Impeachment Thread: Trump retaliating at anyone who wasn't willing to commit criminal obstruction

[Cubs79]

That's pretty hyperbolic. Why is it out of the realm of possibility that republicans take into consideration that essentially no defense was allowed in the house and see it as a partisan move?

We are told that the whistleblower should not testify because motivation shouldnt be a factor, correct? If that's true then trumps motivation should be stricken from consideration and only his actions should be part of the record. I mean, if we're going to be completely objective then trumps actions really didnt lead to a crime of any kind. If we are going to take motivation into account then we should consider the motivations of all parties involved, which includes the whistle blower, joe biden, and the state dept so we have a balanced approach from which to form a judgment.

It isn't hyperbolic in the least bit. It is one thing to not convict, it is quite another to have what looks like it is going to be a complete farce of a trial.

Joe Biden isn't on trial, you are completely trying to conflate this into something it isn't. If you want Biden to be on trial then ask that Barr or the FBI open up an investigation, but Biden's actions have no baring on what if what Trump did was wrong or not.

 

[Crazyhole]

It isn't hyperbolic in the least bit. It is one thing to not convict, it is quite another to have what looks like it is going to be a complete farce of a trial.

Joe Biden isn't on trial, you are completely trying to conflate this into something it isn't. If you want Biden to be on trial then ask that Barr or the FBI open up an investigation, but Biden's actions have no baring on what if what Trump did was wrong or not.

If I kick the crap out of my neighbor because he's been beating his wife, don't you think that would be pertinent evidence that my defense should be allowed to provide as a reference for my actions? Or would you rather him go scott free and me go to prison for assault?

I think McConnell should propose that any witness can be called by any sitting senator. Let the courts decide on issues of executive privilege for trumps cabinet.

Call rudy, parnas, biden, shokin, Poroshenko, hunter, archer, Bolton, and pompeo. The more testimony the better chance we have to understand both the actions and motivations of everybody involved.

 

[fried-chicken]

If I kick the crap out of my neighbor because he's been beating his wife, don't you think that would be pertinent evidence that my defense should be allowed to provide as a reference for my actions? Or would you rather him go scott free and me go to prison for assault?

I think McConnell should propose that any witness can be called by any sitting senator. Let the courts decide on issues of executive privilege for trumps cabinet.

Call rudy, parnas, biden, shokin, Poroshenko, hunter, archer, Bolton, and pompeo. The more testimony the better chance we have to understand both the actions and motivations of everybody involved.

Yes you should go to jail if you attack your neighbor and don't just report it to police.

What an awful analogy lol.

 

[Cubs79]

If I kick the crap out of my neighbor because he's been beating his wife, don't you think that would be pertinent evidence that my defense should be allowed to provide as a reference for my actions? Or would you rather him go scott free and me go to prison for assault?

I think McConnell should propose that any witness can be called by any sitting senator. Let the courts decide on issues of executive privilege for trumps cabinet.

Call rudy, parnas, biden, shokin, Poroshenko, hunter, archer, Bolton, and pompeo. The more testimony the better chance we have to understand both the actions and motivations of everybody involved.

If your neighbor is assaulting his wife he should be charged for that. That doesn't mean you shouldn't be charged if you did something wrong. Again, even if you think Biden did something wrong, it has nothing to do with Trump's actions. This is your, and Republican's, way of changing the subject, that is all it is.

We don't need to know the motivations of Biden to determine if Trump act outside the law. That isn't what this is about no matter how much you want to make it so.

 

[Crazyhole]

Yes you should go to jail if you attack your neighbor and don't just report it to police.

What an awful analogy lol.

You couldn't be more of a beta male if you tried.

 

[fried-chicken]

You couldn't be more of a beta male if you tried.

Yeah. I guess it's beta to follow the law. That explains why you see Trump as an alpha. He does what he wants, law be damned.

 

[Crazyhole]

If your neighbor is assaulting his wife he should be charged for that. That doesn't mean you shouldn't be charged if you did something wrong. Again, even if you think Biden did something wrong, it has nothing to do with Trump's actions. This is your, and Republican's, way of changing the subject, that is all it is.

