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Infrastructure spending bills

Crazyhole

Todd's Tiki Bar
Jun 4, 2004
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Should be funded by a tax that is equal for every person, not on a graduated scale. A low income person reaps the benefits of a new bridge or road as much as a rich person. If the bill needs 4 trillion dollars, divide that by 330 million and send a bill to every person for an equal amount.

Hashtag equity.
 
Should be funded by a tax that is equal for every person, not on a graduated scale. A low income person reaps the benefits of a new bridge or road as much as a rich person. If the bill needs 4 trillion dollars, divide that by 330 million and send a bill to every person for an equal amount.

Hashtag equity.
Man, you're on quite a roll today.

So I'm guessing this means screw an actual infrastructure discussion for another thread of Beavis and Butthead snorts about poor people not paying 'their fair share.' 🙄
 
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Should be funded by a tax that is equal for every person, not on a graduated scale. A low income person reaps the benefits of a new bridge or road as much as a rich person. If the bill needs 4 trillion dollars, divide that by 330 million and send a bill to every person for an equal amount.

Hashtag equity.

Not remotely true. Are you telling me the average person benefits from infrastructure as much as Amazon does? Or UPS? The answer is no, they dont. Those companies, and many others, make billions using our roads and airports. Even aside from that, people who travel more also benefit from it more, and most people who frequently travel tend to have money.
 
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They pay a ton for the roads. You might be at 0 net federal taxes.

Corporations should pay at most 5% tax. Then more profits for dividends, salaries, and growth. Tax individuals a bit higher with a VAT so all Americans pay their fair share.

And they profit much more off the roads. So how does it make sense for everyone to pay the same when some people and companies certainly benefit more than others? Crazy's premise is simply wrong. If you really wanted to make it fair with regards to infrastructure, you would make every road toll roads. Then the people who use them more often, pay for their usage. But of course that is stupid too, who wants to have to pay every time they leave their house?
 
Not remotely true. Are you telling me the average person benefits from infrastructure as much as Amazon does? Or UPS? The answer is no, they dont. Those companies, and many others, make billions using our roads and airports. Even aside from that, people who travel more also benefit from it more, and most people who frequently travel tend to have money.
There's this thing called a gasoline tax that equals out the benefit of the use of roads. Regardless, the two examples you gave are companies that use the roads that you benefit from on a secondary level.
 
There's this thing called a gasoline tax that equals out the benefit of the use of roads. Regardless, the two examples you gave are companies that use the roads that you benefit from on a secondary level.
If the gas tax is paying for our infrastructure then why does everyone need to pay thousands of dollars, as per your scenario?
 
Not remotely true. Are you telling me the average person benefits from infrastructure as much as Amazon does? Or UPS? The answer is no, they dont. Those companies, and many others, make billions using our roads and airports.
It never ceases to amaze me how many people -- for some strange reason -- vote against their own financial interests. The bottom line is that these corporations are going to get their money from us one way or another. But rather than pay their taxes, I'd prefer to pay more for their products (at least I have a say in that.)
 
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It never ceases to amaze me how many people -- for some strange reason -- vote against their own financial interests. The bottom line is that these corporations are going to get their money from us one way or another. But rather than pay their taxes, I'd prefer to pay more for their products (at least I have a say in that.)

Yep. IF what he wanted passed, then a family of 4 would be paying about $50k (give or take) more this year in taxes, which would also of course kill the economy since nobody would have money to spend on anything.
 
Yep. IF what he wanted passed, then a family of 4 would be paying about $50k (give or take) more this year in taxes, which would also of course kill the economy since nobody would have money to spend on anything.
Try again. Biden has already said that he won't raise taxes on any family or any business making under 400K a year.
 
Yep. IF what he wanted passed, then a family of 4 would be paying about $50k (give or take) more this year in taxes, which would also of course kill the economy since nobody would have money to spend on anything.
Well at least you are admitting that the debt accrued from this spending bill is a pretty massive burden. Your share is 6,000 bucks. You'll pay that one way or another.
 
Try again. Biden has already said that he won't raise taxes on any family or any business making under 400K a year.
Bidens tax plan will raise taxes on those making over 400k by about 50 billion dollars. This spending bill is 1.9 trillion.
 
Well at least you are admitting that the debt accrued from this spending bill is a pretty massive burden. Your share is 6,000 bucks. You'll pay that one way or another.

