Hmm ..What do u think???
Trump Confronted About January 6 at Presser, Says There Was ‘No Reason’ For Ashli Babbit to Be Shot
- Thread starter ElprofesorJuan
- Start date
The Constitution says in the first amendment we can peacefully assemble to petition the government to redress our grievances. What happened on January 6 was not that . All who violated the law should be prosecuted.
I wasn't there . I wasn't on the scene and I am not a trained LEO. From 30,000 feet and being an armchair observer I think nonlethal means could have been used. it's amazing the patience that LEOs have in Portland and Seattle with the mostly peaceful protestors. In that regard I think the officer panicked and a woman who was unarmed died.
We all know if the situation was in Portland and a cop shoots and kills an unarmed protestor the media would have skewered the cop. I guess some protestors breaking the law you can kill and others breaking the law and fire bombing federal buildings you got let them have their space.
When politics intersects science , politics wins. When politics intersects medicine, politics wins. When politics intersects protesting and civil disobedience, politics again wins. If you are leftist protest you're peaceful. If you're maga you're a danger to the republic and need to be put down.
I wasn't there . I wasn't on the scene and I am not a trained LEO. From 30,000 feet and being an armchair observer I think nonlethal means could have been used. it's amazing the patience that LEOs have in Portland and Seattle with the mostly peaceful protestors. In that regard I think the officer panicked and a woman who was unarmed died.
We all know if the situation was in Portland and a cop shoots and kills an unarmed protestor the media would have skewered the cop. I guess some protestors breaking the law you can kill and others breaking the law and fire bombing federal buildings you got let them have their space.
When politics intersects science , politics wins. When politics intersects medicine, politics wins. When politics intersects protesting and civil disobedience, politics again wins. If you are leftist protest you're peaceful. If you're maga you're a danger to the republic and need to be put down.
Good grief, the lengths some people will go to create a false equivalency is literally breathtaking.
An angry mob breaks into the U.S. Capitol, breaking through a window, one floor below the Senate Chamber where the Senators — and our Vice President (you know, the guy of ‘Hang Mike Pence chants’ fame) are conducting business. But we’re supposed to believe those guards sworn to protect our lawmakers ‘panicked’ when our Capitol was overrun? Give me a break!
The Capitol Tresspassing was the WORST EVER OF ALL TIME.
The Trump Administration was the WORST EVER OF ALL TIME.
Russian Collusion was the WORST EVER OF ALL TIME.
Trump personally is the WORST EVER OF ALL TIME.
All the thing the media says I should hate are literally the WORST EVER OF ALL TIME.
Anyone with even a sense of perspective: None of those the worst ever.
OMG! How can you not see how bad these are? You must be the WORST EVER OF ALL TIME. WHY ARE YOU SO DIVISIVE AND TRIBAL?
I think once she broke through all other measures/barriers to breach that deep into the capital where she it at the senate chamber door all bets are off. Also when the guy has a gun pointed at you and tells you to get back, probably not a good idea to press forward. There are non lethal approaches that were attempted unsuccessfully at various earlier stages in the breach. This was the final stage between a mob and elected officials certifying a presidential election. One shot likely deterred a full breach of the door and saved even more lives.
RealClearInvestigations captured the shooter’s name as it was broadcast live on CSPAN. Posting that below if anyone cares. One quote of interest from the DOJ report: “revealed no evidence to establish that, at the time the officer fired a single shot at Ms. Babbitt, the officer did not reasonably believe that it was necessary to do so in self-defense or in defense of the Members of Congress and others evacuating the House Chamber."
Municipal police officers have been convicted of murder for firing without justification. The Capitol Police are a weird organization that operates by its own rules and free from FOIA laws. It’s been hard to get a full accounting from them including a justification for one officer’s shot when none of the others felt it was warranted.
I'm shocked the one cop you refuse to defend was the one that shot a woman trying to break into the Congressional chambers who was potentially going to disrupt the certification of the Electoral College at best or cause harm to Congressional members at worst.
She shouldn't have been shot, but officers have killed people for less.
The video is readily available. Nobody shot prior to the exact moment the officer shot because until that point nobody had breached through the heavily barricaded wall. It was the exact moment that the first person breached that they were shot. Sucks for her first one through is first one shot.
She hadn't breached through it either and the officer stated that there was no threat. So tell me why he doesn't just grab and restrain her rather than using deadly force? What was the rationale for his use of deadly force and was it objectively reasonable that any other officer in that circumstance would use deadly force. Given that the other 2 officers that were securing that hallway did not use deadly force, I'd like to know.
