ADVERTISEMENT

Abortion is love

Ah yes, the lefts favorite thing - the total dehumanization of unborn children to justify their mass slaughter.

I’ve been through 3 pregnancy verification ultrasounds now with my wife - never once did I see a “blob of cells”. I saw a human child, with human body parts, and a beating heart.

If you want to excuse your acceptance of the mass slaughter of unborn children for matters of convenience then fine, at least be honest about it.
Please stop breeding.

So, how far along are these ultrasounds usually?

97% of all abortions occur before Week 13. At week 13, a fetus usually weighs about 0.75 ounces. This is about the age when the heart is actually close to fully formed. It may, but not likely, be able to be heard with a doppler. Give it another 7 weeks or so until you can likely hear it with a stethoscope. Limbs are just starting to be formed.

These are the facts. I know you may have emotional attachment because you've seen your own offspring at this stage, but at this point it is not a "baby".

And again, 97% of all abortions happen before this stage, when the fetus is likely less than 0.75 ounces.
 
Who is turning poor women into breeding slaves? I know you just use moronic hyperbole but really, WTF are you talking about?
Yeah, the same folks too inconvenienced to wear a mask in public or to take a vaccine shot, can't imagine what's the big deal about forcing a woman to serve as a human incubator against her will.
 
Please stop breeding.

So, how far along are these ultrasounds usually?

97% of all abortions occur before Week 13. At week 13, a fetus usually weighs about 0.75 ounces. This is about the age when the heart is actually close to fully formed. It may, but not likely, be able to be heard with a doppler. Give it another 7 weeks or so until you can likely hear it with a stethoscope. Limbs are just starting to be formed.

These are the facts. I know you may have emotional attachment because you've seen your own offspring at this stage, but at this point it is not a "baby".

And again, 97% of all abortions happen before this stage, when the fetus is likely less than 0.75 ounces.
Then why all the outrage over the Mississippi law? That set the limit at 16 weeks.
 
Then why all the outrage over the Mississippi law? That set the limit at 16 weeks.
This thread was about Row v. Wade possibly being overturned, no?
The true issue is state governments doing everything they can short of actually banning abortion, to effectively ban abortion which they are not allowed to do as long as Row. v. Wade stands.

Should we start having real discussions about "viability" (20-23 week range) and a lower number like 15 weeks? Sure, if those were done in good conscience. But that isn't how we're going about things here in good ole 'Murica.
Most countries have limited voluntary abortion to the 12-15 week range. I see a case for that, and wouldn't necessarily disagree with it personally. But, that isn't what Republicans are trying to do.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DaShuckster
Then why all the outrage over the Mississippi law? That set the limit at 16 weeks.
LOL This gem from the same guy outraged over the Big Bad Government pushing people to get....gasp!...a vaccine shot and wear masks in public!!!!
 
This thread was about Row v. Wade possibly being overturned, no?
The true issue is state governments doing everything they can short of actually banning abortion, to effectively ban abortion which they are not allowed to do as long as Row. v. Wade stands.

Should we start having real discussions about "viability" (20-23 week range) and a lower number like 15 weeks? Sure, if those were done in good conscience. But that isn't how we're going about things here in good ole 'Murica.
Most countries have limited voluntary abortion to the 12-15 week range. I see a case for that, and wouldn't necessarily disagree with it personally. But, that isn't what Republicans are trying to do.
The thread may be, but this whole situation was brought about by people that sued Mississippi over the 16 week time limit. Maybe they should have stepped back and thought about what could happen instead of throwing an unnecessary fit.
 
Who is turning poor women into breeding slaves? I know you just use moronic hyperbole but really, WTF are you talking about?
How many fingers do you think it would take the two of them to count the poverty level individuals of any ethnicity that they know?
 
Please stop breeding.

So, how far along are these ultrasounds usually?

97% of all abortions occur before Week 13. At week 13, a fetus usually weighs about 0.75 ounces. This is about the age when the heart is actually close to fully formed. It may, but not likely, be able to be heard with a doppler. Give it another 7 weeks or so until you can likely hear it with a stethoscope. Limbs are just starting to be formed.

These are the facts. I know you may have emotional attachment because you've seen your own offspring at this stage, but at this point it is not a "baby".

And again, 97% of all abortions happen before this stage, when the fetus is likely less than 0.75 ounces.

Who are you to say if it’s a baby or not? You’re basically wanting to play God on deciding at what point during the natural growth evolution of a child we will draw an arbitrary line, declaring that murder of said child is “ok” or not. This is why the dehumanizing of the fetus is important - if you can convince people that the “blob of cells” wouldn’t have developed meaningfully beyond when it was killed, it feels better to do it.