I agree with the rest, but I highly doubt McConnell is going to allow most of that to happen.

I'm totally cool with what could have been a legitimate constitutional impeachment of trump. Schiff and nadler completely failed at their attempt though, so if trump is going to court for the same thing biden did, look into both of them. It seems silly that one pays the price and the other doesn't.

 

[Cubs79]

You couldn't be more of a beta male if you tried.

People who pull out the "beta" male talk are losers and 99% of them are incel geeks who blame everyone else for the lack of success with the ladies. Do better, that is a stupid phrase.

 

[Cubs79]

I'm totally cool with what could have been a legitimate constitutional impeachment of trump. Schiff and nadler completely failed at their attempt though, so if trump is going to court for the same thing biden did, look into both of them. It seems silly that one pays the price and the other doesn't.

I edited my previous post because I misread your 2nd paragraph.

Biden isn't in office and cannot be impeached, that simply isn't how this works. It isn't Schiff and Nadler's job to investigate Hunter Biden.

 

[Boosted87]

I'm totally cool with what could have been a legitimate constitutional impeachment of trump. Schiff and nadler completely failed at their attempt though, so if trump is going to court for the same thing biden did, look into both of them. It seems silly that one pays the price and the other doesn't.

Total nonsense. There is zero evidence that Biden was extracting a personal benefit. Appearance of a conflict of interest? Sure. Evidence that Biden changed policy or selected his policy with the express intent of benefiting himself or Hunter? Nada.

 

[Crazyhole]

Yeah. I guess it's beta to follow the law. That explains why you see Trump as an alpha. He does what he wants, law be damned.

No, what makes you a beta is that if you saw your neighbor beating his wife you would cower away and ask somebody else to take care of it.

It's kind of amazing that you support antifa beating up right-leaning journalists but wouldn't do the same if you saw a real victim. Then again, maybe not. A beta doesn't stand up for anything, they complain until someone else addresses the problem.

 

[Boosted87]

Call rudy, parnas, biden, shokin, Poroshenko, hunter, archer, Bolton, and pompeo. The more testimony the better chance we have to understand both the actions and motivations of everybody involved.

I'm all for this but it won't happen. You know what I'd prefer? Both sides making requests to Roberts and him ruling (per Senate rules) on materiality.

 

[Cubs79]

No, what makes you a beta is that if you saw your neighbor beating his wife you would cower away and ask somebody else to take care of it.

It's kind of amazing that you support antifa beating up right-leaning journalists but wouldn't do the same if you saw a real victim. Then again, maybe not. A beta doesn't stand up for anything, they complain until someone else addresses the problem.

Dude, your analogy doesn't work. Trump didn't "see" Biden do anything and didnt bring it up for several years after the fact when Biden became a potential opponent. If they felt something needed investigated they could have gone about it the right way.

 

[fried-chicken]

No, what makes you a beta is that if you saw your neighbor beating his wife you would cower away and ask somebody else to take care of it.

It's kind of amazing that you support antifa beating up right-leaning journalists but wouldn't do the same if you saw a real victim. Then again, maybe not. A beta doesn't stand up for anything, they complain until someone else addresses the problem.

What I want to happen and what the law is are two seperate things. You tried to argue that motive allows breaking the law and that's not true.

Do I enjoy a antifa punching out Nazis? Of course I do. Should they go to jail? Obviously.

It's a dumb argument and you know it's dumb. Asking for a political investigation in exchange for congressionally granted tax payer funds is not the same as beating up a domestic abuser you empty headed sack of hillbilly.

 

[Crazyhole]

Dude, your analogy doesn't work. Trump didn't "see" Biden do anything and didnt bring it up for several years after the fact when Biden became a potential opponent. If they felt something needed investigating they could have gone about it the right way.

