I was as glad to see Heupel go as anyone. But now he seems to be getting good, maybe not outstanding, but good reviews from sportswriters and TV talkers. Did he give up on UCF? Was it a sore spot that he didn't have his own defensive staff? From watching from the stands, I got the feeling many players didn't support him, even before the pandemic season. So has Heupel changed at UT? The Vols seem to be responding positively to him.
Has Heupel changed
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I think it’s a mixture of the defensive dynamic that took place here. When DW hired Randy Shannon too, it seems it also had the adverse effect of dividing the locker room.
The other component of this is who Heupel has taken over for. UT is down in the dumps. Pruitt wasn’t liked. Any change, especially to an offensive system would be viewed positively. But here, Heup had the unenviable job of taking over an undefeated team for a coach in Frost that just seemed to fit amazingly here and was beloved. Hard to succeed with that and keep everyone happy.
He hasn’t changed. His offense is pretty effective. At UT, the defense is better than what he had here. Hell with a semi competent defense last year we are probably 8-1 and in the CCG. The Shannon/Heupel dynamic was a weird one so it’s hard to know exactly how much control he was allowed of the team vs just the offensive side of the ball here.
I feel JH really changed once KZ was out. He was smart when he arrived and kept some of the Frost stuff that the team liked to run. The offense was still big time. Once KZ was done, all bets were off and JH was able to go back to his offense. DG is smart and talented enough to run more complex offenses but it was really frustrating to watch opposing DCs make adjustments and JH have no answer. Using AK as a power back, the endless and senseless deep balls, the 3 and outs. There's no question that his offense can put up the numbers, last year I think it was 560 yds/gm, the highest in the three years he was here. The question is can he win as the HC? I love exciting offenses but I'll take fewer stats and more dubs all day.
I hated him day one, because I was sour about Frost and he just looked like a lumpy doofus. But I warmed up to the "1 and 0" mantra as the wins kept coming. His inability to recruit in Florida was a major issue as well. IIRC being IN Florida, getting recruiting done by driving, was one of the reasons Frost liked "this place". JH still wanted his mid-western and southern boys.
I hated him day one, because I was sour about Frost and he just looked like a lumpy doofus. But I warmed up to the "1 and 0" mantra as the wins kept coming. His inability to recruit in Florida was a major issue as well. IIRC being IN Florida, getting recruiting done by driving, was one of the reasons Frost liked "this place". JH still wanted his mid-western and southern boys.
How do you feel about less stats and less dubs?
Sports writers and TV talkers are slightly more knowledgeable about football as the people on this board are. They are just surprised UT isn’t getting blown out every game. Let’s see how they do with their remaining gauntlet of games
Last I recall Gus didn't take over a NY6 bowl-winning, National Championship team. Gus may still end up being complete garbage, everything the Auburn boosters said he was, and set us back another decade. That could absolutely happen. But, he could also end up staying until his retirement, building something foundational for the next level, and being the greatest coach in our program's history. The fact is we just don't know yet, and time will tell.
I would hope and assume that would correlate with an increase in stats.
Last I recall Gus didn't take over a NY6 bowl-winning, National Championship team. Gus may still end up being complete garbage, everything the Auburn boosters said he was, and set us back another decade. That could absolutely happen. But, he could also end up staying until his retirement, building something foundational for the next level, and being the greatest coach in our program's history. The fact is we just don't know yet, and time will tell.
Heupel had his issues, that being said the majority of the issue was the defense and it was Danny White that created that situation.
Malzahn has shown issues/decisions that can be seen as early warning signs of the future. Maybe that doesn't hold true, but if it doesn't work out, it will have been evident from the get go.
Malzahn has shown issues/decisions that can be seen as early warning signs of the future. Maybe that doesn't hold true, but if it doesn't work out, it will have been evident from the get go.
