Our basketball programs could seriously impact our chance for B12 invite
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By the way the "ignore" feature is awesome for posters who come here and say the same thing over and over and believe that the more they say it the more it is true.
I can respect that. So you are happy with the B12 at 10 members and don't think they should expand. Just out of curiosity, do you spend as much time on the Cincinnati board telling them that they are not worthy? Or is it just UCF fans you like to pick on?
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The one thing you may not be considering is how much farther the B12 is going to fall behind other P5 conferences financially if nothing changes. Conference revenue is currently generated by TV sets far more than anything else. The B12 is a nightmare for generating TV revenue. One huge state, and four very tiny baby sister states that TV execs couldn't care less about.
It may not make a huge difference right away, but expanding into Florida (the largest, realistic "available" state outside of the current B12 footprint) could pay big dividends in the not too distant future. Florida has almost 3.1 million MORE TV households than Oklahoma, Kansas, Iowa and West Virginia COMBINED. And that gap is only going to get bigger as Florida continues to grow. So, even if a smaller percentage of the Florida population CURRENTLY identifies as a UCF fan than current non-Texas B12 teams, that's still a lot of TV households now with huge potential for growth in the future.
I think UCF is a top 5 choice for Big12 inclusion. But they likely won't choose any school because "if in the Big12, fans would show up." I'm sure Old Dominion fans would show up if they were playing teams like Texas, Oklahoma, Baylor, etc every week. Fan attendance now, market size, and past and recent on the field success will dictate more than future potential in my opinion. Although I am not saying that potential is not important. I just doubt it is important to the thus-far-reactionary conference leadership in the Big12. The Big12 is the Big East 2.0 as far as being reactionary instead of proactive is concerned. We are dealing with demonstrated short term thinkers. Plenty of schools will flourish with Power 5 money.
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The one thing that makes basketball easier to fix is that it only requires a good (not great) coach and a couple of top-notch guys and you can be competitive real quick. Look at SMU. They hired Larry Brown and instantly became a good, competitive team. Point is basketball programs are easier to turn around than a bad football program. We have a mediocre or worse basketball program at this time, and a sub-par coach.
I can respect that. So you are happy with the B12 at 10 members and don't think they should expand. Just out of curiosity, do you spend as much time on the Cincinnati board telling them that they are not worthy? Or is it just UCF fans you like to pick on?
The one thing you may not be considering is how much farther the B12 is going to fall behind other P5 conferences financially if nothing changes. Conference revenue is currently generated by TV sets far more than anything else. The B12 is a nightmare for generating TV revenue. One huge state, and four very tiny baby sister states that TV execs couldn't care less about.
It may not make a huge difference right away, but expanding into Florida (the largest, realistic "available" state outside of the current B12 footprint) could pay big dividends in the not too distant future. Florida has almost 3.1 million MORE TV households than Oklahoma, Kansas, Iowa and West Virginia COMBINED. And that gap is only going to get bigger as Florida continues to grow. So, even if a smaller percentage of the Florida population CURRENTLY identifies as a UCF fan than current non-Texas B12 teams, that's still a lot of TV households now with huge potential for growth in the future.
Why stop at UCF to get all this TV revenue? Why not get buffalo from the Mac to get NYC and temple to get Philadelphia? It's all about the TV revenue right? One big state and a bunch of baby states so expect the P5 to get rid of their schools who are not in a "huge state". Geography, academics, fan base and ATHLETIC SUCCESS are just as Important as tv market. Stop clinging to the tv argument. UCF would have been in the P5 already if it was the sole factor like you think it is.
Where did I ever say TV was the only factor? However, TV revenue does seem to be one of the biggest factors. UCF's fan base appears to be larger than TCU's fan bas was before they were invited to the B12.
As for academics, there are so many different systems that rank universities...some rank UCF quite well and others not so much. UCF is involved in one or two consortiums that include a couple of B12 schools and we are classified in the highest Carnegie category of research institutions.