Our ultrasounds were at 10 weeks and we saw a baby. A human child. Not a blob of cells.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: chemmie
Who are you to say if it’s a baby or not? You’re basically wanting to play God on deciding at what point during the natural growth evolution of a child we will draw an arbitrary line, declaring that murder of said child is “ok” or not. This is why the dehumanizing of the fetus is important - if you can convince people that the “blob of cells” wouldn’t have developed meaningfully beyond when it was killed, it feels better to do it.

Our ultrasounds were at 10 weeks and we saw a baby. A human child. Not a blob of cells.
I am honestly not even trying to be offensive, but you are letting your emotions distort reality.
At 10 weeks, the fetus is maybe 1.5 inches in length and about 0.15 ounces. The heart isn't fully formed. Bones are barely formed in some areas. The necessary formation to sustain life isn't there. So, it may have some features, but it is still just a tiny mass.

I understand, though. You see a baby. You see your family, the love and the joy and the care.
Unfortunately, there are far too many people out there who don't have the privilege of seeing all that, and performing a medical procedure to stop the development at this point is their choice in most all "free" societies.
 
I am honestly not even trying to be offensive, but you are letting your emotions distort reality.
At 10 weeks, the fetus is maybe 1.5 inches in length and about 0.15 ounces. The heart isn't fully formed. Bones are barely formed in some areas. The necessary formation to sustain life isn't there. So, it may have some features, but it is still just a tiny mass.

I understand, though. You see a baby. You see your family, the love and the joy and the care.
Unfortunately, there are far too many people out there who don't have the privilege of seeing all that, and performing a medical procedure to stop the development at this point is their choice in most all "free" societies.
This is a much better tact for the left to take on this issue than "they want to turn women into human incubators". You'll never be able to come to agreement with those that believe life begins at conception, but I'd be willing to bet that a large majority on the right would be willing to concede a pre-viability timeframe. And as you said earlier, 97% of abortions are performed in that timeframe so the left shouldn't that hard to convince either.
 
This is a much better tact for the left to take on this issue than "they want to turn women into human incubators". You'll never be able to come to agreement with those that believe life begins at conception, but I'd be willing to bet that a large majority on the right would be willing to concede a pre-viability timeframe. And as you said earlier, 97% of abortions are performed in that timeframe so the left shouldn't that hard to convince either.
But then people would have nothing to yell about on the internets.
Row v. Wade established viability at 21 or 23 weeks (something like that.) As I said in my earlier post, many countries have now gone down to a 15-ish week timeframe, and I see an argument for that. But complete abolishment is absurd and backwards given modern medical technology and what we know.
 
This is a much better tact for the left to take on this issue than "they want to turn women into human incubators".
LOL A much better tact? So say the people who throw around terms like "Baby Murderers."
You'll never be able to come to agreement with those that believe life begins at conception, but I'd be willing to bet that a large majority on the right would be willing to concede a pre-viability timeframe.
Willing to concede a pre-viability timeframe? Are you kidding me??? That's been a point of contention for as long as Roe has been around for crying out loud!!!

If anything, the Religious Right has gotten more radical over time. Once upon a time, you could get SOME folks to agree there should be exceptions for rape and incest. Nowadays? NADDA.
 
But then people would have nothing to yell about on the internets.
Row v. Wade established viability at 21 or 23 weeks (something like that.) As I said in my earlier post, many countries have now gone down to a 15-ish week timeframe, and I see an argument for that. But complete abolishment is absurd and backwards given modern medical technology and what we know.
If the Roe ruling is obsolete then why keep it in place though? Would you have a problem with SCOTUS coming back and saying that Roe is gone and abortions before 16 weeks are protected by this ruling? That's essentially what Mississippi is asking for.
 
LOL A much better tact? So say the people who throw around terms like "Baby Murderers."

Willing to concede a pre-viability timeframe?
Are you kidding me??? That's been a point of contention for as long as Roe has been around for crying out loud!!!

If anything, the Religious Right has gotten more radical over time. Once upon a time, you could get SOME folks to agree there should be exceptions for rape and incest. Nowadays? NADDA.
This is why you can't be taken seriously. At most, half of a percent of people would argue against abortion in the case of rape or incest. I've never met a person that would.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Knight In TN
If the Roe ruling is obsolete then why keep it in place though? Would you have a problem with SCOTUS coming back and saying that Roe is gone and abortions before 16 weeks are protected by this ruling? That's essentially what Mississippi is asking for.
No. That isn't what they are asking for. Texas has admitted that already have legislation ready to abolish abortion once Row v Wade is overturned. Mississippi only has one abortion clinic in the whole state. They want to abolish.
 
