The Ala law is just as bad as the new NY law is. The nuts are ruling the roost in both parties.
Alabama Abortion Bill
- Thread starter bqknight
- Start date
All this response does is tell me that you have no way of possibly answering my questions since your statements are so ridiculous and fly in the face of science and basic facts of life.
You spent all these words just dodging questions that your very own comments created.
Given that your dumb little "whataboutism" questions aren't even relevant if these 2 questions can't be answered first, here you go again. Answer when ready.
- If life doesn't begin at conception, what is conception? What is in the act of being created, hence the word "conception", if it's not life?
- You stated that a baby in the womb at 37 weeks is not proof of life. You said it's not even life. What is it then? Please define what you intend to call a child in the womb at 37 weeks if it's really not "life".
this country is incredibly divided right now and only the extremes get the media attention.
Yeah, questions about how you would actually govern if the US implements your heavy-handed fundamentalist beliefs are SO dumb.
There is a Grand Canyon-wide difference between the life we see all around us and conscious life. It's what separates humans from the animal and plant world. What connects us to God is our soul. Without it, we are just a 'meat suit.' Our awareness of ourselves in the world and our consciousness is what makes us special and gives our lives purpose.
Our sacred soul enters our body at the magic moment of birth. It is that moment when the soul enters the body and begins to cry from the anguish of being away from the spirit world. It is why humans have always celebrated the anniversary of the extraordinary day we entered this world as a conscious being.
The awkward truth for Conservative Christians is that the Bible clearly tells them this, yet they refuse to accept it because it doesn't support their agenda.
Genesis 2: 7 - And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
How much clearer can the Bible be?
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Are you suggesting that Adam was birthed in the conventional sense and that he exited a womb, and at that moment he became a living soul? Saying "how much clearer can the bible be" while using as evidence literally the only time in human history where a person wasn't brought forth from the body of another is highly suspect. It would be like saying "we all go to heaven in a chariot of fire without our body dying because look at Elijah". How much clearer can the bible be on ascension?Yeah, questions about how you would actually govern if the US implements your heavy-handed fundamentalist beliefs are SO dumb.
There is a Grand Canyon-wide difference between the life we see all around us and conscious life. It's what separates humans from the animal and plant world. What connects us to God is our soul. Without it, we are just a 'meat suit.' Our awareness of ourselves in the world and our consciousness is what makes us special and gives our lives purpose.
Our sacred soul enters our body at the magic moment of birth. It is that moment when the soul enters the body and begins to cry from the anguish of being away from the spirit world. It is why humans have always celebrated the anniversary of the extraordinary day we entered this world as a conscious being.
The awkward truth for Conservative Christians is that the Bible clearly tells them this, yet they refuse to accept it because it doesn't support their agenda.
Genesis 2: 7 - And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
How much clearer can the Bible be?
What's highly suspect is for you to argue that my Christian beliefs should be overridden by yours.
The spirit enters the body at that magic moment when the first breath of life is taken. If that breath of life doesn't take place, what then? Did the soul hang out in the womb for nine months and then go away? When it comes to 'highly suspect' beliefs, that sounds like one to me.
Agreed. Extremism is the new norm.
We have the left asserting that Roe v. Wade gives everyone a choice once the baby is out of the womb.
And the right is now countering it with 8-12 week bans on heartbeat.
The US media whores itself out for advertising dollars.
Although NPR and PBS are the exemption, and have other factors -- much to the left's dislike of the truth at times, as much as the right's.
Baloney. Abortion has been legal since 1973.
The only extremists in this particular discussion are the radical anti-abortion crowd who have attempted to sway their minority view by resorting to giving fetuses living, breathing 'baby status.' But when it comes time to explain exactly how the government would handle these "murders" if they succeed in overturning the law of the land, they suddenly disappear.
The same people who love saying big government needs to stay the hell out of their lives are suddenly johnny-on-the-spot when it comes to telling young, unwed mothers what they need to do even though their views are based on a narrowly applied religious viewpoint. News flash: we are not a theocracy.
If we had a government where anti-abortion preachers got to decide how everyone else lives their lives based on their particular religious beliefs, that's the very definition of a theocracy.
The dude is borderline senile and he lives in a comic book world.
I think he fantasizes that he's the main character of "V for Vendetta".
In most states if a person kills a Pregnant Woman they are charged with 2 murders. The mother and the baby.
Yeah, questions about how you would actually govern if the US implements your heavy-handed fundamentalist beliefs are SO dumb.
There is a Grand Canyon-wide difference between the life we see all around us and conscious life. It's what separates humans from the animal and plant world. What connects us to God is our soul. Without it, we are just a 'meat suit.' Our awareness of ourselves in the world and our consciousness is what makes us special and gives our lives purpose.
Our sacred soul enters our body at the magic moment of birth. It is that moment when the soul enters the body and begins to cry from the anguish of being away from the spirit world. It is why humans have always celebrated the anniversary of the extraordinary day we entered this world as a conscious being.
