Oh Crap, It looks like Trump is Going To Do All The Things He Said He Would!

[Ace of Knights]

It's amazing what active border agents can do. Obama had border agents babysitting immigrants that crossed the border illegally instead of actually trying to stop them from crossing the border.

Right...except that's utter bullshit and i'll bring the facts to prove it.

DHS conducted 462,463 removals and returns in 2015 alone.
How many in 2014? 486,651

In reality, DHS set a record under the Obama administration with over 2 million removals between 2010 and 2014 alone, but i'm sure they were ordered to just baby sit them and not actually send them back.

The Source: DHS's own website.
https://www.dhs.gov/news/2015/12/22/dhs-releases-end-fiscal-year-2015-statistics

 

[UCFKnight85]

I'm fine with this if the "wall" is metaphorical for an overarching border defense policy that involves SOME wall but does not attempt to build the Great Wall of America.

That's what I think is planned anyways.

We could use a literal doubling of border agents, drones overhead, and actual enforcement of existing law that already is in place.

 

[Ace of Knights]

I'm fine with this if the "wall" is metaphorical for an overarching border defense policy that involves SOME wall but does not attempt to build the Great Wall of America.

That's what I think is planned anyways.

We could use a literal doubling of border agents, drones overhead, and actual enforcement of existing law that already is in place.

I'm pretty much in agreement with this. It's a sane rational approach which i'm sure the smart people in capitol hill will look at when compared to Trump's nonsense. My only argument against would be that when you look at the numbers like I provided above, DHS and our border patrol agents are already doing a fine job rounding people up and sending them back in record numbers. But i'm sure they can always use help.

If they want to commit (what a 100 million, or a billion) for more fencing or an increase in agents I would be fine with that because it would create jobs for people and that's always a positive thing.

But the moment steel and mortar begin to be layed for a "55 foot huge" fortress wall estimated at $6 million a mile and we'll have a problem.

 

[Bob the Citronaut]

They can't see tunnels or watch the entire border.

LOL. We can pinpoint the location of a single terrorist in a cave thousands of miles away in the middle of a desert but can't stop large groups of people from crossing our own border?

Right...except that's utter bullshit and i'll bring the facts to prove it.

DHS conducted 462,463 removals and returns in 2015 alone.
How many in 2014? 486,651

In reality, DHS set a record under the Obama administration with over 2 million removals between 2010 and 2014 alone, but i'm sure they were ordered to just baby sit them and not actually send them back.

The Source: DHS's own website.
https://www.dhs.gov/news/2015/12/22/dhs-releases-end-fiscal-year-2015-statistics

Keywords: Removals and Returns.
We wouldn't have to deport hundreds of thousands a people a year if our borders were secure. It's a crazy idea, I know. Stop them before they get here?!?!?!?

 

[MACHater02]

LOL. We can pinpoint the location of a single terrorist in a cave thousands of miles away in the middle of a desert but can't stop large groups of people from crossing our own border?



Keywords: Removals and Returns.
We wouldn't have to deport hundreds of thousands a people a year if our borders were secure. It's a crazy idea, I know. Stop them before they get here?!?!?!?

We can pinpoint those terrorist as a result of boots on the ground.

 

[UCFKnight85]

We can pinpoint those terrorist as a result of boots on the ground.

Not always. Drones can track identified targets for hours upon hours and then geolocation where they're putting the missile.

 

[CommuterBob]

I think there will be a wall, but instead of Mexico cutting a check it's going to be in the form of tariffs and whatever he negotiates with "new NAFTA"

in other words, US consumers will pay for it. Way to go Trump!!

 

[Bob the Citronaut]

We can pinpoint those terrorist as a result of boots on the ground.

Border agents aren't "boots on the ground"?

 

[Ace of Knights]

LOL. We can pinpoint the location of a single terrorist in a cave thousands of miles away in the middle of a desert but can't stop large groups of people from crossing our own border?



Keywords: Removals and Returns.
We wouldn't have to deport hundreds of thousands a people a year if our borders were secure. It's a crazy idea, I know. Stop them before they get here?!?!?!?

LOL keep on trying to work the spin machine Bob. But it's clear you didn't read the article. So i'll bring some more hard data and facts while you just keep bringing the garbage political conjecture.

