Election Chaos Thread

[Boosted87]

I need some Trump supporters to defend this. To me, this is a "quacks like a duck" problem. I think I'd rather have a POTUS being extorted by Putin to do things like this than one who does it purely from his own free will. The damage this narrative from Trump is doing to our political system far outweighs any propaganda operation Putin could wage.

Putin: Let's run a sophisticated information warfare campaign to convince Trump voters that the deep state and democrats are working to steal the election.
Trump: Hold my beer.

Let's stop for a moment and assume Trump is 100% correct. Doesn't change anything. It's kind of like how the Obama admin knew the extent of Russian interference in 2016 far better than the public did. But going public created the *risk* of undermining public confidence in elections and the risk that it would appear Obama was using the power of the office to put his thumb on the scale (by exposing damaging information on the other party). If this was 100% true, Trump's job is to fix it - not use it for a political sledge hammer.

 

[DaShuckster]

The damage this narrative from Trump is doing to our political system far outweighs any propaganda operation Putin could wage.

It's not just our political system. Trump has undermined everything about our government. When a sizable portion of the population indicates they won't get a vaccination for a life-threatening virus, the trust is so low we've essentially screwed ourselves.

 

[Boosted87]

Prediction:

There's a *very* good chance Trump is going to be winning as the polls close on election day. 538 did an analysis based on polling data regarding in-person vs mail-in voting. They concluded that it's reasonable Trump could win the day-of vote in EVERY single state, while Biden wins the mail-in vote in EVERY single state, while Biden goes on to win. That's crazy.

This means that on election night as the polls close, you could see a real-time map with almost the entire county red, Trump leading almost everywhere, including some very blue states. It could look like a landslide at 11:00pm.

Trump will be declaring victory and giving a victory speech. None of the networks will call the race, and Trump will use that as evidence the media and dems are conspiring to steal the election. He'll flat out tell his supporters that over the coming days and weeks, votes for Biden will keep magically appearing and they'll be trying to steal the election.

Teams of lawyers will be dispatched strategically to swing states in efforts to slow down and sew doubt regarding the mail in vote count. Don't underestimate the chaos this could lead to. There are deadlines. States have to certify electors. They have processes for that, but if things get tangled in the courts, who knows?

Gonna be crazy.

 

[Crazyhole]

Trump wants election security. Unsolicited ballots lead to a huge opportunity for voter fraud or lost ballots.

 

[hemightbejeremy]

50% of Trump tweets are simply gaslighting his base. He can’t afford to lose a single one of them.

 

[Crazyhole]

Prediction:

There's a *very* good chance Trump is going to be winning as the polls close on election day. 538 did an analysis based on polling data regarding in-person vs mail-in voting. They concluded that it's reasonable Trump could win the day-of vote in EVERY single state, while Biden wins the mail-in vote in EVERY single state, while Biden goes on to win. That's crazy.

This means that on election night as the polls close, you could see a real-time map with almost the entire county red, Trump leading almost everywhere, including some very blue states. It could look like a landslide at 11:00pm.

Trump will be declaring victory and giving a victory speech. None of the networks will call the race, and Trump will use that as evidence the media and dems are conspiring to steal the election. He'll flat out tell his supporters that over the coming days and weeks, votes for Biden will keep magically appearing and they'll be trying to steal the election.

Teams of lawyers will be dispatched strategically to swing states in efforts to slow down and sew doubt regarding the mail in vote count. Don't underestimate the chaos this could lead to. There are deadlines. States have to certify electors. They have processes for that, but if things get tangled in the courts, who knows?

Gonna be crazy.

Votes that are cast after the polls are closed should not count, period. If the USPS can't get the ballots in on time, that's on them.

 

[Boosted87]

Trump wants election security. Unsolicited ballots lead to a huge opportunity for voter fraud or lost ballots.

If Trump wanted election security, he would align himself with the views of the bipartisan senate reports on the subject. But we both know that.

I think it's reasonable to oppose sending out unsolicited ballots. But I also think it's reasonable to oppose purely electronic voting that creates no paper trail. In either case, a candidate who uses a reasonable concern to cast doubt on the entire process is undermining democracy.

 

[Crazyhole]

If Trump wanted election security, he would align himself with the views of the bipartisan senate reports on the subject. But we both know that.