Are you like 12? Your logic would support that. Ummmm... because Buffalo is 400 miles from NYC... Duhhhh.... Yes Athletic success Geography, academics, fan base and ATHLETIC SUCCESS are important, and who in the G5 has had more success than UCF in all of the above and has the TV Market? See where this goes? Neither team you mentioned has any of the necessary requirements.
Thanks for ignoring geography. Academics? Ok not quite. Fan base? Student enrollment doesn't equate fanbase. Athletic success? Shoot Houston is about a year away from passing UCF in that department.
So I have BYU, Cincy, Houston, Memphis and then UCF as my top 5 G5 in that order. Temple, UConn and Boise the next tier. That's kind of me right? Top 5 in something
BYU would be preferable if it were not for the baggage they evidently bring. If they could get passed all of that they would be the #1.
What really does Cincy bring? Better basketball for sure, but we all know that does not mean much. Football is mediocre has been good in the past. Market is good but not great overall growth potential. Cincinnati is a big city but UC is not even in the top 3 in that market. In a current downswing, but a solid choice overall from the G5. I think UC has its position simply because it was part of the CUSA and BE and people have an understanding of who they are because of that.
Houston: they are on an upswing, but UCF has excelled over them in the CUSA and AAC. They also are in a market already within the B12 footprint. they do not have the potential of adding much in additional value to the B12 TV revenue. Probably a political candidate due to their position within Texas.
Memphis: This is a knee jerk pick. Memphis has 12+ years of complete disaster football seasons and one year of "success" in which they split the conference championship with UCF. They wet the bed last year and Fuente hauled butt out of town. As a football program, even with 0-12 UCF has a much better track record. Memphis basketball is losing ground now that it is in the AAC. No real market to speak of.
UCF: A solid history of program growth, but in a downswing and transitional position. 0-12 looks bad but I think we will see it as a blip and not a trend. Massive potential in fan base. already has the upper hand in the Orlando market due the number of UCF grads settling there. Yes student body size does equate to fan base, it is inevitable. Even if the percentage supporting is low, the sheer number of grads will eventually equate to a large fan base. Market size is good, and potential is high. Basketball sucks, but hopefully change is on the way.
I put it here: BYU, UCF, USF, UC: Next tier UH, UCONN. Boise is too remote and too small to be considered.
1st tier - Navy, BYU, Cincy, UConn, Houston
2nd tier - Western Kentucky, Southern Miss, Marshall, the rest of the AAC except UCF
3rd tier - rest of the MWC
4th tier - rest of CUSA
5th tier - MAC schools
6th tier - FCS schools
7th tier - Sun Belt
8th tier - Furman
9th tier - UCF
2nd tier - Western Kentucky, Southern Miss, Marshall, the rest of the AAC except UCF
3rd tier - rest of the MWC
4th tier - rest of CUSA
5th tier - MAC schools
6th tier - FCS schools
7th tier - Sun Belt
8th tier - Furman
9th tier - UCF
Lol. I see people are still arguing with the Gator Troll. He puts Knight in his name, but continues to talk absolute crap about UCF. No true person who is a fan of this school even when they are being objective would put us behind UConn and Memphis. That's how I know he is full of s*it.
He argues for athletic success but continues to ignore the fact that before we went 0-12 we won at least 9 games in 4 out of 5 years. He continues to ignore that we we were ranked at the finish in 10, and 13 with us going 12-1 in 2013. You can't argue for athletic success and only bring up last year and ignore every other year possible. But that is what he does because it fits his argument and riles people up around here which is his main goal.
PUT HIM ON IGNORE, he will go away.
He argues for athletic success but continues to ignore the fact that before we went 0-12 we won at least 9 games in 4 out of 5 years. He continues to ignore that we we were ranked at the finish in 10, and 13 with us going 12-1 in 2013. You can't argue for athletic success and only bring up last year and ignore every other year possible. But that is what he does because it fits his argument and riles people up around here which is his main goal.
