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What a shit show.

.

My 'totalitarian' views are pretty straightforward and simple. They include:
  • Maintaining our 250-year democracy.
  • Addressing Climate Change (Good God, how much more evidence to the knuckledraggers need that Mother Nature is Pissed??!?)
  • Setting priorities, making hard choices, and balancing our budget.
  • Not discriminating against other people.
  • Stepping up and establishing some common sense gun laws.
  • Stepping up and establishing some common sense immigration laws.
  • Giving women control over their own bodies (What a revolutionary thought!!!)
  • Believing modern medicine is a good thing.
  • Doing what we can to keep the world from blowing up around us (including helping Ukraine from being overrun by Putin's Russian army.)
If these beliefs are too radical and totalitarian, I don't know what to say other than 'guilty as charged.'
Well both sides pretty much to all of the above. Neither party cares about democracy, only winning.

Temps rose by .82 degrees in 50 years, We KNOW the earth has been both hotter and colder without burning fossil fuels. so yes this knuckledragger questions the scientist that make a living off the sale of global warming.

Neither party cares about balancing the budget, and anyone who even hints at it is called a radical for trying. Reducing any spending from any bill on Mount Porkulas is not allowed.

Everyone discriminates against other people. Anyone who thinks otherwise is just plain simple minded.

Expecting common sense out of a swampster of either party on guns or immigration is naive at best. If you agree with the gun/immigration policy it is common sense if not it is idiotic.

Most agree on women's bodies, but at some point in pregnancy there is a baby human's body to be considered.

Good modern medicine is a good thing. bad medicine is not. We should be able to disagree if MRNA vaccine is or isn't good modern medicine. New products come and go that turn out bad.

Helping Ukraine is ok, but how much and how should be debated. At what point is the cost worse than the benefit. We are spending down our ability to fight when we send them more than we can produce.

There are always 2 sides to every argument, and rarely is one side totally correct.
 
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Well both sides pretty much to all of the above. Neither party cares about democracy, only winning.
I've listed some of the examples of the GOP not giving a sh*t about democracy. Since this is supposedly another one of your 'both sides' deals, how have those evil dems been doing it?
Temps rose by .82 degrees in 50 years, We KNOW the earth has been both hotter and colder without burning fossil fuels. so yes this knuckledragger questions the scientist that make a living off the sale of global warming.
SMH. If you got through this summer blissfully ignorant of the effects of global warming, you're a lost cause.
Neither party cares about balancing the budget, and anyone who even hints at it is called a radical for trying.
Hey, we agree on something!!!
Everyone discriminates against other people. Anyone who thinks otherwise is just plain simple minded.
Agree again.
Expecting common sense out of a swampster of either party on guns or immigration is naive at best.
Yeah, I'm naive. I expect our representatives to look out for the people they represent and work across the aisle to pass legislation that addresses the issues we face.
Most agree on women's bodies, but at some point in pregnancy there is a baby human's body to be considered.
EXACTLY. That's why for fifty years, there been considerations given to the rights of women and the rights of the unborn. That dividing line has been around 23 weeks. Why change now?
Good modern medicine is a good thing. bad medicine is not. We should be able to disagree if MRNA vaccine is or isn't good modern medicine. New products come and go that turn out bad.
Tell that to Boston and UCFBS.
There are always 2 sides to every argument, and rarely is one side totally correct.
You've hit upon the secret to our democracy's 250 years history of success.
The problem comes when people start coming up with 'alternate facts' to support their side of the argument. That's no way to conduct meaningful debate.
 
Well both sides pretty much to all of the above. Neither party cares about democracy, only winning.

Temps rose by .82 degrees in 50 years, We KNOW the earth has been both hotter and colder without burning fossil fuels. so yes this knuckledragger questions the scientist that make a living off the sale of global warming.

Neither party cares about balancing the budget, and anyone who even hints at it is called a radical for trying. Reducing any spending from any bill on Mount Porkulas is not allowed.

Everyone discriminates against other people. Anyone who thinks otherwise is just plain simple minded.

Expecting common sense out of a swampster of either party on guns or immigration is naive at best. If you agree with the gun/immigration policy it is common sense if not it is idiotic.

