Trump and the Confederate Flag

[DaShuckster]

A Youtube video from the Lincoln Project -- A group of Republicans who don't support Trump.

FYI, a little interesting fact about the Confederate flag. The German Nazi flag is banned in Germany so its supporters there have taken to using the Confederate flag as a replacement. Weird decision, huh?

 

[NinjaKnight]

Clearly people who don't want to display the Confederate flag are on the wrong side of history.

 

[DaShuckster]

Clearly people who don't want to display the Confederate flag are on the wrong side of history.

I can understand Abe's initial response at the end of the Civil War. The Union was so fragile that it made sense that the North was extremely lenient on the Confederacy, thinking the focus needed to be on healing rather than appear to 'rub the traitors' noses in their defeat.'

But after 165 years, it's long past time for this Rebel bullshit to end. The flag should be banned from public display and all this confederate statue romanticizing needs to be put to an end.

 

[KnighttimeJoe]

I've got no problem tearing up the Confederate Flag. While we are at it, let's get rid of all the stupid Confederate statues as well. That’s the OG effing participation trophy right there. Oh, you lost the Civil War? Here’s a fukcing statue of yourself losing the war.

Burn. em. all. down. now. and stuff.

 

[DaShuckster]

While we are at it, let's get rid of all the stupid Confederate statues as well. That’s the OG effing participation trophy right there. Oh, you lost the Civil War? Here’s a fukcing statue of yourself losing the war.

No shit. When you stop and think about it, what was up with recognizing fukcing traitors in the first place?

If I didn't know better, you'd think the people responsible for honoring these treasonous bastards were sending some kind of message.

 

[DaShuckster]

I grew up in the Midwest, not the South, but even in my rural school I remember being told in my American History class that the Civil War was really more about economics than it was about slavery.

I'd love to go back in time and be the smartass in back of the class who said to the teacher, "But wasn't the fukcing economics all about slavery??!?"

 

[Poolside Knight]

that massive Confederate flag at the corner of 75 and I4 before the Tampa Casino is not a good look and I bet the Tampa Chamber of Commerce agrees.

 

[fried-chicken]

Elizabeth Warren just introduced and the senate just passed an amendment to a military funding bill that the Pentagon must rename all bases named after confederate generals.

Trump said he would veto it. Lol ok bud, good luck with that. Trump picked the wrong side of this fight.

 

[knightbeer]

A Youtube video from the Lincoln Project -- A group of Republicans who don't support Trump.

FYI, a little interesting fact about the Confederate flag. The German Nazi flag is banned in Germany so its supporters there have taken to using the Confederate flag as a replacement. Weird decision, huh?

View embedded media

Interesting fact, the German Nazi flag is legal to fly here in the US. That's what makes us great....

 

[KnighttimeJoe]

Interesting fact, the German Nazi flag is legal to fly here in the US. That's what makes us great....

#GEWINNEN!!!!!!!

 

[UCFWayne]

people forget how terrible the civil war was. one of the ways to help heal afterwards was the proclamation of amnesty and reconstruction. it was an attempt to heal the wound. im not a big fan of the confederate flag or most of the monuments, but it was an attempt to bring this country back together.

over 100 years later and we are still very much divided.

 

[Crazyhole]

I dont like seeing the confederate flag being flown because its the flag of a foreign nation. Same goes for the Mexican flag. Take all of that crap down.

 

[KnighttimeJoe]

people forget how terrible the civil war was. one of the ways to help heal afterwards was the proclamation of amnesty and reconstruction. it was an attempt to heal the wound. im not a big fan of the confederate flag or most of the monuments, but it was an attempt to bring this country back together.

over 100 years later and we are still very much divided.

Participation trophies at its finest. The nanny state that started over 100 years ago needs to die immediately.

 

[UCFWayne]

Participation trophies at its finest. The nanny state that started over 100 years ago needs to die immediately.

i think most of them are stupid but a few should remain. im not a fan of them taking down lee's statues. its too bad he chose the state that he loved over the union. if he had gone with the union, the war probably wouldnt have lasted that long.