I think it's reasonable to oppose sending out unsolicited ballots. But I also think it's reasonable to oppose purely electronic voting that creates no paper trail. In either case, a candidate who uses a reasonable concern to cast doubt on the entire process is undermining democracy.

He's being honest about the potential dangers we are looking at. Its up to the states to certify their elections so Trump really can't affect anything of consequence other than encouraging people to hold their state governments accountable for how they do it.

 

[Cubs79]

Votes that are cast after the polls are closed should not count, period. If the USPS can't get the ballots in on time, that's on them.

Well, it would be on the Trump appointed postmaster general, who is pretty openly trying to make sure this happens.

 

[Crazyhole]

Well, it would be on the Trump appointed postmaster general, who is pretty openly trying to make sure this happens.

Then people who want their vote to count should vote in person. Simple solution.

 

[Cubs79]

Then people who want their vote to count should vote in person. Simple solution.

Or we could hold our Post Master general accountable since he is payed with tax payer dollars, and the people could choose how they voted.

 

[Crazyhole]

Or we could hold our Post Master general accountable since he is payed with tax payer dollars, and the people could choose how they voted.

Go vote in person and elect someone that will replace him. Very simple.

 

[Boosted87]

Votes that are cast after the polls are closed should not count, period. If the USPS can't get the ballots in on time, that's on them.

You're conflating things bigly here. The question isn't over when the votes are received, it's when they are counted. Some jurisdictions start counting the mail in votes ahead of times. Others are, by law, not allowed to start counting until the polls closed. Some places let you open and certify signatures, but not count.

 

[Cubs79]

Go vote in person and elect someone that will replace him. Very simple.

Or we could let people choose how they vote, which many states have been doing for years now anyway, and we should expect the USPS to be able to handle it pretty easily.

 

[Cubs79]

You're conflating things bigly here. The question isn't over when the votes are received, it's when they are counted. Some jurisdictions start counting the mail in votes ahead of times. Others are, by law, not allowed to start counting until the polls closed. Some places let you open and certify signatures, but not count.

There is no way the election is decided on election night, so it will certainly be an interesting few weeks/months after the election. I have a feeling November is going to be an ugly time in the US.

 

[firm_bizzle]

The entire election will be rigged. I will be in the streets with Home Depot tiki torches on November 4th.

 

[Crazyhole]

You're conflating things bigly here. The question isn't over when the votes are received, it's when they are counted. Some jurisdictions start counting the mail in votes ahead of times. Others are, by law, not allowed to start counting until the polls closed. Some places let you open and certify signatures, but not count.

Thats fine. Just as long as they keep the mail in ballots limited to receipt by November 3rd and don't separate the ballot from the signature, it shouldn't be a problem. Might take a couple of days to weed out the ones that are fraudulent, but thats no big deal and will give us a good idea of how dangerous mail-in voting is.

 

[sk8knight]

I think we've seen enough evidence from primaries and special elections that it is reasonable to assume that there will be a lot of confusion on election day and there will be ballots counted well after election day. There's a feeling among Republicans that, historically, races that are recounted or have delinquent found ballots always gain Democrat votes. This is the foundation for a lot of worry. Add in the Red Mirage construct from Bloomberg and it's not hard to see why Republicans would be weary of the entire process right now.

If you're in the camp that thinks there is a more driven underlying motive to all of this than Dem - Rep, it sure does look like all of our institutions are being attacked. The election system is just another one of them. There are very real security issues with absentee voting. The risk of mistakes and fraud swinging an election are minimal when the percentage of absentee ballots is small. When the majority of the election is absentee, that strongly increases the chances for those security holes to be exploited. It's not unreasonable to be concerned about it. But like all of the other institutional attacks, we've deployed into our trenches and can't even meet at the common ground that there are security holes while Democrats gaslight that the voting is perfectly safe and Republicans throw the corruptions label around. Add in the Trump-Russia false flag again and you've ensured that division will be the order. So the real question is, who benefits?

 

[sk8knight]

The entire election will be rigged. I will be in the streets with Home Depot tiki torches on November 4th.

I will be across the street from you with Lowe's tiki torches. Wait, those are blue and Home Depot is close to red. We'll need to switch. Wouldn't want to be mistaken for being on the wrong team.

