Trump and the Confederate Flag

[fried-chicken]

You can't view things that happened back then through the lens that you view them today. Anti-slavery sentiment was not as strong then, even in the north, as it is today. The Civil War was way more about states rights/economics than it was about peoples views on slavery, and the vast majority of people were indifferent on the subject.

Then change the name of the shitter to be named after the generals so we "dont forget about history."

 

[Crazyhole]

I'll strongly disagree with you on this one. No doubt there were just as many 'good people' fighting for the South as there were for the North, but the cause they were fighting for was morally repugnant and evil.

While we're talking war, I'm guessing there were a lot of 'good people' fighting for Nazi Germany during WWII too.

What I'm saying is that it was more a level of bad. The North was fighting for the right things but not necessarily because of "nobility".

We certainly didn't enter WW2 because we wanted to end the holocaust. We did because we didn't want germany to take over the world and control us. There's nothing wrong with that, but we need to be careful in painting ourselves as heroes.

 

[DaShuckster]

What I'm saying is that it was more a level of bad. The North was fighting for the right things but not necessarily because of "nobility".

We certainly didn't enter WW2 because we wanted to end the holocaust. We did because we didn't want germany to take over the world and control us. There's nothing wrong with that, but we need to be careful in painting ourselves as heroes.

Sorry, I'm going to continue believing that the brave men and women who defended the United States of America during the Civil War -- and WWII -- were heroes.

 

[Crazyhole]

Sorry, I'm going to continue believing that the brave men and women who defended the United States of America during the Civil War -- and WWII -- were heroes.

Thats fine. Keep being an idealist and keep being disappointed.

 

[UCFKnight85]

And then there’s this

 

[NinjaKnight]

And then there’s this

View embedded media

You post stupid stuff idiot normal people do.

We post stupid stuff our idiot president does


I wish you were smart enough to understand why the two are different.

 

[Ucfmikes]

And then there’s this

View embedded media

Rioters and the mob don’t even know history
They certainly don’t care.

But, but, but, the police are being too harsh on them

 

[DaShuckster]

Rioters and the mob don’t even know history

Not everybody can be as 'up' on American History as all those good ole boys and girls down South. When I lived in Virginia I discovered that the Civil War was actually The War of Northern Aggression.

 

[fried-chicken]

And then there’s this

View embedded media

Dont worry. He'd be glad to see the protests even if a few citizens make mistakes.

 

[Ucfmikes]

Not everybody can be as 'up' on American History as all those good ole boys and girls down South. When I lived in Virginia I discovered that the Civil War was actually The War of Northern Aggression.

Completely irrelevant to the post about defacing the statue

But that’s your claim to fame right @DaShuckster ?

Not reading, changing the topic, irrelevancy and the well-known TDS destroying your life.

Right guys???

 

[Ucfmikes]

By the way your star receiver entered the transfer portal, so you’re not having a good day

 

[DaShuckster]

Not reading, changing the topic, irrelevancy and the well-known TDS destroying your life.

uh, Ucfmikes? The topic is Trump and and many of his fellowers' -- continued support for...the Confederate flag.

If you want to support 85's typical attempts to change the subject, go at it. But please spare me your hypocritical bullshit about changing the topic.

 

[firm_bizzle]

I thought that Trump likes soldiers who win?

 

[UCFKnight85]

Dont worry. He'd be glad to see the protests even if a few citizens make mistakes.

I think he would be upset to see how utterly stupid a lot of this population is

 

[Trigeek]

I'm fine with the argument about the Civil War being predominantly about slavery. In all honesty it was. I just don't like the romanticization of "north=good, south=bad" like it was a moral war. In reality it was no different than any other war, it was about self-preservation.

Why can’t we apply the same logic with Republicans and Democrats? Rather than call each other names

 

[fried-chicken]

I think he would be upset to see how utterly stupid a lot of this population is

If he fought to end human slavery he knows how stupid people are.

 

[KnighttimeJoe]

If he fought to end human slavery he knows how stupid people are.

 

[UCFWayne]

Yes, that's exactly what I said.

Try reading the link I sent to you and then we can chat. I am glad you've visited his birthplace but that won't really cut it, conversationally speaking.

you said we should judge those of the past by todays standards. jefferson owned slaves. his statues need to come down. those pyramids in egypt were built by slaves. they should be torn down and replaced with monuments to them specifically. the roman empire committed countless atrocities. we need to tear down all their old monuments. the list will continue to grow.

ive read plenty of pro and anti lee articles. i stand by what i said.