Well that would take too long. Isn't that why the house didnt pursue subpoenas for trump and his affiliates? Bidens son got something in the range of 4 million from Burisma when Joe was the point man for Ukrainian policy. Bidens brother got 54 million dollars in US loans (defaulted on, BTW) while Joe was VP. Bidens other brother made millions AFTER joe was VP in real estate and his partners said that his involvement was due to him being the VPs brother. It seems like there is a pattern here and it isn't out of the realm of possibility that Trumps request was completely legit. That's the point.......the narrative that trump was asking for Ukraine to check into it for political purposes could fall flat on its face if we find out that Biden was actually corrupt. Investigating or calling Biden to testify isn't necessarily a distraction, it might be the basis for all of it .

 

[Crazyhole]

What I want to happen and what the law is are two seperate things. You tried to argue that motive allows breaking the law and that's not true.

Do I enjoy a antifa punching out Nazis? Of course I do. Should they go to jail? Obviously.

It's a dumb argument and you know it's dumb. Asking for a political investigation in exchange for congressionally granted tax payer funds is not the same as beating up a domestic abuser you empty headed sack of hillbilly.

Call your congressman and tell them that they should have focused on it then. The entirety of the impeachment articles is based on intent. Tell them to make the case that he broke the law as written, not the reason that he broke the law.

 

[UCFWayne]

biden is leading in the polls. he might be the next potus. why wouldnt the dems want an investigation into their leading candidate? after all he has nothing to hide.

 

[Cubs79]

Well that would take too long. Isn't that why the house didnt pursue subpoenas for trump and his affiliates? Bidens son got something in the range of 4 million from Burisma when Joe was the point man for Ukrainian policy. Bidens brother got 54 million dollars in US loans (defaulted on, BTW) while Joe was VP. Bidens other brother made millions AFTER joe was VP in real estate and his partners said that his involvement was due to him being the VPs brother. It seems like there is a pattern here and it isn't out of the realm of possibility that Trumps request was completely legit. That's the point.......the narrative that trump was asking for Ukraine to check into it for political purposes could fall flat on its face if we find out that Biden was actually corrupt. Investigating or calling Biden to testify isn't necessarily a distraction, it might be the basis for all of it .

It is funny when I said Republican's look like they want to treat Trump like a King you told me I was being hyperbolic. Now you are literally arguing that he should be able to do what he wants no matter the legality of it.

They did subpoena witnesses and were ignored, and didn't pursue it in court. But I guess you are ok with a president and his people ignoring subpoena's now.

I don't think you know what this impeachment is about. It is about the manner in which Trump went about trying to get an investigation. Even if you feel the investigation itself was legit (which no evidence at all it was), the way Trump went about getting is the part he is in trouble for. You seem to be conveniently overlooking that part.

 

[Cubs79]

biden is leading in the polls. he might be the next potus. why wouldnt the dems want an investigation into their leading candidate? after all he has nothing to hide.

I welcome any investigation if there is a valid reason for it, and it is conducted properly. That isn't what happened here.

 

[fried-chicken]

biden is leading in the polls. he might be the next potus. why wouldnt the dems want an investigation into their leading candidate? after all he has nothing to hide.

An investigation by the Ukranian government with no oversight while they rely on our president to be happy with the results or he won't release security funds?

Trumps got a lackey in the DOJ. Why not just have him investigate?

 

[Crazyhole]

It is funny when I said Republican's look like they want to treat Trump like a King you told me I was being hyperbolic. Now you are literally arguing that he should be able to do what he wants no matter the legality of it.

I don't think you know what this impeachment is about. It is about the manner in which Trump went about trying to get an investigation. Even if you feel the investigation itself was legit (which no evidence at all it was), the way Trump went about getting is the part he is in trouble for. You seem to be conveniently overlooking that part.

I'm not at all arguing the legality of it, and I've said several times that what he did was unconstitutional because congress determines what are where we spend money. The house didnt make that case, they made the case that trump was using his authority for personal gains. A way more compelling case can be made that Biden and Bernie did the same thing.

 

[Cubs79]

I'm not at all arguing the legality of it, and I've said several times that what he did was unconstitutional because congress determines what are where we spend money. The house didnt make that case, they made the case that trump was using his authority for personal gains. A way more compelling case can be made that Biden and Bernie did the same thing.

