Is anybody here opposed to this piece of legislation? I find it strange that there are people out there that want adults talking to 5 year olds about sex and keeping it secret from the child's parent.
Dont Say Gay bill in Florida
- Thread starter Crazyhole
- Start date
I don't see any reason for the schools to teach on this subject in elementary schools. Which is all the bill does.
The gov't screws enough up already in education without teaching gender equity to young kids.
The gov't screws enough up already in education without teaching gender equity to young kids.
The funny thing is ... the reason for this bill is because of 2 costly lawsuits. Why?
In both cases, the parents were extremely pro-LGBTQ+, and good relationships with the teachers, but ... the school administrations and their lawyers decided to cut off the parents entirely, and told the teachers to not tell the parents a ****ing thing.
That's why this bill came about. Like most things, it's adminsitrators, school districts and lawyers catering to special interest and liability concerns, instead of letting parents-teachers decide. This bill basically makes it illegal for school districts to cut parents out-of-the-loop when the parents are supportive.
Special groups are running the schools, even when the parents are open minded. Heck, in one case, the parents even engaged the teacher, thinking their student could be gay or even transgender, and that's how it started. Are schools purposely trying to push parents to home schooling?
This is literally the problem right now, and the "Don't Say Gay" law is pretty my been demonized to an extreme.
In both cases, the parents were extremely pro-LGBTQ+, and good relationships with the teachers, but ... the school administrations and their lawyers decided to cut off the parents entirely, and told the teachers to not tell the parents a ****ing thing.
That's why this bill came about. Like most things, it's adminsitrators, school districts and lawyers catering to special interest and liability concerns, instead of letting parents-teachers decide. This bill basically makes it illegal for school districts to cut parents out-of-the-loop when the parents are supportive.
Special groups are running the schools, even when the parents are open minded. Heck, in one case, the parents even engaged the teacher, thinking their student could be gay or even transgender, and that's how it started. Are schools purposely trying to push parents to home schooling?
This is literally the problem right now, and the "Don't Say Gay" law is pretty my been demonized to an extreme.
I would tell you he knows that, but it is Chemmie we are talking about.
Reading into this, some of it is understandable and well-intentioned. Like introducing the children to the concept of different familial structures and the fact that people have different body parts. Of course, they're all plans for progressive curriculum so the early innocuous concepts are readdressed and expanded into other concepts that are concerning.
The major issue that I have is that it is my job as a parent to have these discussions with my children and not a government or private educator taking it upon themselves to usurp or contradict what I teach my children about social and cultural norms. The government always, always, takes a blanket approach independent of what any specific child is ready for or needs. If they want to do something, encourage the parents to have the discussions and provide the parents with materials and support. Don't parent for us. Beyond that, the mental health of our children should be the purview of us and the mental health community, not the school system.
Some examples for context.
“This landmark study establishes once and for all that quality sex education that begins early, is developmentally appropriate and builds sequentially through middle and high school can improve young people’s physical, mental and emotional well-being,”
Experts: Sex Education Should Begin in Kindergarten
First-of-its-kind research shows sex education yields positive outcomes beyond STD and pregnancy prevention
www.montclair.edu
"Early childhood presents tremendous opportunities to build not only the academic skills that children will need, but also the emotional and social orientations. What if, rather than waiting until college to talk with young people about sexual consent, we built the foundations for consent in early childhood classrooms? What if, rather than waiting to address homophobic or transphobic bullying in middle schools, we helped young children explore and challenge gender stereotypes in preschool classrooms? These are opportunities we cannot afford to pass up."
Gender, Sexuality, and Family in Early Childhood Education - The Institute Blog
Gender and sexuality are often considered topics exclusively for adults, or at least for teens or pre-teens. But early childhood classrooms are rife with questions, interactions, and play that address and present opportunities to explore children’s and families’ ideas about bodies, identities...
earlychildhoodny.org
"Kids as young as 11 would get lectures on “vaginal, oral, and anal sex”; study “queer, two-spirit, asexual, pansexual” and other gender identities; and receive explicit instruction on the use of external and internal condoms, dental dams and other contraceptives."
