1 with a team like UF and spread it out over a period of 7 years so we don’t lose a home game (which was answered, thank you). We shouldn’t be playing Austin Peay and SC State in the same year though. Change my mind!

 

[jt_knight]

We didn't play SC State and Austin Peay this year. We played SC State this year and Austin Peay last year.

 

[HoseEmDown]

I’m not here to fight with fellow fans, but you’re drinking the kool-aid if you really think playing Memphis, Cincy, Temple, Houston, USF is like playing Auburn, LSU, GA, South Carolina, or FSU. Down year for a few of them, but our conference is not as strong, we need stronger OOC games. We need to beef up our schedule. And why not??? If we’re a cut above everyone else in the AAC, then we should.

And again, not saying an away and a neutral. That doesn’t make sense. My initial question was why can't we schedule a 2-4-1 with a team like UF and spread it out over a period of 7 years so we don’t lose a home game (which was answered, thank you). We shouldn’t be playing Austin Peay and SC State in the same year though. Change my mind!

Is the past two years I believe everyone of those AAC teams you've mentioned have been ranked except Temple. The wins lose record of both of those groups are roughly the same over that time as well. Why are those teams and our conference have to be considered inferior? Our conference doesn't schedule 4 chump OOC games a year to pump up their win lose record either, we actually play teams of simusim stature or better.

I don't know why you keep bringing up the Austin Peay and SC State games? We didn't play two of them in the same season.

 

[Wings0fred]

I get that setting a presecdent is not favorable, but this year we played SC state and Austin Peay. I would have rather we dropped one of those and played a P5 school on the road....

I hate saying it, but they’re right. We need to beef up our schedule.

And again, not saying an away and a neutral. That doesn’t make sense. My initial question was why can't we schedule a 2-4-1 with a team like UF and spread it out over a period of 7 years so we don’t lose a home game (which was answered, thank you). We shouldn’t be playing Austin Peay and SC State in the same year though. Change my mind!

When did we play both Austin Peay and SC state this year? (Or last year???)

 

[Tiemanster]

We didn't play Austin Pray and SC State in the same year. We played Austin Peay last year to replace Maine after we had the games cancelled. This year we played FAU, Pitt, and SC State with a cancelled game against UNC. UF has two FCS games next year. I am sure you would have to go back many years to find that on a UCF schedule.

 

[Mikesi]

We probably need to beef up the schedule with 1, 1 and done or 1, 2 for 1. That’s it.

However the team needs to be a perennial powerhouse and they have to come to Spectrum

We can’t get that done, so a 2 for 1 is just a fantasy. They aren’t playiing at Spectrum

When was the last time that. UF went to an FCS or G5 stadium with a capacity of less than 50,000?

 

[HammerB08]

We probably need to beef up the schedule with 1, 1 and done or 1, 2 for 1. That’s it.

However the team needs to be a perennial powerhouse and they have to come to Spectrum

We can’t get that done so, a 2 for 1 is just a fantasy. They aren’t playing at Spectrum

When was the last time that. UF went to an FCS or G5 stadium with a capacity of less than 50,000?

I agree. I think in the right situation each of those can be acceptable. It has to be understood as the exception, not the rule for a special opportunity. I really think we need to be working the neutral site option in. Every other year I'd gladly trade the FCS home game for a fun neutral site kickoff game in Atlanta or Miami.

 

[Mikesi]

I agree. I think in the right situation each of those can be acceptable. It has to be understood as the exception, not the rule for a special opportunity. I really think we need to be working the neutral site option in. Every other year I'd gladly trade the FCS home game for a fun neutral site kickoff game in Atlanta or Miami.

Exactly. A kickoff game is usually at a stadium that holds a ton of fans. It’s usually a pricey ticket. Not sure how much teams make from those games, but there has to be a financial benefit if FSU and Alabama are doing it

 

[Gwoz]

The other variable that is working against UCF is time. It's in the best interest of the team to play UF, FSU, or Miami sooner than later. Those schools are currently at a lower point, with UF already swinging upwards. They have the resources to reload and be stronger.