Then investigate Biden and Bernie, but that has nothing to do with this impeachment, I don't know what you don't understand about that. Or actually, I think you do understand it but you don't want Trump to be held accountable for anything so you try and get people to look the other way instead of at the actual issue in front of us.

 

[UCFWayne]

I welcome any investigation if there is a valid reason for it, and it is conducted properly. That isn't what happened here.

you are right. there was a valid reason for the trump impeachment inquiry, but the house side screwed it up.

 

[UCFWayne]

An investigation by the Ukranian government with no oversight while they rely on our president to be happy with the results or he won't release security funds?

Trumps got a lackey in the DOJ. Why not just have him investigate?

sure, i welcome that investigation.

 

[Crazyhole]

Then investigate Biden and Bernie, but that has nothing to do with this investigation, I don't know what you don't understand about that. Or actually, I think you do understand it but you don't want Trump to be held accountable for anything so you try and get people to look the other way instead of at the actual issue in front of us.

Then you totally misunderstand my position. I think trump should absolutely be removed from office but not because of these articles of impeachment. I think that if these articles are the standard that we are working from then we need to investigate Biden and his actions are 100% applicable to the issue at hand. If personal gain is the real issue and that elected officials should be banned from the practice, then the basis of what trump was after should be investigated and be an integral part of this process. If this is really about rooting out corruption, we should find out if trump was rooting out corruption or if he was acting in his own self interest, not making assumptions on his intent

 

[Cubs79]

Then you totally misunderstand my position. I think trump should absolutely be removed from office but not because of these articles of impeachment. I think that if these articles are the standard that we are working from then we need to investigate Biden and his actions are 100% applicable to the issue at hand. If personal gain is the real issue and that elected officials should be banned from the practice, then the basis of what trump was after should be investigated and be an integral part of this process. If this is really about rooting out corruption, we should find out if trump was rooting out corruption or if he was acting in his own self interest, not making assumptions on his intent

I understand your position just fine. You don't want to discuss Trump, you want to discuss Biden, even though Biden isn't the one being impeached. If Trump wanted to investigate Biden, he could have gone through proper channels. He didn't, and this is the part you keep wanting to ignore, and making it about Biden. Your position is more than obvious dude.

 

[Crazyhole]

I understand your position just fine. You don't want to discuss Trump, you want to discuss Biden, even though Biden isn't the one being impeached. If Trump wanted to investigate Biden, he could have gone through proper channels. He didn't, and this is the part you keep wanting to ignore, and making it about Biden. Your position is more than obvious dude.

But it isn't an inappropriate channel. We're giving them billions of dollars with the understanding that the money is going to what its supposed to go to. It's not inappropriate to ask them to make sure that it isn't getting wasted.

 

[Cubs79]

But it isn't an inappropriate channel. We're giving them billions of dollars with the understanding that the money is going to what its supposed to go to. It's not inappropriate to ask them to make sure that it isn't getting wasted.

We didnt send them money to investigate our former VP, so I fail to see what that has to do with money potentially being wasted.

 

[NinjaKnight]

Watching it now, blows my mind how the GOP is ok with withholding evidence and witnesses.

I mean I'm not surprised, they are the party of proclaimed scientific ignorance and they are proud of it, but really impressive they are still sticking with that.

 

[Cubs79]

Watching it now, blows my mind how the GOP is ok with withholding evidence and witnesses.

I mean I'm not surprised, they are the party of proclaimed scientific ignorance and they are proud of it, but really impressive they are still sticking with that.

Yeah I dont get it. I dont see how anyone can think it is a good precedent to think the executive branch can simply withold evidence in an impeachment trial. They realize the next time a Democrat is impeached, they very well might cite this process and refuse to cooperate as well right?

 

[NinjaKnight]

Yeah I dont get it. I dont see how anyone can think it is a good precedent to think the executive branch can simply withold evidence in an impeachment trial. They realize the next time a Democrat is impeached, they very well might cite this process and refuse to cooperate as well right?