Here is a quote DIRECTLY FROM DHS:

U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) Enforcement Efforts at and between Ports of Entry
The nation’s long-term investment in border security continued to produce significant and positive results in FY 2015. Illegal migration continued to decline compared to the peak in FY 2000, when the Border Patrol reported 1.6 million apprehensions. This fiscal year, the Border Patrol reported 337,117 apprehensions nationwide, compared to 486,651 last fiscal year. This represents a 30 percent decline since last year and an almost 80 percent decline since the peak of apprehensions in FY 2000.
https://www.dhs.gov/news/2015/12/22/dhs-releases-end-fiscal-year-2015-statistics

Over 300,000 apprehensions right at the border. Stop them before they get here you say. How? We can only stop them once they try to cross and we are already using drones and men to spot them when they try to. It seems to me that's exactly what Border Patrol has been doing. An 80% decrease since the peak in 2000!!!! Even a $40 billion massive wall wouldn't stop tunneling, climbing, or other smuggling efforts because they would just find another way. Our efforts are working.

Reality: Apprehension at the border, and catch and release is the lowest its ever been thanks to concerted efforts and investment in border security with the bulk of it coming while Obama was still in office. Believe it or not, its true.

 

[Poolside Knight]

I'd like to see the polling on how much the Nation cares about a wall and a hard line on Immigration from South of the Border. I remember seeing one poll that had what I think was over 60% favored a path to legalization.

 

[CommuterBob]

I'd like to see the polling on how much the Nation cares about a wall and a hard line on Immigration from South of the Border. I remember seeing one poll that had what I think was over 60% favored a path to legalization.

And how many illegals voted in that poll?*

 

[Bob the Citronaut]

So we're catching less people at the border and that's a good thing? Doesn't compute.

 

[Ace of Knights]

And how many illegals voted in that poll?*

Easily 3 to 5 million that shouldn't have. Maybe even Bernhard Langer.

 

[Poolside Knight]

So we're catching less people at the border and that's a good thing? Doesn't compute.

the physical migration has slowed down a lot in recent years since the Cartels control it. A lot of illegal immigration comes from flying in & overstaying their visas

And how many illegals voted in that poll?*

I just remember even during the Republican Primary it at best would poll as the the 3rd ranked concern in most State's exit polls. That's why I'm confused how it would be such a constant talking point.

I think there is more concern on the middle east refuge debate or China cheating the currency system more than an illegal picking oranges in Lake County.

 

[Ace of Knights]

So we're catching less people at the border and that's a good thing? Doesn't compute.

Haha. Not gonna lie that made me laugh because I know you're just playing now, but i'll bite anyways.

Yep. Catching less at the border because the statistics show that less are attempting to cross. What's really crazy to think about is how many we would have caught way back in 2000 if we had the technological capabilities we have today. Drones would have came in really handy back then.

As I said before, i'm all for border security. If they want to put up more fences and increase agents I would be fine with that. But I can't stand Trump's false narrative that our border is a porous hole in which illegals are just flooding into the U.S. at an insane amount. As poolside said, a lot of illegal immigration comes from people overstaying their visas.

 

[SublimeKnight]

in other words, US consumers will pay for it. Way to go Trump!!

Exactly. This is what drives me nuts about "fixing" the trade imbalance with Mexico (or anyone else) with tariffs. The end result of a mexican trade imbalance is that the US dollar is weaken a little and the Peso is strengthen a little. Are we envious of the peso's buying power?
So to fix this, we make Mexican goods artificially more expensive, which means a US dollar buys you less... or the alternative product gets built here for more than the original Mexican product and the US dollar still buys you less. Either way you weaken the US dollar.

Oh the Peso also gets weakened because they export less. So they develop slower and can buy fewer iPhones and other high-end tech we export. Which weakens our dollar even more.

But hey, the government takes in more cash and a handful of people get minimum wage jobs producing what Mexicans used to for even less.

Yay...

 

[UCFKnight85]

You guys don't seem to grasp that the 20% tariff is just posturing.

 

[Sir Galahad]

I quite enjoy that any come back you have comes down to me being young. All I hear is a grumpy old man yelling about the "good ole days".