No. That isn't what they are asking for. Texas has admitted that already have legislation ready to abolish abortion once Row v Wade is overturned. Mississippi only has one abortion clinic in the whole state. They want to abolish.
Yes, if Roe is eliminated and not replaced. Personally I find that to be highly unlikely as Roberts will likely be the one writing the majority opinion. He won't just throw out Roe and Casey without creating a new standard of law. Texas will be overturned by this and have to adhere to the new ruling, as will the other 22 states that have automatic triggers written into their constitutions.
 
The law makes no exceptions for victims of rape or incest.
Why would there need to be an exception when those people could get an abortion in the same amount of time alloted as anyone else? You'd think they would be the first to make that decision.
 
  • Dislike
Reactions: chemmie
Why would there need to be an exception when those people could get an abortion in the same amount of time alloted as anyone else? You'd think they would be the first to make that decision.
Yeah, riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. :rolleyes:

From the link below: The Safe Alliance in Austin, Texas, helps survivors of child abuse, sexual assault and domestic violence. Before Texas’ new abortion law took effect, the organization counseled a 12-year-old who had been repeatedly raped by her father.

Piper Stege Nelson, chief public strategies officer for the Safe Alliance, said the girl’s father didn’t let her leave the house. “She got pregnant,” Nelson said. “She had no idea about anything about her body. She certainly didn’t know that she was pregnant.” The girl eventually got help, but if this had happened after Sept. 1, when the state law took effect, her options would have been severely curtailed, Nelson said.

 
Yeah, riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. :rolleyes:

From the link below: The Safe Alliance in Austin, Texas, helps survivors of child abuse, sexual assault and domestic violence. Before Texas’ new abortion law took effect, the organization counseled a 12-year-old who had been repeatedly raped by her father.

Piper Stege Nelson, chief public strategies officer for the Safe Alliance, said the girl’s father didn’t let her leave the house. “She got pregnant,” Nelson said. “She had no idea about anything about her body. She certainly didn’t know that she was pregnant.” The girl eventually got help, but if this had happened after Sept. 1, when the state law took effect, her options would have been severely curtailed, Nelson said.

No chance that story is completely made up.

"What we have seen over the years is a dramatic escalation,” she said. “I think what Texas shines a bright spotlight on is what disdain we have for the needs of women and girls, or people who can get pregnant even if they don’t identify as female.”

No political bias or motivation whatsoever I'm sure. And blaming the tea party is the icing on the cake.
 
I am honestly not even trying to be offensive, but you are letting your emotions distort reality.
At 10 weeks, the fetus is maybe 1.5 inches in length and about 0.15 ounces. The heart isn't fully formed. Bones are barely formed in some areas. The necessary formation to sustain life isn't there. So, it may have some features, but it is still just a tiny mass.

I understand, though. You see a baby. You see your family, the love and the joy and the care.
Unfortunately, there are far too many people out there who don't have the privilege of seeing all that, and performing a medical procedure to stop the development at this point is their choice in most all "free" societies.

Ok, so it's very, very small? Yes we were given the size guide during each ultrasound. Here's what a 10 week ultrasound looks like:

image


Note the lack of "blob of cells" and image of a human with defined human characteristics. Regardless though, you're still drawing arbitrary lines between when we decide it is or isn't "ok" to end life. This is a human child that is developing through the biological steps of growing larger as an unborn human child, who will then be born according to said biological steps. There is no ambiguity as to what's going on here - it's a human life that is in the stages of development.

Arbitrarily picking what stage of development makes it acceptable to kill the fetus is irrelevant. We are either condoning the mass slaughter of unborn children or we aren't.
 
Ok, so it's very, very small? Yes we were given the size guide during each ultrasound. Here's what a 10 week ultrasound looks like:

image


Note the lack of "blob of cells" and image of a human with defined human characteristics. Regardless though, you're still drawing arbitrary lines between when we decide it is or isn't "ok" to end life. This is a human child that is developing through the biological steps of growing larger as an unborn human child, who will then be born according to said biological steps. There is no ambiguity as to what's going on here - it's a human life that is in the stages of development.

Arbitrarily picking what stage of development makes it acceptable to kill the fetus is irrelevant. We are either condoning the mass slaughter of unborn children or we aren't.
It is extremely frustrating that we can’t have this conversation with that foundational fact as input. We cannot determine what is best for society when we want to obscure the reality of our actions. In an age where we are so fully invested in bringing all aspect of our nation’s history and psyche to light to be used in the discussion, that so many cannot even acknowledge that a human embryo is a human life is astounding.
 
It is extremely frustrating that we can’t have this conversation with that foundational fact as input. We cannot determine what is best for society when we want to obscure the reality of our actions. In an age where we are so fully invested in bringing all aspect of our nation’s history and psyche to light to be used in the discussion, that so many cannot even acknowledge that a human embryo is a human life is astounding.
You left out the irony.
 