Most agree on women's bodies, but at some point in pregnancy there is a baby human's body to be considered.

Good modern medicine is a good thing. bad medicine is not. We should be able to disagree if MRNA vaccine is or isn't good modern medicine. New products come and go that turn out bad.

Helping Ukraine is ok, but how much and how should be debated. At what point is the cost worse than the benefit. We are spending down our ability to fight when we send them more than we can produce.

There are always 2 sides to every argument, and rarely is one side totally correct.
The problem is that the government is funding poor solutions. That's what is pissing a lot of us off.

But when we engineers point these things out, we're labeled climate deniers by people who couldn't understand the first thing about electricity.

And that's the problem. And yes, there are a lot of scientists who don't get grants unless there is bias and an agenda.

Case in point...

As more and more studies showcase how the lockdowns caused more medical issues and deaths, and actually harmed children and education, let alone caused massive destruction, macroeconomically in ways like non-Lockdown countries didn't suffer, and didn't have any worse COVID rates...

Even Dr. Fauci admitted he wasn't responsible if the lockdowns caused more harm than good because he wasn't a psychologist, economicist and so many other things. And that's how and why grants and government intervention usually works.

Excess deaths are real. And impacts to our children are real. We have a significant subset of children that are in educationally deficient, and a grown group of increased violence. No one is denying it.

Just like the Corporate Media... they are devoid of engineering feasibility and, more importantly, a true evaluation of impact. I mean, the term 'Net Zero' is the biggest load of BS ever created.

And yes, we engineers study all systems, including economic. And we're tired of the BS. There is so much BS science right now, and so many narratives that are false, we're literally dumbfounded.

And all I have to do is looking at luxury eV companies and laugh... and then cry.
 
House lawmakers wrap up for the weekend without electing a new Speaker??!?
If you ever wanted evidence that the GOP doesn't give a fcuk about governing, this is it.
 
The problem is that the government is funding poor solutions. That's what is pissing a lot of us off.

But when we engineers point these things out, we're labeled climate deniers by people who couldn't understand the first thing about electricity.

And that's the problem. And yes, there are a lot of scientists who don't get grants unless there is bias and an agenda.

Case in point...

As more and more studies showcase how the lockdowns caused more medical issues and deaths, and actually harmed children and education, let alone caused massive destruction, macroeconomically in ways like non-Lockdown countries didn't suffer, and didn't have any worse COVID rates...

Even Dr. Fauci admitted he wasn't responsible if the lockdowns caused more harm than good because he wasn't a psychologist, economicist and so many other things. And that's how and why grants and government intervention usually works.

Excess deaths are real. And impacts to our children are real. We have a significant subset of children that are in educationally deficient, and a grown group of increased violence. No one is denying it.

Just like the Corporate Media... they are devoid of engineering feasibility and, more importantly, a true evaluation of impact. I mean, the term 'Net Zero' is the biggest load of BS ever created.

And yes, we engineers study all systems, including economic. And we're tired of the BS. There is so much BS science right now, and so many narratives that are false, we're literally dumbfounded.

And all I have to do is looking at luxury eV companies and laugh... and then cry.
I agree on the vaccines. I think it turned out to be not so good medicine. I think you should be able to point that out and prove it as much as you can, those on other side should be able to do the same thing in arguing for it. They have a long enough track record to show it at best isn't as good as they pushed it to be. and at worse does more damage to people than good.
I am also with u on man made climate change, but we are considered lesser beings for questioning the idea.

As for abortion Dshucks 23 weeks is 5 mos in, there is no reason to put it off that long. I am personally fine with 12 to 15 weeks. That is more than enough time to make a decision. Most people don't want to completely do away with nor have unfettered abortions. The fuss is over the limits put in place.
 
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I am also with u on man made climate change, but we are considered lesser beings for questioning the idea.
My biggest issue with climate change is that we're not addressing the problem, our solutions are worse, and we're making even more impact, not less.

I'm hardly a Toyota defender, but they're not wrong about hybrids, and Europe is the proof. And I've never seen a feasible, huge battery-only car that didn't have major impacts. A Prius, at this time, is one of the least, impactful cars on the road.

