OK - So Rudy is Officially not Credible at all

[Crazyhole]

Bring it on! I'm totally OK with Rudy actually proving some big conspiracy against Joe Biden. I do not believe Rudy's judgement is credible, but even a broken clock can be right. So I hope he puts the documents out there for public scrutiny. Really good investigative journalists are going to dig into these claims like his previous ones, and we'll see what the full picture is.

But again, contrast what Rudy is doing compared to the FBI's investigation into the Trump campaign. Let's conflate them and say they are both cases of investigating charges of corrupt actions relating directly to a significant political figure.

The FBI treated it as highly sensitive and details of the investigation were largely kept out of the press until after the election. On the other hand, Rudy is expressly and admittedly on a PR campaign. The mere fact that he's the source creates the impression that the accusations are driven politically. By being so public - interviews and documentaries - it further establishes the political nature of the intentions.

We're all better off if Rudy kept his mouth shut and handed his evidence over to the FBI. Let them review and make investigative decisions that we can then run an IG investigation on after the fact to evaluate. This would once again put the FBI in an unwinnable position where any decision they make will ultimately be viewed as politically biased by the other side.

Question: If Schiff hired a personal attorney to go Russia with the express intent of digging up dirt on Trump for public consumption, would that be considered OK? Because it seems as though Trump is establishing a standard here that this is now business as usual.

The thing I find most interesting is the documents from Latvia and Cypress. If they are legit, the whole thing gains credence. If not, all he has is the word of a few Ukrainians who may be questionable.

Granted, rudy is definitely acting in a political manner but the guy is a pretty experienced prosecutor so it's not like some random political hack is doing this. His personality is off-putting, which makes it easy to be skeptical of him.

 

[Crazyhole]

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/tr...push-flip-script-trump-s-impeachment-n1106321

Here's a quick rundown on some Rudy's more recent claims.

One thing I noticed about that article was the reference to 5.3 billion dollars and they said that the government never gave Ukraine that amount of money, but then kind of backtrack a little bit. In the beck interview he does say 5.3 billion was laundered but he also says that 80% of it came from us. I couldn't tell if they were focusing on that exact number to discredit his claim, but they should have stated exactly how much money we have given them as a reference point to compare to his claim.

 

[Cubs79]

The thing I find most interesting is the documents from Latvia and Cypress. If they are legit, the whole thing gains credence. If not, all he has is the word of a few Ukrainians who may be questionable.

Granted, rudy is definitely acting in a political manner but the guy is a pretty experienced prosecutor so it's not like some random political hack is doing this. His personality is off-putting, which makes it easy to be skeptical of him.

He hasn't been a prosecutor in 30 years. He is much more of a politician than a prosecutor. And, he is currently acting as Trump's personal attorney, so obviously he isn't impartial, which is a reason to be skeptical, just like you would be skeptical of anyone's personal attorney.

 

[sk8knight]

Bring it on! I'm totally OK with Rudy actually proving some big conspiracy against Joe Biden. I do not believe Rudy's judgement is credible, but even a broken clock can be right. So I hope he puts the documents out there for public scrutiny. Really good investigative journalists are going to dig into these claims like his previous ones, and we'll see what the full picture is.

But again, contrast what Rudy is doing compared to the FBI's investigation into the Trump campaign. Let's conflate them and say they are both cases of investigating charges of corrupt actions relating directly to a significant political figure.

The FBI treated it as highly sensitive and details of the investigation were largely kept out of the press until after the election. On the other hand, Rudy is expressly and admittedly on a PR campaign. The mere fact that he's the source creates the impression that the accusations are driven politically. By being so public - interviews and documentaries - it further establishes the political nature of the intentions.

We're all better off if Rudy kept his mouth shut and handed his evidence over to the FBI. Let them review and make investigative decisions that we can then run an IG investigation on after the fact to evaluate. This would once again put the FBI in an unwinnable position where any decision they make will ultimately be viewed as politically biased by the other side.