 

[KnighttimeJoe]

i think most of them are stupid but a few should remain. im not a fan of them taking down lee's statues. its too bad he chose the state that he loved over the union. if he had gone with the union, the war probably wouldnt have lasted that long.

Good read on General Lee: https://getpocket.com/explore/item/the-myth-of-the-kindly-general-lee?utm_source=pocket-newtab

 

[UCFWayne]

Good read on General Lee: https://getpocket.com/explore/item/the-myth-of-the-kindly-general-lee?utm_source=pocket-newtab

ive already read a few things on lee and have even been to his birthplace. i try not to judge based on todays standards, but by the standards of that day.

 

[KnighttimeJoe]

ive already read a few things on lee and have even been to his birthplace. i try not to judge based on todays standards, but by the standards of that day.

The standards of his day were pretty low when it came to how black people were treated. That's a pretty piss poor line of reasoning.

 

[NinjaKnight]

I grew up in the Midwest, not the South, but even in my rural school I remember being told in my American History class that the Civil War was really more about economics than it was about slavery.

I'd love to go back in time and be the smartass in back of the class who said to the teacher, "But wasn't the fukcing economics all about slavery??!?"

It actually wasn't even about economics or states rights. Read the actual secession declaration by each state, nearly all of them specifically mention the right to own slaves.

 

[firm_bizzle]

Elizabeth Warren just introduced and the senate just passed an amendment to a military funding bill that the Pentagon must rename all bases named after confederate generals.

Trump said he would veto it. Lol ok bud, good luck with that. Trump picked the wrong side of this fight.

The south will rise again with Trump as their leader. Gonna be tremendous. Highly rated country with a big military no blacks this time.

 

[UCFKnight85]

The General that Ft Benning is named after was a real swell guy. This was his floor speech at the Confederacy gathering.

What was the reason that induced Georgia to take the step of secession? This reason may be summed up in one single proposition. It was a conviction, a deep conviction on the part of Georgia, that a separation from the North was the only thing that could prevent the abolition of her slavery. ...If things are allowed to go on as they are, it is certain that slavery is to be abolished. By the time the North shall have attained the power, the black race will be in a large majority, and then we will have black governors, black legislatures, black juries, black everything. Is it to be supposed that the white race will stand for that? It is not a supposable case. ...war will break out everywhere like hidden fire from the earth, and it is probable that the white race, being superior in every respect, may push the other back. ...we will be overpowered and our men will be compelled to wander like vagabonds all over the earth; and as for our women, the horrors of their state we cannot contemplate in imagination. That is the fate which abolition will bring upon the white race. ...We will be completely exterminated, and the land will be left in the possession of the blacks, and then it will go back to a wilderness and become another Africa. ...Suppose they elevated Charles Sumner to the presidency? Suppose they elevated Fred Douglass, your escaped slave, to the presidency? What would be your position in such an event? I say give me pestilence and famine sooner than that.

 

[firm_bizzle]

people forget how terrible the civil war was. one of the ways to help heal afterwards was the proclamation of amnesty and reconstruction. it was an attempt to heal the wound. im not a big fan of the confederate flag or most of the monuments, but it was an attempt to bring this country back together.

over 100 years later and we are still very much divided.

They sure don't remember. * Reconstruction was handled about as bad as post-WW1. Defeat must be absolute and re-education must happen or you'll be dealing with resurgence forever.

 

[firm_bizzle]

The General that Ft Benning is named after was a real swell guy. This was his floor speech at the Confederacy gathering.