He took over for a guy that had 8 losses combined in 3 years. He had 3 different starting QBs in those 3 years. Logically you’d like a “better” coach to not get 7 losses in one season. Obviously he won’t be defined from this one season but it’s not starting out very well. I think Mack wasn’t great but he did better under Heupel than Keene under Gus. Keene has to start throwing for 300+ against the remaining defenses. 200 passing yards in a spread is not going to cut it.
Last I recall Gus didn't take over a NY6 bowl-winning, National Championship team. Gus may still end up being complete garbage, everything the Auburn boosters said he was, and set us back another decade. That could absolutely happen. But, he could also end up staying until his retirement, building something foundational for the next level, and being the greatest coach in our program's history. The fact is we just don't know yet, and time will tell.
was an early Heupel critic and always thought he was a bad fit here but I thought he would eventually end up at some Mountain West school
another thing about Heupel is it seemed like he didn’t like being here and had no enthusiasm for the job and most of his staff was the same. And High School coaches didn’t like his tactics
another thing about Heupel is it seemed like he didn’t like being here and had no enthusiasm for the job and most of his staff was the same. And High School coaches didn’t like his tactics
I think he was a poor personality fit to be a big time head coach. He had teams that were right in games here against the top teams and he couldn’t inspire past the finish line. Players would run through a wall for Frost. I think Heupel is a good offensive mind but it takes more to be a successful coach. Gus seems he can inspire, but the Xs and Os need to come together.
Has the sidelines been showing that excitement amongst the players this year? It was evident with Heupel that the sidelines were devoid of excitement.
The '18 team, which I don't think anyone would doubt was the very best team JH had at UCF, had the lowest overall Total offense of his three years here.
Gus took over a downward trending program. Who knows what the future holds but that '18 team will probably go down as one of the best JH ever has in his career, if not the best. Mack also had a supporting cast of UCF legends around him. This team is just trying to do what they can with what they were handed with the injuries. Keene did not cost us Navy. Keene was never going to beat Cincy. He did enough to beat ECU. I just don't see armageddon as some others do.
there are a few worrying signs w Gus but at least I know he won’t be lazy on the recruiting trail
Heupel changed everything by year 3. The offense was run run, pass, punt with no creative play calling. He abandoned the winning FROST system. Defense was getting worse every year until Shannon's guys were giving up 600 to over 700 YPG. That's sickening. Losing DG made gus' job 200% harder (although I see some coaching problems and Gus started with the Team in Feb 2021). Did Heup learn from his mistakes at UCF..yes. He's coaching SEC level players now (but we have to wait and see). Almost the same thing with Gus....wait and see. BUT PLEASE GUS GET THE DARN SPECIAL TEAMS TOGETHER!!!! Do something about special teams,,,,fire the coach, try something different, let 2nd and 3 stringers in, make some voodoo dolls, try.....something! 
Could be. Could also be that 2018 schedule had no great teams on it. Road game at UNC cancelled due to hurricane. Memphis breaking in new QB was not as good. We missed Houston in the CCG because they tanked after King went down. Cows had began to decline. Cincy was the only great team and they weren’t yet as good as they have been the past 3 years (Ridder was a freshman). It was a dream schedule for going undefeated.
His (lack of) recruiting caught up with us.
Watch the next two seasons and see if there is a drop off as other teams become use to seeing his offense.
The defense he stepped into is better than ours was.
Watch the next two seasons and see if there is a drop off as other teams become use to seeing his offense.
The defense he stepped into is better than ours was.
He was SEC before - was that what happened at Mizzou? My impression was they did well versus the lower half of the league and poorly against the upper half. Not sure how that developed over time.
When you get to do something for the 2nd time, you'll always be different. Something changed with Heupel between 2018 &2019.
It’s difficult to assess because if Heup was handcuffed by DW with the Shannon hire (and unable to fire him) why would he then follow DW to Tennessee and potentially end up in the same frustrating situation. He hired a Penn State guy as his DC at Tennessee. Seems he had the autonomy to do so, which makes you more inclined to think he thought Shannon was doing a good job (or good enough).