I've given up trying to ascribe logic and reason to the modern day GOP in trying to justify their actions. It really is easier and makes more sense to just assume they are in fact mostly evil trying to surround themselves with more power and are simply using inbreds as useful idiots by pandering to their racist xenophobic tendencies.

 

[Boosted87]

Then you totally misunderstand my position. I think trump should absolutely be removed from office but not because of these articles of impeachment. I think that if these articles are the standard that we are working from then we need to investigate Biden and his actions are 100% applicable to the issue at hand. If personal gain is the real issue and that elected officials should be banned from the practice, then the basis of what trump was after should be investigated and be an integral part of this process. If this is really about rooting out corruption, we should find out if trump was rooting out corruption or if he was acting in his own self interest, not making assumptions on his intent

Just curious - what specifically do you think he should be removed from office over?

 

[fried-chicken]

Just curious - what specifically do you think he should be removed from office over?

Give it up. They pretty much acknowledged that they think Trump is snorting amphetamines and countered it with "TAXES!" they don't give a shit about anything except taxes, even when they aren't getting the benefit.

 

[Boosted87]

I've given up trying to ascribe logic and reason to the modern day GOP in trying to justify their actions. It really is easier and makes more sense to just assume they are in fact mostly evil trying to surround themselves with more power and are simply using inbreds as useful idiots by pandering to their racist xenophobic tendencies.

Do you want to know why Hillary lost? This attitude. Remember when Hillary called Trump supporters deplorables? The single most tone-deaf statement in modern political history. Why? Because it immediately demonstrated her inability to empathize with people who's situation she didn't understand. This is precisely the rift that Russia is using to divide us. Dehumanize the other side. Convince yourself they are evil. At that point, the ends begin to justify the means. You can't have an "us vs them" mentality here. That just makes people defensive and pushes them into their corners.

And yes the right is terrible at this. But giving it back to them reinforces their belief that it really is battle between patriots and libtards. Don't fuel that worldview by falling into it. Empathize. Relate. Inform. You're goal right now should not be to change anyone's mind, but to remind them that we're all Americans with different perspectives. Calling them names only gives them evidence that the other side really is a bunch of divisive idiots after all.

 

[Crazyhole]

Just curious - what specifically do you think he should be removed from office over?

I think he has done a lot of damage to political discourse by stoking rage within his supporters, name calling, etc. He's gone too far in his attempts to undermine trust in elected officials. Reagan did the same thing but he created a healthy skepticism because he didn't villianize people like trump does. I realize that in and of itself that isn't singularly an impeachable offense but I think its worthy of removal.

 

[NinjaKnight]

Do you want to know why Hillary lost? This attitude. Remember when Hillary called Trump supporters deplorables? The single most tone-deaf statement in modern political history. Why? Because it immediately demonstrated her inability to empathize with people who's situation she didn't understand. This is precisely the rift that Russia is using to divide us. Dehumanize the other side. Convince yourself they are evil. At that point, the ends begin to justify the means. You can't have an "us vs them" mentality here. That just makes people defensive and pushes them into their corners.

And yes the right is terrible at this. But giving it back to them reinforces their belief that it really is battle between patriots and libtards. Don't fuel that worldview by falling into it. Empathize. Relate. Inform. You're goal right now should not be to change anyone's mind, but to remind them that we're all Americans with different perspectives. Calling them names only gives them evidence that the other side really is a bunch of divisive idiots after all.

Tried that bro. Really did. I learned a lot from this board, the biggest takeaway is that some people really and truly do not give a damn about the truth. They would rather live in their own reality of lies that makes them feel good then confront harsh realities that are uncomfortable for them.

My first two years of the trump campaign and then presidency I really thought all the other republicans like myself felt the same way, and could be persuaded with facts like I was. I was a lifelong conservative, voted R or Libertarian in every single election, registered and everything. But then I saw an anti-american, racist reality show lifelong liberal from NYC somehow win not only the republican primary, but the presidency...and worse people still supported him no matter how many facts were posted showing how terrible he was.