The 'zero impact' lie has to go. Same with thinking luxury eVs are the solution. No, it's smaller vehicles, ideally hybrids, then small battery eV + fuel cell in the future.
 
Are you fcuking kidding me??!? $5.5 BILLION people have taken them for crying out loud. SMH.
Yes, and the US and CDC is in denial of all the negative results. Germany is not. Every Scandinavian country is not. The EU and EMA are not.

You are in the middle of a complete compaign of lies.
 
Back on topic....

We've gone a week now without a functioning House of Representatives. The House may be 'shutdown' and Reps twiddling their fingers but they're still getting paid by golly.
 
Our government does the least damage, when it can't do any work. They have not had a budget since 1990, BY Choice Constitution requires they do one. since then we have added 29 trillion to the 3.1 trillion dollar debt. That came with DEMS and REP people doing what they do.
Dont talk to me about a functioning House, It never functions for the country. These clowns care about themselves and little else. They all need to be fired. But Both parties keep putting the same foxes in the chicken house.
rich men north of richmond.
 
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Back on topic....

We've gone a week now without a functioning House of Representatives. The House may be 'shutdown' and Reps twiddling their fingers but they're still getting paid by golly.
Dems provided all but 8 votes to put them there. Dems are still getting paid by golly.
 
My biggest issue with climate change is that we're not addressing the problem, our solutions are worse, and we're making even more impact, not less.

I'm hardly a Toyota defender, but they're not wrong about hybrids, and Europe is the proof. And I've never seen a feasible, huge battery-only car that didn't have major impacts. A Prius, at this time, is one of the least, impactful cars on the road.

The 'zero impact' lie has to go. Same with thinking luxury eVs are the solution. No, it's smaller vehicles, ideally hybrids, then small battery eV + fuel cell in the future.
Batteries are a bridge technology to hydrogen
 
House lawmakers wrap up for the weekend without electing a new Speaker??!?
If you ever wanted evidence that the GOP doesn't give a fcuk about governing, this is it.
Going home without finishing business is normal in Washington, and not just a Republican issue.
 
That philosophy is why Republicans have led us down this road to ruin.
What ruin? Has your life changed other than your angst. Would they have accomplished anything if McCarthy was still there? Answer to both is NO.

Trigeek" Batteries are a bridge technology to hydrogen"
could be or they could be a bridge to nowhere. But agree they are not the answer now or longterm.
 
That philosophy is why Republicans have led us down this road to ruin.
What ruin. Dems control the senate and the Prez. Reps barely have majority in the house. My life has not changed one bit by congress which isn't even in session 1/2 the time not having a speaker of house for couple of weeks. All but 8 republicans voted for the status quo, every democrat voted for the Kayos. Dems only cared about politics and their power and not the country. Just like the 8 republicans did.
 
After pointing out my "totalitarianism," your babbling get incomprehensible.

I've been a registered Democrat, Republican, and independent at one time or another so I'm guessing that makes me a lukewarm "team" member, whereever you want to place me.

My 'totalitarian' views are pretty straightforward and simple. They include:
  • Maintaining our 250-year democracy.
  • Addressing Climate Change (Good God, how much more evidence to the knuckledraggers need that Mother Nature is Pissed??!?)
  • Setting priorities, making hard choices, and balancing our budget.
  • Not discriminating against other people.
  • Stepping up and establishing some common sense gun laws.
  • Stepping up and establishing some common sense immigration laws.
  • Giving women control over their own bodies (What a revolutionary thought!!!)
  • Believing modern medicine is a good thing.
  • Doing what we can to keep the world from blowing up around us (including helping Ukraine from being overrun by Putin's Russian army.)
If these beliefs are too radical and totalitarian, I don't know what to say other than 'guilty as charged.'
Your using common sense and logic again. :cool:
 
I personally love how the 'address climate change' folk are pushing for everything that is making the environment worse.

And if you try to explain how a hybrid like a Prius uses less fossil fuels and emits less CO2 and has a lower impact than a big battery only eV, then they go full retard and ... well ... expose themselves ... but only to those of us with such knowledge and ability to describe all the impact involved.

Most of us calling out the total and complete ****tards are Electrical and Environmental Engineers. We're asking you to stop the insanity. But nope, you guys that are engineering dufus' 'know better' than the engineers building things, providing the power, etc...