Even had she made it through the window (only her head breached as you say), she still would've gotten caught up in the chairs and other debris they used to barricade the door.
Look, I get that the shot may been the thing that stemmed off anyone else from attempting to go through that door, but that in and of itself is not a good enough reason to shoot anyone. Especially when the video shows the officers that left that scene were there a second earlier with rifles drawn and the crowd expressed no hostility to them. The questions need to be asked and the people deserve an answer as they do in all the rest of the use of force cases. The Capitol Police need to lose their secret police privileges and be just as transparent as all the rest.
A mob breaching the door is different than an individual. It’s about threat assessment. There is a reason a mob was able to penetrate multiple layers of security prior to that point and that was power in numbers. Your solution to grab and restrain makes sense for a handful of individuals. Not a hundred people. Even still pushing forward in the face of an officer with a gun trained on you and commands to stop is often a death sentence in and of itself. YouTube is littered with cases of people being shot for advancing toward an officer yelling stop with gun drawn. You have a problem with this one because she is a trump ally and martyr.
No, I have a problem with the Capitol Police being held accountable to different standards than any other police force. In those other cases, the officer had to articulate the threat that existed. In most of those videos, the suspect had a knife or an axe or a screwdriver or some other weapon, or like Michael Brown had attempted to grab an officer’s gun already and had punched the officer multiple times creating an objectively reasonable threat, or they need to physically present a disproportionate threat to the officer. Yes, there is a disproportionality of numbers and that is reasonable. If he’d said that I could live with it.
But the DoJ didn’t say that he noted the disproportionality of force. The report said that he felt no threat to himself or anyone else. Therefore, what was the justification of force? Unless the civil suit unseals it, we’ll never know.
As to your other statement, if a bunch of people charge the field at UCF, the police are going to take the first few down and then they’ll retreat if the numbers are overwhelming. They aren’t going to shoot someone that hops the fence. These officers could have given up the room and gone with the others down the hall but decided to make a stand and one used deadly force to kill a woman that he admitted he didn’t even perceive as a threat.
This wasn’t hopping the fence at a football game. I’d like to think you are above even trying to compare that situation to one of protecting elected officials from a mob. A mob not looking to celebrate a football result.
White redneck bimbo gets shot, suddenly right-wingers care about cops shooting unarmed people.
Suddenly? More like 6 months after everyone already had recognized it was justified. Because Trump made a comment that it wasn’t.
No, I get the difference obviously. What I’m saying is that, even in a mob situation, the officer needs to be able to state an objectively reasonable justification for the use of deadly force. He actually filed a statement that is directly opposite of that. If my wife shot and killed a protestor at a mostly peaceful, somewhat violent BLM rally, it would be all over national news and she’d be facing murder charges after making the exact same statement. I’d like our federal police agency to follow the same rules. They don’t get to be above the law because they are the political police force.
There’s plenty of police officers that I have called out. Michael Slager, the officer in Ft Worth that shot through a window, the guy on my wife’s squad that needs to be fired for cowardice, and more. Besides the absolute incompetence of the Capitol Police for allowing this to happen in the first place, I am not going to defend a guy that basically admitted to the DoJ that he had no justification for shooting someone. Apparently you want to pigeonhole me into a position and, sorry, I’m not going to play that game.
The more and more we see of this from these videos, to the pictures of some in full tactical gear with zip ties (who went to take hostages), combined with the fact that explosive devices were found later at nearby buildings, its simply amazing the cops didn’t shoot more of them.
They should have shot more of them to prevent selfie tours like this from happening ever again.
agreed. good thing they didn't take a lethal dose of fentanyl beforehand, making them impervious to criticism. hope these criminals get what they deserve.
Prosecute all of the trespassers, vandals, and batterers. Especially whoever laid the pipe bombs at the RNC and DNC offices. I’m actually surprised they haven’t found that person yet.
They did find a guy with a smoking gun this week: a lego set of the Capitol building.
Oh and your zip-tie guy actually took them from a Capitol Police officer’s table after he entered the building with his mother.
The Capitol riot's 'zip-tie guy' appeared to take the plastic handcuffs from Capitol police, prosecutors say
The handcuffs raised questions about whether some insurrectionists had plans to take lawmakers hostage.
www.insider.com
In the Nicole Hannah Jones historical record, not only did Trayvon not say that, but Zimmerman broke into his house and executed Trayvon while he was reading a bedtime story to his little brother.