 

[sk8knight]

Thats fine. Just as long as they keep the mail in ballots limited to receipt by November 3rd and don't separate the ballot from the signature, it shouldn't be a problem. Might take a couple of days to weed out the ones that are fraudulent, but thats no big deal and will give us a good idea of how dangerous mail-in voting is.

By received, I'm assuming you mean postmarked?

 

[Crazyhole]

By received, I'm assuming you mean postmarked?

No. Received at the polling place.

 

[Cubs79]

No. Received at the polling place.

Which is ridiculous.

 

[Crazyhole]

Which is ridiculous.

Then set a cutoff date thats practical.

 

[Cubs79]

Then set a cutoff date thats practical.

A postmarked date is practical, your way is for no other reason than to discard votes that were cast legitimately.

 

[Crazyhole]

A postmarked date is practical, your way is for no other reason than to discard votes that were cast legitimately.

The states have to certify the vote at some point. Just set a date that they have to do that by. Vote counting can't go on in perpetuity, it has to end eventually.

 

[sk8knight]

The states have to certify the vote at some point. Just set a date that they have to do that by. Vote counting can't go on in perpetuity, it has to end eventually.

I agree with both of these. Eligible votes must be postmarked by 11/4. States must count votes by 11/11. Electoral college votes on 11/12.

 

[firm_bizzle]

I will be across the street from you with Lowe's tiki torches. Wait, those are blue and Home Depot is close to red. We'll need to switch. Wouldn't want to be mistaken for being on the wrong team.

Good point! Bring a cooler and ice, I'll bring beer.

 

[Boosted87]

He's being honest about the potential dangers we are looking at. Its up to the states to certify their elections so Trump really can't affect anything of consequence other than encouraging people to hold their state governments accountable for how they do it.

Trump's ability to directly impact the vote count is severely limited. But his ability to damage public confidence in the vote count is nearly unlimited.

We would almost all rationalize pretty extreme steps to stop a real election fraud from happening. Most of us would sign off on Jack Bauer like extremes to save the country from someone willing to literally steal an election. There's an ends-justifies-the-means process that is pretty reasonable.

Which is why it's so dangerous for Trump to convince his base that election theft is occurring. If you truly believe that a deep state cabal is fixing the election for Joe Biden, then you believe they are traitors. If you believe traitors are picking the next POTUS, you'll rationalize Jack Bauer like extremes to stop that from happening. If you believe the election was stolen from Trump, then you're OK with POTUS doing technically illegal things to reverse the outcome.

That's what Trump is doing. He's not calmly pointing out potential weaknesses in our system, while working diligently to safeguard its integrity. He's creating a pre-text to justify his loss and give him cover with his base towards whatever extreme actions he may end up taking.

Ironically, by doing this publicly, he creates a strong pre-text for extreme actions on the other side as well. If you truly believe POTUS is willing to undermine confidence in democracy for his own benefit, you'll start rationalizing Jack Bauer like counter-operations.

This is going to be nasty. From both sides.

 

[hemightbejeremy]

Unless there is an orchestrated scheme to slow down the mail, it is unlikely to effect the receipt of ballots to a large degree. Probably less than 1% of ballots would be significantly delayed or lost so that the votes “aren’t counted”. A much higher percentage of votes will be not counted due to administrative issues that could be validated and corrected real time if voting in person. No such validation occurs for mail in ballots. So while mail in ballots are less reliable than in person, it isn’t due to voter mail fraud as Republicans would have you believe or lost in the mail as Democrats would have you believe. It’s generally because of honest mistakes that have no opportunity to be corrected.

 

[Crazyhole]

I agree with both of these. Eligible votes must be postmarked by 11/4. States must count votes by 11/11. Electoral college votes on 11/12.

So what do you do with prepaid mail? They don't get a postmark.

 

[Crazyhole]

Trump's ability to directly impact the vote count is severely limited. But his ability to damage public confidence in the vote count is nearly unlimited.

We would almost all rationalize pretty extreme steps to stop a real election fraud from happening. Most of us would sign off on Jack Bauer like extremes to save the country from someone willing to literally steal an election. There's an ends-justifies-the-means process that is pretty reasonable.