The awkward truth for Conservative Christians is that the Bible clearly tells them this, yet they refuse to accept it because it doesn't support their agenda.
Genesis 2: 7 - And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
How much clearer can the Bible be?
Dude, your continued usage of the Bible to justify abortion is really old at this point, but it remains totally disgusting. Did you seriously just reference the Creation Story to make the claim that a 37 week old child in the womb is not life?
Do you really think that human life begins for humans in 2019 as Adam was created by God?
The more you post, the more I think you're just another faux-Christian who thinks that a few reads of Christianity reference books is all you need to mask a religious background behind a left wing radical agenda.
And nothing you just wrote answered my questions, AGAIN.
Shuck calls 85 a fundamentalist while at the same time holding up a literal interpretation of the creation of man as being crystal clear on when life actually begins.
That's why I raised the point above. I can't tell if he REALLY believes that life isn't life unless someone is created exactly as Adam was as described in the Bible, or (more likely), he simply backed himself into a corner with another idiotic comment and he's just throwing shit on the wall to see if anything sticks.
shookster is in his mid 60s and argues with people he doesnt know about politics on the internet. theres nothing wrong with that except he acts like a 15yr old fortnite player more often than not. not to mention he has a serious case of tds. mental health is a real issue for this country.
It has to be a way to rationalize being a pro abortion Christian. If life begins at first breath then it's easy. If life begins at conception or at any point in between it gets fuking messy. Most people don't like messy, even if it means being dishonest about what they believe in their heart of hearts.
shookster has a long track record of not being able to admit when he is wrong.
calling fab a racist
covington kids
russian collusion
claiming trump nefariously moved money from a dept to a golfing buddy, only to find out it was for emergency medical for kids.
A taste of your own medicine doesn't go down well, I see.
No sh*t Sherlock. Maybe that explains why no one here has made any attempt to answer questions about how we handle 'baby murderers' if Roe v Wade is overturned.
lol I like how you casually tried to side step your insistence that we should define life on the basis of how God created Adam in the Bible.
I guess your final answer really is that a 37 week old baby in the womb is "lifeless" since God didn't blow life into its' nostrils yet or whatever. Good to know you're approaching my questions with a level head and rational way of thinking*
So your faith is superior my faith? Seems to me that's the kind of thinking that's caused countless wars over the centuries.
So the notion that our human soul enters our body with our first breath of air...is crazy? Really?
We're all supposed to believe that the soul enters the fetus at the magic moment of conception and hangs around for nine months? THAT's the hill you want to plant your Pro-life Flag on???
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im surprised he cant accept 37 weeks. a baby is 100% full term at that point. the only thing that happens after that is weight and growth. all the organs are fully formed. the baby is fully capable of surviving on their own without the mother. surly that is something he could get behind.
A human body is just a meat suit until it's blessed with God's spirit, the human soul. Sorry guys, but that doesn't happen until birth.
![[roll]](http://l.yimg.com/j/assets/img/emoticons/classic/roll.r191677.gif "roll [roll]")
Me questioning his usage of Adam and Eve to define whether a 37 week old baby is alive or not in 2019 is somehow the reason why we've had wars over the centuries.
omg. This is too good. This guy has gone full on religious zealot to somehow prove that the Bible is sanctioning abortion.
In one breath you rail against a theocracy and the notion of fundamentalists cramming religion down your throat by protecting a fully formed human baby complete with a brain and then in the next breath you use fundamental theology to claim life doesn't begin until breath of fresh air.
Be pro-choice, I am (with limitations). But your mental gymnastics are insane. Are people allowed to have their faith influence their beliefs and how they vote or not?
Your questions on how we deal with mother murderers in the event of Roe v Wade being overturned are irrelevant. This is a fundamental question about life. But because you can't come to grips with it you fall back on your faith and end up doing the same shit you rail against anti-abortion fundamentalists for doing. Do you not see your flaw??
You calling the picture below (36 weeks) nothing more than a meat suit is you hiding behind religion and its cowardly. And I'm someone who traditionally would be considered pro choice. You've dug in so far that you're lying to yourself.
..to illustrate how idiotic this whole governing by faith business is.
How did the folks here who argue against abortion on religious grounds respond to me? By attacking my own faith position!
Funny how guys like 85 are quick to discount others' faith-based beliefs yet demand that everyone else agree with his.
This one is cute too. Neither your pic nor mine possesses a soul.
OK cool. So you want to leave faith out of this? Let's stick to science.
At which point do you feel science should consider the meat sack in the womb a living human? Certainly science would agree that it is at a point prior to birth correct?
Yes. As long as God comes down and gives mouth to mouth. Remember, Adam didn't come out of a vagina either.
..to illustrate how idiotic this whole governing by faith business is.
How did the folks here who argue against abortion on religious grounds respond to me? By attacking my own faith position!
Funny how guys like 85 are quick to discount others' faith-based beliefs yet demand that everyone else agree with his.
This one is cute too. Neither your pic nor mine possesses a soul.