I really thought people would change their mind, like I did, when presented with new information. But they don't. So theirs no point in debating them. We still have literal morons on here saying trump doesn't lie. I mean we have 16K confirmed lies or distortions but idiots on here say its just the liberal media. You can't debate that level of stupidity.

I'm honestly worried at the direction our country is going, and the Russians aren't helping like you said, with their thinly veiled troll farms pumping out flat out racist divisive boomer memes, and these idiots soaking it up. But I know I can't do anything on here to stop it, and it's maddening.

 

[Cubs79]

Do you want to know why Hillary lost? This attitude. Remember when Hillary called Trump supporters deplorables? The single most tone-deaf statement in modern political history. Why? Because it immediately demonstrated her inability to empathize with people who's situation she didn't understand. This is precisely the rift that Russia is using to divide us. Dehumanize the other side. Convince yourself they are evil. At that point, the ends begin to justify the means. You can't have an "us vs them" mentality here. That just makes people defensive and pushes them into their corners.

And yes the right is terrible at this. But giving it back to them reinforces their belief that it really is battle between patriots and libtards. Don't fuel that worldview by falling into it. Empathize. Relate. Inform. You're goal right now should not be to change anyone's mind, but to remind them that we're all Americans with different perspectives. Calling them names only gives them evidence that the other side really is a bunch of divisive idiots after all.

I understand your overall point, but the bolded part is what makes a lot of this difficult. They don't look at liberals as American's, not the other way around. And it didnt just start with Russia. The Republican party has always set itself up as the Patriotic party, from everything to calling people traitors who are against certain wars, to the Swift Boating of Dem. John Kerry who was a veteran, and making GWB out to be the war hero even though he never went to war. To cultural things like Kapernick simply taking a knee during the national anthem and thinking that is somehow abhorrent Anti-American behavior. Even Sarah Palin, while running for VP, used the phrase "Real America" referring to small town America, and implying our big cities weren't even American. So again, I get your overall point, and I agree we should try and have civil discussions, but that isn't easy when one side doesn't even consider liberals (and lets be honest, a lot of liberals are people of color) as "real Americans".

And let me make it clear, I am not talking about all Republicans, but there is a significant amount that feel the Republicans are the real American's, and everyone else is not.

 

[Boosted87]

Tried that bro. Really did. I learned a lot from this board, the biggest takeaway is that some people really and truly do not give a damn about the truth. They would rather live in their own reality of lies that makes them feel good then confront harsh realities that are uncomfortable for them.

My first two years of the trump campaign and then presidency I really thought all the other republicans like myself felt the same way, and could be persuaded with facts like I was. I was a lifelong conservative, voted R or Libertarian in every single election, registered and everything. But then I saw an anti-american, racist reality show lifelong liberal from NYC somehow win not only the republican primary, but the presidency...and worse people still supported him no matter how many facts were posted showing how terrible he was.

I really thought people would change their mind, like I did, when presented with new information. But they don't. So theirs no point in debating them. We still have literal morons on here saying trump doesn't lie. I mean we have 16K confirmed lies or distortions but idiots on here say its just the liberal media. You can't debate that level of stupidity.

I'm honestly worried at the direction our country is going, and the Russians aren't helping like you said, with their thinly veiled troll farms pumping out flat out racist divisive boomer memes, and these idiots soaking it up. But I know I can't do anything on here to stop it, and it's maddening.

So we're pretty much on the same page. I share your concerns. I too am an ex-republican. And obviously nothing you or I say on the internet is ultimately going to matter much and we can't change discourse at the macro level.

But we are fighting an information war right. A war on truth. A large chunk of America essentially consumes their news right wing propaganda outfits. An old boss of mine (smart dude) recommended to me recently that I check OANN because it's the only true non-biased news source he can find(!).

I don't know how to fix it but I do know how to make it far worse - which is to throw your hands up in frustration and give up. Keep engaging and remind folks on the other side that reasonable people disagree with them.