Question: If Schiff hired a personal attorney to go Russia with the express intent of digging up dirt on Trump for public consumption, would that be considered OK? Because it seems as though Trump is establishing a standard here that this is now business as usual.

Except that Trump didn’t hire Rudy for the express purpose of digging up dirt on Biden in Ukraine. Trump tasked him with continuing the corruption clean up effort because we are giving them money and Trump has been looking at countries that we’re giving money to across the board. Then they find Biden involved in it and go down the path. You know the rest.

 

[Cubs79]

Except that Trump didn’t hire Rudy for the express purpose of digging up dirt on Biden in Ukraine. Trump tasked him with continuing the corruption clean up effort because we are giving them money and Trump has been looking at countries that we’re giving money to across the board. Then they find Biden involved in it and go down the path. You know the rest.

This isnt remotely true. Rudy is Trump's personal attorney, nothing more. He doesnt act in any official capacity for the US government. And they most certainly didnt just "find" Biden involved. The Biden situation has been public knowledge since 2014 or so. They specifically made it an issue when Biden decided to run against Trump and has been the frontrunner for much of the time since he announced.

 

[sk8knight]

This isnt remotely true. Rudy is Trump's personal attorney, nothing more. He doesnt act in any official capacity for the US government. And they most certainly didnt just "find" Biden involved. The Biden situation has been public knowledge since 2014 or so. They specifically made it an issue when Biden decided to run against Trump and has been the frontrunner for much of the time since he announced.

Did you know that Giuliani had been doing anti-corruption work in Ukraine well before Trump hires him? That Giuliani Security and Safety was hired by Vitaly Klitschko during his mayoral run to help clean up corruption?

But of course the only reason he went to Ukraine was to dig up dirt on Biden. Because CNN and MSNBC said so.

 

[Crazyhole]

Did you know that Giuliani had been doing anti-corruption work in Ukraine well before Trump hires him? That Giuliani Security and Safety was hired by Vitaly Klitschko during his mayoral run to help clean up corruption?

But of course the only reason he went to Ukraine was to dig up dirt on Biden. Because CNN and MSNBC said so.

Trump initially sent Rudy there to gather evidence against the Russia collusion accusation. That was when he started uncovering some of this stuff.

 

[DaShuckster]

Did you know that Giuliani had been doing anti-corruption work in Ukraine well before Trump hires him? That Giuliani Security and Safety was hired by Vitaly Klitschko during his mayoral run to help clean up corruption?

Funny how all of the Ukrainian money men that Giuliani worked for in Eastern Europe in his valiant, selfless efforts to uncover Ukrainian corruption are, or have direct ties with, prominent Russian oligarchs.

But nevermind that little tidbit. We all know the real foreign influence villain in the 2016 elections was little ol' Ukraine, not Big Bad Russia. It's like SO obvious, right guys?

 

[Cubs79]

Did you know that Giuliani had been doing anti-corruption work in Ukraine well before Trump hires him? That Giuliani Security and Safety was hired by Vitaly Klitschko during his mayoral run to help clean up corruption?

But of course the only reason he went to Ukraine was to dig up dirt on Biden. Because CNN and MSNBC said so.

They specifically asked Zelensky to investigate Biden. What Rudy did prior doesnt change that.

 

[Cubs79]

Trump initially sent Rudy there to gather evidence against the Russia collusion accusation. That was when he started uncovering some of this stuff.

He didnt uncover anything. All of this stuff had already been investigated.

 

[Crazyhole]

He didnt uncover anything. All of this stuff had already been investigated.

https://www.zerohedge.com/political...undering-scheme-court-filing-linking-debunked

2 days ago this came out. It had clearly not been investigated alread .

 

[DaShuckster]

https://www.zerohedge.com/political...undering-scheme-court-filing-linking-debunked

2 days ago this came out.

A 'breaking news' story by Tyler Durden complete with photo of Fight Club's Brad Pitt???!?

