Another school shooting
- Thread starter Cubs79
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But there were armed security in the Buffalo and Texas shootings. And the shooters were wearing body armor. So yes they had an expectation of armed resistance. Maybe you have a point in the church shootings or something, but again the reasonable reaction isn’t to just hire 10 million security guards and station them in every public space. At least to me it isn’t.
TO make it more difficult to buy guns, I have said this. Waiting periods, better back ground checks, red flag laws etc etc. The Republican ideas are not working, they simply arent. We either try to fix it or we just accept dead kids in America, it is one or the other.
notice how these shootings never happen where other people are armed?
...and of course there are 50 senators who won't pass the gun background check bill that's been there for 2 years. These garbage senators have blood on their hands. Statistically, other countries have the same amount of psychologically problematic 18 year olds, but in the US, that transfers to mass shootings. This is real data.
and that's a tiny fraction of schools. Tiny. Why hasn't the hero gun holder theory worked?
I think that we should work towards a gun free country in an incremental manner. Maybe, rent them for hunting, one handgun per household and of course law enforcement
hey, crazy idea....common sense gun laws and better psychological awareness of these disgruntled mass killers.
Yeah…, the Buffalo retired police officer of 30 years says hi!
Let’s arm the kids at schools and entire Superwalmarts. What could go wrong?
How would you like to make it more difficult? We have all of those and they don’t stop mass shootings.
You can’t. It’s a meaningless conversation. Other countries don’t have similar problems because the guns don’t exist on the same scale as they do in the US, it’s not because they have dialed in the right amount of laws and regulations. The only way to reduce gun crime is to have an entire culture shift. Right now every mass shooting is a boon for gun sales.
How many of these mass murder victims would have actually saved THEMSELVES wth a gun?
Weird how this mass shooter business is primarily a US of A thing. I can't imagine why that is.
_glaciers genius solution is to have elementary school students start packin' heat.
Not remotely true. Buffalo had an armed security guard and Texas has guns all over the place and this happens in Texas as much as anywhere. Even in this case the guy was confronted by armed police and was still able to do what he did. If more armed people was the solution, we would be the safest country on Earth.
Texas has mass shootings frequently and it isnt a coincidence that a state and government that promotes guns all over the place and has very loose gun laws has this happen so often. And it isnt as if people cant travel across state lines with guns they purchased in a state with loose laws.
In Texas, a teenager can buy an AR-15 assault rifle on his 18th birthday (as this mass murderer did) but can't buy a beer. What's wrong with this picture?
It could have been. Sandy Hook, Pulse, Vegas, etc were all worse as far as body count.
Chicago has mass shootings frequently too and they have some of the most restrictive gun laws in the country.
And if not there then Mexico and through the ports. It’ll always be the case. You can say that you want eliminate guns but you can’t make that happen. Any more than any prohibition has ever worked in this country.
Lol. Mexico? Their guns come from the US. You know the country that is the largest manufacturer and exporter of guns in the world by a massive margin. There is also a border check to enter the country that doesn’t exist traveling between cities and states.
Yes and then they are resold at the largest arms black market in the world. There is offshore production now too and even production of guns that come into this country that never had serial numbers. Do you really think that banning all guns is going to eliminate the demand, especially among the cartels and gangs? It’s like saying that banning drugs will keep people from dying from an opiate overdose.
I just thought it was funny you were mentioning smuggling guns from Mexico into the United States when the guns that exist in Mexico and used by the cartels are all produced in the United States and cross the border into Mexico easily. It is comparatively much more difficult to cross the border in the other direction. And of course why would you need to smuggle guns into the US in the first place? They are literally everywhere. I never said it was a reasonable proposition to eliminate guns from the US. I just found it laughable that you thought one of the hold ups would be gun running from Mexico.
It absolutely is a holdup and will be regardless. I know they get some of their guns from the US currently but that can and will change. Many of the gangs in California and across the southern border get their guns from Mexico, even if they were manufactured here. The Mexicans buy them and use them, then sell them back to American criminals at a discount. They have a body on them in Mexico but they are still clean here so they have value. This is the modern arms trade.
That claim that 90% of the Mexican cartel’s guns from the US is garbage anyways. In 2008, the Mexican authorities seized 30,000 firearms. Of those 30,000, they only submitted 7,200 to the US ATF for tracing. Of those 7,200, only 4,000 could actually be traced by the ATF and, of those, 3,480 traced back to the US. That’s 87% but it’s a phantom number. In reality, of the 30,000 weapons seized, only 12% were actually traced to the US. Now, some of those not submitted had their serial numbers removed and many of those probably originated in the US. But many of the seized weapons were legally purchased through the Mexican government’s program. They also didn’t bother to trace any weapons that were obviously of third country origin. Another study was run in 2018 that found a little more than 50% us origin and that was only those submitted.
