What’s the feeling for next season

[Mikesi]

It’s too soon to judge Mack in my opinion

He was too inexperienced and the game plan didn’t help him vs LSU

He’s not MM yet with extending plays and throwing on the run. That takes experience, but he definitely has some upside of his own

He’s not Holman that’s for damn sure.

He’ll probably start the season slowly and improve over time.

 

[hendu1976fl]

Yes, and in that ECU game he looked awful. We were one fumble recovery away from possibly losing that game. He looked awful against USF. He looked awful in the first half of the Memphis game, which is why we had to stage a comeback.

Believe me, I want him to be fantastic. But I have not seen any reason to believe we can rely on him to win us football games.

Everything you are saying was said after year 1 of KZ. It is possible that with an entire offseason to improve, the kid could get better. I think he has a much stronger arm than Milton. But like Holman before him, needs to learn to put some touch on his passes. And stop fumbling the freakin' ball.

I think the offense will be just fine. The OL might be even better. Losing Wyatt and Tyler will hurt. But there are some good players waiting in the wings who might have more upside. On the defensive side of the ball, other than his bonehead play against LSU I was impressed with Charlton over the last 3 or 4 games. Which is what you would expect from a freshman. We desperately need somebody to step up at DT. LB's should be fine and I'm not overly concerned about the secondary.

 

[SwagCentral]

I waffle between thinking we’re going to completely suck and Mack fumbles eight times each game or we run the table again for a 200 game win streak. Being in the middle is no fun anymore.

0-12 and 25-0 ruined everything else.

 

[Poolside Knight]

Everything you are saying was said after year 1 of KZ. It is possible that with an entire offseason to improve, the kid could get better. I think he has a much stronger arm than Milton. But like Holman before him, needs to learn to put some touch on his passes. And stop fumbling the freakin' ball.

I think the offense will be just fine. The OL might be even better. Losing Wyatt and Tyler will hurt. But there are some good players waiting in the wings who might have more upside. On the defensive side of the ball, other than his bonehead play against LSU I was impressed with Charlton over the last 3 or 4 games. Which is what you would expect from a freshman. We desperately need somebody to step up at DT. LB's should be fine and I'm not overly concerned about the secondary.

you do realize that Mack is a Red shirt Freshman so this would be his 2nd full offseason to try to improve. The KZ comparison is very different, true freshman with no spring practice and starting on a transitioning 0-12 team.

 

[anon_ki59ERik4csguoSd]

He's also had KZ to mentor him, and he still looks in over his head nearly 90% of the time. Just switch him to TE, or RB.

 

[Wings0fred]

you do realize that Mack is a Red shirt Freshman so this would be his 2nd full offseason to try to improve. The KZ comparison is very different, true freshman with no spring practice and starting on a transitioning 0-12 team.

Definitely apples anq oranges. Other differences, KZ got more playing time as a freshman and Mack is on his second coaching staff in his time.

 

[muckdawg24]

Mack is going to be a different QB next season, book it. Some of you have already condemned him to bench status. The guy played 4 games, 4!

He's got the tools to get it done and yes he's a different player than MM, but that's who we have. Gabriel will push him and he loses the job then the better man won. Relax.

 

[Kn1ghTZ]

He's also had KZ to mentor him, and he still looks in over his head nearly 90% of the time. Just switch him to TE, or RB.

Holy overreaction.

We don't know the kind of development he had his first year. It looked like Vedral was getting backup snaps leaving Mack to run the scout team.

This will be his first real off-season competing as the starter with no coaching or scheme turnover and actual game film to work on.

 

[HammerB08]

Think it's clear that an area where Mack could quickly improve his game is ball security as a runner. I'd be hammering that all offseason. Clean that up and he's already a tick better. QB is an area we should see improvement in over what we had to close out the season, unless you think Mack is going to regress or the competition brought in from a transfer will not be any good. Really need to see what's done on the transfer front before analyzing it more, I guess.

 

[Knight Strength]

You mean that one and only time he looked good?

Watch that LSU game again and tell me we don't need a QB like KZ that can scramble and pass.