 

[Cubs79]

https://www.zerohedge.com/political...undering-scheme-court-filing-linking-debunked

2 days ago this came out. It had clearly not been investigated alread .

It seems a judge has already thrown it out, but secondly, I'm not seeing that is has anything to do with Rudy or Trump's "investigations".

 

[DaShuckster]

It seems a judge has already thrown it out, but secondly, I'm not seeing that is has anything to do with Rudy or Trump's "investigations".

Hmmm...

It would appear that Crazyhole has caught a severe case of confirmation bias.

 

[Crazyhole]

It seems a judge has already thrown it out, but secondly, I'm not seeing that is has anything to do with Rudy or Trump's "investigations".

You claimed that everything had already been investigated. Clearly this hasn't been if it was admitted into court. Being thrown out is a technicality because of how it was admitted

 

[Cubs79]

You claimed that everything had already been investigated. Clearly this hasn't been if it was admitted into court. Being thrown out is a technicality because of how it was admitted

Yeah, I'm gonna take this one with a huge grain of salt. It was filed by the lady he had a child with and a PI who doesnt appear to have connections to Ukraine or any of his businesses. But it also has nothing to do with Rudy or Trump, which is what the conversation was about.

And it was thrown out because money laundering is a criminal issue, this was filed by a PI on behalf of a woman who is seeking money. How the hell can money laundering be a part of child support suit?

 

[Crazyhole]

A 'breaking news' story by Tyler Durden complete with photo of Fight Club's Brad Pitt???!?

The entire staff at zero hedge uses that pseudonym when they report on political topics. FC has linked to zerohedge reporting in the past. It's a pretty well respected investment site.

 

[Crazyhole]

Yeah, I'm gonna take this one with a huge grain of salt. It was filed by the lady he had a child with and a PI who doesnt appear to have connections to Ukraine or any of his businesses. But it also has nothing to do with Rudy or Trump, which is what the conversation was about.

And it was thrown out because money laundering is a criminal issue, this was filed by a PI on behalf of a woman who is seeking money. How the hell can money laundering be a part of child support suit?

It was thrown out because of how it was filed, not because of its criminal aspect. But to the point, did anyone know about the Latvian and Cyprian parts of this story until a few days ago? It wasn't brought up when Devon Archer was charged with money laundering a couple of years ago, Rudy found this stuff out.

 

[Cubs79]

It was thrown out because of how it was filed, not because of its criminal aspect. But to the point, did anyone know about the Latvian and Cyprian parts of this story until a few days ago? It wasn't brought up when Devon Archer was charged with money laundering a couple of years ago, Rudy found this stuff out.

It was thrown out because it had nothing to do with the child support hearing and was just someone looking for more money. But no matter why it was thrown out, you can't act like something thrown out of court was some sort of damning evidence against the Biden's. It was an unsubstantiated claim by someone who had no connections to anything, and it hasn't been remotely proven.

Has any of the Rudy stuff been proven, or this is just BS he is spouting all over the news because he likes attention?

 

[Cubs79]

The entire staff at zero hedge uses that pseudonym when they report on political topics. FC has linked to zerohedge reporting in the past. It's a pretty well respected investment site.

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/zero-hedge/

This rates zerohedge as a conspiracy and pseudo science site.

 

[Crazyhole]

It was thrown out because it had nothing to do with the child support hearing and was just someone looking for more money. But no matter why it was thrown out, you can't act like something thrown out of court was some sort of damning evidence against the Biden's. It was an unsubstantiated claim by someone who had no connections to anything, and it hasn't been remotely proven.

Has any of the Rudy stuff been proven, or this is just BS he is spouting all over the news because he likes attention?

Well, at this point what we have are documents and testimonies from 3 different countries that all indicate that Biden was committing crimes. There is no counterargument other than saying it's an elaborate conspiracy theory. I would think that Latvia and cypress would have come forward by now stating that Rudy forged their documents if there wasn't something to this.

