When was our last traditional / modern war?

[ucflee]

our massive military expansion has guaranteed conflict, not deterred it

And here is the flaw in your thinking. conflict is guaranteed no matter what. Why was there such a massive expansion of our economy post WWII? Who shouldered the burden while those nations devastated by WWII recovered these past 50-70 years? Do we abandon this position? At what cost?

 

[ucflee]

We hire murders.

And there it is. Your complete lack of understanding and respect for an all volunteer force, their training, sacrifice, and all of the things that we as a nation ask them to do.

Maybe one day your pseudo-intellectual dream where you "don't want anyone to die" in your utopian world where conflict will never happen because of your dozens of better solutions can be realized on earth. Until then, you will have to live with the fact that "murderers", as you call them, are a huge reason that you are able to enjoy such a lavish lifestyle.

 

[UCFhonors]

this was not the premise of your original post. you went on about your self proclaimed expertise on military history and strategy. then you declared that foreign policy had no place in the discussion. the fact is that you have a limited understanding of warfare and military operations despite your cursory reading of Sun Tzu, History Channel documentaries, and your challenge coin. talk about conjecture.

As far as "all I have said so far" as you put it are the facts in the simplest terms based on reality not the "if only" world that you wished we lived in. You somehow decided that I am a supporter of unchecked military spending.

At least you were able to make the connection b/w policy and funding the military in this post even though it is laced with conjecture like the existence of a strong US military has caused more wars.

At the end of the day, we have a military that is (under) funded to do what it is asked of it. I appreciate that you have come around to accept that if you want to reduce funding that you will have to ask for and expect less. good for you.

You still haven't made a point.
You haven't used a number.
You haven't take a stance.

Do not have an opinion of your own?

 

[ucflee]

You still haven't made a point.
You haven't used a number.
You haven't take a stance.

Do not have an opinion of your own?

I have, and it still stands, your OP is sophomoric, inflammatory, and demonstrated that you lack a basic understanding of the topic.

0, there is a number for you, it is the number of f@cks I give about your misinformed position as highlighted in your original post, reinforced ad nauseam (remember you suggested that policy had no place in this discussion), and especially, your opinion of our service members.

My stance is quite clear, ask the military to do all of the things you want (you should really look into what is really asked of them) but don't bitch about the bill and blame the military for it.

F@ck you for suggesting that I am not allowed to have an opinion as you pontificate about a world that doesn't exist. While mildly entertaining, I will not continue in a thread with someone who would suggest that our service members are murderers. Especially the Marines. This despicable opinion is yours and you are free to own it all you want, but your hypocrisy of telling me not to have an opinion of my own? I invite you to move on.

Edit: or were you suggesting that I don't have an opinion of my own? Again, words matter.

Either way, my opinion is my original point and my stance, feel free to read them again, it is quite clear. Further, I have formed a new opinion of you and your motivation based on your stance on our service members. That should also be obvious to a distinguished undergraduate student such as yourself.

 

[fabknight]

It's not ironic that countries who spend very little on their military have virtually no military conflicts. Now I get you can say that is bc we are policing the world. But even before the US became a super power, military conflicts didn't happen with counties who took a defensive stance.

Did you think that maybe, just maybe, these countries that don't spend much on their military align themselves with bigger more powerful countries for a reason?

 

[1ofTheseKnights]

 

[UCFhonors]

I have, and it still stands, your OP is sophomoric, inflammatory, and demonstrated that you lack a basic understanding of the topic.

0, there is a number for you, it is the number of f@cks I give about your misinformed position as highlighted in your original post, reinforced ad nauseam (remember you suggested that policy had no place in this discussion), and especially, your opinion of our service members.

My stance is quite clear, ask the military to do all of the things you want (you should really look into what is really asked of them) but don't bitch about the bill and blame the military for it.

F@ck you for suggesting that I am not allowed to have an opinion as you pontificate about a world that doesn't exist. While mildly entertaining, I will not continue in a thread with someone who would suggest that our service members are murderers. Especially the Marines. This despicable opinion is yours and you are free to own it all you want, but your hypocrisy of telling me not to have an opinion of my own? I invite you to move on.

Edit: or were you suggesting that I don't have an opinion of my own? Again, words matter.

