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If B12 Expands this Year, We're Out

knight-cachers said:
See this is the issue with everyone's thought process here. Everyone seems to think we are the only choice or the best choice for expansion. We are on a short list of viable candidates but we aren't the only choice and we aren't nessicarily the best choice. Realistically we are probably 3rd or 4th on the list. Having continued success on the field is very important for us to stand out on the short list. Are we so arrogant to think that the Big12 want s us so bad it would just "wait a year so we can rebound"? If they wanted us that bad they would have already invited us. There are other programs out there they could invite without thinking twice.
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Agree. They know we have the TV market etc, but can we compete? Or will we be the whipping post of the conference. There is NO WAY that this pitiful embarrassing season is helping. If anything...it's hurting. It's not even bad....it's downright embarrassing and degrading.
 
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knight-cachers said:
See this is the issue with everyone's thought process here. Everyone seems to think we are the only choice or the best choice for expansion. We are on a short list of viable candidates but we aren't the only choice and we aren't nessicarily the best choice. Realistically we are probably 3rd or 4th on the list. Having continued success on the field is very important for us to stand out on the short list. Are we so arrogant to think that the Big12 want s us so bad it would just "wait a year so we can rebound"? If they wanted us that bad they would have already invited us. There are other programs out there they could invite without thinking twice.
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I agree--The belief that they would give us a year to "rebound" is laughable.
 
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firm_bizzle said:
Most of the huggers forgot that the last time this program was down we missed our opportunity at the Big East.
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As usual, you ASS-ume... and are wrong. The Big East was about basketball when we missed our chance and everyone knows where our program was then (and kind of still is).

As for the Big12, we won the Fiesta Bowl and the B12 stated no available school brought anything benefit to the conference. Thus, it isn't about winning games. We won back to back AAC championships and the B12 was not interested. Not even Boise St was an option and look at their sports success.

TV sets are the major driving factor as has always been stated. Networks aren't willing to pay enough for us. B12 schools have repeatedly stated they will not take a pay cut to bring in a school. Yes, I understand the whole money matching clause in the contract. But what happens when that contract runs out?

Endowment (ours sucks) and education (ours is nothing spectacular) are major driving factors also.
 
EngAlum98 said:
As usual, you ASS-ume... and are wrong. The Big East was about basketball when we missed our chance and everyone knows where our program was then (and kind of still is).

As for the Big12, we won the Fiesta Bowl and the B12 stated no available school brought anything benefit to the conference. Thus, it isn't about winning games. We won back to back AAC championships and the B12 was not interested. Not even Boise St was an option and look at their sports success.

TV sets are the major driving factor as has always been stated. Networks aren't willing to pay enough for us. B12 schools have repeatedly stated they will not take a pay cut to bring in a school. Yes, I understand the whole money matching clause in the contract. But what happens when that contract runs out?

Endowment (ours sucks) and education (ours is nothing spectacular) are major driving factors also.
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You would be short-sighted and wrong. Being relevant helps. What do you think the cash cow to any athletic department is?
 
firm_bizzle said:
You would be short-sighted and wrong. Being relevant helps. What do you think the cash cow to any athletic department is?
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To the Big East, the cash cow was basketball TV revenue. To the Big12, it is mostly football TV revenue with a little basketball TV revenue.... neither of which UCF had (BE) or has (B12).
 
Square Knight said:
We are not out of contention for the B12, even with a 0 win season. UCF has too many things in our favor to drop us after one bad year. The B12 is not in a position where they MUST expand, so if they want to expand and get a program with all of our advantages, one option would be to just delay the expansion a year and give us a chance to rebound even a little
.
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If we go 0-12 then USF starts to look a lot sexier
 
EngAlum98 said:
To the Big East, the cash cow was basketball TV revenue. To the Big12, it is mostly football TV revenue with a little basketball TV revenue.... neither of which UCF had (BE) or has (B12).
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If the cash cow was producing in football at the turn of the century do you think that we would be playing in a high school gym then? One impacts the other. Football is the cash cow.
 
firm_bizzle said:
If the cash cow was producing in football at the turn of the century do you think that we would be playing in a high school gym then? One impacts the other. Football is the cash cow.
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Back to your original statement about our missed Big East chances, Football had ZERO to do with our missed opportunities. Basketball ruled the Big East. PERIOD! This is well documented and is why USF got the nod over us. They were years ahead of us in BBall. The Genshaft years followed afterward to keeping us out when the Football schools wanted to improve their footing before departing. Then, the BBall-only schools were losing control of the conference to football revenue schools, so they split.
 
firm_bizzle said:
If the cash cow was producing in football at the turn of the century do you think that we would be playing in a high school gym then? One impacts the other. Football is the cash cow.
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Our problem was a short sighted AD who did not invest in either program. Once Orisini got here he gave UCF the big school mentality. We borrowed out the yahoo to get the facilities we currently have. IT had nothing to do with football revenue. USF got the nod for the BE because they had better basketball and better basketball facilities. They also were known to many of the schools because of their CUSA affiliation. If you recall UCF was going to accept a football only membership until the basketball schools put their foot down and crushed that.