Which is why it's so dangerous for Trump to convince his base that election theft is occurring. If you truly believe that a deep state cabal is fixing the election for Joe Biden, then you believe they are traitors. If you believe traitors are picking the next POTUS, you'll rationalize Jack Bauer like extremes to stop that from happening. If you believe the election was stolen from Trump, then you're OK with POTUS doing technically illegal things to reverse the outcome.

That's what Trump is doing. He's not calmly pointing out potential weaknesses in our system, while working diligently to safeguard its integrity. He's creating a pre-text to justify his loss and give him cover with his base towards whatever extreme actions he may end up taking.

Ironically, by doing this publicly, he creates a strong pre-text for extreme actions on the other side as well. If you truly believe POTUS is willing to undermine confidence in democracy for his own benefit, you'll start rationalizing Jack Bauer like counter-operations.

This is going to be nasty. From both sides.

Thats going to happen regardless unless its a landslide victory. Either way, each state has to certify their vote 6 days prior to the date they choose electors so the challenges won't last more than a month. We will know by no later than the middle of December who has won.

 

[Cubs79]

The states have to certify the vote at some point. Just set a date that they have to do that by. Vote counting can't go on in perpetuity, it has to end eventually.

No one is arguing it should, or will go on in perpetuity, just that it likely wont be completed on election night. Nobody is really arguing for anything different, but we realize that due to the pandemic there will likely be far more people who vote by mail, which will take longer to count.

 

[OLearyLastCall]

Go vote in person and elect someone that will replace him. Very simple.

When Trump votes in person, I'll vote in person.

 

[Crazyhole]

MoveOn, left-wing groups gear up for 'mass public unrest' after Election Day

An association of left-wing organizations is currently planning out strategies for what they believe would be a political dogfight should Joe Biden win November's election by a small margin.

www.foxnews.com

 

[sk8knight]

Good point! Bring a cooler and ice, I'll bring beer.

As long as it’s not High Life. I don’t know how anyone drinks that stuff.

 

[Boosted87]

Thats going to happen regardless unless its a landslide victory. Either way, each state has to certify their vote 6 days prior to the date they choose electors so the challenges won't last more than a month. We will know by no later than the middle of December who has won.

So how does it play out if it looks like a Trump landslide on election day, with 40+ states red based on the quickly counted in person and early votes, and Trump publicly claiming victory. He says democrats are now trying to rig the election with fraudulent votes. He correctly predicts he will be behind in a few days, saying it's all rigged.

Right wing media runs with the narrative. FB memes hard. Then sure enough, 7 days later Biden is declared the winner by the AP. To his base, Trump is prophet.

What happens in that moment if Trump says he won't recognize the results. He starts pressuring states with red legislatures not to certify Biden electors. The base of said red legislature are blowing up their phones screaming fraud and siding with Trump.

There are countless bad scenarios here, but they all have one thing in common. Trump's willingness to undermine our electoral system with no concern for the consequences.

 

[Boosted87]

MoveOn, left-wing groups gear up for 'mass public unrest' after Election Day

An association of left-wing organizations is currently planning out strategies for what they believe would be a political dogfight should Joe Biden win November's election by a small margin.

www.foxnews.com

I think we're going to have massive issues no matter who wins hence the title of this thread. Which is really my broader point. This chaos is a product of Trump. If this is Jeb! vs Biden, it's completely different.

 

[firm_bizzle]

As long as it’s not High Life. I don’t know how anyone drinks that stuff.

Right!

 

[firm_bizzle]

I think we're going to have massive issues no matter who wins hence the title of this thread. Which is really my broader point. This chaos is a product of Trump. If this is Jeb! vs Biden, it's completely different.

Exactly. Trump is a chaos and divisive person whose behavior is unacceptable for public office. If it were Jeb vs Biden, I would be voting for Jeb.

 

[Crazyhole]

I think we're going to have massive issues no matter who wins hence the title of this thread. Which is really my broader point. This chaos is a product of Trump. If this is Jeb! vs Biden, it's completely different.

I guess we will see. It could end up being a good outcome just as easily as it could be a bad one. Regardless, we know that if trump wins there will be an uprising, but that isn't his fault. As long as they keep the rioting out of my town, it doesn't really affect me.