Either way, my opinion is my original point and my stance, feel free to read them again, it is quite clear. Further, I have formed a new opinion of you and your motivation based on your stance on our service members. That should also be obvious to a distinguished undergraduate student such as yourself.

I mis-framed the hiring murders comment. The Marine Sniper said that and I made it sound like that was from me. I take it back.

 

[UCFhonors]

Did you think that maybe, just maybe, these countries that don't spend much on their military align themselves with bigger more powerful countries for a reason?

Great point. Yeah, I agree that happens. I can't remember the Treaty, but there is one that we have with like 18 traditional powers which says each country will spend at least 3% of GDP on the military. Like 15 of the 18 countries don't. Obviously there is not a more powerful country that we can hide behind. That treaty may have made sense at the time but now it just allows people a free ride on our dime.

 

[UCFhonors]

Coke, I bet you're like me in that I like to toy with people who are so indoctrinated that they can't even think of an alternative. Do you have a go to question? For example, if I'm talking finance or economics with someone, I ask could you imagine if we didn't have a central bank? I mean what would that look like? They say something stupid. Then you hit them. Do you like monopolies? They of course say no. Then I ask, is there a bigger monopoly than the Federal Reserve? Game. Set. And Match. Lol.

 

[UCFhonors]

@ucflee I'm trying to understand your stance. What I gather is that we have to spend what we do just to keep up with what is asked of the military. And we underfund things. Is that right?

If so, just flip that. We can't afford to everything or even half the things that is asked of military. It's not a chicken and egg thing. We can both agrees that policies lead to budgets. Our policies are F@cked beginning with the Big Stick. It's like hiring someone to do an impossible job. We can agree on that. I don't blame the soldiers or officers. I have a problem with voters and politicians who don't live in the economic realities of budgets and the socio-political realities of the world. We create our own enemies with terrible policies. We are the cause of most of our foreign problems.

 

[fabknight]

Honors, I know that you consider defense spending a waste but much of the technological innovation that has been developed that impact us today was all made possible by DoD spending on research for weaponry. There has got to be a way to quantify that.

 

[1ofTheseKnights]

I know I don't consider defense spending a waste - I just HATE the neocon shit about "gotta tighten our waistlines on our budget... Except military cos without that there's nothing else FREEDOM AINT FREE 9/11..." & other scare tactics but luckily I'm in the 1% who think like this so yay war machines get those Muzzies!!!!!!!!

 

[UCFhonors]

Honors, I know that you consider defense spending a waste but much of the technological innovation that has been developed that impact us today was all made possible by DoD spending on research for weaponry. There has got to be a way to quantify that.

Ha! No. Absolutely no.


It's amazing that every high school graduation speech begins with, you can do it anything you could ever dream. Then slowly people become indoctrinated in thinking that it's only the government that makes things possible. Take a big step back.

Was there some government committee or czar who decided that Apple was going to be called Apple? Or that we're gonna call a mammal a mammal? Was it some senate that figured out the perfect ratio in architecture? Was pythagorean theorem sponsored by some government Appropriations Committee? Did Art need to be sponsored by a government before people thought artistically? Which government created the scientific method? Which judicial branch approved the Wright brothers to fly?

If there is one sentence that I can say to help everyone understand the world, it would be this, only voluntary actions of human beings has ever created anything. It was voluntary interaction of human beings that created science, language, arts, architecture, the scientific method, physics, math calculus, economics, philosophy, farming, education ect and every single thing you've ever bought. No government ever invented any of those things. No election made anyone magically gifted to make the world a better place. The single thing, the only thing that has ever made anything possible and has created anything is voluntary interaction of human beings. We can call that Liberty or Freedom. Liberty is a thing that invents millions upon millions of products and services that make your life better each and every year. The only thing that a government can do is tax action (now existence with ObamaCare) and regulate your actions by a threat of deadly force.

You cannot name one government invention to my billion of free enterprise inventions. A billion is so incomprehensible to the human mind that I had a history teacher dare anyone to write one to 1 million on a piece of paper for hundred dollars. Someone was actually stupid enough to write into the hundreds of thousands. It takes you longer to write 1 2 3 4... 10,001 10,002 10,003 than it takes you to make that much money. That's how astronomically large the world economy is. And the only thing he has ever created it is liberty. Governments, all governments are a detriment to Liberty.