Trump and Facts

[Ace of Knights]

Truly believing and repeating the the claim that millions of illegals voted and that's why he didn't win the popular election to congressional leaders despite a shred of evidence.

Gag orders against public communication to agencies that are charged with overseeing environmental and scientific policy including the EPA, Interior, Department of Agriculture, and Department of Health and Human Services.

Is this really what America has become? Are we truly going to stifle intelligence and scientific discussion? What's next the National Science Foundation?

I think the thing that bothers me about Trump the most are the attacks to human intelligence in general.

 

[Sir Galahad]

Can't wait for my taxes to go down.

 

[Bob the Citronaut]

The number things they're going after is stupid, with the votes and crowd size. No one cares about that stuff.

The gag orders only apply to official communications from the departments to the public (press releases, social media, interviews, etc). The employees are still free to publish and share over their personal social media if they like. This is common with any administration/management changes at any level of government or business. The new admin/management team wants their own message coming from the department, not the views and agenda of the previous one.

Also the memo at the USDA was sent out by the current staff that worked under Obama. Trump's nominee hasn't been confirmed yet. More fake news.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-usda-idUSKBN1582OB

 

[CommuterBob]

The number things they're going after is stupid, with the votes and crowd size. No one cares about that stuff.

The gag orders only apply to official communications from the departments to the public (press releases, social media, interviews, etc). The employees are still free to publish and share over their personal social media if they like. This is common with any administration/management changes at any level of government or business. The new admin/management team wants their own message coming from the department, not the views and agenda of the previous one.

Also the memo at the USDA was sent out by the current staff that worked under Obama. Trump's nominee hasn't been confirmed yet. More fake news.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-usda-idUSKBN1582OB

It's not fake news, but rather news without context. Yes, there has been a gag order put in effect. That is true. But it was also true under Obama and GWB when they took office. But boy, it makes for a good headline.

 

[Great2BAKnight2]

It's not fake news, but rather news without context. Yes, there has been a gag order put in effect. That is true. But it was also true under Obama and GWB when they took office. But boy, it makes for a good headline.

That's the problem. The media is not disclosing how many of Trumps' actions are standard operating procedure for any Presidential transition. The media continues to go down the road of picking sides rather than report the full context.

 

[CommuterBob]

That's the problem. The media is not disclosing how many of Trumps' actions are standard operating procedure for any Presidential transition. The media continues to go down the road of picking sides rather than report the full context.

They are, but they put it down on paragraph 6 of the story. The media has been and will continue to be, in the business of generating headlines. Reporting SOP doesn't get clicks. But making a "you won't believe what Trump did next" headline will - even if the SOP line is included in the story.

 

[goodknightfl]

The Press ...needs to hear.......you're FIRED!!

 

[Great2BAKnight2]

They are, but they put it down on paragraph 6 of the story. The media has been and will continue to be, in the business of generating headlines. Reporting SOP doesn't get clicks. But making a "you won't believe what Trump did next" headline will - even if the SOP line is included in the story.

Agreed. Even the Buzzfeed article a few weeks back about the list of Trump's transgressions with regard to Russia was fueled by revenue. All of the media outlets had the list months ago (October time frame), but Buzzfeed decided to publish it and got nearly 6 million views for it. The NYT executive editor stated that they wouldn't have published it due to the severity of the accusations and inability to verify the accusations. Buzzfeed decided to do it anyways because it was a juicy rumor that generated revenue. It has nothing to do with journalistic integrity anymore.

 

[sk8knight]

Truly believing and repeating the the claim that millions of illegals voted and that's why he didn't win the popular election to congressional leaders despite a shred of evidence.

There was that Harvard study that claimed illegal votes comprised up to 10% of all votes.

 

[bqknight]

There was that Harvard study that claimed illegal votes comprised up to 10% of all votes.

I literally can't. What world do we live in now?

You can't possibly believe that 10% of all votes are illegal.

FactCheck on this Study:

In a blistering rebuke of that study, the managers of the database on which the article by Richman and Earnest was based wrote in Electoral Studies that “measurement errors” in the survey led to a “biased estimate of the rate at which non-citizens voted in recent elections. The results, we show, are completely accounted for by very low frequency measurement error; further, the likely percent of non-citizen voters in recent US elections is 0.”

“Their finding is entirely due to measurement error,” one of the authors, Stephen Ansolabehere of Harvard and the principal investigator of CCES, wrote to us in an email. “Measurement errors happen. People accidentally check the wrong box in surveys. The rate of such errors in the CCES is very small, but such errors do happen. And when they do happen on a question such as citizenship, researchers can easily draw the wrong inference about voting behaviors. Richman and Earnest extrapolate from a handful of wrongfully classified cases (of non-citizens).”

 

[CommuterBob]

That last line is the real reason for the claim. Even if his "investigation" turns up nothing, the mere mention of the idea will lead to stricter voting regulations. Some will claim voter suppression, but I don't believe that is true either.