All this goes back much further to when UCF last had an AD that was also the football coach. When CUSA was forming UCF was in the discussions and then head football coach and AD Gene McDowell was quoted in saying they were not interested in CUSA, they wanted in the SEC or ACC. That was a huge error. When USF joined CUSA that was where their advantages started.
 
EngAlum98 said:
Back to your original statement about our missed Big East chances, Football had ZERO to do with our missed opportunities. Basketball ruled the Big East. PERIOD! This is well documented and is why USF got the nod over us. They were years ahead of us in BBall. The Genshaft years followed afterward to keeping us out when the Football schools wanted to improve their footing before departing. Then, the BBall-only schools were losing control of the conference to football revenue schools, so they split.
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They invested money in basketball, then football. We invested money in football. The plans for the arena were in place in the 90's. Football money would have built that arena and we would have been in front of USF at the time.
 
firm_bizzle said:
They invested money in basketball, then football. We invested money in football. The plans for the arena were in place in the 90's. Football money would have built that arena and we would have been in front of USF at the time.
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What football money? What are you talking about?
 
firm_bizzle said:
The money from being good at football.
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There is not much money from being good at football. There is money from being associated with a conference and all that goes with it. There was never going to be money for UCF football just from being good. We are not Notre Dame.
 
Knight_Classes_begin_7pm said:
Agree. They know we have the TV market etc, but can we compete? Or will we be the whipping post of the conference. There is NO WAY that this pitiful embarrassing season is helping. If anything...it's hurting. It's not even bad....it's downright embarrassing and degrading.
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Exactly. When we were running through this conference the last 2 seasons, along with the Fiesta Bowl win, the perception was we were too good to be in this conference so any expansion talk that looked at AAC programs we were an obvious choice. If we are no longer dominating the conference like we aren't this year, that perception disappears pretty quickly. All of a sudden the other commonly referenced expansion candidates from the AAC like Cincinnati, Memphis, Houston look a lot better and it is not as obvious anymore. Now we have the TV market, the potential alumni size, some recent success, and all the other things we always mention still working for us over the other AAC choices but being winless definitely hurts especially when you figure any AAC school is probably 3rd in the list of expansion candidates behind BYU and Boise State
 
and before people come on here and go "omg, BYU and Boise State are in terrible TV markets" you have to remember that it doesn't matter for them, they are both national brands. UCF is not yet. People outside of the Idaho and Utah markets, outside of the Boise and BYU fanbases will tune in to see them play. No one outside of central florida who isn't a UCF fan is flipping through the channel guide and saying, "hmmm UCFvsTulane? that sounds like an exciting game to watch."

BYU and Boise both have histories of being successful and also being exciting and flashy doing it. Casual fans think that they are going to see half back passes and statue of liberty plays when they watch Boise. This year especially the casual fan think they are going to see exciting hail mary finishes when they tune into a BYU game. The casual fan is not clamoring to watch OLeary's standard 3 yards and a cloud of dust offense when we are winning, let alone now that we aren't. That's why it is vital that we kept winning because winning, even if we are boring when we did it, at least kept us in the conversation. Not winning and be boring doing it means we are irrelevant comparatively.
 
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SCKnight said:
There is not much money from being good at football. There is money from being associated with a conference and all that goes with it. There was never going to be money for UCF football just from being good. We are not Notre Dame.
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Boise says hello.
 
I think we need more bench clearing brawls and nut punches to bring in the BYU national audience.
 
firm_bizzle said:
Boise says hello.
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Yes they say hello and send money because we are making a pittance .

Also what does Boise in the year 2000 say? They say we are in a small conference and not making much money. Fast forward to 2015 and what do they say? After a successful run and multiple top 25 finishes and BCS bowls we are still in a small conference and we do not make much money. Good thing those wins mean so much to the conferences.
 
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knight-cachers said:
When we were running through this conference the last 2 seasons, along with the Fiesta Bowl win, the perception was we were too good to be in this conference so any expansion talk that looked at AAC programs we were an obvious choice.
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I highly doubt that. We had one good year that came to an end the day the Penn State kicker hit that FG in the last seconds in Ireland. Otherwise we are 7-21 against the P5 conference with three of those wins as an actual non AQ conference. We are far from being too good be in our current conferences. TCU and Utah were probably too good for their conference. We were mostly the better in an otherwise bad conference.
 
SCKnight said:
Yes they say hello and send money because we are making a pittance .