In the end he got his opportunity at UCF and did some really good things in 2018 and 2019 (playing with a true freshman QB). I do think beyond coaching he was somehow losing the locker room and that is why we sank in 2020 and have issues this season. Gus was the right option at the time. We need some consistency with our staff to really grow players into one system.
I guess we’ll see how it all works out.
In the end he got his opportunity at UCF and did some really good things in 2018 and 2019 (playing with a true freshman QB). I do think beyond coaching he was somehow losing the locker room and that is why we sank in 2020 and have issues this season. Gus was the right option at the time. We need some consistency with our staff to really grow players into one system.
I guess we’ll see how it all works out.
It's more likely Heupel was handcuffed in UCF and not at Tenn. The whole situation was bizarre, and it didn't work out. My guess is Danny White realized it was a bad move and also knew it would get a lot of complaints from a very vocal established booster base at Tenn (Golf Balls and all).
The money available should be considered too. We weren’t paying some of Randy’s salary in the first couple Of years, right? May have been more of a business decision than a Football one.
Some puzzling play call decisions but we would literally get that with anyone. But when I look at our recruiting page and see a 4 star commit and the rest solid three star guys…I’m more inclined see how this plays out in 2-3 years.
nah ask any recruiting nerd and Heupel was bringing in worse quality on paper compared to Frost and what Gus probably brings in . Former 247 mod was sounding the alarm on Heupel
DW picked Randy but that doesn’t mean it’s easy to just cut him loose. There are buyouts to consider and really his worst year was the last year. I don’t necessarily think the first 2 years warranted a firing.
I think a couple of the 4 classes were solid (though behind Cincy). But the 2018 class was a disaster.
TN Tech, Missouri, Florida, South Carolina, Ole MIss.
Beat the teams he was supposed too and lost to the teams he was supposed too. They have Alabama, Kentucky and Georgia next. I don't see them winning any of those games. South Alabama and Vandy are probably wins, so 6-6 is my bet. For Tenesseee that ain't bad. but let's wait until he has to play with his recruits.
Beat the teams he was supposed too and lost to the teams he was supposed too. They have Alabama, Kentucky and Georgia next. I don't see them winning any of those games. South Alabama and Vandy are probably wins, so 6-6 is my bet. For Tenesseee that ain't bad. but let's wait until he has to play with his recruits.
I know. I think you misread my post. I was talking about our current class under Gus. I can overlook some of Gus’s questionable calls this season as long as the recruiting class pans out like it’s projecting.
Yeah, it's a little unfair to say Gus took over a winning program from Heupel because Heup only lost 8 games in 3 years and just leave it at that. It was absolutely trending downward. The 2018 one-loss team had KZ as the starting QB most of the season and a Frost/GOL roster. The 2019 team was 10-3 and last year was 6-4 with one of the worst defenses in the country. Then they lost most of the team's playmakers to the NFL. What Gus inherited was a team on a downslide. Having said that, without the insane amount of injuries, this team would likely be 5-1.
For me it would be;
1. Special Teams - Two blocks allowed, directly costing us 1 point, and gifting Navy 7 on the scoreboard. We lost by 4.
2. Defense - Could not stop the triple option consistently. Allowed scores (3 TDs 1 FG) in half of their possessions. 406 yards allowed, the most for Navy this season.
3. Offense - Ineffective and inefficient. 2 - 10 on 3rd Downs.
Keene's lone interception came at the very end. Absolutely far from a great game, he was sub-par, but he was not the sole reason we took an L in Annapolis. We were up 13 in the 3rd.
They still had to win each and every one of them, and they did. I don't know about you, could just be me, but I think with a healthy KZ we handily beat LSU and we're talking about extremely rarified air with back-to-back undefeated seasons. Everyone had us circled on their schedule because they wanted to be the team to break the streak and shut us up. We were every teams' SuperBowl that season.