Last I checked, the United States was not a theocracy. You are free to be a good Catholic or whatever other faith you subscribe to. But you're not free to push your faith on others, particularly when it subjugates a segment of our population.
 
Last I checked, the United States was not a theocracy. You are free to be a good Catholic or whatever other faith you subscribe to. But you're not free to push your faith on others, particularly when it subjugates a segment of our population.

lol it’s this idiotic talking point again.

No one is pushing their faith on anyone. We are having the debate as a nation as to whether we want to be engaged in the deliberate mass slaughter of the unborn for matters of convenience.
 
No one is pushing their faith on anyone. We are having the debate as a nation as to whether we want to be engaged in the deliberate mass slaughter of the unborn for matters of convenience.
Every word out of your mouth is regurgitated from YOUR Catholic Church. No problem with that. But guess what? Not everybody or every faith believes with the Catholic Church that life begins at conception. This is the United States of America, not the Vatican. Quit forcing YOUR beliefs on others.
 
Every word out of your mouth is regurgitated from YOUR Catholic Church. No problem with that. But guess what? Not everybody or every faith believes with the Catholic Church that life begins at conception. This is the United States of America, not the Vatican. Quit forcing YOUR beliefs on others.
What is the UMC position on abortion?
 
Every word out of your mouth is regurgitated from YOUR Catholic Church. No problem with that. But guess what? Not everybody or every faith believes with the Catholic Church that life begins at conception. This is the United States of America, not the Vatican. Quit forcing YOUR beliefs on others.

Wow, it's so weird - there are millions of people in this country who are not Catholic and yet pro-life. There are atheist and agnostic pro-life groups. What are they pushing then?

I hate to break it to you, but the idea that we should not systematically slaughter human life for matters of convenience does not require a religious viewpoint to agree with. It's actually quite logical and agreeable as a position, if you choose not to believe the nonsense that the abortion lobby pushes out.

And, aren't you morons pushing your own beliefs? You're pushing pseudo-science that tries to claim that a human life is not in fact a human life. That's a dogmatic belief rather than anything that remotely makes biological sense.
 
And, aren't you morons pushing your own beliefs?
No, we 'morons' have been following the law of the land since 1973.

If this new Trump Court overturns Roe v. Wade next year, you'll see some pretty wild criminal laws coming from Republican state legislators. Then we can all play the "who are the morons?" game.
 
No, we 'morons' have been following the law of the land since 1973.

If this new Trump Court overturns Roe v. Wade next year, you'll see some pretty wild criminal laws coming from Republican state legislators. Then we can all play the "who are the morons?" game.

It was once legal to own slaves, too. I'm sure slave owners were just following the law of the land.

PS- much how the abortion lobby today insists that you can't have an opinion on abortion unless you're a (biological) woman, slave owners at the time insisted that you can't have an opinion on abolition unless you were a slave owner. Otherwise, you just don't know what you're talking about!
 
It was once legal to own slaves, too. I'm sure slave owners were just following the law of the land.

PS- much how the abortion lobby today insists that you can't have an opinion on abortion unless you're a (biological) woman, slave owners at the time insisted that you can't have an opinion on abolition unless you were a slave owner. Otherwise, you just don't know what you're talking about!
You are actually comparing today's women to early American slave owners??? wow.
 
You are actually comparing today's women to early American slave owners??? wow.
I guess it makes sense in some strange way. Women are portrayed as the villains by the Right in this debate just like slave owners back in the day.
 
You are actually comparing today's women to early American slave owners??? wow.

Only an imbecile would conclude this from the comparison drawn.

No, I am comparing today's mass slaughter of unborn children to slavery.

And the false narrative driven by the lobbies, both now for abortion and then for slavery, that only "certain" people can have an opinion on the subject matter.
 
Only an imbecile would conclude this from the comparison drawn.
Only an imbecile would compare legalized SLAVERY back in the day to Roe v. Wade.
And the false narrative driven by the lobbies, both now for abortion and then for slavery, that only "certain" people can have an opinion on the subject matter.
Yeah boy, this is all about only "certain" people (i.e. poor pregnant women) having a stake in the issue. White males like you (who run your Church by the way) should be making this all-important decision for them.
 
Only an imbecile would compare legalized SLAVERY back in the day to Roe v. Wade.

Yeah boy, this is all about only "certain" people (i.e. poor pregnant women) having a stake in the issue. White males like you (who run your Church by the way) should be making this all-important decision for them.



Don't sweat it. California is willing to buck the federal government and ship in women so they can get abortions. Maybe they can stay there and make a habit out of it in between the shootings and coordinated smash and grab robberies. You should probably move there.
 
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT