SCOTUS rules in favor of bakery in gay wedding cake case
- Thread starter CommuterBob
- Start date
Poorly worded question since it makes the assumption that both are hateful. I don't think the baker harbored any hatred at all.
I really don't care that the baker didn't bake the cake - I've stated this many times before. However - I do have a serious questions.
In these cases - why is being gay a sin that cannot be overlooked but the rest of the rules the Bible outlines are okay to break? I've never gotten the whole pick and choose thing.
In these cases - why is being gay a sin that cannot be overlooked but the rest of the rules the Bible outlines are okay to break? I've never gotten the whole pick and choose thing.
Who says this guy "breaks" every other rule?
The fundamental point of this ruling is simple- protections for gay couples is a needed part of society, but so is protection of basic religious expression and belief. The court outlined, clearly, that this "commission" in CO was run by anti-religious bigots and people openly hostile to religion who had no intention of giving this guy a fair hearing.
You are trying to use logic on religion. Honey you should know that doesn't work by now. These people want to be bigots so they dredge up "muh Bible" to allow them the opportunity. Simple as that.
think he even gave them the option of making a standard cake and that they could decorate it themselves. he just didnt want to specifically make a wedding cake. he didnt deny them buying cookies or other products, just a wedding cake.
85 - I'm not talking about this case. Or this guy. Like I said, I don't care that he doesn't want to bake a cake.
Now, do you have an answer to my question? I'm genuinely curious.
That’s a worthy question. I’m guessing that this guy would refuse to bake a cake celebrating pedophilia, incest, adultery, murder, etc. as well. But we’ll never know.
We've had these discussions here in the past and this always gets blasted by the religion haters and aetheists, but I don't think being gay is a sin. However, I've always been taught that homosexual acts are. Don't hate the sinner, hate the sin type deal.
Jesus. Will no one answer the question?
I am NOT talking about this particular dude, with his cake. I'm asking why being a homo is a horrible sin to some but the other rules in the Bible are NBD to those same people. How do they justify it?
So are those homosexual acts worse than the other sins the Bible mentions? Cause if so, I'd venture to say we're all big sinners.
I'm disappointed it took almost 50 posts before we finally got around to comparing homosexuality to pedophilia. WC really has gone downhill
I’m guessing no one here can answer because most people on this board don’t think you are sinning any more than those of us who are gluttons, lazy, or adulterous. I certainly can’t understand the drive to try to purge your community from existence.
i think you might need to specify which rules you are referring to so that the religious people might be able to answer on a case by case basis
Of course you don't.
By the way, does your quote "from a religious aspect, I could say they were doing it out love for their fellow man" also apply to Muslims or just Christianity? Do you have the same repect for all people who do things in the name of their religion?
Fixed.
How do simpletons like you and Fab manage to flip an actual case of discrimination around and believe the oppressors are the oppressed? That takes some serious mental gymnastics.
I try to avoid this because it isnt a popular idea on either side, but you seem sincere in your question so I want to respond.
The definition of sin has been brought down to the level of act=punishment, or more accurately the idea that if you do "x", god is going to punish you. I don't believe that to be true. "Sin" is anything that stands in the way of having a close relationship with God. The 10 commandments are really important for us to follow because if we break those commandments it will make it more difficult to accept Gods grace and forgiveness. Not because he will condemn us but because guilt or shame gets in the way of feeling his forgiveness. Much of leviticus ia based on that same premise but much of it was based on the idea of setting the Israelites apart from others. Does eating lobster or pork get in the way of receiving Gods grace? Nope, but it was a way of setting the Jews apart from others. Homosexuality falls somewhere in the middle of those 2 ideas. Is it difficult socially for a homosexual to be outward about their homosexuality? Yep. Due to that it creates a level of guilt or shame (uncomfortability included here) and that can stand in the way of accepting grace. As time has passed that level of guilt has increased and diminished but it will probably never reach the level of acceptance that heterosexual relations have due to procreation and the feeling that it is natures way.
Its a long conversation and can't really be summed up with a bullet point or two and i wouldn't want to try, but IMO homosexuality is no more a sin than anything else that could stand in the way of leading a righteous life and accepting Gods forgiveness. To me, it isnt much different than when Paul said that it is better to not be married. We still get married, and it pulls us in different directions, but neither condemns us in Gods eyes.