NY lawmaker wants sex ed for kindergartners
Get ready for the latest woke wave in education: comprehensive sex ed for kids as young as 5 — thanks to a new bill in the state Senate. Legislation sponsored by state Sen. Samra G. Brouk, a …
nypost.com
From the Sample Kindergarten Lesson Plan: "You will notice that this lesson refers to “girls” and “boys” and “male” and “female” when identifying body parts. Lessons in higher grades use more precise language and begin to introduce a broader concept of gender. This lesson does, however, acknowledge that “there are some body parts that mostly just girls have and some parts that mostly just boys have. Being a boy or a girl doesn’t have to mean you have those parts, but for most people this is how their bodies are.” And, “Most people have a vulva and a vagina or a penis and testicles but some people’s bodies can be different. Your body is exactly what is right for you."
What is the purpose of it? Are teachers and school districts in Florida really teaching this stuff to 5 year olds?
Reading into this, some of it is understandable and well-intentioned. Like introducing the children to the concept of different familial structures and the fact that people have different body parts. Of course, they're all plans for progressive curriculum so the early innocuous concepts are readdressed and expanded into other concepts that are concerning.
The major issue that I have is that it is my job as a parent to have these discussions with my children and not a government or private educator taking it upon themselves to usurp or contradict what I teach my children about social and cultural norms. The government always, always, takes a blanket approach independent of what any specific child is ready for or needs. If they want to do something, encourage the parents to have the discussions and provide the parents with materials and support. Don't parent for us. Beyond that, the mental health of our children should be the purview of us and the mental health community, not the school system.
Some examples for context.
“This landmark study establishes once and for all that quality sex education that begins early, is developmentally appropriate and builds sequentially through middle and high school can improve young people’s physical, mental and emotional well-being,”
Experts: Sex Education Should Begin in Kindergarten
First-of-its-kind research shows sex education yields positive outcomes beyond STD and pregnancy prevention
"Early childhood presents tremendous opportunities to build not only the academic skills that children will need, but also the emotional and social orientations. What if, rather than waiting until college to talk with young people about sexual consent, we built the foundations for consent in early childhood classrooms? What if, rather than waiting to address homophobic or transphobic bullying in middle schools, we helped young children explore and challenge gender stereotypes in preschool classrooms? These are opportunities we cannot afford to pass up."
Gender, Sexuality, and Family in Early Childhood Education - The Institute Blog
Gender and sexuality are often considered topics exclusively for adults, or at least for teens or pre-teens. But early childhood classrooms are rife with questions, interactions, and play that address and present opportunities to explore children’s and families’ ideas about bodies, identities...
"Kids as young as 11 would get lectures on “vaginal, oral, and anal sex”; study “queer, two-spirit, asexual, pansexual” and other gender identities; and receive explicit instruction on the use of external and internal condoms, dental dams and other contraceptives."
NY lawmaker wants sex ed for kindergartners
Get ready for the latest woke wave in education: comprehensive sex ed for kids as young as 5 — thanks to a new bill in the state Senate. Legislation sponsored by state Sen. Samra G. Brouk, a …
From the Sample Kindergarten Lesson Plan: "You will notice that this lesson refers to “girls” and “boys” and “male” and “female” when identifying body parts. Lessons in higher grades use more precise language and begin to introduce a broader concept of gender. This lesson does, however, acknowledge that “there are some body parts that mostly just girls have and some parts that mostly just boys have. Being a boy or a girl doesn’t have to mean you have those parts, but for most people this is how their bodies are.” And, “Most people have a vulva and a vagina or a penis and testicles but some people’s bodies can be different. Your body is exactly what is right for you."
With regards to what I have bolded (and not specific to this bill), but I dont understand where this idea has suddenly come from that schools can only teach what parents approve, and how does that work in reality? If you have 20 kids in a class room, you could very well have 20 different sets of parents wanting/not wanting their children to learn certain things, at which point, how is a teacher supposed to teach? Obviously a parent can teach their children what they want in private, but this is starting to feel like a lot more parents either need to homeschool, or send kids to a private school that only teaches what they want. So when you talk about social norms, I dont understand how that works. Social norms are basically just acceptable practices of how we go along in society, but if you dont like a certain norm, a teacher should stop teaching it, even though it is a common thing in society?
I dont think that is a school, and each parent brought their child to that, so that isnt what we are talking about.
The only sudden concept that has come up is that Government is not subject to we, the people. Absolutely the Government should not teach things that are not approved by the public. That's why government has transparency and accountability laws. That's why there is public attendance and comment at school board meetings and why school boards are elected positions. They are absolutely in service of the public.
