You really are amazing at creating incredibly shitty analogies. How did you manage to aquire such a skill?
Illegal Alien kills NFL Player in DUI Accident
- Thread starter Knight_Light
- Start date
You really are amazing at creating incredibly shitty analogies. How did you manage to aquire such a skill?
Words like "idiot" and "moron" get thrown around a lot here, and it's a shame because it really cheapens the meaning when it is well deserved.
The saddest thing is, this isn't even his worst analogy.
Look, I get what you're saying but with all of these exceptions that are being sought for the various ways people come and stay illegally, it's just really building a more credible case for a hardline view on illegal immigration. Which is- go home and apply for legal status like everyone else.
At some point the government has to mandate that we aren't going to continue passing Amnesty bills every 10 years for new generations of illegal aliens living here, and instead start addressing the problem straight away by deporting even more millions of people.
This is why I think the GOP is correct in demanding that the border be secured once and for all and we completely revamp our legal immigration system. Our current system is so pathetic and abused so easily; it's no way for a nation to assure those here are legally here.
I think both parties want to change our immigration system, just how they want to go about it is SOOOO different, it makes it nearly impossible to do. Politics and what not.
Holy sh*t! I didn't know immigration status and/or country of origin were determinants of DUI. I am sure if he was here legally he wouldn't have been driving drunk*
Since the 80's the immigration policy in this country has skewed entirely towards what the D's had wanted. We've had 3 major bills that granted Amnesty to illegal aliens in exchange for "promises" to take significant steps to secure the border, which never actually happened. We routinely got the amnesty and never the border security.
That's why you have a legion of conservatives totally skeptical of doing yet another amnesty bill for weak or fake promises to finally do something about the border AND the idiotic system we have where people can so easily abuse and overstay Visas.
is that because its actually a pretty straight forward? we have laws and legal ways to come here, but they completely ignore our rules and laws.
This is the thing that leftie amnesty pushers always try to avoid. Or manipulate.
"Sure he's illegal but he's law abiding and pays taxes or something!"
Wrong. Their very first action in this country was knowingly breaking Federal law.
Sorry, like the San Francisco shooting, this is what should be politicized.
Even Libertarian, Governor Gary Johnson, of a 44% Hispanic state, used to hand these people over to ICE, per his implemented "1 strike rule." Most Americans are honestly fed up with the Democratic party who protects undocumented residents who consistently break the law. In the debate over amnesty, one thing the Democratic party had better start budging on is the "1 strike rule." Break the law, and you will never become a citizen, and you will be deported.
Do not have a license? Insurance? You do not get to drive. Period.
This is the very basis of 'special privileged' that undocumented residents are getting via 'free passes' in Democratic party 'ideals.' It's really time the Democratic party come to the negotiating table, because more and more Americans will side with the Republicans on this. Everyone understands the 'dreamer' who has done nothing wrong. But the sheer costs supporting undocumented communities and the related crime and irresponsibility that comes with them is getting beyond old.
The irony is that the MSM and courts are fighting the new administration so much, deportations are down, and more and more repeat offenders are being protected.
We seriously need to address the over 2M undocumented residents that are the main problem. As DHS, CBP and INS constantly point out, the less local governments and people assist them in getting the real law breakers, they more they have to go after all 11M people.
And what really burns me up is sheer and total hypocrisy of how Democrats are so upset over a Nevada ranch 'costing taxpayers money,' and overlooking the serious, special-interest abuse in the courts in Oregon to force ranchers to sell their property (while the standoff was wrong, that's another story), but they don't want to apply the same logic to undocumented residents.
As a Libertarian, you can't be pro-undocumented residents and not also pro-sagebrush rebellion. You can be anti-militia, but still pro-sagebrush rebellion, just like you can be anti-crime, but still pro-undocumented resident. Apply the same to the 2nd Amendment (anti-crime, but pro-carry), abortion (anti-abortion, but pro-choice), etc...
But because too many people are media sheep, they don't realize how hypocritical they are.
No one here is championing illegal immigration. But at the same time it’s easy to see they are people. People that are often trying to escape corrupt countries with limited chances for economic growth that are often plagued with violence. Do I wish they would come legally- of course. But at the same time I don’t blame them for attempting to get here anyway possible. If I was in their shoes, I can’t say I wouldn’t do the same.