This is a sick, disturbing, and twisted post. You are mentally ill dude.
My wife is at 34 weeks right now with our 2nd son. I can feel him moving and kicking every single night. The sonograms reveal a child that looks every bit like a newborn already.
It's good to know that the tissue and skin lining my wife's stomach is the only thing preventing our child from having a soul! I can literally feel my son's head and limbs but he's not really alive! If he were 1 inch on the other side of that tissue and skin then he'd be a real person with God breathing life into him or whatever!
Leave faith out of it?!?!?! Goodness gracious, the believers in 'life begins at conception' are the reason we've had this controversy going on for decades! We've had preme births and ones that have gone long past the expected due dates. But at whatever point they are born, they come a living, breathing baby.
But you want to 'use science' to ascertain when a fetus is viable or not and make that the new "murder vs. abortion" standard?
Yeah, tell us again that you're pro-choice.
Least of which is the fact one is literally alive while the other is dead. Dude is really showing his ass by equating the 2.
https://www.babycenter.com/0_full-term-pregnancy_10407757.bc
by 37 weeks, all the organs are formed. experts argue for 39 weeks because it gives those organs more time to mature. however, if you are looking for a specific point, i think you could say 37 weeks because every day after that helps but isnt technically necessary.
Yeah, just one inch on the other side! Ignore the placenta and umbilical cord and their purposes.
Leave faith out of it?!?!?! Goodness gracious, the believers in 'life begins at conception' are the reason we've had this controversy going on for decades! We've had preme births and ones that have gone long past the expected due dates. But at whatever point they are born, they come a living, breathing baby.
But you want to 'use science' to ascertain when a fetus is viable or not and make that the new "murder vs. abortion" standard?
Yeah, tell us again that you're pro-choice.
I'm going to resort to name calling now because you're being obtuse. You moron, I know this might be difficult for you but it doesn't have to be all or nothing. Im 100% OK with being pro choice with limitations. It's a much better position than your moronic 37 week old is a lifeless meat suit position.
You've put yourself in a corner and can't even have a reasonable conversation of where to draw the abortion line bc of your hardheadedness. Yes I'm willing to have the hard conversation of murder vs abortion of a 37 week old... That's how this works. But that can't even happen when your deranged self can't acknowledge life when it exists.
When the hell did this suddenly become an issue of a 37 WEEK OLD fetus?
Last I checked, I could have sworn that most abortions were legal until the 24th week. It's only recently that we've had State legislatures try to move it up to eight weeks when a fetal heartbeat can be first heard. Still willing to have a 'hard conversation' about murder vs abortion at eight weeks--or earlier?
YOU are the one who replied to my comment about a 37 week old child that it's just a worthless "meat suit" and that it's not REALLY alive. It's a lifeless "thing" no different than a tumor or whatever.
Jesus Christ. You're so mentally ill that you can't even detect when we are responding to things that YOU said.
We seem to have forgotten in this discussion that abortions are legal for the first 21 weeks -- at least until this Alabama law and similar ones.
From a 'science' perspective, is a fetus viable during the first trimester? No
From a 'faith-based' perspective is the fetus a conscious being endowed with a soul from God? That depends on who you ask. A good Catholic or fundamentalist Christian can believe it to be true all the while attacking the beliefs of other Christians, and non-Christians who hold a contrary belief. And let's not forget non-believers.
From a government implementation perspective, how do we craft laws that reflect either viewpoint? We have lived under the pro-choice model for nearly 50 years. We know how that works. Frankly the majority of abortions take place in the first 8 weeks and all but a small minority take place within 20 weeks.
If we change the law of the land and enforce the notion that life begins at conception, how are we going to legislate it? We don't know. I'm told here that the question is 'irrelevant.' But if you listen to Alabama and the rash of other like-minded State legislatures, there are no exceptions for rape and incest. Hey, you've got to give them credit, they're at least implementing what they really believe. Screw the circumstances, women are made to be human incubators because life begins at conception.
Geez, I wonder why this debate has been going on for the last 50 years!
From a 'science' perspective, is a fetus viable during the first trimester? No
From a 'faith-based' perspective is the fetus a conscious being endowed with a soul from God? That depends on who you ask. A good Catholic or fundamentalist Christian can believe it to be true all the while attacking the beliefs of other Christians, and non-Christians who hold a contrary belief. And let's not forget non-believers.
From a government implementation perspective, how do we craft laws that reflect either viewpoint? We have lived under the pro-choice model for nearly 50 years. We know how that works. Frankly the majority of abortions take place in the first 8 weeks and all but a small minority take place within 20 weeks.
If we change the law of the land and enforce the notion that life begins at conception, how are we going to legislate it? We don't know. I'm told here that the question is 'irrelevant.' But if you listen to Alabama and the rash of other like-minded State legislatures, there are no exceptions for rape and incest. Hey, you've got to give them credit, they're at least implementing what they really believe. Screw the circumstances, women are made to be human incubators because life begins at conception.
Geez, I wonder why this debate has been going on for the last 50 years!
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