 

[Cubs79]

Well, at this point what we have are documents and testimonies from 3 different countries that all indicate that Biden was committing crimes. There is no counterargument other than saying it's an elaborate conspiracy theory. I would think that Latvia and cypress would have come forward by now stating that Rudy forged their documents if there wasn't something to this.

Links? And why haven't those countries charged him? And, why would you expect Latvia and Cypress come forward stating its false? I highly doubt they care about Hunter Biden, but even it is false they probably do want to remain on the presidents good side and probably aren't going to publicly speak out against him and Rudy.

 

[Crazyhole]

Links? And why haven't those countries charged him? And, why would you expect Latvia and Cypress come forward stating its false? I highly doubt they care about Hunter Biden, but even it is false they probably do want to remain on the presidents good side and probably aren't going to publicly speak out against him and Rudy.

I linked to an interview with Rudy where he laid it all out already.

 

[Crazyhole]

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/zero-hedge/

This rates zerohedge as a conspiracy and pseudo science site.

Lol. I love how they claim zerohedge is alt right and as proof they link to a Pat Buchanon article. Pat buchanon is nothing close to being alt right.

 

[Cubs79]

I linked to an interview with Rudy where he laid it all out already.

I am apparently overlooking your link because I don't see it. Regardless, Rudy saying something isn't proof of anything, and even if they do find something on Hunter Biden, it doesn't take away that Trump threatened to withhold funds unless a political rival was investigated.

 

[Cubs79]

Lol. I love how they claim zerohedge is alt right and as proof they link to a Pat Buchanon article. Pat buchanon is nothing close to being alt right.

Pat Buchanon most certainly has a lot of views in common with the Alt Right. The term might not have been around when he was in his hey day, but his views certainly overlap quite a bit with alt right views.

 

[sk8knight]

Lol. I love how they claim zerohedge is alt right and as proof they link to a Pat Buchanon article. Pat buchanon is nothing close to being alt right.

Remember, anyone to the right of raging socialist is whatever the pseudonym for evil they choose to use that day. Right now it’s alt-right.

 

[DaShuckster]

Remember, anyone to the right of raging socialist is whatever the pseudonym for evil they choose to use that day. Right now it’s alt-right.

Would you like me to quote some of 'moderate conservative' Pat Buchanan's crazyass sh*t???!?

 

[Crazyhole]

Pat Buchanon most certainly has a lot of views in common with the Alt Right. The term might not have been around when he was in his hey day, but his views certainly overlap quite a bit with alt right views.

So non-interventionalist is alt-right?

The guy literally wrote a book warning about the balkanization of america, which is exactly where we are today. He warned us that NAFTA would lead to huge trade deficits with European and Asian countries due to precedent, which it did. He warned about china and russia co-opting our economy. He warned about getting involved with Saudi Arabia.

Please tell me where he was wrong and why he is alt-right.

 

[Cubs79]

So non-interventionalist is alt-right?

The guy literally wrote a book warning about the balkanization of america, which is exactly where we are today. He warned us that NAFTA would lead to huge trade deficits with European and Asian countries due to precedent, which it did. He warned about china and russia co-opting our economy. He warned about getting involved with Saudi Arabia.

Please tell me where he was wrong and why he is alt-right.

Umm, his holocaust denial and attacking survivors was pretty wrong IMO. When he said the guy in Norway who killed 77 kids "may have been right", I think he was wrong about that. https://thinkprogress.org/pat-bucha...-terrorist-breivik-may-be-right-e15a3698fbd7/ His praises of Hitler, etc etc etc. Sounds pretty alt-right to me, but you are arguing he is a moderate conservative or what?

 

[Crazyhole]

Umm, his holocaust denial and attacking survivors was pretty wrong IMO. When he said the guy in Norway who killed 77 kids "may have been right", I think he was wrong about that. https://thinkprogress.org/pat-bucha...-terrorist-breivik-may-be-right-e15a3698fbd7/ His praises of Hitler, etc etc etc. Sounds pretty alt-right to me, but you are arguing he is a moderate conservative or what?