Making analogies comparing being thrown out of Disney to throwing someone out of the country for trying to make a better life is simply disrespectful and dehumanizing them. Yet at the same time I can still want more border security to encourage legal immigration. The two aren’t mutually exclusive.
yes i get what they are trying to do as well. however, there are legal ways to do things. and yes it is hard to become a citizen here, but i will contend that is by design. this is best country in the world, this it should be harder to get in than other places.
No, it's an outstanding analogy that all other, western countries would use!
The whole reason Disney kicks out the entire family is to deter bad and unlawful behavior.
What do all all other, western countries do?
Even Germany threw anyone Middle Eastern refugee in jail if they did not get refugee status! At one point they were up to 1M "illegal immigrants," over-crowding their jails, and they had to build make-shift, interment camps, before deportation and related proceedings. The Czech Republic, Romania and others finally took it into their own hands at one point, because it got so bad.
Australia is the worst. They literally pay other countries to take their boat people. The "bad deal" Trump talked about was literally the worst deal. It was in total violation of US law, and the UN coming in and retroactively giving them refugee status at the urging of special interest that got President Obama's ear, was the biggest insult to anyone looking for real immigration reform.
No one talks about this. I'm so tired of people literally making excuses for all of this, when every other country implements far more "draconian" measures than even Trump. Heck, Trump's results have been far more pro-undocumented residency, as the entire courts and MSM are fighting him.
DHS, CBP and INS are literally tired of the backlash. They cannot get at the criminals. We are literally making the US ideal for organized crime by people who cannot be tracked at all. All the meanwhile, it's increasing our public costs and reducing public safety.
As a Libertarian, I traditionally sided with the "Liberal" elements of the Democratic party on immigration. That changed over the last decade and a half. Now the Democratic party has literally gone off-the-deep-end, as they've been dominated by special interest Progressives and Clinton Popularism -- sign and support something popular in the MSM, even if it makes things worse.
Trump is just the reverse popularism and, ironically, it's making it more pro-undocumented rights for criminals.
There are poor countries plagued by violence all around the world. The exclusive difference between most of those countries, and those in Central America, are that the latter group can travel up through Mexico and then walk across our border illegally.
Why should they get to jump ahead of poor economic migrants from violence plagued nations in Europe or Asia that are attempting to come here legally?
Don't you know that all of these dirty immigrants from shithole countries are criminals? And, I'm not racist, I have dirty immigrant friends.
They shouldn’t and I never said they should. It doesn’t matter if they walk across the border or are put in a shipping container and transported across the Atlantic, they’re still people. Analogies don’t do the plight they’re trying to escape justice was all I was saying.
How come everytime I -- a Libertarian -- explain all the details to my Australian and European friends -- even the most liberal of them even call it "supporting illegal immigration?"
Not one, single person disagrees after we talk. They literally cannot wrap their head around it at first, and believe I'm lying about real things. In several cases, I had them on my Democratic friends, who were totally backtracking.
Trust me, we Libertarians take a lot of issues with Republicans. But the Disney analogy is not de-humanitizing them. And to counter it is to use the "bleeding heart" argument that got us into the mess in the first place! It's an extremely on-the-point analogy.
We're beyond just having an 'undocumented resident' problem. We now have a serious, systematic breakdown of law and related organized crime problem. We cannot even deport repeat criminals. Fraud is even secondary at this point ... and not even after someone dies.
It's about 100% deterrence, pure and simple.
The US is the only country that doesn't in the western world. I haven't found a single Australian or European that disagrees with me. They literally do not understand it when you start explaining that their 'illegal aliens' are what we call 'undocumented residents.'
And 'refugee status' isn't required to enter the US and not be imprisoned and deported.
We are so screwed ... badly. The current MSM climate has made it worse under Trump than it was under Obama. At least Obama was deporting criminals at 3x the rate. And part of the reason why non-criminals are getting deported is because we've had to fall back to general raids, instead of focusing on criminals.
Which is where we are.
We are flooded with people coming in illegally which makes the people with the most merit, who follow the law and want to integrate, the 'last in line' now. I have so many friends who are legal immigrants, and half the people I worked with for most of my career are outside the US.
Especially my European friends. Once you get past the US MSM total BS, you get them to understand. At first they don't believe it, then I send them lots of stories from the AP and Reuters. At that point, they literally realize they've been fed US MSM BS, often via their own, government run media companies that want to make the US look like the problem, not their own.