UCF will go through another lull period, it just whether that period is 8-4, 6-6 or 4-8. It will eventually catch up to them, but until then you want to make sure you play as many high level teams as you can while you are up.

5 years from now what would be a better sell to recruits. We went to Gainesville and won, and they refused to come back to our stadium. Or we beat NC State at home.

 

[Knight Strength]

What does "beefing" up our schedule do for us?

It won't get us into the CFI and it won't get us more money. Don't let all those internet trolls convince you of this.

If we lose even one single game it will hurt us in recruiting and attendance.

It isn't broken. Don't try to fix it.

 

[aent]

My question is why can't UCF get a 2 for 1 with FAU, FIU, or the likes. Thats what the other top 10 teams do, its what we should do as well.

 

[Mikesi]

My question is why can't UCF get a 2 for 1 with FAU, FIU, or the likes. Thats what the other top 10 teams do, its what we should do as well.

All valid points.

Teams think we are a “fake” or “make believe” top 10 team

Why?

The schedule. It’s a catch-22. The argument goes around in circles

 

[mattropolis]

If we were getting 30 or 40 million from a TV contract it wouldn't matter if we gave a home gay away every now and then but we don't so we have to have the home games.

The argument that FSU and Miami cut their teeth playing a ton of away games is from a different time and era, and is just another excuse out there being thrown around. FSU was an independent until 1992. Miami was an independent until 1991. They played whoever they could get games with because they didn't have 8-9 games built-in because of being in a conference. Thus the reason they joined conferences so they weren't always scrambling to find games. There was no BCS. There was no Invitational. There was no massive TV money. There was no cartel.

For example, in 1989, FSU finished 10-2 and ranked #3. In the final AP poll they played a total of three teams (Clemson, Auburn, Miami, and Nebrasksa) that were ranked in the top 12 prior to their bowl game. They went 3-1 in those games, and also lost to Southern Miss (who wasn't ranked). They played Clemson, Miami, and Auburn all at home. That's not a "crazy" schedule. It's a tough schedule. It's not that different from our 2013 schedule.

So I looked at 1990 as well. FSU finished 10-2 and ranked #4. They played four teams that finished ranked (Miami, Florida, Penn State, and Auburn). They lost to Miami and Auburn on the road, beat Florida at home and beat Penn State in a bowl game. Again, a tough schedule but not "insane", and they lost 2 of the 3 "tough" games during the regular season. They were just seen as "quality losses" in the polls.

The AP poll wasn't even expanded to 25 teams until 1989. All this stuff was in its infancy back then.

As usual, our/my memory is one way but when you start to go back and dig into the numbers and facts they really aren't as crazy as they are made out to be.

 

[UCFan9906]

If we were getting 30 or 40 million from a TV contract it wouldn't matter if we gave a home gay away every now and then but we don't so we have to have the home games.

The argument that FSU and Miami cut their teeth playing a ton of away games is from a different time and era, and is just another excuse out there being thrown around. FSU was an independent until 1992. Miami was an independent until 1991. They played whoever they could get games with because they didn't have 8-9 games built-in because of being in a conference. Thus the reason they joined conferences so they weren't always scrambling to find games. There was no BCS. There was no Invitational. There was no massive TV money. There was no cartel.

For example, in 1989, FSU finished 10-2 and ranked #3. In the final AP poll they played a total of three teams (Clemson, Auburn and Miami) that were ranked in the top 12 prior to their bowl game. They went 2-1 in those games, and also lost to Southern Miss (who wasn't ranked). They played Clemson, Miami, and Auburn all at home. That's not a "crazy" schedule. It's not that different from our 2013 schedule.

The AP poll wasn't even expanded to 25 teams until 1989. All this stuff was in its infancy back then.

Yep, a lot of revisionist history being thrown around.

 

[Mazuru]

My bad... SC State only this year...do we drop a team of that caliber and add a P5 team?

Again, just playing Devil’s Advocate here. Figuring out what can we do schedule-wise to get more respect.