You think the reason we lost the Fiesta is Mack wasn’t throwing on the run more? There’s several more pertinent reasons we lost. How about the WRs catch easy touchdowns? How about we not abandon McCrae when’s he’s averaging 8 ypc?

All of the above

you do realize that Mack is a Red shirt Freshman so this would be his 2nd full offseason to try to improve. The KZ comparison is very different, true freshman with no spring practice and starting on a transitioning 0-12 team.

Practice reps are not as fast or physical as game reps and there's far less pressure.

 

[JAFFX2]

Think it's clear that an area where Mack could quickly improve his game is ball security as a runner. I'd be hammering that all offseason. Clean that up and he's already a tick better. QB is an area we should see improvement in over what we had to close out the season, unless you think Mack is going to regress or the competition brought in from a transfer will not be any good. Really need to see what's done on the transfer front before analyzing it more, I guess.

I thought for sure ball security would have been addressed prior to the Fiesta bowl......

 

[jestert79]

Think it's clear that an area where Mack could quickly improve his game is ball security as a runner. I'd be hammering that all offseason. Clean that up and he's already a tick better. QB is an area we should see improvement in over what we had to close out the season, unless you think Mack is going to regress or the competition brought in from a transfer will not be any good. Really need to see what's done on the transfer front before analyzing it more, I guess.

Yeah - I feel like if he gets rid of the butterfingers he could be a potent runner due to his size.

I remember one run in particular where he was dragging multiple LSU defenders several yards.

 

[SiberianKnightmare]

The Mack stuff is stupid. Seriously, overly critical, entitled fan non-sense. Go look at what MM looked like in his first 3 games. Geez, the guy puts up 6 touchdowns and 8 million passing yards in a conference championship game in his 2nd start, blows out ECU and our rival(on the road after watching his teammate go down to a horrific injury) and then has a bad game in a NY6 bowl against LSU. And some of you are so upset by all of that, that you are writing him off already.

I suggest some of you go back and read the Milton threads after the Arkansas St game. And that was Arkansas St in the Cure Bowl after 3/4 of a season of starting, not LSU after playing in 3 games throughout the whole year.

 

[Poolside Knight]

The Mack stuff is stupid. Seriously, overly critical, entitled fan non-sense. Go look at what MM looked like in his first 3 games. Geez, the guy puts up 6 touchdowns and 8 million passing yards in a conference championship game in his 2nd start, blows out ECU and our rival(on the road after watching his teammate go down to a horrific injury) and then has a bad game in a NY6 bowl against LSU. And some of you are so upset by all of that, that you are writing him off already.

I suggest some of you go back and read the Milton threads after the Arkansas St game. And that was Arkansas St in the Cure Bowl after 3/4 of a season of starting, not LSU after playing in 3 games throughout the whole year.

I was a consistent Milton supporter and in the minority on this board during his first offseason. There are certain signs that I look for and I do not see them with Mack regardless of the limited starts. I’d rather go grad transfer as the starter then see what Gabriel has later.

Even in Milton’s turnover filled 1st start against Boston College we heard opposing players telling the media he is going to be very good.

 

[vroomba]

9-3 with losses to Pitt, Cincy, and Houston. I also think Stanford could be a loss but them traveling across the country will be tough for them, especially if its really hot out here.

 

[hemightbejeremy]

I was a consistent Milton supporter and in the minority on this board during his first offseason. There are certain signs that I look for and I do not see them with Mack regardless of the limited starts. I’d rather go grad transfer as the starter then see what Gabriel has later.

Even in Milton’s turnover filled 1st start against Boston College we heard opposing players telling the media he is going to be very good.

Milton never faced Boston college so maybe your memory is faulty. Milton has essentially the same QBR in his first season as Mack had this year. And he didn’t play in a conference championship game and NY6 bowl against a top 10 team in his first 2 meaningful starts of his career.

 

[hemightbejeremy]

I was a consistent Milton supporter and in the minority on this board during his first offseason. There are certain signs that I look for and I do not see them with Mack regardless of the limited starts. I’d rather go grad transfer as the starter then see what Gabriel has later.