What you perceive as bias is actually just objectivism. If I say that Hitler was possibly the greatest leader of all time, your bias tells you that I say that in support of him. If you take that statement objectively, it's a totally different story. Imagine a person who convinces an entire country to go against their predisposition willingly. That is, by definition a great leader. So am I a NAZI for saying Hitler was a great leader?

Buchanon has never said that the Holocaust was a hoax and its ridiculous for anyone to make that claim. Same goes for the Norway shooting. An objective person doesnt advocate for one side or the other, they present an analysis of what happened and what led to it. If I were to say "well I can see why China kicked our asses in the Korean war", does that make me pro-China? If I say "well I can understand why mexicans want to come to the US" does that make me a bigot against Mexico?

 

[Cubs79]

What you perceive as bias is actually just objectivism. If I say that Hitler was possibly the greatest leader of all time, your bias tells you that I say that in support of him. If you take that statement objectively, it's a totally different story. Imagine a person who convinces an entire country to go against their predisposition willingly. That is, by definition a great leader. So am I a NAZI for saying Hitler was a great leader?

Buchanon has never said that the Holocaust was a hoax and its ridiculous for anyone to make that claim. Same goes for the Norway shooting. An objective person doesnt advocate for one side or the other, they present an analysis of what happened and what led to it. If I were to say "well I can see why China kicked our asses in the Korean war", does that make me pro-China? If I say "well I can understand why mexicans want to come to the US" does that make me a bigot against Mexico?

"Most historians believe it was logistically impossible to gas 6 million Jews and reduce their bodies to ashes;" "We have known for some time that the Auschwitz myth is of an exclusively Jewish origin;" "The same blinded people that believe that the Germans intentionally killed Jews — also believe the myth of the Anne Frank Diary;" and "Rightly or wrongly — the Jew was blamed for a lot of the problems that Germany suffered. The Jews were given years of warnings that they were unwelcome in Germany. A lot of Jews fled Germany in the late 1930s. The United States was not very anxious to accept very many. This was when White Christians still had a little control of our nation."
https://www.jewishexponent.com/2013/04/05/msnbc-turns-a-deaf-ear-to-pat-buchanans-holocaust-denial/

THis is the guy you are defending as a moderate conservative?

 

[Crazyhole]

"Most historians believe it was logistically impossible to gas 6 million Jews and reduce their bodies to ashes;" "We have known for some time that the Auschwitz myth is of an exclusively Jewish origin;" "The same blinded people that believe that the Germans intentionally killed Jews — also believe the myth of the Anne Frank Diary;" and "Rightly or wrongly — the Jew was blamed for a lot of the problems that Germany suffered. The Jews were given years of warnings that they were unwelcome in Germany. A lot of Jews fled Germany in the late 1930s. The United States was not very anxious to accept very many. This was when White Christians still had a little control of our nation."
https://www.jewishexponent.com/2013/04/05/msnbc-turns-a-deaf-ear-to-pat-buchanans-holocaust-denial/

THis is the guy you are defending as a moderate conservative?

Do you even read the stuff you link to? Those aren't his words, they are words of people who found a platform on his webpage which were subsequently taken down. Buchanon has literally never denied the holocaust. So dumb.

 

[Cubs79]

Do you even read the stuff you link to? Those aren't his words, they are words of people who found a platform on his webpage which were subsequently taken down. Buchanon has literally never denied the holocaust. So dumb.

Dude, his forum was a breeding ground for anti- Semites, and that didn't happen as a coincidence.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/pat-buchanans-holocaust-d_n_202224
In a March 17, 1990, syndicated column, Buchanan wrote that it would have been impossible for Jews to die in the gas chambers of the Treblinka death camp, and referred to a “so-called Holocaust survivor syndrome,” which he described as involving “group fantasies of martyrdom and heroics.”

