I’ll stay consistent and say that no U.S. president can do crap about this
Time to severely limit the unvaccinated
Nm
- Thread starter KNIGHTTIME^
- Start date
Time to severely limit the unvaccinated
We are run by special interest and their control freaks.
Despite ‘Delta’ Alarmism, US COVID Deaths Are at Lowest Level Since March 2020, Harvard and Stanford Professors Explain | Brad Polumbo
If you judged the US’s current COVID-19 situation only by the headlines, you’d come away thinking that we’re spiraling back into pandemic disaster. But according to these two Ivy League professors, you'd be wrong.
fee.org
At that point, he was probably correct. There was no reason to test asymptomatic people once we already knew how quickly the thing spreads.
"We just don't know."
"It's experimental."
"Not FDA approved."
"It will kill you."
"I'm pro choice."
"Freedom."
"It doesn't work."
"Who cares? It's just the sniffles."
"Fukc you."
Am I missing anything from Melvin and Corky?
Don Lemon on CNN suggested that people who don’t have vaccines shouldn’t be allowed to buy food or work.
Does that level of authoritarianism have any precedent?
There's a book that I read one time, and the last chapter said we would get to the point where people couldn't conduct in commerce unless they had proof of compliance.
Lol… and Ucfmikes disliked my post, as if there’s something untrue about it. But no comment letting me know where I’m wrong.
I can dislike whatever the fukc I want without giving a reason snowflake ❄️ LOL
Just wait. They'll decide that these are too inconvenient for people and too easy to forge, so the solution will be a permanent mark or a chip that can be installed under the skin that can easily be scanned.
@UCFBS @KNIGHTTIME^ @Crazyhole You guys are basically slaveholders.
www.theatlantic.com
We’re Still Living and Dying in the Slaveholders’ Republic
The pandemic has brought the latest battle in the long American war over communal well-being.
“For the record,” I think all 3 of you anti-vaxxers should be tortured and put to a slow death just for being so stupid. Shit for brains. There is no room in a civilized society for antiquated 14th century “pre-vaccine” thinking
My concern is the power that dis-information has to shape society. Freedom comes with responsibility, and societies that can't handle the responsibility will become less-free via mandate and regulation out of necessity.
Imagine a highly responsible society where infant car seats are a cultural thing. Everyone uses them and always have. It's so ingrained in society no one has ever felt the need to mandate it via law. Let's also assume these car seats are 100% effective in car accidents (no infant has ever died in an accident as a direct result of injury). But, infants have become trapped in burning or sinking cars when when a release latch gets stuck. So even though countless lives have been saved, there are experiences where the seat itself could be seen as the direct cause of death. So soon, we see a campaign claiming "Car accidents kill 0 children per year, but car seats kill 100 infants! The data Big-Car Seat doesn't want you to know!"
An anti-car seat movement pops up. Brand new mom's are freaked out. Meme's are blazing around FB. The percentage of infants not in car seats is slowly climbing, along with infant death in accidents. Government is forced to mandate infant car seats. Freedom decreases as the government has now mandated an aspect of "parental choice" to protect children from their own parents.
This is how bad data and misinformation campaigns lead to poor choices, more regulation, and less freedom. But in the above scenario, anti-car-seaters have no political power to do anything about it. But as bad information and political oppurtunitists exploit these vulnerabilities, that group grows large enough to have political power, allowing them to negatively effect society at large.
So if you truly value individual freedom, you must care about collective decision making in society. I don't care about individual choices to vaccinate, but I do care about the big picture impact that is the collective results of those decisions.
You might argue this is a bad analogy, but I think it highlights something important. A car seat is something you can touch and feel. It's benefit is plainly obvious to someone with zero knowledge of physics, engineering, human anatomy, etc. Vaccination could have an identical risk/reward profile as the car seat, but lacks that intuitive obviousness to a lay person. That makes it ripe for disinformation leading to poor collective decision making.
I cannot believe The Atlantic 'went there.'@UCFBS @KNIGHTTIME^ @Crazyhole You guys are basically slaveholders.
We’re Still Living and Dying in the Slaveholders’ Republic
The pandemic has brought the latest battle in the long American war over communal well-being.
Sigh ... minorities don't trust the government for a reason. I don't blame them.
If the US CDC and WHO would have just been honest, forward and transparent like the US NIH and FDA from the get-go, I'd trust them just as much. But nope, both looked like political idiots who downplayed what the NIH and even FDA were saying at times.
It's sad, because mRNA is becoming one of the greatest 'overnight boosters' for IgG antibodies, and we'll have a Delta Booster soon enough. It's a new age for 'overnight booster' development thanks to the technology. And the few, rare complications are proving easy to mitigate (e.g., just don't get the 30 unit 2nd shot if you have select issues with the first).
But the pandemic won't end. Sorry, but that's a continued lie. We could vaccinate 95% of adults, and over 90% of kids, and it won't. Delta showed up well before we could even get close, and there will be others in the future.