 

[Great2BAKnight2]

There was that Harvard study that claimed illegal votes comprised up to 10% of all votes.

Source?

I went looking and stumbled across this (Link) published paper in the Journal of Electoral studies, but it's not from Harvard. The source survey data comes from Harvard's Cooperative Congressional Election Study (CCES), but Harvard doesn't back the results of the paper. They even put out a rebuttal about how low frequency events in large samples can be problematic (Here), referring to the published paper directly.

Not saying it doesn't exist, but I'd like to read the Harvard study myself.

 

[knight_poster_15]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-reply-to-our-critics/?utm_term=.0f426533cf12

The study authors are from Old Dominion. They have addressed the concerns related to the Harvard rebuttal. The study authors' claims are compelling and hold water. They propose tests that would reinforce the validity of their sample and those tests bear fruit.

The Harvard rebuttal is behind a pay wall article. But the Old Dominion authors' rebuttal to the critique is effective and correct.

 

[CommuterBob]

There was that Harvard study that claimed illegal votes comprised up to 10% of all votes.

That's not what the study suggested. They suggested that 10% of all non-citizens voted, not 10% of all votes were cast by illegals. And the study was based on a survey of 85 non-citizens. 85. How is that even statistically significant?

 

[bqknight]

Also - that wall that we will be building...we're paying for it.

I didn't know that we can force someone into an IOU. His supporters will believe him too.

 

[Sir Galahad]

I literally can't. What world do we live in now?

You can't possibly believe that 10% of all votes are illegal.

FactCheck on this Study:

In a blistering rebuke of that study, the managers of the database on which the article by Richman and Earnest was based wrote in Electoral Studies that “measurement errors” in the survey led to a “biased estimate of the rate at which non-citizens voted in recent elections. The results, we show, are completely accounted for by very low frequency measurement error; further, the likely percent of non-citizen voters in recent US elections is 0.”

“Their finding is entirely due to measurement error,” one of the authors, Stephen Ansolabehere of Harvard and the principal investigator of CCES, wrote to us in an email. “Measurement errors happen. People accidentally check the wrong box in surveys. The rate of such errors in the CCES is very small, but such errors do happen. And when they do happen on a question such as citizenship, researchers can easily draw the wrong inference about voting behaviors. Richman and Earnest extrapolate from a handful of wrongfully classified cases (of non-citizens).”

Where do you live? I live in New York where no ID is required to vote. All that is needed is knowing the name an address. Something a simple phone book can provide.

 

[MACHater02]

Where do you live? I live in New York where no ID is required to vote. All that is needed is knowing the name an address. Something a simple phone book can provide.

It won't tell you if they're registered.

 

[Bob the Citronaut]

Also - that wall that we will be building...we're paying for it.

I didn't know that we can force someone into an IOU. His supporters will believe him too.

He's renegotiating NAFTA to be more fair and friendly towards the US, we have a yearly trade deficit with Mexico and it should be even. That is how Mexico is paying for the wall.

 

[CommuterBob]

LOL

 

[SublimeKnight]

View embedded media

LOL

Dead registered republicans will also be exempt from the investigation for the sake of time.

 

[sk8knight]

That's not what the study suggested. They suggested that 10% of all non-citizens voted, not 10% of all votes were cast by illegals. And the study was based on a survey of 85 non-citizens. 85. How is that even statistically significant?

All good points. To the first, if there are 20 million illegals and 10% of them voted isn't that millions. So, if you believe the study, then you're not lying.

And 85 is a ridiculously small sample. I have been way too busy at work to read as in-depth as you all seem to have the time for, so I'm glad we had some discourse on it.

 

[EweSeaEff]

All good points. To the first, if there are 20 million illegals and 10% of them voted isn't that millions. So, if you believe the study, then you're not lying.

And 85 is a ridiculously small sample. I have been way too busy at work to read as in-depth as you all seem to have the time for, so I'm glad we had some discourse on it.

20 million (if that number can even be considered remotely correct) is made up of adults and children. Figure that half of that number are adults (even though it might be less than that because we all know that illegals are poor and destitute and can't afford birth control, amirite?!), then we're left with 10 million illegals that could potentially vote illegally. Adds up to 1,000,000 based on the study.

 

[UCF11and1]

20 million (if that number can even be considered remotely correct) is made up of adults and children. Figure that half of that number are adults (even though it might be less than that because we all know that illegals are poor and destitute and can't afford birth control, amirite?!), then we're left with 10 million illegals that could potentially vote illegally. Adds up to 1,000,000 based on the study.

Probably have to factor in there the number of Mexicans that are too busy picking (insert name of crop here) to go vote on a Tuesday. Just in case, I don't think they can/know how to get an absentee ballot

 

[EweSeaEff]

Probably have to factor in there the number of Mexicans that are too busy picking (insert name of crop here) to go vote on a Tuesday. Just in case, I don't think they can/know how to get an absentee ballot

True. And, the carpet installers, tile guys, sign spinners, landscapers, lawn guys, hotel housekeepers, Las Vegas strip club/escort card-hander-outers.....