 

[Boosted87]

I understand your overall point, but the bolded part is what makes a lot of this difficult. They don't look at liberals as American's, not the other way around. And it didnt just start with Russia. The Republican party has always set itself up as the Patriotic party, from everything to calling people traitors who are against certain wars, to the Swift Boating of Dem. John Kerry who was a veteran, and making GWB out to be the war hero even though he never went to war. To cultural things like Kapernick simply taking a knee during the national anthem and thinking that is somehow abhorrent Anti-American behavior. Even Sarah Palin, while running for VP, used the phrase "Real America" referring to small town America, and implying our big cities weren't even American. So again, I get your overall point, and I agree we should try and have civil discussions, but that isn't easy when one side doesn't even consider liberals (and lets be honest, a lot of liberals are people of color) as "real Americans".

And let me make it clear, I am not talking about all Republicans, but there is a significant amount that feel the Republicans are the real American's, and everyone else is not.

I don't disagree with you. But what you have to realize is that all those little things that you personally find offensive, someone on the right brushes off as no big deal and then has their own laundry list of events (like Hillary calling a huge chunk of Trump supporters deplorables).

I don't want this to be a tit-for-tat or both sides are the same argument. Think of it like having an argument with your spouse. You can disagree while still trying to see the world from their perspective. The worst thing you can do is discount them and act like their feelings don't matter. Look at your Palin comment. I get what you're saying. But would you be equally offended by a statement that said "urban centers show us the true america - a melting pot of cultures" or something like that. Should a rural American be offended by that as well? I'm not saying either answer is right - but this is how one side is able to brush off stuff the other side finds offensive. It's perspective.

I'll flip this around for the next point and throw some shade at our conservative friends on the board (to your last point). Trump's base includes a subset of America that we should all want to go away. When Trump was first elected, I told my inlaws that my single biggest concern was how this would embolden a part of America that had generally been pushed into the shadows. Trump loves dog whistles and he'll take ANYONE that's on his side. You might be offended because liberals keep calling you racist and sexist, but it's because Trump is allowing and encouraging that part of the base to flourish. Is it right to call you a racist or lump you in with that subset? No. Is this incarnation of the GOP enabling that type of behavior to fester and grow - Yes.

 

[Cubs79]

I don't disagree with you. But what you have to realize is that all those little things that you personally find offensive, someone on the right brushes off as no big deal and then has their own laundry list of events (like Hillary calling a huge chunk of Trump supporters deplorables).

I don't want this to be a tit-for-tat or both sides are the same argument. Think of it like having an argument with your spouse. You can disagree while still trying to see the world from their perspective. The worst thing you can do is discount them and act like their feelings don't matter. Look at your Palin comment. I get what you're saying. But would you be equally offended by a statement that said "urban centers show us the true america - a melting pot of cultures" or something like that. Should a rural American be offended by that as well? I'm not saying either answer is right - but this is how one side is able to brush off stuff the other side finds offensive. It's perspective.

I'll flip this around for the next point and throw some shade at our conservative friends on the board (to your last point). Trump's base includes a subset of America that we should all want to go away. When Trump was first elected, I told my inlaws that my single biggest concern was how this would embolden a part of America that had generally been pushed into the shadows. Trump loves dog whistles and he'll take ANYONE that's on his side. You might be offended because liberals keep calling you racist and sexist, but it's because Trump is allowing and encouraging that part of the base to flourish. Is it right to call you a racist or lump you in with that subset? No. Is this incarnation of the GOP enabling that type of behavior to fester and grow - Yes.

I dont find it offensive, I just dont know how it is possible have real conversations when one side thinks the other side are anti-American traitors, to be a bit hyperbolic.

Hillary's comment was stupid, I understand that, but it was no more stupid than Sarah Palin essentially saying that only red state middle America was "real America".

I dont think it is a tit for tat. YOu can certainly find dumb things Democrats have said that I would likely agree with you on 100%. I think the issue, is that a good portion of Republican's have this mindset that they are the real patriots, and if you dont agree with them then it makes you anti-American. And this has been pushed by their politicians and commentators, this mindset wasnt brought about by accident, I think it is basically part of or at least in the same family as the Southern strategy. So while one side my have some gaffes at times for sure, but the other side has it has part of their makeup more or less.