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Anti-gun activist and blowhard Alec Baldwin shoots and kills film director

Yes. You complain. That, we can agree upon. Given the opportunity to do something, it's pretty much nothing.
How do you figure? I'm not following at all. I refuse to take sides I disagree with. I refuse to support violations of civil rights, or at least question some processes, when I see fit ... regardless of the defendent and/or alleged victims.

There's enough to get Baldwin, among so many others, on other merits than fishing on his phone.
 
How do you figure? I'm not following at all. I refuse to take sides I disagree with. I refuse to support violations of civil rights, or at least question some processes, when I see fit ... regardless of the defendent and/or alleged victims.

There's enough to get Baldwin, among so many others, on other merits than fishing on his phone.
It's very simple: given the opportunity and authority to do so, would you use that authority and in what way?
 
It's very simple: given the opportunity and authority to do so, would you use that authority and in what way?
As long as it was Constitutional, which would go against my principals if it wasn't, I would do it. That's what true Liberals/Libertarians do.

If you want otherwise, then look not only to Conservatives, but I think Progressives have 1'up'd Conservatives now in authoritarian abuse of power that is Unconstitutional.
 
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As long as it was Constitutional, which would go against my principals, I would do it. That's what true Liberals/Libertarians do.

If you want otherwise, then look not only to Conservatives, but I think Progressives have 1'up'd Conservatives now in authoritarian abuse of power that is Unconstitutional.
If it was constitutional it would go against your principles?

Stop using "I'm a libertarian" as a shield that you think somebody actually respects and just admit that you're either an anarchist or a pussy that tries to talk his way out of establishing a position.

Sorry, but not really sorry
 
If it was constitutional it would go against your principles?

Stop using "I'm a libertarian" as a shield that you think somebody actually respects and just admit that you're either an anarchist or a pussy that tries to talk his way out of establishing a position.

Sorry, but not really sorry
You know what I meant. This is pretty weaksauce in general. True Libertarians are very outspoken, and for some reason, you -- like several others -- think that means we don't do anything if we don't support clear Conservative and/or Progressive movements that go against our values.
 
Now if you mean the ACLU, they are no longer Libertarian. Their leadership started going Progressive over the past decade.
Admittedly, I'm somewhat of an ignoranous when it comes to the Libertarian movement. I'm not a card-carrying member like you but I would have assumed that you and your like-minded associates cheer the ACLU's defenses of gay marriage, reproductive rights, drug legalization, victims of police abuse, supporting LGBTQ rights as well as exposing government lies and not jailing people for the crime of being poor.

So I'm curious to learn what were the issues that turned the ACLU into...(shudder)...'Progressivec' over the past decade. Please help me out on this one.
 
Admittedly, I'm somewhat of an ignoranous when it comes to the Libertarian movement. I'm not a card-carrying member like you but I would have assumed that you and your like-minded associates cheer the ACLU's defenses of gay marriage, reproductive rights, drug legalization, victims of police abuse, supporting LGBTQ rights as well as exposing government lies and not jailing people for the crime of being poor.
We still do, and did with the ACLU, even as late as 2016.

But the ACLU changed when it's top leadership decided it would 'more selectively support' organizations in the wake of Virigina, and no longer blindly support 'free speech' regardless of viewpoint.

I.e., the ACLU will not support the rights of Fascists/Nazi's marching today.

As much as we hate the idea, we have to support their right to do so. We're at the point that we're starting to be selective in who has free speech, and who is allowed to be a customer, based on personal views.

Because the problem is ... the ACLU is not just stopping support of real Facists/Nazis, but anyone who is even labeled such. This includes Kyle Rittenhouse now, who is anything but a white supremicist. But he's being utterly labeled oned, including by the ACLU itself!


So I'm curious to learn what were the issues that turned the ACLU into...(shudder)...'Progressivec' over the past decade. Please help me out on this one.
Although there have been many articles since 2016, here's one of the more recent ones at the New York Times.


The WSJ pointed out the more 'obviousness of the truth' back in 2018 ... that the ACLU leadership had already changed, 'purged' anyone pointing out things (including what really happened in Virginia -- who stated all sides were wrong, which was 'too close' to 'what Trump stated'), and then tried to 'explain it away' instead of admitting that they were now a Progressive, not a Civil Rights, organization any more.