PUT HIM ON IGNORE, he will go away.
You moron I didn't put UConn ahead of UCF. You probably ignored me like a coward so you won't read this.
It is inevitable if you assume a winning program is inevitable. Like it or not, it largely revolves around UCF demonstrating the big 12 that they won't be the league doormat like UK is to the sec or Kansas is to the big 12. One way to show that is to defeat P5 teams. UCF would have been in the big 12 already had they won the games they lost v the P5 teams they played in the past 5 years. Apply Boise state and pre big 12 TCUs resume to UCF and they are a lock. I've said this in another post.
I'm not blindly hating on UCF like most of you think. I'm just pushing back at this notion that it's ok if they just plod through the next few seasons that their tv market will guide them to the promised land. It sounds delusional and entitled.
You have to admit thats the perception of UCF from a P5 fan perspective like yourself right?
It is inevitable if you assume a winning program is inevitable. Like it or not, it largely revolves around UCF demonstrating the big 12 that they won't be the league doormat like UK is to the sec or Kansas is to the big 12.
No it is inevitable just based upon the numbers. Given enough years UCF will continue to gain on other programs in this market. It has already happened even with the on and off again seasons. UCF has already shown that it can bring a steady 30k even with the worst of seasons and in the AAC. Bring in a B12 lineup and the numbers will skyrocket.
UCF would have been in the big 12 already had they won the games they lost v the P5 teams they played in the past 5 years. Apply Boise state and pre big 12 TCUs resume to UCF and they are a lock. I've said this in another post.
While winning would help I don't think it would have equated to an invite just because UCF has always been behind in terms of conference affiliation. Boise has not won all of its P5 opponents only about half and some of those were not the best teams. No matter what UCF does people pin it on an "easy schedule" If UCF gets the nod it will because of its size and location.
I'm not blindly hating on UCF like most of you think. I'm just pushing back at this notion that it's ok if they just plod through the next few seasons that their tv market will guide them to the promised land. It sounds delusional and entitled
It is not delusional in the least to believe that UCF is a good candidate for the B12. Do you know what "entitled" means? it means believing oneself to be inherently deserving of special treatment. There are no fans that believe that we are inherently deserving of anything. Anything we have we have earned. All of the positive attributes which make us a great candidate are things that have come to UCF as a result of good business practices or hard work. You do not think you are blindly hating on UCF because you are a condescending fan of a P5 program who judges UCF's accomplishments through the biased eyes of a program that wants for nothing and has a 100 year head start.
No it is inevitable just based upon the numbers. Given enough years UCF will continue to gain on other programs in this market. It has already happened even with the on and off again seasons. UCF has already shown that it can bring a steady 30k even with the worst of seasons and in the AAC. Bring in a B12 lineup and the numbers will skyrocket.
UCF would have been in the big 12 already had they won the games they lost v the P5 teams they played in the past 5 years. Apply Boise state and pre big 12 TCUs resume to UCF and they are a lock. I've said this in another post.
While winning would help I don't think it would have equated to an invite just because UCF has always been behind in terms of conference affiliation. Boise has not won all of its P5 opponents only about half and some of those were not the best teams. No matter what UCF does people pin it on an "easy schedule" If UCF gets the nod it will because of its size and location.
I'm not blindly hating on UCF like most of you think. I'm just pushing back at this notion that it's ok if they just plod through the next few seasons that their tv market will guide them to the promised land. It sounds delusional and entitled
It is not delusional in the least to believe that UCF is a good candidate for the B12. Do you know what "entitled" means? it means believing oneself to be inherently deserving of special treatment. There are no fans that believe that we are inherently deserving of anything. Anything we have we have earned. All of the positive attributes which make us a great candidate are things that have come to UCF as a result of good business practices or hard work. You do not think you are blindly hating on UCF because you are a condescending fan of a P5 program who judges UCF's accomplishments through the biased eyes of a program that wants for nothing and has a 100 year head start.
http://www.usnews.com/education/bes...rsities-with-the-highest-undergrad-enrollment
Looking at this article it also means Liberty University, FIU and Devry will gain too.