Funny, you are the one putting homosexuality in the same category as murder and pedophilia and feel like you can talk down to me.
You are literally just a troll at this point, and not even a good one.
Apparently having no religion gives you that license? Nobody else can have it as well?
I only listed them as things that guy would probably consider sins that he wouldn't bake a cake for. So I guess that you're right that they're in that very specific category of what I'm positing that some random cake guy would or wouldn't bake a cake for. There certainly was no implication of any type of moral equivalency there and you don't know me well enough to know if I would ever even imply one.
Your response was lazy because you saw a juxtaposition and stretched that into some strawman that I hate homosexuals enough to equate them to murders and pedophiles. Which is both lazy and extremely inaccurate. But, of course, you wouldn't know the inaccuracy of it because you don't know me.
Also, I've been giving you the benefit of the doubt and holding conversations with substance with you for quite some time so I'm not really sure how you can call me a troll because I called you out on a lazy opinion. Oh and because I disagree with you on Israel.
How is this so difficult for you people to understand? This baker made a dick move, and I called them out for being a dick. I don't give a shit what excuse they use, I'll call them out.
Much better response. I wasn't saying you hate homosexuals, its just that people who probably do hate homosexuals have used it extensively on here in the past and its just such a terrible argument.
Actually, it applies to all religion that are not hell bent on establishing a theocracy or offering a choice of conversion or death.
Yes, I do, as difficult as it may be.
This guy must be a helluva baker if they had to have their cake baked by him. Or did this couple target him for his beliefs? Were they actually harmed or did they achieve the result they were looking for? Both sides are intolerant of each other and this all could have been avoided if they chose a gay friendly bakery, but that isn't what they were after.
Preach it brother! And that bitch Rosa Parks should have just stayed in the back of the bus, or chosen a black friendly bus line. Hell yeah MAGA!
Yup. Most people don't realize it but there was actually more than one bus in the city at the same time. Glad to find another soldier fighting the good fight against these goddamn liberals. MAGA brother!!!
If you are a person of faith, you have no business hating homosexuals. U are to hate the sin not the sinner. I think this baker did just that. He offered to make cake and they decorate it, or even offered to help them find another baker.
how many other bakeries were within the same driving radius as masterpiece cakes? i think someone found that there were quite a few that wouldve gladly serviced them in their area. its been said that the conversation between the gay couple and the shop owner was less than a minute. he offered to make them a cake but that they decorate it themselves. i think its clear that they went after his shop on purpose.
I'll try to answer but honestly any answer is too specific to a person to just lump an "answer" on the table. I personally am Catholic and know that my personal views on gay marriage goes against what long standing doctrine says (even though Pope Francis is as "progressive" on the issue as ever). That to me doesn't invalidate anything about my religion or mean I reject the Bible wholesale. There's a reason religious faiths who scholars whose only job is to interpret scripture for people living in modern society.
As for this baker, I don't know the man. It could be that he is fine with gay marriage on a macro level but personally feels that actively participating in one (baking the cake) is an affront to his personal religious beliefs. From what I've read about the guy, he doesn't strike me as a raging homophobe who is using religious as merely a guise to stick it to the gays. Does he "break the rules" from elsewhere in the Bible? Probably.
But there in is a major point- many of the doctrine and "rules" of modern Christianity were actually created along the way by people. You have to get to the core of what is and isn't actually said in the Bible. In this instance, "do not lie with another man" is pretty clearly stated in the Bible, whereas other areas of doctrine are much more subjective to interpretation. So, if you have someone who lives fairly strictly by what the Bible says, as many American protestants do, you could easily see how participating in a gay wedding is something that is explicitly a violation of their faith, moreso than other things that frankly could be up for debate.
Of course they did. This isn't just some innocent couple that wanted a cake made. If you think that you are naive.
Good post. The use of the word "detestable" does set this apart from other "sins", but it's old testament so it sort of loses its teeth.
I don't know that you can make this assumption. I have plenty of gay friends that wouldn't seek out something like this but, if it came up in the normal course of them living their lives, would make it a very public issue.
Same. I wouldn't but I don't like the spotlight, at all.
The only reason I would make a big stink about it is if the business owner was a douche about it too. Which from the little I've actually ready about this, it didn't seem like he was.
Including spending their valuable time/money with a law suit over something that can be resolved in a matter of minutes by finding a different bakery?