So you just dont think we should do anything about infrastructure?

It also adds jobs when you arent considering, which helps the economy and has more people paying taxes.
 
So you just dont think we should do anything about infrastructure?

It also adds jobs when you arent considering, which helps the economy and has more people paying taxes.
Well let's talk about infrastructure.

As a point of reference for the 1.9 trillion dollar "stimulus" bill.

Back in the 1930s, FDR implemented a stimulus bill that was based in early keynesian (not neo-keynesian) economic theory. It was called the WPA. The WPA was a huge spending bill, equal to 7% of total GDP which is actually less than this one at 9%. For that investment we got 600,000 miles of roads and streets, 10,000 bridges, dozens of airports, libraries, zoos, schools, city auditoriums, and public swimming pools. We are still reaping the benefits of that program today in thousand of US towns and cities. Now far be it from me to endorse FDR, but this is a much better example of what stimulus spending can do, particularly in regard to infrastructure. What exactly are we getting for this 1.9 trillion again?
 
The entire US interstate highway system cost slightly more than 500 billion in today's dollars.

Think about that for a second.
 
Well let's talk about infrastructure.

As a point of reference for the 1.9 trillion dollar "stimulus" bill.

Back in the 1930s, FDR implemented a stimulus bill that was based in early keynesian (not neo-keynesian) economic theory. It was called the WPA. The WPA was a huge spending bill, equal to 7% of total GDP which is actually less than this one at 9%. For that investment we got 600,000 miles of roads and streets, 10,000 bridges, dozens of airports, libraries, zoos, schools, city auditoriums, and public swimming pools. We are still reaping the benefits of that program today in thousand of US towns and cities. Now far be it from me to endorse FDR, but this is a much better example of what stimulus spending can do, particularly in regard to infrastructure. What exactly are we getting for this 1.9 trillion again?
Considering there isnt even a bill yet I dont know how you think I'm supposed to answer this.
 
The entire US interstate highway system cost slightly more than 500 billion in today's dollars.

Think about that for a second.
The original bill didnt establish the entirety of our current interstates. Insterstates have been added on to numerous times since the 50s.
 
The original bill didnt establish the entirety of our current interstates. Insterstates have been added on to numerous times since the 50s.
Fine then let's say it cost 4 times as much. Do you think a 2 trillion dollar spending package today would give us something that is the equivalent of the US interstate highway system?

Before you post some weird esoteric false equivalency I'll answer for you: no we would not because of that 2 trillion dollars, 80% of it would go straight into the pockets of political donors and friends of our elected officials, ultimately landing in the stock market or overseas.
 
Fine then let's say it cost 4 times as much. Do you think a 2 trillion dollar spending package today would give us something that is the equivalent of the US interstate highway system?

Before you post some weird esoteric false equivalency I'll answer for you: no we would not because of that 2 trillion dollars, 80% of it would go straight into the pockets of political donors and friends of our elected officials, ultimately landing in the stock market or overseas.

We havent even seen a bill, so I have no clue how you want me to respond to this.

I dont know what I have posted that is a weird esoteric false equivalency. You said our interstate system cost $500 billion in todays dollars, but that doesnt consider that the interstate has been added on numerous times, and in fact took 62 years to complete (our current system), not to mention the continual maintenance. You are acting as if that money built our insterstate all at once and that was that.

For every dollar spent on the interstate, it is said to have produced $6, so if a current bill produces that type of economic activity, then I do think that is a good thing. Will it do that? I have no clue because no current bill exists yet. You have no clue either.
 
I use to do some transportation planning as at one time I worked for the Volusia County MPO ( transportation planning group) as the GIS person and bike ped planner. Every 7 tears there is a major transportation budget bill. All major federal transportation projects are run through MPOs where they develop a 5 year transportation improvement plan and that TIP process looks at an areas needs and which projects get funded in which order . In Orlando this is done by Metroplan and is a 3 county MPO. Gas taxes and huge long haul trucker fees pay for the bulk of transportation spending from landscaping, to trails to busses to roads..

Make no mistake about it, but UPS , Prime and others pay to use the transpotation network ,big time . Ultimately, we pay it because it is factored into the price of shipping or your products. Taxes on businesses are passed through to the consumer in how pricing is set .

Infrastructure spending does help with movement of goods and services of which we have no economy. However, I don't see it as this great stimulus. How about keeping energy costs low and taxes low for all of us? I find the irony in progressive thought about how they always bring up the poor and justify all their schemes by helping the poor everything from education to climate to taxes , the poor ,the poor . when gasoline prices double, who does that hurt more the guy making $29K or the guy making $290k? When prices on goods and services goes up due to increased e ergy costs who does that hurt more ? When you tax corporations and slow down job creation are you hurting the corporation or the poor person who is unemployed needing a job?

We don't need more taxes or even more infrastructure spending. We need cheap energy ,low taxes and keep on doing what we were doing before this stupid pandemic. it is estimated we had 7 million more jobs than people to fill them. You know what happens when that occurs? when labor is in short supply and demand is high you get natural organic wage increases across the board . You get opportunity for entrepreneurial growth. you get expansion in the economy and you don't need Government to meddle in it, to raise taxes ,create new programs that don't work.
 
Look we just spent 1.9 Trillion on Democratic wish list, what's another few trillion. it is all sugar pill n gummy bear money anyways.. As sir Walt D would say if you wish upon a star, money will appear in your jar..
 
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Look we just spent 1.9 Trillion on Democratic wish list, what's another few trillion. it is all sugar pill n gummy bear money anyways.. As sir Walt D would say if you wish upon a star, money will appear in your jar..

COVID has been tragic to the 500k and their loved ones ,but it truly has wreaked financial havoc giving everyone in DC a huge drunken Rona spending binge . That bill is loaded with goodies for political pay back to unions, blue states who can't manage their budgets and to foreign nations . We gave Honduras like $200 million and in exchange we get their lowest skilled uneducated adults and thousands of unaccompanied minors. Sounds like a fair deal to me. Side bar: the media and the left often call us a democracy,when in fact we are constitutional republic. If you want to see what a crap hole a democracy is the past 45 days is a glimpse of it. A pure democracy is where 51% run over the 49% , it's tyranny of the masses.
 
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COVID has been tragic to the 500k and their loved ones ,but it truly has wreaked financial havoc...
Given 'the drunken rona spending' is such a clear harbringer of financial havoc, it's weird Wall Street gave the stimulus plan a big thumb's up.
 
Given 'the drunken rona spending' is such a clear harbringer of financial havoc, it's weird Wall Street gave the stimulus plan a big thumb's up.
I don't measure public policy as good or effective based on what Wall Street thinks. Those guys are all big government big stimulus cronicapitalists. They love free Government money . This was a huge political give away under the guise of Covid relief.. They bailed out mismanaged pension plans to the tune of $86 billion. Guess where that money went? Wall Street. Of course they like this. I have a portfolio and I still think F Street...I care about Main. Street.
 
Let's call these for what they are ...

Hyper-inflation Acceleration Bills
 
I've been concerned about our nation's deteriorating infrastructure but apparently, given the cost, we're fine after all. Good to know.
 
Our morons in office like to ship out hundreds of millions in foreign aid. You know like that blabbering fool.
Good to know, KNIGHTTIME. So if we follow your advice and eliminate every penny of the $47 billion we spend on foreign aid, that would cut our ANNUAL spending on infrastructure maintenance down from 400 billion dollars a year to a mere 353 billion.

However, I'm afraid we STILL have to come up with the 4.6 trillion dollars that the American Society of Civil Engineers have estimated it will take to fix all of our nation's deteriorating roads, bridges, dams, airports, and water & electrical systems.

Yes, indeed, that's quite a pricetag -- especially when we wouldn't dare to raise taxes, right guys?

So we'll keep 'kicking the can down the road' for a few MORE years. I guess, like everything else, our crumbling infrastructure will have to wait until another major bridge to collapse or a dam to break before our leaders feel any need to take action.
 
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You don't have to pull off every infrastructure project in one year. Yeah we need the other 50% chipping in for their "fair share" instead of no taxes.
Awesome response. How many trillion do you think we can squeeze out of the 'other 50%'?
 
Should be funded by a tax that is equal for every person, not on a graduated scale. A low income person reaps the benefits of a new bridge or road as much as a rich person. If the bill needs 4 trillion dollars, divide that by 330 million and send a bill to every person for an equal amount.

Hashtag equity.