There were no government buildings attacked during those riots, no occupations of American private and public property for months, no murders, no incendiary devices, no beatings of police and private citizens, no rapes and muggings in occupied zones, not one person in any of those ever threatened an officer’s life, there was no planning, and there were no armed groups involved dedicated to subverting the laws and sovereignty of the United States. The only time any of that happened is on January 6th.
The problem is that there were a lot of privately owned buildings burned, and private owners assaulted...
Minority business owners, not just rich white men, and insurance didn't cover a lot. That's why even minority owned businesses started hiring militias and security in the wake of Minnesota's $500M aid requests, mostly for private businesses, heavily minority, not public.
Most of the federal aid requests from states were to cover private businesses that could not even get insurance, or the insurance losses totalled more than underwriters could cover or the contract limits were exceeded. These are overwhelmingly minorities who become well to do and reinvest in their communities. This is little different than what happened in the late '60s, which destroyed many downtown areas, only now they are minoritu owned, unlike in the' 60s. Whatever the reasons, it's never good for the communities to wipe out private investments never to return.
This is why African-Americans marched on CNN on Atlanta when CNN kept calling privately owned buildings, mostly owned by minorities, as 'public.' In Portland, local, minority religious leaders appealed to the US Media, who refused to cover them, and only the local media did.
At some point, it doesn't really matter what the narratives are. We need to come together as a nation and tell everyone that wrong is wrong, left and right. It's frustrating to no end how the left and right have become about 'who's worse' and 'who gets a free pass' and, worst of all, all the 'new laws we need.'
The existing laws are just fine, if not a bit overkill. The problem is that we selectively enforce, which is why people argue for yet more laws 'against them.'
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Good one. I mean his words never said storm the Capitol and he condemned the riots but, sure, it’s been told enough that most believe it.
I agree 100% . I was using sarcasm lol which can't be read directly .
The core problem is ,as you pointed out, is the application of the law in a single event and the absence of the rule of law for months on end.
There was an element in how blacks were viewed a century ago and further back. It was once viewed that they were stupid and acted like animals and society treated them as such. I see our leaders especially on the left ,treating African Americans in a similar way today. it's soft bigotry where we just let them destroy property and businesses and give them their space to blow off steam and anger. Yah, that is what we do to angery bulls or horses , give em space because they don't know any better.
.When society has one set of laws, one standard and all of us fall under the same rules, expectations and consequences for violating the rule of law ,then you now have a structure of true equality. When we hold one group accountable and another we let slide you then set up inequality in treatment of people.
The Constitution makes zero provisions for blowing off steam and violence when you're pissed at government. What happened on January 6 should not be tolerated and what is happening in cities all across our country should not be tolerated. What truly bugs me about the destruction of private property, burning your neighborhood down and such is that the private residences and businesses in their own neighborhood had ZERO to do with bad cops killing people. Their grievances are totally misplaced and I totally disagree with their actions. The irony is they want change and want me in rural America to care about their plight. When you burn your own neighborhood down and shutter those small businesses out of fear ,I no longer hear or see your plight. Their behavior and actions don't endear me to their cause at all.
Ashli Babbit didn't need to die inspire of her wrong behavior. She could have been restrained. Is she anymore or less guilty / innocent than say George Floyd or Brianna Taylor? many would suggest those others were different,but not me because all of them died at the hands of law enforcement who made bad in the field choices. Their lives ended early by law enforcement.
The commission Congress should form is exaning ALL political violence and lawlessness by all who do it regardless of political leanings. Yet,they are cowards and will only focus on one group while ignoring and giving other group a complete pass.
Take the time to read the entire thread. It’s a lefty writing it but he makes some pretty astute observations.
I tend to agree, that being said, that also shows this was pre planned, by those who came prepared, and backs up the stories of those who said about 30 to 40 people in the crowd stirred up the trouble and led and instigated the break in. I have no problem with the force used against the mob, and I have no problems with charging those who broke in.
Ignoring context is not a sign of intelligence. It’s obvious based on the events that were unfolding that the events at the Capitol were predictable and encouraged by the president. His literal quotes are
"We’re going to walk down to the Capitol" to "cheer on our brave senators and congressmen and women."
"We're probably not going to be cheering so much for some of them because you'll never take back our country with weakness. You have to show strength, and you have to be strong."
Do you actually think he was encouraging them to cheer for the people certifying the election results? Most if not all those charged in the 1/6 events said they were instructed by the president. They apparently understood the context that you refuse to.
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