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Will the US ever go completely to the metric system?

brahmanknight

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Sep 5, 2007
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We've all heard it since we were kids, that the US would, someday, get rid of the Imperial or US Customary System all together, and go all metric for everything.

It still hasn't happened. I at least have had to learn it at work, because while the weight is listed in pounds on everything, the weight in kilograms is in bold and in larger font, so you learn it real fast.
 
No. I work with some companies in Canada and they send us drawings with metric dimensions. You should hear some of the plans reviewers at building departments bitch and whine, those are the nice ones though most of them just reject the plans if I submit the "non-Americanized" plans.
 
Or we could be like the UK and mix them both together and completely confuse the eff out of everyone who tries to do work there.
 
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I go crazy dealing with international people who measure everything in meters, then switching over to domestic people who use feet, yards, etc.

Metric really is much more simple.
 
If God had intended us to use the metric system, Jesus would have had 10 apostles.

That said, metric is great for science. But in daily use, imperial is better because measurements are easily divisible into smaller units without dicking around with decimal points. 8 ounces in a cup, 2 cups in a pint, 2 pints in a quart, 4 quarts in a gallon...always cleanly divisible.

Also the biggest problem with metric is that decimeters don't get used. Centimeters are too short and meters are too long for many everyday uses (yes, obviously you just have a boatload of centimeters, but like inches, decimeters would be easier to use). Imperial scales much cleaner for everyday use.
 
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I didnt know there were 4 cups in a pint and 4 pints in a quart....
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If God had intended us to use the metric system, Jesus would have had 10 apostles.

That said, metric is great for science. But in daily use, imperial is better because measurements are easily divisible into smaller units without dicking around with decimal points. 8 ounces in a cup, 2 cups in a pint, 2 pints in a quart, 4 quarts in a gallon...always cleanly divisible.

Also the biggest problem with metric is that decimeters don't get used. Centimeters are too short and meters are too long for many everyday uses (yes, obviously you just have a boatload of centimeters, but like inches, decimeters would be easier to use). Imperial scales much cleaner for everyday use.
You forgot to use the sarcasm font.
 
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There is no need to change to a metric system. At all. That's why we haven't. Who cares what the rest of the world does? It would be change for the sake of change, no other reason.
I know right. Base 10 is so hard to understand and learn right? No value add. Much harder than using several different bases.
 
Of course. I know exactly what percentage two teaspoons is of a cup. IT ALL MAKES PERFECT SENSE!

How many mL are in a teaspoon... Or do they have special spoons in the rest of the world that hold 5 mL instead of 4.93...

I agree that metric is way easier with everything base 10, I just had to point out the fallacy of your post.
 
How many mL are in a teaspoon... Or do they have special spoons in the rest of the world that hold 5 mL instead of 4.93...

I agree that metric is way easier with everything base 10, I just had to point out the fallacy of your post.
In the rest of the world they round up to 5 and call it a teaspoon.

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If God had intended us to use the metric system, Jesus would have had 10 apostles.

That said, metric is great for science. But in daily use, imperial is better because measurements are easily divisible into smaller units without dicking around with decimal points. 8 ounces in a cup, 2 cups in a pint, 2 pints in a quart, 4 quarts in a gallon...always cleanly divisible.

Also the biggest problem with metric is that decimeters don't get used. Centimeters are too short and meters are too long for many everyday uses (yes, obviously you just have a boatload of centimeters, but like inches, decimeters would be easier to use). Imperial scales much cleaner for everyday use.
Tell me which measurement is easier to remember:
2' 5-3/16" or 74.1 cm (I just made it up)

Also, 1 cubic meter = 1,000 liters = 1,000,000 mL
Metric is much easier for engineering: 1 N = 1 kg*m/s2; 1 J = 1 N*m or Kg*m2/s2; 1 W = N*m/s
 
Tell me which measurement is easier to remember:
2' 5-3/16" or 74.1 cm (I just made it up)

Also, 1 cubic meter = 1,000 liters = 1,000,000 mL
Metric is much easier for engineering: 1 N = 1 kg*m/s2; 1 J = 1 N*m or Kg*m2/s2; 1 W = N*m/s
The downside of course is that we'd legally be required to say "maths."
 
Tool makers won't allow it. They would rather I have to own 2 complete sets of tools, rather than one.
 
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No. I work with some companies in Canada and they send us drawings with metric dimensions. You should hear some of the plans reviewers at building departments bitch and whine, those are the nice ones though most of them just reject the plans if I submit the "non-Americanized" plans.
This is what I cannot stand about my fellow Americans.

I don't mind Americans preferring US Customary aka US Standard (not to be confused with "Imperial" -- more in a bit), but they should be ready to accommodate metric without bias. But because too many Americans have this attitude on metric, the problem continues. But that's the funny part ... the US Standard is 100% based on metric!