Age has little to do with it, experience and accomplishment matters more. Judging from your posts, you have little of both.

 

[bqknight]

Age has little to do with it, experience and accomplishment matters more. Judging from your posts, you have little of both.

Jesus you're petty.

 

[Sir Galahad]

Jesus you're petty.

Or just just tired of voters like you who vote with little to know knowledge because you're a single issue voter.

 

[SublimeKnight]

Or just just tired of voters like you who vote with little to know knowledge because you're a single issue voter.

I too have grown tired of 99% of voters.

 

[MACHater02]

Border agents aren't "boots on the ground"?

You said thousands of miles away. Border Agents can't watch every mile of the border, nor can they see a tunnel from one house to another.

 

[goodknightfl]

I believe there will be a wall, not sure why any American would not support such a thing.

Because good fences make good neighbors.

I'm pretty much in agreement with this. It's a sane rational approach which i'm sure the smart people in capitol hill will look at when compared to Trump's nonsense. My only argument against would be that when you look at the numbers like I provided above, DHS and our border patrol agents are already doing a fine job rounding people up and sending them back in record numbers. But i'm sure they can always use help.

If they want to commit (what a 100 million, or a billion) for more fencing or an increase in agents I would be fine with that because it would create jobs for people and that's always a positive thing.

But the moment steel and mortar begin to be layed for a "55 foot huge" fortress wall estimated at $6 million a mile and we'll have a problem.

Trump can build it fast and under budget..

 

[Bob the Citronaut]

You said thousands of miles away. Border Agents can't watch every mile of the border, nor can they see a tunnel from one house to another.

Yes they can. Please refer to my point about finding a terrorist in a cave thousands of miles away.

 

[bqknight]

Or just just tired of voters like you who vote with little to know knowledge because you're a single issue voter.

I'm not a single issue voter - I just disagree with you on about everything. There's a difference.

 

[UCFKnight85]

You said thousands of miles away. Border Agents can't watch every mile of the border, nor can they see a tunnel from one house to another.

Again, you're wrong.

A small special forces team can effectively scan and monitor an area that is miles long by using existing drone surveillance and thermal imaging technology, which now can fit into a ruck sack and be supported by larger drones overhead. Enemies fear our operators because they can see them coming from miles away, preposition, and effectively kill them before they even know our team is nearby.

All of this COULD be fielded at the border, but it never was since the Obama Admin was sooooo terrified of being seen to "militarize" our border agents, even if the equipment was purely for surveillance and monitoring.

 

[bqknight]

Again, you're wrong.

A small special forces team can effectively scan and monitor an area that is miles long by using existing drone surveillance and thermal imaging technology, which now can fit into a ruck sack and be supported by larger drones overhead. Enemies fear our operators because they can see them coming from miles away, preposition, and effectively kill them before they even know our team is nearby.

All of this COULD be fielded at the border, but it never was since the Obama Admin was sooooo terrified of being seen to "militarize" our border agents, even if the equipment was purely for surveillance and monitoring.

85, you should run for president. You seem to have the answer for everything and it all seems super simple. Wonder why no one else can see it.

 

[Great2BAKnight2]

Not always. Drones can track identified targets for hours upon hours and then geolocation where they're putting the missile.

Bingo, we used "Spy Balloons" with advanced optics and tracking. We should be using the same thing for the southern border with motion and IR sensors. You don't need a wall in large swaths of unoccupied land, it doesn't make any financial sense from a sustainment perspective. In places like El Paso, the balloons are less effective so you employ other means of surveillance and detection.

Couple articles on the balloons in Afghanistan:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/13/world/asia/in-afghanistan-spy-balloons-now-part-of-landscape.html
http://www.navair.navy.mil/index.cfm?fuseaction=home.NAVAIRNewsStory&id=4610

 

[UCFKnight85]

85, you should run for president. You seem to have the answer for everything and it all seems super simple. Wonder why no one else can see it.

Are you just mad because I'm smacking down assertions that are so easily disprovable?

Or are you butthurt that I called out Obama for something that is true?

 

[bqknight]

Are you just mad because I'm smacking down assertions that are so easily disprovable?

Or are you butthurt that I called out Obama for something that is true?