Just 8-10 years ago, the ACLU was a completely different organiation. It's amazing how new leadership literally destroyed so many decades of being true Liberals. Progressive causes are 'winning out' at the ACLU, and the last, remaining Liberals -- like many did in the US Media by the mid '00s -- are being 'forced out.'

The last bastion of Liberals and Libertarians are in the Judicial System, but most of those Gen-X'ers, and a few Boomers still around, are slowing being replaced by Millennials and, soon, Zoomers that will likely view the 1st Amendment more selectively.

I'd much, much rather have an alleged 'Progressive' Justice like Sotomayor, who still understand the 1st Amendment, than some of these allegedly 'Moderate' Millennials, who do not. Justicis like Sotomayor still support the rights of people she strongly disagrees with.

The ACLU has decided to not only not support civil rights for those they disagree with, but ... actively demonize and label those they disagree with, quite wrongly. It didn't even take 5 years for them to utterly lose their values.
 
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And don't forget this one ...

A kid, who has won lawsuit after lawsuit against the Mass Media, because he did nothing but wear a MAGA hat, and having the Mass Media 'invent' things that never happened (even the Native American had to admit to lying about it), having to deal with ACLU staffers writing letters to the media complaining about colleges who accepted the 17 year-old kid as a student.

If that isn't something ... I don't know what is! I mean, he was ... what ... 15-16 at the time? And his entire educational future should be ruined for merely wearing a MAGA hat? Seriously ... that's everything that is wrong with the ACLU. The kid was pro-gay rights too! I mean, a lot of Zoomer MAGA supportes are pro-marriage equality now, yes, Christians!

They were even defending the Native American against the anti-gay African-Americans nearby, which was all over the videos the US Media refused to show!

 
It’s always so hard to know what is true or not based upon the media reports. Early on we heard that there were previous unintentional discharges with this weapon. But that would be an easy thing for law enforcement to know and you think they’d have come out with a story and/or charges by now. Given that hasn’t been the case, it feels like they are dotting all the i’s and crossing all the t’s for charges against Baldwin right now. Which I’ve said from day one are appropriate.
 
Lot of detail in the new Vanity Fair article.

If you can get past the dismissal of Baldwin's handling of the weapon, it still shows how mismanaged the entire project was, and does state Baldwin is still a producer. It does focus on all the issues short going too far into the handling by Baldwin and others, but it does end with notes on that too. It was trying to be neutral.

And it quotes Baldwin, which is why I have lost all possible respect for him.

Should Baldwin himself have checked the gun? George Clooney is among the actors who say he should have. “Every single time I’m handed a gun on the set, every time they hand me a gun, I look at it, I open it, I show it to the person I’m pointing it to, I show it to the crew,” Clooney said on Marc Maron’s WTF podcast. “Every single take.”
In a December interview with ABC News, Baldwin reacted testily to the notion that he bore some responsibility. “If your protocol is you checking the gun every time, well, good for you. Good for you,” he said. “My protocol was to trust the person that had the job, and it worked up until this point.”...

 
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Alec Baldwin:
Criminal Negligent Homicide: Not Guilty
Civil Wrongful Death: Guilty, awarded $5-10m

You read it here 1st.
Good prediction, although it might also read ...

Alec Baldwin:
Criminal Negligent Homicide: Indicted, lesser charge of Negligent Manslaughter via plea bargin, paroled with community service only​
Civil Wrongful Death: Settled out of court for an undisclosed sum, no public admission of guilt​

In any case ... this will be the 'accident' that 2nd Amendment advocates will continually use to say, "Oh, so when it's an accidental death by the anti-gunners, we don't want them in jail .. only when they're Pro-2nd Amendment do you want Negligent Homicide or even Murder, eh?" And they have a point.

Anti-gunners want accidents to be Murder or at least Negligent Homicide charges, but in this case, they are 100% with Baldwin, 0% Clooney, that US OHSA & Industry Union required safety by actors be implemented. In fact, I think those words Baldwin used in the December interview might come back to haunt him.

In a December interview with ABC News, Baldwin reacted testily to the notion that he bore some responsibility. “If your protocol is you checking the gun every time, well, good for you. Good for you,” he said. “My protocol was to trust the person that had the job, and it worked up until this point.”...
 
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