 

[sk8knight]

Of course, there were the videos of that one guy claiming to bus people among precincts. So you could have people voting multiple times in those cases.

 

[Sir Galahad]

It won't tell you if they're registered.

I could vote 50 times in NYC, all that is needed is a phone book.

 

[Knight_Light]

Probably have to factor in there the number of Mexicans that are too busy picking (insert name of crop here) to go vote on a Tuesday. Just in case, I don't think they can/know how to get an absentee ballot

Many states have early voting for 2-3 WEEKS (including on WEEKENDS) before the official election day.

Plus, many Dem precinct captains, who always handed out and collected absentee ballots in their precinct/neighborhood (mostly to get signatures, as the precinct machine will fill them all out for Dems) now hit up migrant communities during the weeks prior to election and basically do the same.

 

[Great2BAKnight2]

I really don't have an issue with Trump looking into the issue. If there's nothing there, then it should settle the debate. If they find something, they can close the loopholes or put forth changes that fix the problem.

 

[CommuterBob]

I really don't have an issue with Trump looking into the issue. If there's nothing there, then it should settle the debate. If they find something, they can close the loopholes or put forth changes that fix the problem.

True. Donald doesn't have to go very far to find evidence of duplicate registrations. He can ask his own daughter.

 

[CommuterBob]

Is Donald Trump's fascination with illegals voting fueled by a racist story from Bernhard Langer?

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/25/us/politics/trump-bernhard-langer-voting-fraud.html?_r=0

"Mr. Langer...was standing in line at a polling place near his home in Florida on Election Day, the president explained, when an official informed Mr. Langer he would not be able to vote.
Ahead of and behind Mr. Langer were voters who did not look as if they should be allowed to vote, Mr. Trump said, according to the staff members — but they were nonetheless permitted to cast provisional ballots. The president threw out the names of Latin American countries that the voters might have come from."

WTF? How can you possibly tell if someone is allowed to vote simply by looking at them? Especially in Florida.

And the story may not even be about Langer, according to Langer's daughter:

"Mr. Langer, who lives in Boca Raton, Fla., is a German citizen with permanent residence status in the United States who is, by law, barred from voting, according to Mr. Langer’s daughter Christina.

“He is a citizen of Germany,” she said, when reached on her father’s cellphone. “He is not a friend of President Trump’s, and I don’t know why he would talk about him.”"

" ...a senior White House staff member, who was not at the Monday reception but has heard Mr. Trump tell the story, said Mr. Langer saw Mr. Trump in Florida during the Thanksgiving break and told him the story of a friend of Mr. Langer’s who had been blocked from voting."

 

[UCFWayne]

I hope Trump looks into. Worst thing he finds, there is no fraud or no illegals voting. However, if he does find something, then hes in a great position to clean it up.

I hope he also really goes after the illegal immigrants on our welfare system.

 

[CommuterBob]

I hope Trump looks into. Worst thing he finds, there is no fraud or no illegals voting. However, if he does find something, then hes in a great position to clean it up.

I hope he also really goes after the illegal immigrants on our welfare system.

I agree that it's not a perfect system, but it's literally run at the County level in FL and in many other states. There should be a standardized system, but I think it would be difficult politically to change at the Federal level.

 

[CommuterBob]

And Langer's denial that he ever actually talked to Trump, saying the story has been misconstrued like a game of telephone:

 

[btbones]

He's renegotiating NAFTA to be more fair and friendly towards the US, we have a yearly trade deficit with Mexico and it should be even. That is how Mexico is paying for the wall.

I've tried to tell them this since last summer

 

[Poolside Knight]

I don't remember a more chaotic first week for a President. You would figure some adviser would tell him to make it a relatively quiet week so the opposition can go back to forgetting about what our government is doing & turn their focus on getting ready for Coachella

 

[Knight_Light]

I don't remember a more chaotic first week for a President. You would figure some adviser would tell him to make it a relatively quiet week so the opposition can go back to forgetting about what our government is doing & turn their focus on getting ready for Coachella

Its because he is actually working...something that is strange in DC.

Glad he is "draining the swamp" in the State Dept, Homeland Security, Border Patrol, etc...

 

[fabknight]

I don't remember a more chaotic first week for a President. You would figure some adviser would tell him to make it a relatively quiet week so the opposition can go back to forgetting about what our government is doing & turn their focus on getting ready for Coachella

He loves it and absolutely gets off on it. He's like a troll of epic proportion.

 

[CommuterBob]

The source of the Donald's claim of 3M illegals voting is one guy's tweet, who has never published any figures or anything else to back up the claim. Sad!

 

[Knight_Light]

ABC's David Muir was worried that Trump's tough stance on finally vetting those from terrorist areas might "upset" those that already hate the US (i.e. ISIS, etc...).

Just shows how clueless the main stream media is...worried that we might upset the terrorists trying to kill Americans.

 

[CommuterBob]

The guy is literally insane.