And ... we must be climate deniers, MAGA and Trump supporters and other things. No wonder the left are the bitch mother****ers who are causing more lobbyist dollars to be wasted on 'Green' bullshit.

All while accelerating the environmental catatrophy, and making the US more dependent on fossil fuels! The entire Biden administration literally did that, and we're back to producing even more!

Sigh ... I told you so too! We all did! Oh, that's right, we must be MAGA.
 
When it comes crashing down, you'll wonder 'how the hell did that happen?'
This back-and-forth garbage has happened for years, it isn't new. If it crashes down it will be for the garbage, they have done, not what they didn't do. We are 33 trillion in debt, and it is expected to be over 50 in just a few years. That may well be the back breaker, but it wasn't caused by what they did not do.

The house isn;t going to do anything in the near future that will prevent the house of cards collapse. That is a simple fact, If being in limbo for 8 days is going to hurt then maybe the should take a hell of alot of vacation days.
 
This back-and-forth garbage has happened for years, it isn't new. If it crashes down it will be for the garbage, they have done, not what they didn't do. We are 33 trillion in debt, and it is expected to be over 50 in just a few years. That may well be the back breaker, but it wasn't caused by what they did not do.

The house isn;t going to do anything in the near future that will prevent the house of cards collapse. That is a simple fact, If being in limbo for 8 days is going to hurt then maybe the should take a hell of alot of vacation days.
Man, we are so lucky to have such a brilliant polymath grace us with his presence. Not only did you manage to prove NOAA and NWS wrong with a mere high school diploma despite their multi Petaflop supercomputers, but now you are revolutionizing the world of macroeconomics with your experience as a pool cleaning boy! Bravo.
 
This back-and-forth garbage has happened for years, it isn't new. If it crashes down it will be for the garbage, they have done, not what they didn't do. We are 33 trillion in debt, and it is expected to be over 50 in just a few years. That may well be the back breaker, but it wasn't caused by what they did not do.
Once upon a time, the business man in me looked at our national debt and believed the same thing that goodknightfl posted here. To get 'our house in order,' it was going to mean our leaders needed to take a fiscally conservate approach and pass a real, honest-to-goodness budget (fyi, the last one was 26 years ago.)

A good one would be guaranteed to piss off lobbiests on all sides. But it would be built with a resolve to set aside money to pay down the deficit so that someday it would be gone. That would mean an extra $479 billion American taxpayers would no longer be paying in interest.
 
Once upon a time, the business man in me looked at our national debt and believed the same thing that goodknightfl posted here. To get 'our house in order,' it was going to mean our leaders needed to take a fiscally conservate approach and pass a real, honest-to-goodness budget (fyi, the last one was 26 years ago.)

A good one would be guaranteed to piss off lobbiests on all sides. But it would be built with a resolve to set aside money to pay down the deficit so that someday it would be gone. That would mean an extra $479 billion American taxpayers would no longer be paying in interest.
"honey, i had to use red text today"
 
House lawmakers wrap up for the weekend without electing a new Speaker??!?
If you ever wanted evidence that the GOP doesn't give a fcuk about governing, this is it.
They would have wrapped up for the weekend with a speaker as well. The congress, senate, President never waste a good weekend on business.
 
Are you fcuking kidding me??!? $5.5 BILLION people have taken them for crying out loud. SMH.
And they didn't stop vaccinated from getting covid, They didn't slow/stop the vaccinated from spreading covid, and caused other medical problems for some who took it. myocarditis, an inflammation of the heart muscle, Blood clots. 5.5 billion were pumped full of this poison.
 
And they didn't stop vaccinated from getting covid, They didn't slow/stop the vaccinated from spreading covid, and caused other medical problems for some who took it. myocarditis, an inflammation of the heart muscle, Blood clots. 5.5 billion were pumped full of this poison.
Man, we are so lucky to have a high school graduate that is smarter than the CDC, NOAA and the IMF. How did you come by such incredible stores of wisdom cleaning pools for a living?