Your sarcastic trolling tone aside for FIU, yes. With the exception that they are 25 years behind UCF they will eventually be a marketing force in south and central Florida. Liberty does not focus on athletics but if they did they will also have a base. Your mention of Devry just shows you are a douchebag looking for any argument.
Funny that 6 of the institutions you have quoted in your smirky way are successful P5 programs and 3 of them are among the top programs in the country. Gee maybe there is a correlation there.
All im reading is personal attack, personal attack, personal attack.
Can you explain the other three schools on the list? Btw you do know that Liberty has been attempting to grow their athletic department right?
Yippee...another adolescent, pre-teen who hides behind a "knight" handle to make silly statements.
![[jumpingsmile]](http://l.yimg.com/j/assets/img/emoticons/happy/happy0028.r191677.gif "Jumping Smile [jumpingsmile]")
Wake me up when Liberty, FIU or DeVry win a BCS/Access Bowl, finish in the Top 25 and Top 10, and win 31 games in three years against the same level of competition we played.
Also wake me up when they have an average football attendance above 37,000 per game for six straight years, with several years over 40,000.
No, MasterKnight has no clue what the word entitled actually means. He continually misuses it either out of ignorance or arrogance.
Yippee...another adolescent, pre-teen who hides behind a "knight" handle to make silly statements.
Ok correction
1st tier - Navy, BYU, Cincy, UConn, Houston
2nd tier - Western Kentucky, Southern Miss, Marshall, the rest of the AAC except UCF
3rd tier - rest of the MWC
4th tier - rest of CUSA
5th tier - MAC schools
6th tier - FCS schools
7th tier - Sun Belt
8th tier - Furman
9th tier - Stetson, North Florida, Eckard
10th tier - Central Florida.
The truth is Central Florida is a mess. The last year of the GOL era was a waste. The 9th tier teams did what Central Florida didnt do and thats win a game.
The money Central Florida blew on GOL was a a waste. Sure you hired Frost, but until then the Central Florida Knights is in a mess. I know you don't want to hear it but im going to say it anyways.
I brought up these other schools because SCKnight mentioned how big our school is and it was inevitable that we will progress just because of sheer size. So i brought up Liberty, FIU and Devry and demand he give me an explanation. He couldnt. I respect his support for this program but to say the size of our school will eventually get us where need to be is naive.
Then you bring up our attendance - 37k a year - the worst of the biggest 10 besides those schools i demanded an explanation for. Useless.
Square your support for the program is admirable and i respect SCKnight's appreciation too. I respect both your support for them. That said just because you support the program doesnt mean youre right. UCF is in a mess right now. GOL was lucky to have 2013, otherwise his years especially after when Bortles left was a waste. Scott Frost seems to be in the right hire and DJ needs four more years with his guys. Maybe you guys just need to step, define what a real program is and realize UCF hasnt moved as far as you thought.
No you twerps. I have been using the word correctly. You blowhards think that being in the Orlando tv market entitles UCF to a P5 invite. Comprende?
Yippee...another adolescent, pre-teen who hides behind a "knight" handle to make silly statements.
I'm pretty sure the two are the same person. It's time to do something about this.
Its called Ignore feature...heck...just look at what boards these trolls post on (even non-UCF named ones) and they only post on this board.
Yep, ignore. If this guy(s) is so weak that he has to hide behind a Knight screen name its not even worth the effort to read his shitty posts.
Maybe you cant read but I explained the others on the list. FIU, if they had the amount of time that UCF had in athletics would be a real force in South Florida market. Eventually I believe they will. Liberty has athletics but they do not focus on them. They started as a small Christian university and they have grown considerably. But they too are years behind where UCF is, but if they continue on they will eventually have a large fan base. Devry has no athletics. So your argument, if there is one has no merit. If those schools had a long time focus on athletics like UCF they would have grown into potential candidates.