Sure, Mexico wants to lay all its problems at our feet but it’s not nearly what they claim. Most real experts would put the number around 50%. I’ve linked one article but you can find many more.
Mexico's Gun Supply and the 90 Percent Myth
It is a common claim that almost all the weapons used by Mexican drug cartels come from the United States, but the numbers don't add up.
worldview.stratfor.com
You can literally drive into Mexico with a gun and not be stopped. That is where their guns come from. The vast majority. It’s still funny that you are worried about a gun that was manufactured and sold in the US making its way back to the US by way of Mexican cartels. That’s the entire point I was originally making. We can’t prevent guns in the US because the guns that we manufacture and sell in the US could get smuggled to Mexico and back. Strange logic for sure.It absolutely is a holdup and will be regardless. I know they get some of their guns from the US currently but that can and will change. Many of the gangs in California and across the southern border get their guns from Mexico, even if they were manufactured here. The Mexicans buy them and use them, then sell them back to American criminals at a discount. They have a body on them in Mexico but they are still clean here so they have value. This is the modern arms trade.
That claim that 90% of the Mexican cartel’s guns from the US is garbage anyways. In 2008, the Mexican authorities seized 30,000 firearms. Of those 30,000, they only submitted 7,200 to the US ATF for tracing. Of those 7,200, only 4,000 could actually be traced by the ATF and, of those, 3,480 traced back to the US. That’s 87% but it’s a phantom number. In reality, of the 30,000 weapons seized, only 12% were actually traced to the US. Now, some of those not submitted had their serial numbers removed and many of those probably originated in the US. But many of the seized weapons were legally purchased through the Mexican government’s program. They also didn’t bother to trace any weapons that were obviously of third country origin. Another study was run in 2018 that found a little more than 50% us origin and that was only those submitted.
Sure, Mexico wants to lay all its problems at our feet but it’s not nearly what they claim. Most real experts would put the number around 50%. I’ve linked one article but you can find many more.
Mexico's Gun Supply and the 90 Percent Myth
It is a common claim that almost all the weapons used by Mexican drug cartels come from the United States, but the numbers don't add up.
You are "debating" with a literal moron, a traitor to the Constitution.
Are you just going to keep repeating your inaccurate information or are you going to actually learn something?
God dammit.
"In a news conference on Wednesday, officials said Ramos was inside the school for at least 40 minutes before a Border Patrol team breached the classroom and killed him."
www.newsweek.com
"In a news conference on Wednesday, officials said Ramos was inside the school for at least 40 minutes before a Border Patrol team breached the classroom and killed him."
Texas Police Stopped Parents Rushing In To Save Children From Shooter—Video
The director of the Texas Department of Public Safety defended the actions of law enforcement, saying police engaged shooter Salvador Ramos immediately and contained him in a classroom.
www.newsweek.com
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Not trying to be too quick to judge here, but all this stuff coming out looks pretty bad for the police, to say the least.God dammit.
"In a news conference on Wednesday, officials said Ramos was inside the school for at least 40 minutes before a Border Patrol team breached the classroom and killed him."
Texas Police Stopped Parents Rushing In To Save Children From Shooter—Video
The director of the Texas Department of Public Safety defended the actions of law enforcement, saying police engaged shooter Salvador Ramos immediately and contained him in a classroom.
Which part is inaccurate.
a) you can drive across the border into Mexico without even a passport check.
b) the US is by far the leading manufacturer and distributor of guns on the planet.
c) I laughed at the logic that we can’t reduce the guns in the US because they would still be smuggled in from Mexico (a country that doesn’t manufacture guns)
Guys, we just need more guns, more police, and one single door (actual quote by ted cruz)
We aren't debating with rational people. The gods/guns/trump cult is a cancer to society.
We aren't debating with rational people. The gods/guns/trump cult is a cancer to society.
I do wonder if a possible solution to school shootings is veteran presence. I know tons of vets who sit around shooting ranges and drink coffee all day long. They tell war stories and chat with people because they have nothing better to do. I am quite sure they could and would love to defend schools and would have no problem taking out some asshole who is trying to hurt children. I can pretty much guarantee you that they wouldn't wait 40 minutes to do so.
Just a thought.
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