Even in Milton’s turnover filled 1st start against Boston College we heard opposing players telling the media he is going to be very good.

Just curious. What are the signs that you look for? Or is that inside info?

 

[Poolside Knight]

Milton never faced Boston college so maybe your memory is faulty. .

my mistake. meant to say the Maryland game where he had 5 turnovers.

 

[hemightbejeremy]

my mistake. meant to say the Maryland game where he had 5 turnovers.

Roger. That’s what I figured you meant

 

[Mikesi]

9-3 with losses to Pitt, Cincy, and Houston. I also think Stanford could be a loss but them traveling across the country will be tough for them, especially if its really hot out here.

I’m thinking Cincinnati, Pittsburgh and a random game. Something like at Tulane

 

[hemightbejeremy]

UCF was 8 points worse than the #6 team while making many mistakes and bonehead penalties and now you guys are penciling in losses to Pitt and Cincinnati? Funny stuff.

 

[Square Knight]

UCF goes 12-1 next year and is the G5 rep in the NY6 Cotton Bowl.

The same people hating on Mac are probably the same ones who were hating on Mckenzie Milton after the 2016 Cure Bowl. This is college football. Players often improve...sometimes significantly from one year to the next.

Some of the reasons Mack didn't look great in the Fiesta Bowl have nothing to do with his ability. Numerous times there were quick slant routes that would have been wide open. But Heuple really likes to focus on downfield passing...sometimes to the detriment of the short game.

 

[Poolside Knight]

roster can also look very different after the spring game and by August. I hope they are not any surprise transfer outs

 

[Mikesi]

Some of the reasons Mack didn't look great in the Fiesta Bowl have nothing to do with his ability. Numerous times there were quick slant routes that would have been wide open. But Heuple really likes to focus on downfield passing...sometimes to the detriment of the short game.

This

 

[SiberianKnightmare]

Yes, and in that ECU game he looked awful.

Is he 2017 or 2018 KZ? Of course not.

KZ first start: 58% completion on 36 throws. 2 TD's, 1 INT. 23.2 QBR. 19 rushes for 7 yards. 1 TD.
Mack first start: 60% completion on 20 throws. 1 TD, 0 INT. 46.4 QBR. 22 rushes for 120 yards. 1 TD.

Yeah, the differences there are ENORMOUS.

Gee, I wonder why someone would have no faith in Mack's ability to be the QB going forward, yet not with KZ? Hmm, strange. I wonder if it's just because we had come off a winless season, so 6-7 looked promising no matter what vs coming off 25-0 and losing our first game in 700+ days and we're just being entitled brats acting like the lowest common denominator of fans because we demand only perfection and immediate dominance?

 

[Poolside Knight]

This

even with Milton I thought we tried to force verticals too much(which is why his completion percentage went down). Look at a play like this vs Cinci and KZ's short pass to Killins for a TD. Is Mack capable of seeing this before the pocket collapses(which might have happened if KZ holds onto it a little longer or didn't shift up in the pocket)? or next year? that's the big question

 

[Poolside Knight]

Is he 2017 or 2018 KZ? Of course not.

KZ first start: 58% completion on 36 throws. 2 TD's, 1 INT. 23.2 QBR. 19 rushes for 7 yards. 1 TD.
Mack first start: 60% completion on 20 throws. 1 TD, 0 INT. 46.4 QBR. 22 rushes for 120 yards. 1 TD.

Yeah, the differences there are ENORMOUS.

Gee, I wonder why someone would have no faith in Mack's ability to be the QB going forward, yet not with KZ? Hmm, strange. I wonder if it's just because we had come off a winless season, so 6-7 looked promising no matter what vs coming off 25-0 and losing our first game in 700+ days and we're just being entitled brats acting like the lowest common denominator of fans because we demand only perfection and immediate dominance?

You mean talent surrounding a player doesn't matter? Thank you for making the case that the Milton-Mack Freshman analogies are not accurate.