I'm just applauding your intelligence. You seem to have an easy answer for everything. Like I said, maybe you should run for office.

 

[Sir Galahad]

I'm not a single issue voter - I just disagree with you on about everything. There's a difference.

Yet your knowledge of issues that is not your single issue is weak at best. I have nothing against you personally but unless you have paid more than your fair share of taxes and seen it wasted by idiot politicians on both sides, you have no clue about tax rates and public policies that rely on them. Your knowledge of foreign policy is lacking because the only president you probably remember was Obama who had no foreign policy. And so on and so on. When you are responsible for more than yourself maybe you to will view thing differently.

 

[bqknight]

Yet your knowledge of issues that is not your single issue is weak at best. I have nothing against you personally but unless you have paid more than your fair share of taxes and seen it wasted by idiot politicians on both sides, you have no clue about tax rates and public policies that rely on them. Your knowledge of foreign policy is lacking because the only president you probably remember was Obama who had no foreign policy. And so on and so on. When you are responsible for more than yourself maybe you to will view thing differently.

Do I not pay taxes? Since I do - you're bashing me on age again. Just because I am younger and haven't paid the same amount of taxes as you. I take care of more than just myself thank you, you do not know my life, I don't pretend to know yours. My parents, even some of my grandparents have similar if not even more liberal views than I do.

You're sounding like a fool really. If you disagree with me fine - we're allowed to have different opinions on things but your reasoning is basically I am too young to know anything. AKA - you're a grumpy old man who can't possibly believe anyone thinks differently than he does.

You can whine all you want but there's a large portion of this country who thinks exactly like I do - who have been alive longer than you and I and have gone through probably a lot more experience than both you and I. We believe in different things - it happens. Do I think you're wrong? Yes. Do you think I am wrong? Yes. At least admit to yourself that people can think differently and be smart enough to realize why.

I get why you think you do (for some things anyway) - I just think there is one way to go about fixing it and you have another thought about how to fix it. If someone my age happened to think like you (I know some) does the above still apply to them? Are they still too young to get it?

 

[UCF11and1]

Again, you're wrong.

A small special forces team can effectively scan and monitor an area that is miles long by using existing drone surveillance and thermal imaging technology, which now can fit into a ruck sack and be supported by larger drones overhead. Enemies fear our operators because they can see them coming from miles away, preposition, and effectively kill them before they even know our team is nearby.

All of this COULD be fielded at the border, but it never was since the Obama Admin was sooooo terrified of being seen to "militarize" our border agents, even if the equipment was purely for surveillance and monitoring.

Like everything, the problem is cost. Deployment of the surveillance tools we have may be cheap (I don't really know) but the problem would be how to get the border agents to the point where they are crossing on time. Until we get jet packs, they'll have to use helicopters (expensive to operate) and probably have to rappel or jump in parachutes (after Mexicans start crossing in places where landings are not possible). How many helicopters would we need to secure the borders? 50 miles separation about right (1/2 hour flight time)?

The solution (fastest, most efficient and cheapest) would be to use drones and just shoot whoever is crossing

 

[UCFWayne]

they start building that wall yet?

 

[MACHater02]

Again, you're wrong.

A small special forces team can effectively scan and monitor an area that is miles long by using existing drone surveillance and thermal imaging technology, which now can fit into a ruck sack and be supported by larger drones overhead. Enemies fear our operators because they can see them coming from miles away, preposition, and effectively kill them before they even know our team is nearby.

All of this COULD be fielded at the border, but it never was since the Obama Admin was sooooo terrified of being seen to "militarize" our border agents, even if the equipment was purely for surveillance and monitoring.

How much would this cost?

 

[Bob the Citronaut]

How much would this cost?

Oh I love this irony. When did libs all of a sudden become worried about balancing the check book? How much does it cost to deport half a million people a year after they get their due process through the court system?

 

[Bob the Citronaut]

How are we going to pay for the wall?!?!?!!??!!?!

How are we going to pay for infrastructure improvements?!?!!!?!!????

How are we going to pay for a normal sized military?!??!!??!!?

We have to pay for Solyndra, more entitlements, Obamacare, unemployment, massive trade deficits, infant genocide. Those are more important!!!