SARS-CoV-2 is the new OC43-CoV.
The interesting part of your car seat analogy is that the biggest killer of kids isn't a properly-used car seat in a crash or a defective car seat or the engineering of car seats but that parents often improperly install car seats or misuse them as sleepers and the children die. There is a corollary here for children where the early variants of COVID didn't affect younger children much at all and there were worries about the effects of the vaccines on children. So, is there any case where vaccinating can pose a large risk than not-vaccinating. I hope not.
There is a pressure in the public to approve the vaccine for all age groups quickly and it seems that the approval process isn't responding to that pressure. Hopefully that is the case because our children need the best due diligence that we can provide them.
People don't trust politicians and they especially don't trust politicians when the messaging is inconsistent. The biggest reason that we have such a large group of people resisting the vaccines is because the politicians made the vaccines (and really all of the information around COVID response) political to win an election. That was the first impression and a significant portion of the population will never change that first impression.
Actually, this is a poster for something 180 degrees from what you're arguing!
If mRNA vaccines, none of which have US FDA approval, don't significantly reduce the spread, so even if 90% of all people, including kids who don't even spread it 1/20th of adults, were vaccinated, it wouldn't matter. I can quote study after study, statistic after statistic, and people will say I'm an anti-vaxxer and spreading misinformation.
Reality? I'm an extremely well-read person who actually listens to actual, major medical experts and their research, and refuses to accept the 1-2 'experts' the US Media highlights or what they say. Why? Because the US Media is the one actually spreading the worst misinformation and utterly setting the wrong expectations.
And the lockdowns themselves -- using any justification -- are the actual, greatest threat to freedom!
Interesting analogy, because we used to think 9G seats were more than sufficient for aircraft crash landings. Ignorance is deadly, and 'blind faith' doesn't require a church.
I.e., people blindly accepting things and outlawing differentiating viewpoints is the ultimate danger, and you're only advocating more of such!
But is the US Media providing any less misinformation? Too many of you think mRNA vaccines will stop the spread. It's not, and didn't even before Delta. You move the 'goal posts' and only assert more control. And why?
Government knows better, be a 'blind faith' member of its church.
Can I get a Hell No?!?!?! Every fiber of my being takes massive issue with your entire assertion here!
Conform so we can be free? I'm sorry, but ... no. Hell no. Never! Period! And all this you are saying is based on misinformation itself, for the purposes of control! These are the same politicians who are helping their friends make huge money during this pandemic too. It's unreal how many people are not questioning what is going on!
On another note ... I like how many states -- both left and right -- are passing voter changes that all agree on one thing ... 3rd parties need more signatures, and less time to collect them ... to even get on the ballot. Wake TF up people!
What will your excuse be next month, Melvin, Corky, and the Hamster?
www.nytimes.com
F.D.A. Aims to Give Final Approval to Pfizer Vaccine by Early Next Month (Published 2021)
The Food and Drug Administration’s move is expected to kick off more vaccination mandates for hospital workers, college students and federal troops.
It means the US FDA is violating its own rules. Interesting.What will your excuse be next month, Melvin, Corky, and the Hamster?
F.D.A. Aims to Give Final Approval to Pfizer Vaccine by Early Next Month (Published 2021)
The Food and Drug Administration’s move is expected to kick off more vaccination mandates for hospital workers, college students and federal troops.
I.e., full approval takes at least 10 months from date of submission. It can be reduced to 6 months (EDIT: 6, not 7 months) in emergency situations.
This would be half of even the emergency requirement.
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Lolollllllllllll!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hahahahahahahahahahahahhaah!!!!!
(Pausing to switch languages)
Jajajjajaajajjajaajjajajajajajahahahahaahhahawhhahahahahahahahajaajkaajaajjajajajaja!!!
You’re. A. Joke.
Show me otherwise. Show me where the FDA grants full approval in 3-4 months after submission.
I can only point out the FDA's own rules. Why is it when I do that, people like yourself pull this ... even though I'm not wrong?
HahahhhahahhahhahhahahhahahahahaahahhahahahahhahahahahaahhHhhahaahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahhh!!!!!!!!!
jajajajajajajajjajjajaajajajjjaajajajajajajaajajajajajajaajajajajajajduddhhjjajJajjajajjAjajaj!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hamster screams about it not being FDA approved for 11 months.
FDA APPROVED
Hamster bitches that they broke rules!!!!!
Like I said, you’re a joke. A huge joke.
The application was not until mid this year.
You really don't understand how the US FDA approval process works, do you?
Seriously, you're a 3rd grader.
You (student): "Ummm, teacher, I want to apply to get my grade now, before the school year starts. I already know all the answers."
Me (teacher): "Ummm, so you expect me to get your grade before I can even see any of your work?"
Keep breaking your neck with your mental gymnastics, you irresponsible anti-vaxxer chud.
You're. A. Joke.