What were the YPC of the 2016 RBs compared to 2018?(highest rush total in a game for a RB in the 2016 season was 87 yards, in 2018 it was 206 yards) The 2016 UCF OLine got pushed around by a Sun Belt team and most of the American Conference. The 2018 O Line was the best or at worst Top 2 unit in the American.

A QB's best friend is a good Oline and running game behind him. So yes there is context to a QB's stats given his surrounding situation on offense. There is a difference when a QB still struggles when he has a run game to balance things out vs an opposing defense. How about stop resorting to name calling just bc we don't all agree?. We root for the same team.

 

[anon_ki59ERik4csguoSd]

Is he 2017 or 2018 KZ? Of course not.

KZ first start: 58% completion on 36 throws. 2 TD's, 1 INT. 23.2 QBR. 19 rushes for 7 yards. 1 TD.
Mack first start: 60% completion on 20 throws. 1 TD, 0 INT. 46.4 QBR. 22 rushes for 120 yards. 1 TD.

Yeah, the differences there are ENORMOUS.

Gee, I wonder why someone would have no faith in Mack's ability to be the QB going forward, yet not with KZ? Hmm, strange. I wonder if it's just because we had come off a winless season, so 6-7 looked promising no matter what vs coming off 25-0 and losing our first game in 700+ days and we're just being entitled brats acting like the lowest common denominator of fans because we demand only perfection and immediate dominance?

You're looking at the percentage and forgetting what actually counts. KZ threw for 260 yards against Maryland. Mack threw for 69..... against ECU.

That IS an ENORMOUS difference.

It was always evident, at least to me, that KZ had mad skillz, intelligence, vison, touch, elusiveness, and tons of potential. I just don't see the same in Mack, and one good 2nd half performance against Memphis hasn't changed my mind.

Call it entitled all you want, but just like USF fans sitting home when their team is 7-0, I know mediocrity when I see it.

 

[hemightbejeremy]

I was a consistent Milton supporter and in the minority on this board during his first offseason. There are certain signs that I look for and I do not see them with Mack regardless of the limited starts. I’d rather go grad transfer as the starter then see what Gabriel has later.

Even in Milton’s turnover filled 1st start against Boston College we heard opposing players telling the media he is going to be very good.

Here are your comments from the Cure bowl game thread regarding the QB situation at the time.

“Recievers have no chance for YAC bc of Milton’s inaccuracy”

“If Milton looks this bad after bowl prep Frost may need to looks for a grad transfer somewhere along w the recruited QBs”

“Put in Payton!”

“You are really naive if you think guys with the arm talent of Stidham or Kyle Allen would even care or be threatened by Milton & you have no idea what Frost is saying privately to every QB he reaches out to.”

No mention of seeing the signs of a good QB in Milton. Maybe those are hidden in some other thread.

 

[Poolside Knight]

Here are your comments from the Cure bowl game thread regarding the QB situation at the time.

“Recievers have no chance for YAC bc of Milton’s inaccuracy”

“If Milton looks this bad after bowl prep Frost may need to looks for a grad transfer somewhere along w the recruited QBs”

“Put in Payton!”

“You are really naive if you think guys with the arm talent of Stidham or Kyle Allen would even care or be threatened by Milton & you have no idea what Frost is saying privately to every QB he reaches out to.”

No mention of seeing the signs of a good QB.

I've posted a lot of stupid s___ like everyone else in game threads and have a sense of humor when stuff is going south(Payton comment)


I defended Milton in the offseason as the being the QB, especially over Dinovo

I think posters get too upset when others don't agree. And I am not rooting for failure to 'be proven right' on a message board. As of right now I don't think Mack is the QB to lead the Program back to a New Years Day Bowl.

 

[hemightbejeremy]

I've posted a lot of stupid s___ like everyone else in game threads and have a sense of humor when stuff is going south(Payton comment)


I defended Milton in the offseason as the being the QB, especially over Dinovo

I think posters get too upset when other don't agree. And I am not rooting for failure to 'be proven right' on a message board. As of right now I don't think Mack is the QB to lead the Program back to a New Years Day Bowl.