Unlike the British, the US actually "standardized" on Metric in the second half of the 19th Century. By "standard," I mean the US made sure its Standard was 100% based on metric -- to at least 5 significant digits (later 7 and then 10), the same precision of the metric system itself at the time (1870s) -- something the British did not do, and why the UK has had all sorts of issues in manufacturing the US has not.

There's no better example of this than in the SLR v. FAL magazine specifications -- something only the British have issue with in their SLR, while American manufactured FAL units have no issues whatsoever (despite using machines in US Customary).

Which is why Europeans snubbing the US over the Standard is just as bad in reverse. The US actually had the foresight to recognize Metric should be the standard, even if not used in direct reference. So we don't have conversion and other issues, especially in cases where the US purposely redefined its standard to be exacting to 3-4 digits (e.g., 1" = 25.4mm, exactly). That should be recognized, and it is not by most who assume US = Imperial.

EDIT: Civil disciplines are the most entrenched, plats and land surveys going back hundreds of years. But as of the '90s, civil is often required to show metric in all standard, reference type records documentation (e.g., plats, geodetic, etc...).

Mechanical discplines are also entrenched, as US manufacturing has been a staple. But it's not as bad as one thinks. I.e., when it comes to traditional manufacturing, especially through even the early age of CNC, divisions of 2 are better than 10 for precision. So 1/2, 1/4, 1/8, 1/16, etc... are more precise than 0.1, 0.2, 0.3, etc... Which is why you still see 0.5, 0.25, 0.125, 0.0625, etc... with metric. In fact, it's not uncommon to find 3.175, 6.35, 12.7, etc... in mm, because it corresponds to 1/8", 1/4" and 1/2". This is very unlikely to change anytime soon either.

Electrical Engineering discplines have almost always been Metric in the US. This is largely because electrical disciplines started after the introduction of metric to the world. It's why you would traditionally see a PC computer case in the US that has US Standard dimensions for the case, but metric for the dimensions of the power supply contained within. Any more things have gone completely metric in the PC world though, with a few exceptions. But mil space has been long gone, and didn't survive in the IC era.

But I fully expect to see miles and degrees F continue in the US. More and more we're starting to see km and degrees C also reported. It doesn't mean the US is backwards. It just means we have our casual references. The UK has far more issues than the US, especially in its overseas territories, which is why too many Europeans automatically assume the US has as many issues.

In reality ... the US went metric a long time ago. It's just that we continue to use our "Customary" units that are fully standarized on metric, something the UK never did. That forced the issue in the UK ... although they still uses miles, and Imperial gallons are utterly different, and not based on metric either. E.g., 40mpg-UK is 32mpg-US, because an Imperial gallon is 25% larger than US Customary, which is 20% smaller.

Which also goes to explain the ignorance behind why so many from the UK think US cars get worse gas mileage too. And it becomes a self-fulling argument.
 
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No, it's not. Shut up.
Source: I work at an AEC.
And my father is a licensed land surveyor. He has had to include metric in all government recordings for the past couple of decades. Nearly all states have enacted such requirements, starting in the '90s.
 
And my father is a licensed land surveyor. He has had to include metric in all government recordings for the past couple of decades. Nearly all states have enacted such requirements, starting in the '90s.
Then our Civil PEs are out of code right?

Perhaps you should say Land Surveyors instead of Civil.
 
Then our Civil PEs are out of code right?
Perhaps you should say Land Surveyors instead of Civil.
I said "civil disciplines."
Also ... are you submitting them for recording as official, government documentation?

Context is everything.
Don't disagree just to disagree with me.

NOTE: I'm purposely holding back on commenting further about "Architects."
E.g., as my father and I used to common joke ... there was always one building drawing in a set by an architect that would always have at least 1 side that didn't add up correctly with another. ;)
 
I said "civil disciplines."
Also ... are you submitting them for recording as official, government documentation?

Context is everything.
Don't disagree just to disagree with me.

NOTE: I'm purposely holding back on commenting further about "Architects."
E.g., as my father and I used to common joke ... there was always one building drawing in a set by an architect that would always have at least 1 side that didn't add up correctly with another. ;)
No, of course not. We build schools, airports, and roads without submitting permits or having any government oversight. We also don't work directly with government agencies like FDOT or NASA to develop their documentation, we do it just for the hell of it.

I'm not just making this shit up like you are.
 
WTF. The government does not require plans in metric. Where the fuk do you pull this shit from. I have never seen a survey in metric.
 
No, of course not. We build schools, airports, and roads without submitting permits or having any government oversight. We also don't work directly with government agencies like FDOT or NASA to develop their documentation, we do it just for the hell of it.
I'm not just making this shit up like you are.
WTF. The government does not require plans in metric. Where the fuk do you pull this shit from. I have never seen a survey in metric.
Again ... context!

If the government requires, per statute and/or governing contract that units will include metric ... and many do these days, you must do so. I'm not talking just any survey or architectural drawing that may be recorded by the government, or just those for a government agency having work done, but those recorded as a government standard reference. Plats, geodetic markers, etc... in many states are requiring them more and more for this type of work, and definitely the US Geological Survey, who has been updating its standard references that everyone uses.