So you're conceding you're an idiot that doesn't know anything?
And your entire defense is to follow-up as a troll?
You guys are just literally discrediting yourselves.
I’m sorry that you’ve lost all credibility after months and months of your anti-vaxxer nonsense. You’re done. It was fun, but You. Are. Done.
Huh? Everything I predicted has come true! Meanwhile, you guys have continually been wrong, and moved the goal posts.
The sole thing I've been mistaken about was that kids spread it worse than adults. That ended up being the opposite reality in the 15 month Berlin study.
Again ... how many times do you have to be proven wrong? c/o WedMD ...
www.webmd.com
COVID-19 Vaccines
Vaccines are seen as one of the best ways to stop COVID-19. Learn more about the types of vaccines, including the newly approved Novavax.
www.webmd.com
QUOTE: 'Pfizer says it’s seeking a priority review, which the FDA defines as “a 6-month review of the entire BLA rather than the usual 10-month review.”'
Again ... how many times do you have to be proven wrong? c/o WedMD ...
COVID-19 Vaccines
Vaccines are seen as one of the best ways to stop COVID-19. Learn more about the types of vaccines, including the newly approved Novavax.
QUOTE: 'Pfizer says it’s seeking a priority review, which the FDA defines as “a 6-month review of the entire BLA rather than the usual 10-month review.”'
OH NOOOOOOOOOOEZZZZ!!!!!! THE AUDACITY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
We are still laughing at you.
You're a smart and well read dude. I have no doubts about the accuracy of your data or your ability to properly assess that data and assign risk. In fact, I think out of anyone on this board (myself included) I'd pick you to be the guy to do a technical deep dive on an a brand new topic and report back. I appreciated a post you made the other day about vaccines and kids (I have two kids under 12 so that's something I'm going to need to be paying attention to soon).
But I'm not sure how well you "get" people who don't think like you do. You have to analyze this from the least common denominator on up. You are perfectly fit to do a deep dive and come to your own conclusion - but for a huge chunk of the population - a "deep dive" will invariably result in them drawing incorrect conclusions based on conspiracy theories, anecdotal evidence, and the meme their aunt just shared on FB.
Encouraging people to "do their own research" is basically telling society to manage public health via memes. We stand no chance. So for the majority of the public, we are FAR better off simply recognizing authority (CDC) when it comes to public health advice - despite the flaws. Undermining that authority can only create worse outcomes. If you convince the average person the CDC isn't trustworthy, they aren't going to JAMA to read studies - they're going to rely on anecdotes and stupid shit they find on the internet which can only be worse.
This has nothing to do with blind faith in government, authority, or forcing people to conform. It's simply a pragmatic assessment of human behavior - not an idealistic theory on the role of government. People are born free. But when they make decisions to create a real or perceived harm to society, that freedom can be taken away. We don't throw minority political viewpoints in jail, but the majority will absolutely strip them of "freedom" when they deem it necessary. That's just reality.
"Conform so we can be free? I'm sorry, but ... no. Hell no. Never! Period!"
I wanted to say that this statement seemed a little dramatically idealistic. We all conform to societal standards every single day. I mean, are we truly a free society if we're not allowed to walk around naked in public? But even if you truly believe people should be allowed to walk around naked, would that cause be worth the costs of a civil war? The bottom line is that we're all willing to exchange freedoms we don't value for the ones that we do. In other words - yes - we all absolutely conform in exchange for freedom via a shared set of rules. Conflict occurs through time as those standards change.
Even if people disagree with me, I'm just glad people like you can be civil about it. I've been wrong on one big thing, about kids spreading it, and will readily admit when I'm wrong too.
What's killing good discourse among experts is how many of them are being not just disregarded, but deplatformed, even when other experts who disagree with them think that is wrong too.
Because none of them are anti-vax either, but trying to 'reset expectations.'
And US Media experts who accept alternate viewpoints are deplatformed, so all we get in the US Media are the ones agreeing with Journalists.
There are a lot of people within the US CDC itself upset with the mess its become. The US NIH is utterly tired of doctors saying things without any proof, and in some cases, when it ends up being wrong, the skeptics have a field day as a result. Mistrust is rampant... and even justified in some ways
Even the US CDC and WHO are starting to join the US FDA and NIH in trying to get the non-sense to stop now, but the first 2 made their own beds.
And even the NIH has found the J&J Ad-vector mRNA is still building anti-bodies when direct mRNA is tapering off, and lasts at least 8 months, which is why testing J&J at 21 or even 57 days was never going to align with direct mRNA.
We are in the middle of trials of new Boosters, and Delta specific Boosters are currently being designed from synthesis. People really need to stop with assumptions and simpleton logic.
It's not hard to spend 4 hours learning the basics of all this. It's out there. People have spent 40+ hours trolling the boards instead of sending those 4 hours. That's what is really sad.
But I'll keep trying to share articles from experts as much as I can.
Not that this matters one bit, but I appreciate you.