Here he is comparing a Nazi war criminal to Jesus.

In his syndicated column of April 17, 2009, Buchanan not only called Demjanjuk “the sacrificial lamb whose blood washes away the stain of Germany’s sins,” but he wrote that the “spirit” behind the U.S. Justice Department’s efforts to bring Demjanjuk to justice is “the same satanic brew of hate and revenge that drove another innocent Man up Calvary that first Good Friday 2,000 years ago.”

Why in the world are you defending this dude? He has been a known anti- Semite and white nationalist for years.

 

[Crazyhole]

Dude, his forum was a breeding ground for anti- Semites, and that didn't happen as a coincidence.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/pat-buchanans-holocaust-d_n_202224
In a March 17, 1990, syndicated column, Buchanan wrote that it would have been impossible for Jews to die in the gas chambers of the Treblinka death camp, and referred to a “so-called Holocaust survivor syndrome,” which he described as involving “group fantasies of martyrdom and heroics.”

Here he is comparing a Nazi war criminal to Jesus.

In his syndicated column of April 17, 2009, Buchanan not only called Demjanjuk “the sacrificial lamb whose blood washes away the stain of Germany’s sins,” but he wrote that the “spirit” behind the U.S. Justice Department’s efforts to bring Demjanjuk to justice is “the same satanic brew of hate and revenge that drove another innocent Man up Calvary that first Good Friday 2,000 years ago.”

Why in the world are you defending this dude? He has been a known anti- Semite and white nationalist for years.

Holy crap. The treblinka comment was in reference to the theory that they mass-killed Jews with diesel fumes, not in general. The Demjanjuk thing was because he was being accused of being Ivan the Terrible, which he was cleared of by literally everyone. He went over the top calling him a sacrificial lamb, but the guy legitimately was being persecuted for a cause, not because of anything he was accused of.

 

[Cubs79]

Holy crap. The treblinka comment was in reference to the theory that they mass-killed Jews with diesel fumes, not in general. The Demjanjuk thing was because he was being accused of being Ivan the Terrible, which he was cleared of by literally everyone. He went over the top calling him a sacrificial lamb, but the guy legitimately was being persecuted for a cause, not because of anything he was accused of.

He wasn't cleared of being a Nazi war criminal though. So even if he wasn't Ivan the Terrible, he was still a freaking Nazi that Buchanan was comparing to Jesus. People who aren't anti- Semitic don't compare Nazi's to Jesus. I don't understand why are you are so defensive of Buchanan.

 

[Crazyhole]

He wasn't cleared of being a Nazi war criminal though. So even if he wasn't Ivan the Terrible, he was still a freaking Nazi that Buchanan was comparing to Jesus. People who aren't anti- Semitic don't compare Nazi's to Jesus. I don't understand why are you are so defensive of Buchanan.

You dont see a difference between being a NAZI soldier and being ivan the terrible? If all germans were held to that standard then every soldier in the war would have been imprisoned. Sometimes people get drug into terrible acts but that doesnt mean they are inherently evil. The guy was unjustly accused of being in charge of some of the worst things imaginable.

 

[Cubs79]

You dont see a difference between being a NAZI soldier and being ivan the terrible? If all germans were held to that standard then every soldier in the war would have been imprisoned. Sometimes people get drug into terrible acts but that doesnt mean they are inherently evil. The guy was unjustly accused of being in charge of some of the worst things imaginable.

My bad, he was one of the good hearted Nazi's, you changed my mind.

 

[Crazyhole]

My bad, he was one of the good hearted Nazi's, you changed my mind.

The closest thing that I can find that is an anti-semitic quote is this:

"Absolutely, and let me tell you — I mean for me, I think two weeks ago or so, we celebrated, or took a moment or so in our country to remember the Holocaust.".

Totally within context, but very poorly stated.

 

[Knight_Classes_begin_7pm]

Rudy is the Sec of State, he's credible.

hahahahaha! the crazy old fool has gone criminal!...but why?