E.g., those contractors who are doing that work ... on-behalf of states and/or the federal agencies updating their standard references ... are very much required to include metric!

So ... my entire and original point is that various government projects that are for official records, often require metric to be included, and not just US customary alone ... and this is what is slowly changing the civil disciplines, which have been the most resistant to metric.

Sigh ... you guys just love to argue with me, instead of recognizing the point I was making ... in the context of the OP, "Will the us ever go completely to the metric system?" Inertia is the biggest issue, and civil has had the most resistance because so many existing, standard references are only in US customary.

But those standard references are almost always including metric since the '90s!
 
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Again ... context!

If the government requires, per statute and/or governing contract that units will include metric ... and many do these days, you must do so. I'm not talking just any survey or architectural drawing that may be recorded by the government, or just those for a government agency having work done, but those recorded as a government standard reference. Plats, geodetic markers, etc... in many states are requiring them more and more for this type of work, and definitely the US Geological Survey, who has been updating its standard references that everyone uses.

E.g., those contractors who are doing that work ... on-behalf of states and/or the federal agencies updating their standard references ... are very much required to include metric!

So ... my entire and original point is that various government projects that are for official records, often require metric to be included, and not just US customary alone ... and this is what is slowly changing the civil disciplines, which have been the most resistant to metric.

Sigh ... you guys just love to argue with me, instead of recognizing the point I was making ... in the context of the OP, "Will the us ever go completely to the metric system?" Inertia is the biggest issue, and civil has had the most resistance because so many existing, standard references are only in US customary.

But those standard references are almost always including metric since the '90s!
No, we're arguing with you because you are wrong OR blakently stating something as a truth when it only applies to one organization.

Of course if the government requires it, you must do it. Hell, if the company you are working for requires metric, you must do it. My point is, WHAT AGENCY REQUIRES IT? here are some organizations that, in my experience, do not. NASA, MDA, DOD, FAA, DOT, NOAA.

You claim many governments require it but fail to name a single one.

Does the USGS require metric? Maybe, I don't know, I've never worked for them. Is the USGS the only government agency you are referring to while blanketly stating many require metric? Likely.

I can't think of a single land survey I've ever looked at that had metric anywhere on it. This includes the reference documents we generate from GIS. Have you every looked a detailed plan or spec? Do you realize how convoluted or confusing it would be to then add (metric) dimensions and details on top of an already busy drawing or plan?

Are you talking about standards? Like an FAA, DOD, MIL, or NASA standard? (btw, none of those organizations contain metric and English 100% of the time) Land surveys? none that i've ever seen. Environmental assessments? Nope.

We provided sources to our claims, you did not. You claimed civil disciplines , which includes way more than just USGS surveyors, require metric in their official documents which is 100% wrong.
 
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I updated my original post to reduce confusion.

My point is that new government standard references are slowly going to turn civil disciplines towards metric. Anyone generating those standard references, such as contractors, have to. I merely was trying to point out that civil disciplines has been the most resistant, because it was almost entirely US Customary, and has been for a long time.

I know you don't like me. But please give me some credit and meet me halfway ... in the context presented.

That's what tripped a lot of you up in the Windows thread too. BTW, have you seen the continued backtracking lately because of people like myself pointing out technical impossibilities and all the hacks? I.e., I've seen this too many times, and Windows 10 and the latest .NET is no different.
 
You can't go back and edit your post and then argue something else. You said the government and all states require their documents to be in metric dating back to the 90's. That's not true. I'm looking at plats and surveys and site plans for every job I do and have never seen one in metric. That sort of thing would stick out and I'd remember if I did.
 
The US military officially tests and qualifies ammunition in Meters Per Second for muzzle velocity (and distance in meters or KM) yet most anyone you talk to at the user level will talk in Feet Per Second or miles or yards.

It's confusing as hell.
 
You can't go back and edit your post
Dude, I clearly put Edit: and used italics for all new wordsn the clarification. Can you at least admit that I did not hide that? Or do you guys just want to argue to force me to be "wrong" in whatever context you desire?

and then argue something else.
My point was that changing civil is only happening because of new, standard references all going metric. I'm sorry I used "documentation" which was too generic. Okay?

This is why in-person conversations are always better. Because when you're thinking something different than how others take it, you can quickly correct it. But look at how UCFRogerz responded immediately, first response.

That's what gets old here. Instead of asking for clarification, it's immediate hatred.

You said the government and all states require their documents to be in metric dating back to the 90's.
Starting in the '90s ... yes. All official standards reference and related work has been increasingly requiring metric inclusion ... which means anyone contracted to that work must.

That's not true. I'm looking at plats and surveys and site plans for every job I do and have never seen one in metric. That sort of thing would stick out and I'd remember if I did.
Which means they are only recorded by the government, not official, standard reference by and of the government. There hasn't been an universal requirement that all private work be in metric, not even when recorded by the government.

I completely admit this, and the civil discipline will be the last to go metric.
 
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