What was the reason that induced Georgia to take the step of secession? This reason may be summed up in one single proposition. It was a conviction, a deep conviction on the part of Georgia, that a separation from the North was the only thing that could prevent the abolition of her slavery. ...If things are allowed to go on as they are, it is certain that slavery is to be abolished. By the time the North shall have attained the power, the black race will be in a large majority, and then we will have black governors, black legislatures, black juries, black everything. Is it to be supposed that the white race will stand for that? It is not a supposable case. ...war will break out everywhere like hidden fire from the earth, and it is probable that the white race, being superior in every respect, may push the other back. ...we will be overpowered and our men will be compelled to wander like vagabonds all over the earth; and as for our women, the horrors of their state we cannot contemplate in imagination. That is the fate which abolition will bring upon the white race. ...We will be completely exterminated, and the land will be left in the possession of the blacks, and then it will go back to a wilderness and become another Africa. ...Suppose they elevated Charles Sumner to the presidency? Suppose they elevated Fred Douglass, your escaped slave, to the presidency? What would be your position in such an event? I say give me pestilence and famine sooner than that.

Not only did he commit treason, he wasn't that good of an officer.

 

[Crazyhole]

Not only did he commit treason, he wasn't that good of an officer.

Yeah, but he tried. You can never take that away from him.

 

[fried-chicken]

Anyone have insight on why Trump would threaten to veto the military funding bill instead of change these names? I mean obviously he'll sign the bill but what is he thinking? The dude is high as hell if he thinks this is the culture war to start right now.

 

[DaShuckster]

people forget how terrible the civil war was. one of the ways to help heal afterwards was the proclamation of amnesty and reconstruction. it was an attempt to heal the wound. im not a big fan of the confederate flag or most of the monuments, but it was an attempt to bring this country back together.

I'm all for 'healing the wound' too but let's not fool ourselves into thinking that Confederate monuments or the reappearance of the Confederate flag had anything to do with reconciliation between the North and South.

The vast majority of the monuments were erected between 1890 and 1950. I could have sworn the Civil War ended in the mid-1860s.

 

[Trigeek]

It actually wasn't even about economics or states rights. Read the actual secession declaration by each state, nearly all of them specifically mention the right to own slaves.

There were rampant conspiracy theories about the northern Abolitionist promoting a slave uprising and raping all the White women. So much so it drove legislation.

sound familiar???

 

[UCFWayne]

The standards of his day were pretty low when it came to how black people were treated. That's a pretty piss poor line of reasoning.

so basically every single person in the past were a terrible person then. id love to see you at the front of the line to tear down any jefferson washington or lincoln memorial. i mean lincoln was totally cool with the south keep slaves.

 

[UCFWayne]

They sure don't remember. * Reconstruction was handled about as bad as post-WW1. Defeat must be absolute and re-education must happen or you'll be dealing with resurgence forever.

you are correct, they never really were able to push the hatred out and let the healing begin.

I'm all for 'healing the wound' too but let's not fool ourselves into thinking that Confederate monuments or the reappearance of the Confederate flag had anything to do with reconciliation between the North and South.

The vast majority of the monuments were erected between 1890 and 1950. I could have sworn the Civil War ended in the mid-1860s.

almost like vast portions of the south were completely destroyed. i mean its not like today where you can just rebuild things in a year or even two. i know your old so you probably dont remember sherman and what he did to any southern city he stopped at.

 

[DaShuckster]

It is fascinating to think back to high school and college American History class discussions about the 'real' reason behind the South's succession: Slavery? ...or was it really about States Rights? and/or the South attempt to protect its economy?

I recall very serious discussions about these points growing up. It was all total bullshit to obscure the South's crimes against humanity.

And the same racist bullshit is going on still today. The only difference is that most racists have learned (in most cases) to be more subtle about it. This BLM movement is making a statement that the same old bullshit excuses aren't going to cut it anymore.

 

[Trigeek]

Good read on General Lee: https://getpocket.com/explore/item/the-myth-of-the-kindly-general-lee?utm_source=pocket-newtab

Racist!!

 

[DaShuckster]

you probably dont remember sherman and what he did to any southern city he stopped at.

It was WAR.

But afterwards, the traitors who defended slavery were graciously granted amnesty. Please explain the rationale for erecting statues to celebrate the South's glorious leaders...who led them to their defeat?

Like I said before, it's almost like there was a different message behind them.