Season 5 Lol GIF by Real Husbands of Hollywood
 
And they didn't stop vaccinated from getting covid, They didn't slow/stop the vaccinated from spreading covid, and caused other medical problems for some who took it. myocarditis, an inflammation of the heart muscle, Blood clots. 5.5 billion were pumped full of this poison.

but but, it prevents serious illness and death 🤭💰🤦‍♀️☢️
 
A study by a research team in Switzerland found possible signs of mild and transient damage to cardiac cells following vaccination, but didn’t find evidence of abnormal heart function or myocarditis. Getting COVID-19 is associated with a higher risk of cardiovascular complications than vaccination, and the outcomes are worse. COVID-19 vaccines are safe and effective at reducing the risks of severe forms of the disease, including serious cardiovascular issues.
FULL CLAIM: “1 in 35 people showed signs of heart damage after taking the Moderna COVID19 vaccine”; it is a “kill shot”; “this is a range of adverse reaction that is off the scale in healthcare”; taking “this kind of risk, it’s just complete madness”


REVIEW​

A research team led by cardiologist Christian Mueller published a study in July 2023 investigating the effects of the Moderna mRNA COVID-19 booster vaccination on the heart[1]. Soon after the study’s publication, posts on social media circulated claiming that the study had revealed that mRNA vaccines were damaging people’s hearts.

It’s not the first time this research team’s findings have been used as a basis for misinformation. Similar posts occurred after Mueller presented the team’s main findings in 2022 at a scientific conference. Health Feedback explained why those posts were erroneous in a previous review.
Of the now-published study, the Gateway Pundit said that “1 in 35 people showed signs of heart damage after taking the Moderna COVID19 vaccine” and called it a “kill shot”. The Pundit added that “They forced Americans to take this vaccine to work and attend public events”, implying that vaccine mandates combined with the use of mRNA vaccines had put people at risk.
YouTuber and retired nurse instructor John Campbell also claimed that the study had identified an “off the scale” rate of vaccine-associated heart injury, repeating the “1 in 35” figure at length and describing this finding as “astounding”. He also commented that “we just don’t take this kind of risk, it’s just complete madness”.
Overall, such language gave the impression that the study showed that COVID-19 mRNA vaccines would lead to serious heart problems and placed people at an unnecessary risk.
Both the Gateway Pundit and Campbell have previously spread COVID-19 and vaccine disinformation, as we and others established on multiple occasions.

What the study did​

To understand why these claims are misleading, we must first understand what the study did. The research team recruited volunteers who were planning to receive a third dose of Moderna mRNA vaccine (booster dose). The researchers excluded from the study people who had a cardiac event or surgery the month before. This is because these people are already likely to show signs of heart damage for reasons unrelated to the vaccine.
The researchers then measured the amount of high-sensitivity cardiac troponin T (hs-cTnT) in the volunteers’ blood three days after vaccination. Hs-cTnT is a protein present within the cells of the heart. When heart cells develop physical damage, even mild damage, some cells may rupture and release hs-cTnT into the blood. An elevated amount of hs-cTnT in the blood may thus indicate a possible heart injury.
From the total number of participants with elevated hs-cTnT, the researchers excluded those where an explanation other than vaccination was likely. For example, they excluded cases where a participant had a stably elevated hs-cTnT, indicating a possible chronic heart condition, or those whose preexisting troponin level was just slightly above the normal range.
This left 2.8% participants without other clear explanation for their elevated hs-cTnT than the fact that they had a booster shot. The researchers concluded from that that these people had a mRNA vaccine-associated heart injury. This is where the “1 in 35” figure repeated by the Gateway Pundit and Campbell comes from—2.8% is equivalent to 1 in 35.

Levels of hs-TnTc are only moderately and transiently elevated, the clinical relevance is debatable​