But Mack did lead us to a NY6 bowl.

 

[Poolside Knight]

1 good half in an emotionally charged home game when KZ was in a hospital all week. 12-13 games is a different deal. We'll see if/who the Grad Transfer is and how Spring Practice goes

 

[beelit47]

Im going to make a bold statement about Mack: He will be better than Blake Barnett. That is all.

 

[anon_ki59ERik4csguoSd]

Im going to make a bold statement about Mack: He will be better than Blake Barnett. That is all.

My grandmother is better than Blake Barnett.

 

[anon_ki59ERik4csguoSd]

One moment that really rubbed me the wrong way was during the Championship game, Mack pushed aside one of the players coming to celebrate with him after a TD, so that he could do his choreographed celebration with another player.

That right there told me all I need to know. That's not a team leader.

 

[hemightbejeremy]

One moment that really rubbed me the wrong way was during the Championship game, Mack pushed aside one of the players coming to celebrate with him after a TD, so that he could do his choreographed celebration with another player.

That right there told me all I need to know. That's not a team leader.

Process him*

 

[Knight_Classes_begin_7pm]

It seems y’all have quite a bit of seniors leaving, and no QB. I’ll be in attendance for the FAU game hoot hoot.

I'd say we'll be bowling again DJ Mack will get better. Defense.......now there's the question mark

 

[Mikesi]

Here are your comments from the Cure bowl game thread regarding the QB situation at the time.

“Recievers have no chance for YAC bc of Milton’s inaccuracy”

“If Milton looks this bad after bowl prep Frost may need to looks for a grad transfer somewhere along w the recruited QBs”

“Put in Payton!”

“You are really naive if you think guys with the arm talent of Stidham or Kyle Allen would even care or be threatened by Milton & you have no idea what Frost is saying privately to every QB he reaches out to.”

No mention of seeing the signs of a good QB in Milton. Maybe those are hidden in some other thread.

Pulling up past threads with your fellow Knight diehard fans/posters is a low blow. That’s a NGEbraska troll special. Just saying.

I agreed with all of those comments at that time.

The QB play that day was hideous and we were doing absolutely nothing. It was beyond embarrassing and MM HAD to sit.

That said, i think evaluations of a player is dynamic and we all gave him a renewed chance and new life in the in 2017 after we saw some things showing his dedication in the offseason and the way he threw the ball in the Spring Game.

I’ll give Mack all the chances he needs from a fan standpoint, but I just don’t see the same characteristics in him as MM, just different

It’s probably not a coincidence that MM was top 10 in the Heisman twice. I don’t think that he was just a great player because of the system he was in and the talent around him

Therefore, I’m not expecting Mack to be Milton, just good enough to run the offense effectively and make plays to win games.

If he can’t by mid-season, then he probably won’t be able to

 

[firm_bizzle]

9-3 with losses to Pitt, Cincy, and Houston. I also think Stanford could be a loss but them traveling across the country will be tough for them, especially if its really hot out here.

Mods please ban.

 

[mattropolis]

even with Milton I thought we tried to force verticals too much(which is why his completion percentage went down). Look at a play like this vs Cinci and KZ's short pass to Killins for a TD. Is Mack capable of seeing this before the pocket collapses(which might have happened if KZ holds onto it a little longer or didn't shift up in the pocket)? or next year? that's the big question

View embedded media

The command of the offense on that play is high. He moved Killins right before the snap (maybe the staff told him to do that when they looked to the sideline or maybe he just moved him?), then stepped up in the pocket and took the mismatch with Killins. The #1 through #3 bad habits with new, young QBs, in my opinion, are: When pressure comes they just keep going backwards, bad footwork resulting in throws sailing, and the game just being too fast for them. In year 1, Milton exceled at the first two but to his credit as that season went on you could see how much of the offense he was grasping. The whole team was just gassed by like the 10th game, though. I just didn't know how he was going to fix his throwing motion and accuracy but he certainly put in the time to do it because right out of the gate in 2017 he looked like a 3rd year starter....not a second year starter (the OL in front of him also drastically improved).