This is why I equally hate republicans and dems. I hate all of you decisive m'fers. Do you remember when that bridgeht in Minneapolis collapsed during rush hour in 2007? People DIED. This is because our infrastrusture SUCKS ASS. Because you rep and dems fight so damn much, our infrastructure STILL SUCKS. I dont care how its paid for, but BOTH political parties need to figure it out b4 some bullshit like this happens again. A country as great as ours had bridges collapsing? If this shit happens again I blame all of you decisive rep and dems for not coming together to fix this problem!!!!

 
This is why I equally hate republicans and dems. I hate all of you decisive m'fers. Do you remember when that bridgeht in Minneapolis collapsed during rush hour in 2007? People DIED. This is because our infrastrusture SUCKS ASS. Because you rep and dems fight so damn much, our infrastructure STILL SUCKS. I dont care how its paid for, but BOTH political parties need to figure it out b4 some bullshit like this happens again. A country as great as ours had bridges collapsing? If this shit happens again I blame all of you decisive rep and dems for not coming together to fix this problem!!!!

Lol. I've advocated for a keynsian style stimulus program like FDR did with the WPA in the last 2 weeks. Call me a Republican or a Democrat all you want, it doesn't change the fact that we've been dumping trillions into "infrastructure" for 13 years and only a fraction of it actually goes to it.
 
Lol. I've advocated for a keynsian style stimulus program like FDR did with the WPA in the last 2 weeks. Call me a Republican or a Democrat all you want, it doesn't change the fact that we've been dumping trillions into "infrastructure" for 13 years and only a fraction of it actually goes to it.

The reason is b/c Rep and Dem dont want to work TOGETHER to resolve this. Which is why i hate both parties.
 
The 14 million Americans who became unemployed during this pandemic might argue your point.
Most of those people were out of work for weeks or a few months. In the long run many of them got more on unemployment than they were making working. I feel for the people in blue lock down states, where the businesses they worked for were kept closed, and there was little hiring elsewhere. I own a service business that is amongst the first hit in any turn down. I had a total of 6 or 8 people who were out of work and wanted to discontinue, with almost all of them I convinced them to simply skip a treatment and see how things go. All but 2 were back working 2 mos later and continued my service. I missed only one normal service. The other 2 missed 2 sprays and then were back working. Florida did not have he huge upheaval that Calif or NY had. Yes we had a deep hard recession caused by Covid and stupid politicians, but it also was a very short recession with a huge bounce back. This was not 2008 where the economy came to a sudden halt, then painfully slowly recovered with growth rates of 1% and very slow employment gains.
 
Most of those people were out of work for weeks or a few months. In the long run many of them got more on unemployment than they were making working.
infrastructure in desperate need of an upgrade and Trump proposes 1.9 billion for his 1% buddies. That’s a-okay in goodknightfl’s book but 1.9 billion to help the bottom 50% through the pandemic? Now THAT is wasteful spending by golly!
 
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This is why I equally hate republicans and dems. I hate all of you decisive m'fers. Do you remember when that bridgeht in Minneapolis collapsed during rush hour in 2007? People DIED. This is because our infrastrusture SUCKS ASS. Because you rep and dems fight so damn much, our infrastructure STILL SUCKS. I dont care how its paid for, but BOTH political parties need to figure it out b4 some bullshit like this happens again. A country as great as ours had bridges collapsing? If this shit happens again I blame all of you decisive rep and dems for not coming together to fix this problem!!!!

Actually, it was rated a 2 out of 10 (seriously poor structural condition), but for some reason, they decided to resurface it. It was the resurfacing construction -- which some engineer signed off on (unbelievably) -- that finally caused it to collapse with the heavy equipment and all those stopped cars'n rucks.

That right there is an example of what spending money on an infrastructure bill does! It's a perfect example of how this country can spent money stupidly, and make things even worse.

Lol. I've advocated for a keynsian style stimulus program like FDR did with the WPA in the last 2 weeks. Call me a Republican or a Democrat all you want, it doesn't change the fact that we've been dumping trillions into "infrastructure" for 13 years and only a fraction of it actually goes to it.
Bingo!!! Instead of fixing it, they resurfaced it ... and accelerated its collapse. That's government for you. ;)

Can I get an 'Amen!' -- or for the agnostic et al., a 'That's Right!' -- from the Civil Engineers here?
 
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