The problem is that the schools have introduced new norms without public referendum and attempted to hide it from the public and silence any dissenting opinions. That is a big deal and why would you ever think that was ok?
LGTBQ+, trans, gender theory, and sexual eroticism are accepted in our society to some degree but they are not societal norms by any means and some of them don't even approach common in society.
And ... cut you out of the loop, entirely, no matter how 'open minded' you are, or even bring it to their attention.
These aren't exactly 'right wingers' bringing these lawsuits against the Florida school districts either. But the US Mass and Social Media doesn't want people to know that.
Nope, sorry, you the parent, and the teacher, only need to bring things to the government's attention, and leave it to them. You will not receive any information about your child except what they deem is necessary about your child.
This bill ends that.
Did you really just assume it's not happening?!
They can ... but the parents will be notified and involved. Same with discussing their child's orientation ... the parents will be notified and involved.
This includes when the parents initiate it, and want to work with a teacher. The parents will not be taken out-of-the-loop.
But where is all of this stuff being taught? I agree that 5 year olds shouldnt be learning about sex, but where is this happening? This has a CRT feel to it to me, where it is a solution without a problem.
This goes beyond school just citizens speaking up at school board meetings. This is a lot of moms for liberty stuff, and they are a political activist group, not your average parent going to a school board. If you remember the school board meeting in Williamson Co TN a few months ago that made national news because two guys were threatening parents. Neither of those guys had children and dont speak for parents, they were working for this political group. This whole thing is to make teachers and librarians public enemy # 1 (John Rich spoke in front of the TN state legislature and claimed school librarians in TN are pedophiles). The reason behind it is to get rid of public schools and create a charter school system so the Betsy Devos's of the world can make more money. A politician in Florida admitted to that just a few days ago.
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False. If it isnt happening then not only is it a waste of time on the tax payers dollar, it is to drum up the idea it is happening. This is all 100% about charter schools.
Parents can choose to opt-out or have their children stay at home. That's how this works.
Have you seen the statistics as of late?
And now ... you're starting to understand the 'voucher' argument. That if the taxpayer wants to fund 'institutionalization,' but parents are 'opting out' of that ... they -- who are not being a burden on the taxpayer, unlike other parents -- should at least get a 'partial tax credit' to have their child taught in another school.
So ... are you now for that too?!
You mean like taking a child out of a parent's purview ... and setting up that child with 3rd party groups and other 'special interest' ... without even informing the parent?
If you think this is just about what is 'taugh in the classroom,' you're grossly mistaken. This is about taking the parent out-of-the-loop in what they know their child is being taught.
We're not talking about cirriculum here. We're talking about special avenues to learning outside the cirriculum.
I sent you a number of examples where the topics and concepts of CRT were being taught in k-12 schools and you continue to make statements that it's not taught. Is this going to be similar?
Do you think that all of the parents are disrupting their schedules and lives to go comment at school board meetings because of something they saw on TV? That none of them are actually driven to comment because of what their kid is actually being exposed to in school?
Yes, I think this is almost entirely moms for liberty and conservative groups scaring parents and making teachers and librarians out to be the enemies of their children, and politicians are using it to push Hillsdale college charter schools (and charters in general) in various states. It isnt a coincidence that this has become a major Republican issue, right at the same time that Hillsdale College (Betsey Devos's college) is trying to start charter schools in various states across the country. THey are essentially trying to end public education, and the easiest way to do that is to make it so people think teachers and librarians are harming their children.
THe wife of the current Sec of Education in Florida, is a CEO of a charter school. What better way to make his wife money than to make public education out to be the enemy of your children. A lot of people are going to make a lot of money off these charter schools.
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Not teachers and librarians, but administrators and school districts.
In both of the lawsuits in Florida, it's not the teachers the parents were taking issues with. I also hope, if this goes to trial, the teacher gets on the stand and rips the state a new one.
Again, not teachers and librarians, but administrators and school districts.
That's like saying Bernie Sanders' wife, being the head of a private school run into the ground, is the same. Be careful where you aim that cannon.
Not true. Charters are basically the primary objective of our governor at this time, and they had several people speaking on this blaming it on librarians and teachers.
"What’s the difference between a teacher, educator or librarian putting one of these books which you have on the desk of a student, or a guy in a white van pulling up at the edge of school when school lets out and saying, "Come on around, kids, let me read you this book and show you these pictures"? What’s the difference in those two scenarios? There is a difference, by the way — they can run away from the guy in the white van."