As most AU outlets put it about the 'boat people,' "Trump saved Turnbull."
No, it's an excellent analogy.
Disney throws out entire families to deter others.
That's what every other western nation does.
Heck, even Gary Johnson did this in 44% Hispanic New Mexico, his "1 strike rule."
It's why all the undocumented residents in the state fell-in-line really quick, or moved out.
Most of the organized crime moved to Arizona and California as well.
Republicans and Democrats are literally fighting each other, instead of the issue.
They are so focused on the rhetoric, instead of what their rhetoric is doing.
You want undocumented residents working with law enforcement, but following the law too.
Otherwise you get communities where law is overstretched, and organized crime is rampant.
Last edited:
BTW, when are we sending the illegal immigrants back to Africa? I don't think they had a visa when they came here inside the boats *
It's funny how we joke. But we are so beyond help at this point.
Two things are clear ...
1) The Obama adminsitration was far, far better of a deporter -- especially of criminals -- than Trump's, and ...
2) The more you fight something the MSM supports, the less effective you will be than even your predecessor was at it
Two things are clear ...
1) The Obama adminsitration was far, far better of a deporter -- especially of criminals -- than Trump's, and ...
2) The more you fight something the MSM supports, the less effective you will be than even your predecessor was at it
Explain to me how that's not Libertarian?
Remember, Libertarianism != Progressivism
I love how Democrats and Republicans always say I'm not a Libertarian ... and wrong in general.
Whatever BS. Being thrown out of Disney = Oh No I can’t ride Space Mountain. Being thrown out of the US could lead to a variety of problems for a person physically or economically. They aren’t the same thing. That’s not me arguing for illegal immigrants being given amnesty. That’s me arguing against bad analogies.
Additionally, I would love to see some factual data that deporting someone actually limits attempts to illegally cross again. The guy who killed the football player had been deported twice!! Furthermore, attempts at border crossings are back up to levels equal or higher to what was seen under Obama. Which is why I completely understand the fight for border security.
http://amp.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/jan/9/illegal-immigration-again-december/
No offense but you're heavily skewing the reason for why most illegal aliens come here. You're describing a quasi Refugee status or a TPD status, when in fact the majority of people here illegally are simply economic migrants. They are treated differently by most every developed country in the world.
Again, the deterrence is 1:1 the same.
Of course they keep crossing! Duh! To talk about that, we have to look at all the issues with our current "implementations."
The EU has far more effective solutions. Some are even questionable.
And Australia one-ups them far worse. You seen the conditions of those camps they off-shore?
Now those are totally questionable!Right now, you can not only get into Disney for free, and there's a good chance Cinderella will stop by, and you might even get to go into the castle -- all well before any paying customer, let alone a lower paying customer.
That's the US. You guys obviously aren't realizing just how good of an analogy this is. Sorry. Truth.
Yes, because Trump has been ineffectual at deterrence. It's more than just the MSM, but the courts as well. Even DHS has to explain things in ways they didn't under the Obama administration.
The backlash, even in the courts, is heavy against Trump.
But what if they are being put in a shipping container because of the realities of the US system?
That's why many people are saying, please, please, the time for 'bleeding heart discussions' is long past. We are beyond the 'we want to help them' but the 'we are literally promoting the worst realities for them!'
And the fact that we keep giving out these 'temporary' statuses is the problem in the first place. Let's solve the immediate issues (e.g., Dreamers) and solidify the enforcement of the law (so this doesn't happen again).
Every 'bleeding heart argument' is really just benefiting the ones that do not want to solve the problem. This is organized crime. This is states and districts that benefit from the voting blocks and corruption of those realities.
Sorry, but that's what we're facing. BTW, does anyone remember who were found responsible for attacking Trump supporters in San Francisco?
The only thing I personally have mentioned in this is about DACA & Dreamers, which as you and I both know, means that the very mass majority of them had no idea or no choice that they were about to break a law.
I may be liberal - but I'm not someone who just follows blindly what other people say and think. I think a lot of my liberal friends are absolutely hilarious and frustrate me just as much as any hardcore conservative out there. I know how to empathize with people, regardless of whether I agree with them or not and can usually understand where they are coming from (usually).