Also what does Boise in the year 2000 say? They say we are in a small conference and not making much money. Fast forward to 2015 and what do they say? After a successful run and multiple top 25 finishes and BCS bowls we are still in a small conference and we do not make much money. Good thing those wins mean so much to the conferences.
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Drops mic
 
Mr. Knightman said:
Temple was kicked from the Big East because...they sucked. Yes, winning games matters.

0-12 will matter too and it will create an apathetic fan-base and hurt attendance numbers.
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I don't think any is arguing that losing hurts all around. I think people are chicken littles. They run around screaming about the end is near.
 
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SCKnight said:
I don't think any is arguing that losing hurts all around. I think people are chicken littles. They run around screaming about the end is near.
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That's because they staring at Key's end, ready to f' him over.

I'll give him most of the season before I f' him over. The guy has been dealt a really bad hand this season. I'm wondering had he been promoted in 2013, if things would have been different.
 
EngAlum98 said:
As usual, you ASS-ume... and are wrong. The Big East was about basketball when we missed our chance and everyone knows where our program was then (and kind of still is).

As for the Big12, we won the Fiesta Bowl and the B12 stated no available school brought anything benefit to the conference. Thus, it isn't about winning games. We won back to back AAC championships and the B12 was not interested. Not even Boise St was an option and look at their sports success.

TV sets are the major driving factor as has always been stated. Networks aren't willing to pay enough for us. B12 schools have repeatedly stated they will not take a pay cut to bring in a school. Yes, I understand the whole money matching clause in the contract. But what happens when that contract runs out?

Endowment (ours sucks) and education (ours is nothing spectacular) are major driving factors also.
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Genius, we didn't bring any benefit to the conference because we don't have a huge following which correlates with how many games we win. Nobody follows a loser and one season doesn't create a sizable following either. Dream on that expansion has nothing to do with winning.
 
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UCFBS said:
That's because they staring at Key's end, ready to f' him over.

I'll give him most of the season before I f' him over. The guy has been dealt a really bad hand this season. I'm wondering had he been promoted in 2013, if things would have been different.
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Being groomed as future head coach is being dealt a bad hand? Sounds like a great opportunity. More excuses.
 
SCKnight said:
Yes they say hello and send money because we are making a pittance .

Also what does Boise in the year 2000 say? They say we are in a small conference and not making much money. Fast forward to 2015 and what do they say? After a successful run and multiple top 25 finishes and BCS bowls we are still in a small conference and we do not make much money. Good thing those wins mean so much to the conferences.
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There is so much fail in this. You conveniently leave out market, academics and enrollment which we have. We just don't have consistentcy. That's what we are asking for. There is a lot of money to be made when you are good at football in a good market.
 
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firm_bizzle said:
There is so much fail in this. You conveniently leave out market, academics and enrollment which we have. We just don't have consistentcy. That's what we are asking for. There is a lot of money to be made when you are good at football in a good market.
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There is so much fail in your statement. You change your angle almost every post. I point out that Boise does not make money from winning and is not in the spotlight for realignment just by winning. You have no response to that because it is true. So you try to spin that statement by bringing in market and academics and enrollment which has nothing to do with the fact that winning does not bring monetary success. You don't want consistency you want consistently #1. You want perfection every year because you bitch about every loss GOL no matter how successful the year is.

Very few programs can ever achieve success without a down year or two.
 
Wait, do people really think on the field success is the driving force behind expansion? Oh, how quaint, bless all of your hearts.
 
SCKnight said:
There is not much money from being good at football. There is money from being associated with a conference and all that goes with it. There was never going to be money for UCF football just from being good. We are not Notre Dame.
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I am going to disagree with your statement that "Not much money comes from being good in football". Tell that to the ticket office and the season ticket sale folks. Clothing sales go way up, game attendance goes up, season ticket holders increase, concessions go up, recruiting goes up, attendance goes up. So how can you say that?
 
SCKnight said:
There is so much fail in your statement. You change your angle almost every post. I point out that Boise does not make money from winning and is not in the spotlight for realignment just by winning. You have no response to that because it is true. So you try to spin that statement by bringing in market and academics and enrollment which has nothing to do with the fact that winning does not bring monetary success. You don't want consistency you want consistently #1. You want perfection every year because you bitch about every loss GOL no matter how successful the year is.

Very few programs can ever achieve success without a down year or two.
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You won't admit that winning in a big market brings big money. Yes Boise does make money, more money than teams in similiar size markets that are losing.
 
UCF08 said:
Wait, do people really think on the field success is the driving force behind expansion? Oh, how quaint, bless all of your hearts.
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If the Big12 expands soon, it will come on the heels of them being snubbed by the playoff committee again. Do you think adding a 10+ loss team accomplishes the goal of increasing their perceived strength? If Houston and Memphis finish the year with 9+ wins and the financial tradeoff vs UCF isn't that great, who do they go with?
 
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