I brought up these other schools because SCKnight mentioned how big our school is and it was inevitable that we will progress just because of sheer size. So i brought up Liberty, FIU and Devry and demand he give me an explanation. He couldnt. I respect his support for this program but to say the size of our school will eventually get us where need to be is naive.
Are you thick? It is already happening. Of all of the G5 programs UCF is the only program that actually has a hold on its market. The sheer number of UCF grads in Orlando has propelled UCF forward. It will continue to grow as the university continues to pump out grads. The number of fans of UCF athletics began its boost in 2007 when the on-campus stadium brought the game to the masses rather than requiring the trip to the Citrus Bowl. Take a look at this map http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/10/03/upshot/ncaa-football-map.html?_r=1#10,28.515,-81.186 and tell me where you see that big spot of grey around UCF. Do you see any other G5 program with that kind of market hold? Even where it is light blue around it UCF is in the top 3. Do you think this comes from just winning a few conference championships over the last 12 years? No, it comes from that and the kind of explosive growth that UCF has had over the last 20 years. This map represents the explosion of UCF grads in the central Florida area. It is like a crater with UCF in the middle and it is expanding outward, not imploding. So tell me again how earning this type of share of the Florida market shows an entitlement "just because we are located in Orlando". No, UCF HAS earned this market and should be able to use that in making their case for G5 inclusion.
Then you bring up our attendance - 37k a year - the worst of the biggest 10 besides those schools i demanded an explanation for. Useless.
Really, my argument was that it was inevitable that UCF would own the Orlando market because of the sheer number of grads it is pouring into the area, and it has already begun. For you to expect that UCF should be matching the attendance numbers of the top programs of the county in Michigan, Ohio state Penn state, Texas A&M and the like it just moronic. UCF has been top three G5 attendance for years. 30k+ when we are 0-12! How many other teams would have 30k when they are 0-12? That shows a true and dedicated fan base.
GOL was lucky to have 2013, otherwise his years especially after when Bortles left was a waste.
Yes going from obscurity to winning bowl games, multiple conference championships and a BCS bowl game was a waste. Having more success than any other G5 program not named Boise was useless. Taking multiple recruits with 2 stars, no offers to speak of and beating 2 top 10 teams in a season where you go 12-1 and win a BCS bowl game where you are more than a 2 touchdown underdog is just lucky. also winning your second AAC championship after your Junior QB and Junior RB are both drafted, one in the top 10 , is also a waste. You make a compelling argument.
Scott Frost seems to be in the right hire and DJ needs four more years with his guys. Maybe you guys just need to step, define what a real program is and realize UCF hasnt moved as far as you thought.
So define what a "real" program is. Try and do that without sounding pompous and condescending. Then tell me which other G5 programs fit that description and why. Then tell me how someone becomes a "real" program without the resources that are available simply by virtue of being in a P5 conference. The truth is as soon as you use the term "real program" you tip your hat. It means that your bias is not factually based.
Are you thick? It is already happening. Of all of the G5 programs UCF is the only program that actually has a hold on its market. The sheer number of UCF grads in Orlando has propelled UCF forward. It will continue to grow as the university continues to pump out grads. The number of fans of UCF athletics began its boost in 2007 when the on-campus stadium brought the game to the masses rather than requiring the trip to the Citrus Bowl. Take a look at this map http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/10/03/upshot/ncaa-football-map.html?_r=1#10,28.515,-81.186 and tell me where you see that big spot of grey around UCF. Do you see any other G5 program with that kind of market hold? Even where it is light blue around it UCF is in the top 3. Do you think this comes from just winning a few conference championships over the last 12 years? No, it comes from that and the kind of explosive growth that UCF has had over the last 20 years. This map represents the explosion of UCF grads in the central Florida area. It is like a crater with UCF in the middle and it is expanding outward, not imploding. So tell me again how earning this type of share of the Florida market shows an entitlement "just because we are located in Orlando". No, UCF HAS earned this market and should be able to use that in making their case for G5 inclusion.