 

[Happy Hands]

If we were getting 30 or 40 million from a TV contract it wouldn't matter if we gave a home gay away every now and then

Pray the home gay away?

 

[Happy Hands]

I think a lot depends on what UF is willing to pay us to play there. If it is around 2 mill, then White should take a 2 for1. If it is around 500,000 then it would be dumb to do.

 

[Mazuru]

Do we just get rid of playing an FCS at all? What does that do for us? Replace that game with a bigger game, no easy games (on paper) the entire season. Feasible or no? Is there an advantage of playing a small school?

 

[jlwucf]

While I generally agree with the no 2 for 1 stance, I also think there are things you can do to even the series. First, you ensure the first game is at home so they can’t buy out if it. The you push the second away game out 3-4 years with a low buyout on our side so we can get out at anytime.

But what I would do is fully challenge UF. I would agree to a 2 for 1, but with the caveat that if we win the series we get an extra home game (with a huge buyout). Basically bet UF the more we win the more we play. They won’t agree to it of course and then ADDW can have a field day about how they are scared to play us. He could go on record stating the terms of the proposed contract and how UF was scared that we would easily earn the second home game so they declined.

 

[BlakNGoldAllDay]

Do we just get rid of playing an FCS at all? What does that do for us? Replace that game with a bigger game, no easy games (on paper) the entire season. Feasible or no? Is there an advantage of playing a small school?

I do agree with you. I hate the FCS games. Only time I would ever want one is game 1 when we have a new QB. This year we could have bought out our FCS opponent and replaced with a UF type team. Even on road or neutral site. If we had Pitt, UF and UNC as wins this year were believe we get in the Invitational.

 

[hendu1976fl]

Had we beaten Florida and two games at the end of the season had a different outcome, then we may have very well gotten into the CFI. A win over Florida would have greatly enhanced our strength of schedule. If we could have gotten them early in the year, they were a much more beatable football team, they're still beatable, but they are playing much better now. If Maryland completes the wide open 2 point conversion, Ohio State is not ahead of us, and if they beat Michigan like they did, neither would have been ahead of us going into conference championship weekend. If Texas had beaten OU it would have been down to us and Georgia. Maybe we get in, maybe we don't. You've already seen that Georgia can't beat Alabama, why have a rematch.

The reason SEC squads always get the nod is because of strength of schedule. They play a lot of good teams in conference play and usually play somebody at least decent out of conference. Fair or not, our conference isn't seen as being very strong. Who in our conference beat a P5 team with a winning record? We beat Pitt, but I don't think anybody else in the conference beat a decent P5 squad. Our conference runner-up got steamrolled by Mizzou. We need our conference mates to play better when they play good P5 teams. P6? Not until our conference wins some big games against big schools with winning records.

Next year we have Stanford at home, Pitt on the road, FAU/FIU type school and FAMU. Not ever going to get over the hump with a schedule like that. Nothing we can do about next season, the contracts on those games have been signed and the buyout would not make it feasible to switch. But looking 4 years out, why not have 2 P5 on the road, one P5 at home and a good MWC (Boise, SDSU, or even BYU- not a MWC)at home. Then you got your 8 conference games which every year should include one or two top 25 teams. It won't be the same as a Big 10 or SEC schedule, but it would arguably be better than a Pac 12 schedule.

The down side on a 2-1 deal somebody already pointed out. Leverage. If we give Florida 2-1 then schools like Looserville won't play us 1-1. However, I get that we need the home game to pay the bills, but how many bills could we pay if we made it into the CFI? What would that do for recruiting? What would beating Florida do for recruiting?

If the ultimate goal for the football program is to get into the CFI, we can't play it safe. We don't have the conference schedule to play it safe. Somewhere down the road we are going to have to take a few risks. All that aside, at this point I trust Danny White. He got us this far. Let's see where he takes us.

 

[surfer98]

Replace the FCS game with a team like ole Miss, Wake Forest, etc. (whoever is willing to schedule us) and I think we massively change the look of our schedule. I like the in state FIU/FAU but get rid of FCS games. We would have our conference games along with FAU, Pitt, Stamford, and add a school like wake Forest. That adds a whole different look with three power 6 games.