The “1 in 35” figure is thus accurate. The problem is that Campbell and the Gateway Pundit’s coverage overlooked the study’s limitations and exaggerated the significance of this figure.
First, the researchers didn’t measure the baseline level of hs-cTnT before vaccination. Even though they took care to exclude participants whose elevated troponin could be explained by something other than the vaccine, we still don’t know whether all the remaining participants had pre-vaccination troponin levels within the normal range. Some of them may have a higher than normal level of hs-cTnT for whichever reason and would be erroneously counted among the 2.8%.
Second, the elevation of troponin levels was only moderate and transient. Some of those who propagated the claim, like Campbell or the Gateway Pundit, did acknowledge this, but glossed over it and didn’t include it when assessing the importance of that finding. This is problematic because such a moderate increase might not be of much clinical significance, according to some experts.
Cardiologist Anish Koka explained on Twitter that the level of troponin was actually close to what is considered a normal level.
James de Lemos, a cardiology professor at the University of Texas, told Lead Stories that “these small troponin elevations are not likely events of clinical significance”.
Lead Stories also talked to William Schaffner, a professor of health policy at Vanderbilt University, who emphasized that the troponin elevation was “mild, temporary and totally without symptoms”.
In a similar vein, James Lawler, a professor in the division of infectious diseases of the University of Nebraska, told Lead Stories that “All of these were mild elevations […] and most seemed to revert to normal quickly”.
In fact, hs-cTnT can rise to a similar level even after normal physical activity, like intensive exercise, as scientist Susan Oliver pointed out in her review of Campbell’s video. A meta-analysis of studies on troponin levels during physical activity found that endurance exercise increased the level of hs-cTnT by an average of 26 ng/L[2]. After an intense swimming exercise, hs-cTnT peaked between 11.9 and 22.7 ng/L in teenagers and adults[3]. Similarly, the median level of hs-cTnT rose to 21 ng/L in adults and children hours after having played football (soccer)[4].
By comparison, the hs-cTnT level was only 5 ng/L among the participants in the study, and reached 13.5 ng/mL among the 2.8% who may have had a mRNA vaccine-associated heart injury.
Therefore, the level of troponin after vaccination is no higher, and sometimes even lower, than what could occur after an intense physical activity. Furthermore, the levels of hs-cTnT fell rapidly. Half of the participants with elevated levels at day three were already back to normal levels at day four.
As explained, elevated troponin can indicate damage to the heart cells. So it is important to directly examine the heart, using imaging or electrocardiogram (ECG) to check whether the heart is working properly. The study did just that and found that none of the participants had alterations in their ECG, and no definitive cases of myocarditis were found. Upon the follow-up at thirty days post-vaccination, none of them showed any major cardiac adverse events.
Therefore, there were no detectable or lasting cardiac consequences from COVID-19 mRNA vaccination. Proponents of the claim like Campbell and the Gateway Pundit promoted a dire account of the study’s results on elevated hs-cTnT that ignored the other results indicating no lasting changes to heart function. By doing so, they conveyed a distorted and exaggerated vision of the study’s message.
In a further misrepresentation of the study’s results, the Gateway Pundit also inaccurately claimed that the level of troponin was still above normal in half the participants one month later. In fact, the study didn’t perform any hs-cTnT measurement at one month post-vaccination, and as explained above, half the participants had already shown normal troponin levels by day four post-vaccination.
Similarly, Campbell claimed that people who had done strenuous exercise were excluded from the study beforehand. This is also false. While none of the participants reported such exercise, this wasn’t an exclusion criterion in the study.

COVID-19 is more likely cause serious cardiovascular problems compared to COVID-19 vaccination​

Not only did the claim exaggerate the significance of the elevated hs-cTnT reported in the study, but it also failed to put these results in perspective with the risks of COVID-19 itself.
The study acknowledged that “COVID-19 associates with a substantially higher risk for myocarditis than mRNA vaccination, and myocarditis related to COVID-19 infection has shown a higher mortality than myocarditis related to mRNA-vaccination”[1,5,6]. Indeed, contrary to the COVID-19 mRNA vaccines, COVID-19 can cause severe cardiovascular problems and is more likely to cause such problems[7,8].
Therefore, while the COVID-19 mRNA vaccines may cause mild and transient injury in heart cells, it reduces the risk of serious and possibly fatal cardiovascular complications from COVID-19. This is an important piece of information, necessary to fully assess the risk-benefit ratio of vaccination, that the claim overlooked. On balance, the benefits of COVID-19 vaccination outweigh its risks.