That quote was from 2/28 in front of members of the Tennessee Legislature by John Rich, the guy who became famous by writing a song about having sex with cowboys instead of horses or whatever. He is literally comparing school librarians to people trying to pick up kids in vans.
Private schools dont accept public dollars, so no, it isnt like that at all.
Are we talking Florida? And this bill in Florida? Or Tennessee?
Huh?! Did you miss that whole episode or something ... where they do?!
This right here is why it's useless to even use logic with you. When we make a point, you just act like it's not applicable ... when it's totally applicable.
Even the 'voucher' system is 1:1 related to it!
It is happening in both states, and I am sure other GOP states. This was Betsy Devos's plan as the secretary of education. This isnt happening in a vacuum.
You cant use logic with me? We are talking about charter schools and public schools, and for some reason you brought up Jane Sanders and a private college in Vermont as some sort of gotcha, which isnt remotely close to what we are talking about. So I still have no clue what your point is comparing a private college, that doesnt take public money, with public and charter elem-high schools, that do take public money. They have nothing to do with each other.
Yep lets teach 5 to 7 year old kids that boys are boys, unless of course they are actually girls or one of the other 72 sexes, inspite of the fact that they are born what science says they are boys, and girls are girls, unless of course they are actually boys or one of the other 72 genders with everything nature gave them which is female.
Lets just raise them to ignore reality and live in a snowflake imaginary world where snowflakes are tough and don't melt.
Lets just raise them to ignore reality and live in a snowflake imaginary world where snowflakes are tough and don't melt.
The thing that scares me is how much 'attention' kids get when they are 'different.' So we have to question if someone only 5-7 years old is choosing what they want? Or the 'attention?'
I've just read so many horror stories of things kids regretted doing when they were young that could not be 'reversed' later.
Yes, I understand the argument of 'getting them before puberty' from a 'psychological' aspect. But physical changes are even more 'permanent.' There is no 'easy answer.'
But the state hardly ever knows better than a parent!
Teaching it in what way? Teaching about neo nazism? Or teaching students to be nazis? These are wildly different things. OBviously I dont think a teacher should teach kids to be nazis, but learning about nazis? Why would I have an issue with that? I learned about it and I am guessing you and everyone else on this board did as well.
Are you also trying to equate being gay with nazism? Nazis werent big fans of homosexuals, if you werent aware.
You have this completely opposite. Your side are the snow flakes and ignoring reality on this issue.
Are they teaching it to k-3 kids? Lot's of holocaust and hate group history being taught to little TImmy and Sally after naptime these days?
So you aren't in favor of a law banning the teaching of neo-nazi stuff to k-3?
SInce I highly doubt this is any sort of issue, I am not for big government and pointless laws, no. IF this is the route Republicans start wanting to go, to make pointless laws about everything, then maybe they need to end the charade that they are for small government.
Ok, so where does it end then? You can make this argument about thousands of different subjects. Should 1st graders be taught about killing animals and processing meat? Guess we will need a law for that too. Or what about child labor in foreign countries? They shouldnt learn about that? Then we will need another law. WHat about the history of the negro leagues? There is another law we will need, etc etc etc etc. At some point our lawmakers entire purpose will just be to write laws about what teachers cant teach kids, even though, the vast majority arent teaching it anyway. Useless and purposeless.
Generally speaking, I agree with you. But this is a libertarian approach which typically is pretty feckless. Guardrails are there to prevent someone from going off a bridge, so reasonable restrictions make sense to avoid catastrophe.
This is nothing but the GOP trying to scare people that liberals are going to harm their children. It is useless and pointless and just another drummed up GOP culture war. By the time this new type of education is complete ( religious based charters, restrictions on what can be taught, what books need to be banned,etc) we are going to have an entire generation of kids who are dumb and not ready to live in the actual world. I feel sorry for kids from GOP states who are good students and want to go to an elite school, Ivy League, Vandy, Duke, Stanford, etc, but because they will be so poorly educated they suck it up on their entrance exams and just simply arent prepared for serious studies.
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If school districts didn't make it a legal issue, then no bill/law would be written. Seriously.
This was caused by 2 lawsuits because the school district ****ed with the parent-teacher relationship that was working and fruitful. Why? Ask the school districts.
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