 

[KnighttimeJoe]

so basically every single person in the past were a terrible person then. id love to see you at the front of the line to tear down any jefferson washington or lincoln memorial. i mean lincoln was totally cool with the south keep slaves.

Yes, that's exactly what I said.

Try reading the link I sent to you and then we can chat. I am glad you've visited his birthplace but that won't really cut it, conversationally speaking.

 

[Crazyhole]

It is fascinating to think back to high school and college American History class discussions about the 'real' reason behind the South's succession: Slavery? ...or was it really about States Rights? and/or the South attempt to protect its economy?

I recall very serious discussions about these points growing up. It was all total bullshit to obscure the South's crimes against humanity.

And the same racist bullshit is going on still today. The only difference is that most racists have learned (in most cases) to be more subtle about it. This BLM movement is making a statement that the same old bullshit excuses aren't going to cut it anymore.

You can't view things that happened back then through the lens that you view them today. Anti-slavery sentiment was not as strong then, even in the north, as it is today. The Civil War was way more about states rights/economics than it was about peoples views on slavery, and the vast majority of people were indifferent on the subject.

 

[Crazyhole]

Anyone have insight on why Trump would threaten to veto the military funding bill instead of change these names? I mean obviously he'll sign the bill but what is he thinking? The dude is high as hell if he thinks this is the culture war to start right now.

Trump is willing to do it to satiate his base. That being said, we shouldn't try to erase history. It's way to easy to repeat it if we don't have reminders.

 

[Knight_Classes_begin_7pm]

I can understand Abe's initial response at the end of the Civil War. The Union was so fragile that it made sense that the North was extremely lenient on the Confederacy, thinking the focus needed to be on healing rather than appear to 'rub the traitors' noses in their defeat.'

But after 165 years, it's long past time for this Rebel bullshit to end. The flag should be banned from public display and all this confederate statue romanticizing needs to be put to an end.

...and Rebel bullshit it is! People don't fly Hitler's flag (well actually they do when displaying a frump flag)

 

[DaShuckster]

You can't view things that happened back then through the lens that you view them today. The Civil War was way more about states rights/economics than it was about peoples views on slavery, and the vast majority of people were indifferent on the subject.

Sadly, I agree with you. But, looking back, it now seems so incredibly obvious that the States Rights / Economic side of the argument was all about slavery too! It's just mindboggling to me now to think back and remember a university professor telling me and my fellow freshmen that the Civil War was really much more about States Rights than it was about the issue of slavery.

Yeah, I guess the old fart was right. It was about a State's RIGHT to allow slavery!!!

 

[Knight_Classes_begin_7pm]

There were rampant conspiracy theories about the northern Abolitionist promoting a slave uprising and raping all the White women. So much so it drove legislation.

sound familiar???

yes it does sound familiar (red-hats)

 

[Knight_Classes_begin_7pm]

It actually wasn't even about economics or states rights. Read the actual secession declaration by each state, nearly all of them specifically mention the right to own slaves.

but owning the slaves was an economic benefit to them

 

[Crazyhole]

Sadly, I agree with you. But, looking back, it now seems so incredibly obvious that the States Rights / Economic side of the argument was all about slavery too! It's just mindboggling to me now to think back and remember a university professor telling me and my fellow freshmen that the Civil War was really much more about States Rights than it was about the issue of slavery.

Yeah, I guess the old fart was right. It was about a State's RIGHT to allow slavery!!!

I'm fine with the argument about the Civil War being predominantly about slavery. In all honesty it was. I just don't like the romanticization of "north=good, south=bad" like it was a moral war. In reality it was no different than any other war, it was about self-preservation.

 

[DaShuckster]

I just don't like the romanticization of "north=good, south=bad" like it was a moral war. In reality it was no different than any other war, it was about self-preservation.

I'll strongly disagree with you on this one. No doubt there were just as many 'good people' fighting for the South as there were for the North, but the cause they were fighting for was morally repugnant and evil.

While we're talking war, I'm guessing there were a lot of 'good people' fighting for Nazi Germany during WWII too.