 

[Knight Strength]

Any UCF fan who thinks playing UF this season would have got us into the invitational hasn't been paying attention.

The goal posts move. Every week its a new argument to include contradictions and double standards.

If we had played UF we either would have lost or won. Both of which would have been used against us. Losing for the obvious reason. And winning, because if we beat UF they are said to be in a "down year".

We should stay the course.

 

[OtterKnight]

Both of which would have been used against us. Losing for the obvious reason. And winning, because if we beat UF they are said to be in a "down year".

If you're G5 the loss you serve a P5 is held against you, like how we beat "4-loss" Auburn last year.

 

[Mikesi]

Any UCF fan who thinks playing UF this season would have got us into the invitational hasn't been paying attention.

The goal posts move. Every week its a new argument to include contradictions and double standards.

If we had played UF we either would have lost or won. Both of which would have been used against us. Losing for the obvious reason. And winning, because if we beat UF they are said to be in a "down year".

We should stay the course.

I’m OK where we are, but if we aren’t going to give in to a 2 for 1 to play better P5 teams, then we have to stop this constant complaining year after year.

We have to take a risk and give in to increase our SOS

It’s not getting us anywhere to complain. We know what the CFI committee looks at.

Once again, you aren’t going to hear complaining from a lot of UCF fans going to a 3rd NY6 bowl game. Me included

 

[mattropolis]

Pray the home gay away?

Gotta love spell-checker. Sometimes the results can be quite entertaining.

 

[mattropolis]

I do agree with you. I hate the FCS games. Only time I would ever want one is game 1 when we have a new QB. This year we could have bought out our FCS opponent and replaced with a UF type team. Even on road or neutral site. If we had Pitt, UF and UNC as wins this year were believe we get in the Invitational.

Nope. They'd still find some other excuse to say we didn't do enough.

 

[SiberianKnightmare]

We’ve won 25 straight. We’re 3-2 against Top 10 teams since 2013. We’ve won 2 NY6 bowls and are going to another in the last 6 seasons.

We don’t need to prove shyte. These teams are ducking us, not waiting for us to prove ourselves.

 

[mattropolis]

Any UCF fan who thinks playing UF this season would have got us into the invitational hasn't been paying attention.

The goal posts move. Every week its a new argument to include contradictions and double standards.

If we had played UF we either would have lost or won. Both of which would have been used against us. Losing for the obvious reason. And winning, because if we beat UF they are said to be in a "down year".

We should stay the course.

Actually, the excuse would have been because they just weren't motivated. After all, we wouldn't be an SEC opponent.

 

[Knight Strength]

I’m OK where we are, but if we aren’t going to give in to a 2 for 1 to play better P5 teams, then we have to stop this constant complaining year after year.

We have to take a risk and give in to increase our SOS

It’s not getting us anywhere to complain. We know what the CFI committee looks at.

Once again, you aren’t going to hear complaining from a lot of UCF fans going to a 3rd NY6 bowl game. Me included

My recommendation would be to quit complaining about our leadership. I think we should get behind DW and his strategy 100%. If we keep questioning him publicly, one day we're going to end up with a retarded Jimbo Fisher situation and end up with Willy Taggart as our AD.

I think it's fair to keep complaining about the FBS system.

 

[Mikesi]

My recommendation would be to quit complaining about our leadership. I think we should get behind DW and his strategy 100%. If we keep questioning him publicly, one day we're going to end up with a retarded Jimbo Fisher situation and end up with Willy Taggart as our AD.

I think it's fair to keep complaining about the FBS system.

I’m all for whatever DW wants to do. He’s NEVER steered us wrong

The FBS system isn’t changing from 4 teams in the CFI anytime soon. By the time it does, I’m sure we will lose a game. So., we either stay where we aren, schedule better games by doing a 2 for 1 or one and done here and there, or get into a P5 conference.

3 options. That’s it