85 - you on the other hand have absolutely no ability in doing that. I'd venture to say you're one of the worst on here because while other people like reddice and chemmie are over the top - they know it. You think you're the almighty answer and your way has to be right.
95% of the political threads on here are started by the "Trump Supporters" Group and then inside each of those threads you all circle jerk each other and whine until Ninja or Ace pops in, which is followed by 5 more posts by you, Bob or Wayne all talking like your sh!t don't stank.
Why don't you all go on and just be happy with your lives, you're all successful people, living happy lives, right? Why don't y'all act that way. K? Great.
/endgayrant
This is what gets me about too many Conservatives.
It makes the argument look petty, and distracts from the real, bigger issues. Don't make it. If you feel you must, please go over into the corner, and let those Conservatives, Libertarians and Liberals -- who have better than 'circular arguments' -- have the first 5 minutes.
Over 2M of the estimated 11M undocumented residents are guilty of major crimes, nearly half of those are violent.
Then over half of the remaining are guilty of multiple frauds. They are using services, receiving benefits and/or driving without licenses (and the required insurance), among other things.
The main problem isn't that they break US immigration law. It's that they don't stop committing fraud once they get here. We Libertarians have been trying to point to successful states, like New Mexico's "1 strike rule" under Gov. Gary Johnson, on effective immigration policy.
Until we get past the circular references and partisan arguments that are a broken record, we won't address the major issues. And yes, this includes, half of them breaking the law afterwards, with most guilty of committing fraud ... many regularly.
Yes, they broke the law getting into the country.
Yes, they 'cut in line.'
Yes, they are usually not remotely as 'productive' as people who attempt to get in legally.
That's Captain Obvious, but a secondary issue.
And it plays right into the special interest Progressive's arguments.
They can easily paint you as obsessed with the simpleton arguments.
I only bring up facts. It's not my fault you all believe leftist propaganda. Trump offered DACA and amnesty to 1.8M illegal immigrants, more than twice as many people as Obama. Why are you ignoring that? Your husband is not going to be deported, he never was.
I guess the point you were making is that you only judge people by the letter at the end of their name and not what they actually say? I guess it makes sense though. Republicans are all "racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamaphobic—you name it".
Why wouldn’t those receiving countries of our dear, sweet DACA dreamers be thrilled to have these “new” citizens? You would think that they would be setting up massive taxpayer funded programs to help welcome home and integrate these U.S. educated and trained, industrious, economic contributors. The red carpet should be rolled out for them and all of their citizens should be thrilled as these newcomers Americanize their “new” home countries. It’s not like those countries are sh!tholes or something.*
Yea ok dude. I would simply say I’m honest- I hold right wing views and I don’t try to dispute that. I don’t think they’re absolutely right all the time but I start from that position and try to incorporate reason and logic into that.
Your comments are funny given you’re whining to a right winger who has long supported gay marriage. As you said- we’re the worst!
You can take the position that you did. I just don’t believe you. You want us to believe that you’re a leftie BUTA you aren’t partisan. You laugh at your lib friends. You’re open for persuasion.
The only problem is that I’ve yet to ever see you take a position here that isn’t lockstep in line with the left wing. You’re a lot like the Jon Stewart crowd- people who are hard lefties but want everyone to think they’re really just middle America
So go ahead- whine about me. At least I’m honest about where my priorities lie.
So, you think that because he happens to be here and hasn’t been caught, then America owes him citizenship. How do you justify that?
I think things aren't as black and white as you're making them out to be, which is why it's so difficult to get things done.
Yes, in the case of DACA, I do think there should be a path to citizenship. These people were brought here either under false pretenses or under no choice and have integrated into society, the most un-American thing you can do to them is just kick them out.
What does gay marriage have to do with anything?
ALL you do is whine on this board - and it makes it horrible to read. The irony is you're calling people snowflakes, WHILE whining. Just because you you think you're right, doesn't mean it's not whining.
I've had this argument with you before, just because I don't agree with something, doesn't mean I don't understand why someone else believes in it. Like your economic views, we just view how things should work differently. The different between me and you is that while I can empathize and understand where you're coming from, you flat out can't and just resort to calling people names and saying they're wrong.
Similar threads
Latest posts
-
-
-
-
Oklahoma State is Begging Fans to Attend Basketball Game vs. UCF
- Latest: Knight_Classes_begin_7pm
-
