The Church and Homosexuality

[AuburnLegacy_1]

What's with this ^^^^^ response? You said you read the entire thread and wanted to discuss it. Does this mean you're taking your 1931 Bible and punting?

No. But it appears your heart is so hardened that no matter what I write, I won't be able to get through to you.

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(Written from the perspective that homosexuality is a blatant sin given the six major verses about it and the thousands of verses about the covenant of marriage.)

The Bible teaches us three basic loves: how we love God, how God loves us, and how people love people.

You are confusing the loves.

"For God so loved the world..."

(The world is His people, the whole of His creation, etc.)

"Do not love the world..."

(The world includes worldly things and individual creations that God specifically said don't love -- "lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life" -- and certainly not to love any one of them more than Him!)

Matthew 22:37-39 says Jesus said unto him, “‘Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.’ This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’

If a person loves his sin (homosexuality) more than he loves the Lord, then he will ignore the first and great commandment (i.e., give into unnatural desires, such as homosexuality).

(how we love God)

If a person loves his sin more than he loves the Lord, then he will ignore the second commandment and condemn his gay life partner to hell with him. (If he loved his neighbor, he would let him go.)

(how people love people)

1 John 2:15-17 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

--30--

You are assuming that I disagree with these people's lifestyle because I think my way (--and you are assuming that I have a different way) is better than their way.

I think God's way is best. I think He made it abundantly clear in His Word.

I have no problem with these people. I am not "heterosexualist" against these people. Addiction is addiction whether it is video gaming, a "penis," a cigarette, alcohol, gambling, lying, "pedophiling" plural, pornography, etc,. Sin is sin.

I want to see these people go to heaven.

You, quite frankly, are the problem if you are a child of God and you are accepting and enabling this sin and destructive lifestyle. You are effectively watching these people's houses burn down with them in it and not warning then to get out before they suffocate and burn. You need to be telling them about their sin while there is still time for them to repent and trust in the Savior. You are the light of the world. Your friends will hate and persecute you for telling them the truth.

Matthew 22:39 says (Jesus said) “If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you. Remember what I told you: ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’[a] If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also. If they obeyed my teaching, they will obey yours also. They will treat you this way because of my name, for they do not know the one who sent me. If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin; but now they have no excuse for their sin. Whoever hates me hates my Father as well. If I had not done among them the works no one else did, they would not be guilty of sin. As it is, they have seen, and yet they have hated both me and my Father."

It appears you like to quote the Bible when it suits you. When it doesn't, you ignore it. Got it. You told me "all loves" are not from God. I found that surprising given 1 John 4: 7-9 which says love comes from God. The chapter goes on to say, "If people say, “I love God,” but hate their brothers or sisters, they are liars."

No. Not liars. Murders.

1 John 3:15 says, "Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him".

If you look upon another person with lust, you are guilty of adultery.

Matthew 5:27 says, (Jesus said) “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ But I say unto you, that whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart...."

The same can be said when they give us bullsh*t like "I love the sinner but hate the sin."

On this nonsense we can agree, but for a different reason.

God never said He loves sinners. He does say He hates sin. If God "loved the sinners" and hated the sin, he would put the sinner in heaven and the sin in hell. It doesn't work that way.

God loves repeated sinners, the sinner who "dies to self," repents and turns away from sin, and lives for the Lord.

 

[thall_]

@AuburnLegacy_1 you're wasting a colossal amount of time arguing with @DaShuckster

he is incapable of having a good faith discussion. additionally, he was essentially banished from Nebraska because he was a total weirdo in person.

 

[DaShuckster]

... it appears your heart is so hardened that no matter what I write....

MY heart is so hardened???!? Who is the one here opining that all love is not God's love.

(Written from the perspective that homosexuality is a blatant sin given the six major verses about it and the thousands of verses about the covenant of marriage.)

You are basing the so-called "sin" of homosexuality on clerics who lived 3000 years ago. For the umpteenth time, we've learned more about human sexuality in the last 50 years than all the years of human existance before that.

Like it or not, more and more Christian churches -- like the United Methodist Church where my wife and I belong -- are openly embracing the LGBTQ community. The God of love would not do otherwise.

(The world is His people, the whole of His creation, etc.)

If homosexuality and bisexuality, like heterosexuality has been scientifically proven to be a part of His human creation, designed in His image, why would God 'build-in' the "sin"? Since God created us in His image, He also gave us brains that allow us to learn, grow, and deepen our faith in Him over time.

I think God's way is best. I think He made it abundantly clear in His Word.

And what is "God's way"? According to the Bible, God expects justice, kindness, and humility from people. To act justly is to treat othe people fairly and respectually without oppressing or mistreating others. That is The Heart of Jesus's teachings.

Addiction is addiction whether it is video gaming, a "penis," a cigarette, alcohol, gambling, lying, "pedophiling" plural, pornography, etc,. Sin is sin.

The trouble with your analogy is that our sexual orientation is a natural part of who we are. If you want to talk "sin," point to rape and adultry.

 

[AuburnLegacy_1]

For the umpteenth time, we've learned more about human sexuality in the last 50 years than all the years of human existance before that.

2 Timothy 3:1-7 But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come: For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good, traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away! For of this sort are those who creep into households and make captives of gullible women loaded down with sins, led away by various lusts, always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Like it or not, more and more Christian churches -- like the United Methodist Church where my wife and I belong -- are openly embracing the LGBTQ community. The God of love would not do otherwise.

1 Timothy 4:1-7 "Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. For every creature of God is good, and nothing is to be refused if it is received with thanksgiving; for it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer."

 

[DaShuckster]

Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons...

Beliefs like this ^^^^^ is why the United Methodist Church had some rural churches in the South and Midwest leave the denomination. Like you, they believed in 'deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons' instead of Christ's love.

 

[AuburnLegacy_1]

Beliefs like this ^^^^^ is why the United Methodist Church had some rural churches in the South and Midwest leave the denomination. Like you, they believed in 'deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons' instead of Christ's love.

One less than 3 miles away from my childhood home. Praise God!