 

[NinjaKnight]

you said we should judge those of the past by todays standards. jefferson owned slaves. his statues need to come down. those pyramids in egypt were built by slaves. they should be torn down and replaced with monuments to them specifically. the roman empire committed countless atrocities. we need to tear down all their old monuments. the list will continue to grow.

ive read plenty of pro and anti lee articles. i stand by what i said.

Lmao man I missed your butthole stupid analogies.

Reading what you type when you try to come up with these on your own is like watching an orangutan try to do calculus.

At least you are good at one thing: making super idiotic analogies.

 

[Trigeek]

you said we should judge those of the past by todays standards. jefferson owned slaves. his statues need to come down. those pyramids in egypt were built by slaves. they should be torn down and replaced with monuments to them specifically. the roman empire committed countless atrocities. we need to tear down all their old monuments. the list will continue to grow.

ive read plenty of pro and anti lee articles. i stand by what i said.

Wow! Talk about totally missing the point.

 

[chemmie]

people forget how terrible the civil war was. one of the ways to help heal afterwards was the proclamation of amnesty and reconstruction. it was an attempt to heal the wound. im not a big fan of the confederate flag or most of the monuments, but it was an attempt to bring this country back together.

over 100 years later and we are still very much divided.

Well, Andrew Johnson was one of the worst presidents in history and completely botched reconstruction, and Grant wasn't much better. Had Lincoln not be killed, America could look very different today than it does now.

 

[DaShuckster]

Well, Andrew Johnson was one of the worst presidents in history and completely botched reconstruction

Very true. But fortunately for Johnson's legacy, his ignominious spot on The Worst Presidents list has been replaced.

 

[UCFWayne]

Well, Andrew Johnson was one of the worst presidents in history and completely botched reconstruction, and Grant wasn't much better. Had Lincoln not be killed, America could look very different today than it does now.

i agree with you.

 

[KnighttimeJoe]

you said we should judge those of the past by todays standards. jefferson owned slaves. his statues need to come down. those pyramids in egypt were built by slaves. they should be torn down and replaced with monuments to them specifically. the roman empire committed countless atrocities. we need to tear down all their old monuments. the list will continue to grow.

ive read plenty of pro and anti lee articles. i stand by what i said.

SMH. I never said that. I said "The standards of his day were pretty low when it came to how black people were treated," and that you had "a pretty piss poor line of reasoning." I also said that confederate statues were the OG participation trophies. I also told you to read something to have a frame of reference, but you refuse to. Now, you follow it up with a holy host of dumb ass analogies.

 

[NinjaKnight]

Guys, the confederacy was around for almost 5 whole years. You can't just get rid of that kind of legacy with a snap of th fingers 150 years later. Obviously these people are super proud of that half decade, it's totally not about white supremacy.

 

[KnighttimeJoe]

Lmao man I missed your butthole stupid analogies.

Reading what you type when you try to come up with these on your own is like watching an orangutan try to do calculus.

At least you are good at one thing: making super idiotic analogies.

Now, now, I've seen a few orangutans do Calc. It's a bit more impressive.

 

[NinjaKnight]

SMH. I never said that. I said "The standards of his day were pretty low when it came to how black people were treated," and that you had "a pretty piss poor line of reasoning." I also said that confederate statues were the OG participation trophies. I also told you to read something to have a frame of reference, but you refuse to. Now, you follow it up with a holy host of dumb ass analogies.

Idiot level analogies are his calling card. Its one of the greatest things about this board.

I repeatedly made fun of them in the past and he stopped attempting to come up with them, but now his goldfish level attention span forgot about it and I'm so glad they are back.

 

[UCFWayne]

SMH. I never said that. I said "The standards of his day were pretty low when it came to how black people were treated," and that you had "a pretty piss poor line of reasoning." I also said that confederate statues were the OG participation trophies. I also told you to read something to have a frame of reference, but you refuse to. Now, you follow it up with a holy host of dumb ass analogies.

smh. we agree the standards of the day were low. by those standards he wasnt that bad. most of those statues are crap. only a select few should remain. ive read plenty, we just disagree. the standards of those days were even lower but i dont see you apply the same logic.

