Trump debate requests
- Thread starter Crazyhole
- Start date
They don’t have the same opportunity? Or are you confusing equality of outcomes again.
They do not have the same opportunity because generational wealth is what determines your opportunity in America. With rare exceptions born poor die poor, born rich die rich. If you force an entire race into poverty then you cant just let it work itself out. You need to pull people out of poverty to undo the damage done to those people.
You’re confusing socio-economics with Race now.
pick one topic.
either blacks don’t have the same opportunities as whites OR rich people have better opportunities than poor people regardless of race.
Its either a socio economic issue or a race issue. Try again.
This is all he does. Make a wild assertion without any fact or backup, then pivot to another topic when he realizes what a dumb corner he stuck himself in.
Even his latest claim is not at all correct and almost unprovable considering the guy has an insanely warped view of what "middle class" is.
The 2nd half of this is just absolute bullcrap. The first half is worth discussing. There's some merit, but there is also a huge flaw in the opinion: if generational wealth insures and perpetuates itself then there would be no class mobility at all and wealth would be static. If your premise is true, nobody, regardless of race could ever be born rich and die poor or vice versa. When did this phenomenon begin? It certainly didn't exist in any measurable way before 1900, because if it did we would still be under the authority of the British kingship.
There are always exceptions but pretty much class mobility is limited in america. Very few people born middle class will become billionaires and very few billionaires will become middle class.
Its rare enough that you can almost ignore mobility all together except mobility within your class. Where maybe your parents made 100k and you make 350k but your kids might make 150k. Minor shifts that seem big but dont really equate to a class change.
The point is that its rare for people born into middle class to fall into poverty and its just as rare for people born into poverty to make it to middle class.
So when you force several generations of African Americans into poverty with racism, redlining, unequal pay, the lack of benefits for vets returning from WWII, worse education, segregation, etc etc, what you end up with isnt a race that's poor because they are naturally worse, but they are poor because we supress class mobility and we put them into poverty.
It will take generations to repair but the littlest things we can do now would help. As someone who hires, I am often left scratching my head at some resumes I get, I dont hire those people because their resumes are bad but who taught you how to write a resume? Typically thats a generationally passed down skill. We can jump start growth by investing in programs designed to teach some of these things that are learned through observation of generational success.
But its easier to just tell poor people to work hard so we'll probably just go with that even though its not the solution.
As with everything the answer is probably somewhere in the middle. You're not being honest if you don't acknowledge the wealth issue is tied to race in America. This should be clear. This is also not saying to go take peoples wealth and redistribute it so let's get that out of the way before you just dismiss me.
On the other hand, class mobility is obviously possible, more so in America than anywhere else right? And to FC's point it might not be from poverty to extreme wealth (save for sports and entertainment) but if we can figure out how to unify and promote even just a few basic things (no crime, family units, moderate education) we can definitely help get people at least to middle class and then go from there. From there just gotta keep chipping away generation after generation.
I do think we're going to continue to have problems if we don't acknowledge a special claim that acquires special attention. Now back to arguing over what that attention actually is in the form of. To me the answer is pretty simple though. If you make it socio-economic based everyone wins and will still disproportionately help black people.
On the other hand, class mobility is obviously possible, more so in America than anywhere else right? And to FC's point it might not be from poverty to extreme wealth (save for sports and entertainment) but if we can figure out how to unify and promote even just a few basic things (no crime, family units, moderate education) we can definitely help get people at least to middle class and then go from there. From there just gotta keep chipping away generation after generation.
I do think we're going to continue to have problems if we don't acknowledge a special claim that acquires special attention. Now back to arguing over what that attention actually is in the form of. To me the answer is pretty simple though. If you make it socio-economic based everyone wins and will still disproportionately help black people.
It is possible yes, but much easier in most European countries and Canada. According to this, America ranks 27th in economic mobility. https://www.visualcapitalist.com/ranked-the-social-mobility-of-82-countries/
And this makes perfect sense. Most countries ahead of the US have cheaper, or even free college. Even someone who goes to college here, gets a job with a decent salary, can take years just to pay off their debt, which hurts in accumulating wealth. And not to mention healthcare, which is a necessity, is so much more expensive here than in many other places.
It was a Primary debate, not one of the general election ones so you didn’t refute Cubs’ assertion.
Look I can do that too...
No, all the people that hate white people vote for liberal though. There must be a reason for that. If both sides were neutral to white people you would see racists evenly divided. Instead we have all the racists on one side. Some democrat policy sure seems to universally appeal to racists... wonder why that is, hmmmm what could it be.
Have to completely disagree with this.
“The point is that its rare for people born into middle class to fall into poverty and its just as rare for people born into poverty to make it to middle class.”
I was born of the poorest of poor families. We barely had a pot to piss in and on several occasions didnt even have a home to live in. Neither of my parents, both now in their late 60s, have $1 set aside for retirement. They both live solely off SS and part time jobs. Their parents were the exact same.
I make mid $100k annually because I was smart with my money. I educated myself and went into the military.
I know many officers in the military that have the same story as I. Some are doing way better than me because they were smarter with their money earlier.
For someone determined to brake the cycle, race and socioeconomic backgrounds have little to do with a persons ability to excel in life.
Moving from nothing to middle class isn’t difficult if you’re willing to make the right decisions. For me that was the military. It’s about will and desire.
Yeah, well let me explain your claim. People who hate white people are not white. That means they are a minority. Democrats tend to support policies that are friendly to minorities so it makes sense that they would get most of the minority vote. Regardless of that minorities opinion on white people.
Now you explain why all white supremacists vote republican but white people are split 50/50.
I suppose a person’s circles would determine their perspectives. On this because I disagree that it’s rare.
I see it in the military all the time. Still in and have been for 28yrs.
From my perspective, people don’t typically enter into the military when they come from well to do famlies. There are the exceptions though.
If a person decides to make the military a career, so long as they are smart with their money, as they move into the middle NCO+ ranks, do fairly well for themselves and their families.
Most troops, not from historically military families, come from very poor families and break their cycles because they were determined.
IMO, this is more the norm than the exception in the military anyway.
“explain why all white supremacists vote republican”
You don’t know that to be true and is mostly certainly an ignorant assumption. The people you speak of typically don’t even vote.
btw, this such a strawman it's hilarious.
Plenty of people that think black and hispanics are useless vote Democrat. They may not be "outward racists" however, they believe that black and hispanic people are incapable without the support from the government.
Also, look up the history of boston, MASS. Then overlay their voting history over the last 50+ years. I'm sure you'll see some correlation. Lastly, do a quick google search on the most segregated cities in the US, you'd be shocked to see Chicago being #4. its cuz the the whites don't wanna live near the blacks, yet those whites vote overwhelming democrat.
I'm not saying Democrats are more racist than Republicans or vice-verse. Just pointing out you are very incorrect in your theory that only republicans are racist.
That was never my theory dumb shit. But good bump and good waste of time making a point against an argument I wasn't making.