Then you bring up our attendance - 37k a year - the worst of the biggest 10 besides those schools i demanded an explanation for. Useless.
Really, my argument was that it was inevitable that UCF would own the Orlando market because of the sheer number of grads it is pouring into the area, and it has already begun. For you to expect that UCF should be matching the attendance numbers of the top programs of the county in Michigan, Ohio state Penn state, Texas A&M and the like it just moronic. UCF has been top three G5 attendance for years. 30k+ when we are 0-12! How many other teams would have 30k when they are 0-12? That shows a true and dedicated fan base.
GOL was lucky to have 2013, otherwise his years especially after when Bortles left was a waste.
Yes going from obscurity to winning bowl games, multiple conference championships and a BCS bowl game was a waste. Having more success than any other G5 program not named Boise was useless. Taking multiple recruits with 2 stars, no offers to speak of and beating 2 top 10 teams in a season where you go 12-1 and win a BCS bowl game where you are more than a 2 touchdown underdog is just lucky. also winning your second AAC championship after your Junior QB and Junior RB are both drafted, one in the top 10 , is also a waste. You make a compelling argument.
Scott Frost seems to be in the right hire and DJ needs four more years with his guys. Maybe you guys just need to step, define what a real program is and realize UCF hasnt moved as far as you thought.
So define what a "real" program is. Try and do that without sounding pompous and condescending. Then tell me which other G5 programs fit that description and why. Then tell me how someone becomes a "real" program without the resources that are available simply by virtue of being in a P5 conference. The truth is as soon as you use the term "real program" you tip your hat. It means that your bias is not factually based.
Silly Boy. The only thing we don't like to hear around here is ignorant comments from someone who has such an anti UCF agenda they say things that are not even remotely accurate.
Putting UCF at the very end of such a long list of schools shows you're not actually here to have a serious discussion.
Fact is, an independent study has already been done showing that BYU and UCF were the most valuable schools outside the P5 that are available.
Well we obviously aren't a real program. At least not yet. GOL left the program in a mess. Except for one maybe two years GOL was a waste. DJ is fine. You sitting here flaunting a map that also lists Fresno State as an influence in its footprint doesnt prove anything.
The only person that is silly are the fans that think this mess of a program is big time. As i said the last time, i respect that youre a fan of the program, but dont think because you can call me a silly boy doesnt change the fact that this program is in a mess right now. You keep talking about these independent studies. Show me and please let it not be run by the UCF/BYU studies to join the P5. Otherwise lets wait for Scott Frost to turn around the poor decisions made by this program except for DJ and maybe Rooney of course.
I'm going to have to disagree with you on "DJ is fine"..........we're going to be sub .500 again, and getting embarrassed again. Donnie and his staff cannot coach. Look at McBride. The proof is in the numbers alone. Next season we might go .500 or slightly above
GOL left the program in a mess. Sometimes you have to admit atrocities before you can move on.
Actually it does. You're just too biased or ignorant to see it. So, Fresno State is the top team in their tiny market. If you knew anything about California (I lived there for 8 years) you would know that Fresno is like it's own little world and a LONG way away from anyplace else.
The fact that UCF is the top team in the MUCH larger Orlando market is significant because of the close proximity of UF and the fact that UF had a huge head start as a school and as an athletic program. The fact that UCF has caught up to the Gators in such a short time is EXTREMELY significant.
GOL did leave the program a mess. Many games were blowouts. Coaches left early. But remember, many items GOL put in place still remain such as facilities (stadium), several bowl game wins, increased fan base, etc. Best case scenario is that the talent comes out of our current football group and we get a bowl game. Other items that are fact are florida based recruiting and the orlando-florida TV market, school size and alumni base.
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