 

[KnighttimeJoe]

smh. we agree the standards of the day were low. by those standards he wasnt that bad. most of those statues are crap. only a select few should remain. ive read plenty, we just disagree. the standards of those days were even lower but i dont see you apply the same logic.

Another train wreck of a post, but I know you're trying.

 

[DaShuckster]

we agree the standards of the day were low. by those standards he wasnt that bad.

He wasn't that bad??!? I'm pretty sure treason wasn't considered a 'low standard' back then.

Lee was the Benedict Arnold of the 1860s who betrayed his country to defend slavery. He was well-known for beating his 'property' and separating his slave families. This is the guy who wasn't so bad??!?

 

[Crazyhole]

And then there’s this

View embedded media

you said we should judge those of the past by todays standards. jefferson owned slaves. his statues need to come down. those pyramids in egypt were built by slaves. they should be torn down and replaced with monuments to them specifically. the roman empire committed countless atrocities. we need to tear down all their old monuments. the list will continue to grow.

ive read plenty of pro and anti lee articles. i stand by what i said.

Better rename the Biden Center.

 

[Crazyhole]

He wasn't that bad??!? I'm pretty sure treason wasn't considered a 'low standard' back then.

Lee was the Benedict Arnold of the 1860s who betrayed his country to defend slavery. He was well-known for beating his 'property' and separating his slave families. This is the guy who wasn't so bad??!?

What Lee did, technically, doesn't rise to the level of treason. I won't argue with the rest of what you said because he wasn't exactly the model of morality.


What I find funny is how Lincoln is universally praised for freeing the slaves, when the reality of the matter is that he did it out of panic and for political purposes. The emancipation proclamation didn't even apply to all states and territories.

 

[AAC6800]

Why can’t we apply the same logic with Republicans and Democrats? Rather than call each other names

What fun would that be?

 

[DaShuckster]

What Lee did, technically, doesn't rise to the level of treason.

What Lee did was the textbook definition of treason.

treason NOUN
the crime of betraying one's country, especially by attempting to overthrow the government.

(And before you give me some baloney about the South just wanting to peacefully succeed from the Union, the Civil War broke out when secessionist forces attacked Fort Sumter after President Lincoln's inauguration.)

 

[UCFKnight85]

Maybe this random Churchill fellows’ statue has to come down and maybe he’s a racist but I haven’t been able to meet him yet

 

[Crazyhole]

Maybe this random Churchill fellows’ statue has to come down and maybe he’s a racist but I haven’t been able to meet him yet

View embedded media

Future leader of yesterday right there. I also have not met Churchill but when I do I plan on shooting him in his fat lazy black racist face.


This is why we need guns.

 

[DaShuckster]

Maybe this random Churchill fellows’ statue has to come down...

Maybe there's a reason why you, Crazy, and others here want to change the subject away from Confederate war generals?

Let me guess: It's just part of a dangerous 'slippery slope.' If we remove statues honoring f*king traitors to our country, it's only a 'hop, skip, and a jump' to doing the same for our Founding Fathers, right?

 

[Crazyhole]

Maybe there's a reason why you, Crazy, and others here want to change the subject away from Confederate war generals?

Let me guess: It's just part of a dangerous 'slippery slope.' If we remove statues honoring f*king traitors to our country, it's only a 'hop, skip, and a jump' to doing the same for our Founding Fathers, right?

Boo hoo, cries shuckster. Maybe if you answer the question about whether trump told people to drink bleach, which is a simple yes or no answer, the rest of us would stay on your line of topic.

 

[Crazyhole]

Why even bother, because you are incapable of a yes or no answer.



Lee's acts are not "technically" treasonous because he left the United States for a different country. He disavowed his citizenship.

So unless you are willing to say that the CHAZ idiots are also guilty of treason, it might be time to sit down and let the adults talk amongst ourselves.

 

[UCFKnight85]

Maybe there's a reason why you, Crazy, and others here want to change the subject away from Confederate war generals?

Let me guess: It's just part of a dangerous 'slippery slope.' If we remove statues honoring f*king traitors to our country, it's only a 'hop, skip, and a jump' to doing the same for our Founding Fathers, right?

Ive already said I’m fine with taking Confederates down so long as it’s not by a mob in the street. You seem very insecure and defensive though- could it be that the exact same people (your side) aren’t stopping at Confederates and are trying to unilaterally decide which figures from other history get to stay or not by mob rule and violence?

Oh wait that’s exactly it