Conclusion​

The study by Mueller and his team offers new information on the effect of mRNA vaccination on the heart. They found that booster shots caused a mild increase in hs-cTnT that could indicate transient and moderate damage to the cardiac cells.
However, the levels of elevated troponin observed in the study are moderate, similar to what can be observed after an intense exercise and may not be of clinical significance. The researchers also used direct methods of examining heart function, such as medical imaging and electrocardiograms, and didn’t detect any heart issues among vaccine recipients.
Therefore, those who framed the study as showing that COVID-19 mRNA vaccines were causing unexpected and dangerous damage to people’s hearts are exaggerating the results. As Mueller told Lead Stories: “Unfortunately, even now in Summer 2023 it seems difficult to have a balanced discussion on this side effect [myocardial injury]. Some people as [Campbell] massively exaggerate, others completely ignore it”.

REFERENCES​

 
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did it ever come crashing down? Enquiring minds want to know.
The closest threat to democracy was the growing Nazi movement in this country prior to WWII. But after the war, it was one of those historical 'it never happened' things like the Tulsa race riot.
 
The closest threat to democracy was the growing Nazi movement in this country prior to WWII. But after the war, it was one of those historical 'it never happened' things like the Tulsa race riot.
What does that have to do with Congress not having a speaker of the house for 1 week?
 
You asked about it crashing down. The Civil War was obviously the biggest threat. Certainly the crap going on in the GOP-led House and in within the party and its leader is becoming more and more anti-democratic by the day.
 
They voted out a speaker of the house and voted in a new speaker. How exactly is that undemocratic?
 
They voted out a speaker of the house and voted in a new speaker. How exactly is that undemocratic?
Uh..........what do you know about our new Speaker, Mike Johnson?

Look at the things he's said and done in the past and then tell me with a straight face what a champion of democracy he is. You might note that:
  • He was the mastermind in Congress behind Trump's election coup
  • He doesn't believe in the separation of church and state (apparently HIS religious beliefs trump everybody elses)
  • He worked for the legal group behind the case that ultimately ended Roe v. Wade
  • He's on record as wanting to ban abortion nationwide with no exceptions
  • Get this: He's blamed abortion for school shootings (he's also blamed them on...gasp...the teaching of evolution in our schools!!!!
  • He fought to ban same-sex marriages in Louisiana (his wife is an anti-gay 'therapist'
How's that for starters?
 
Uh..........what do you know about our new Speaker, Mike Johnson?

Look at the things he's said and done in the past and then tell me with a straight face what a champion of democracy he is. You might note that:
  • He was the mastermind in Congress behind Trump's election coup
  • He doesn't believe in the separation of church and state (apparently HIS religious beliefs trump everybody elses)
  • He worked for the legal group behind the case that ultimately ended Roe v. Wade
  • He's on record as wanting to ban abortion nationwide with no exceptions
  • Get this: He's blamed abortion for school shootings (he's also blamed them on...gasp...the teaching of evolution in our schools!!!!
  • He fought to ban same-sex marriages in Louisiana (his wife is an anti-gay 'therapist'
How's that for starters?
It doesn't matter if I agree with him. he was Elected speaker, by the entire party. I disagreed with Pelosi all the time, but she was stilll elected to the office. Roe v Wade was bad law and should have been overturned. Pass an amendment if you want to put it in the constitution. Many states are locking in the right at stronger level than it was before. Other states are tightening the laws. Very little has changed just where decisions are made.

Hell even Obama was against same sex marriage, most people were until they were not. i don't know if I agree with supreme court on their decision, but It was based on much better law than Roe. I admit I have changed my opinion on same sex marriage, though I would prefer the legal status of marriage just go away. If just 5 democrats would have voted for what you complain about being wrong rather than for Pary good, Mc Carthy would still be speaker.
 
It doesn't matter if I agree with him. he was Elected...
That's quaint Old School thinking. Nowadays, if you don't like the results, you declare "it was rigged."
Roe v Wade was bad law and should have been overturned.
Bad law? Only if you are a theocrat like your new Speaker, Mike Johnson. Within the next ten years that 'bad law' will be reinstated across the country. Book it.
Hell even Obama was against same sex marriage, most people were until they were not.
Fascinating how that works, huh? Once upon a time, women couldn't vote and slavery was legal. There's this thing in the Constitution about 'everybody being equal' that we started paying attention to.
 
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