Boise St.

[BH Knights 37]

I keep reading where all the experts advise UCF to follow the Boise St. scheduling strategy. According to this website here is a link to every opponent Boise St. has played since moving to D1-A. Show me why this is the example and model?

Nothing against Boise St., but I'm not sure "the experts" really know what they are talking about.

FYI - this list INCLUDES bowl games played from 1996 to present (Boise St. made move to D-1 in 1996).

This website shows Boise St. playing 21 "P5" opponents since 1996.

This website shows UCF playing 32 "P5" opponents since 1996.

P5 teams they have played 1 time:

Neutral:

Arizona - 2014 Fiesta Bowl
Baylor - 2016 Cactus Bowl
Boston College - 2005 MPC Computers Bowl
Iowa St. - 2002 Humanitarian Bowl
Ole Miss - 2014 in Georgia Dome
Oklahoma - 2006 Fiesta Bowl
Virginia Tech - 2010 in Landover, MD

Home:


Away:

Michigan St.
Oklahoma St.
S. Carolina
UCLA
Wisonsin

P5 teams they have played 2 times:

Arizona St.(1 Neutral, 1 @ ASU)
Arkansas (1 @ Arkansas, 1 Neutral),
Georgia (1 @ UGA, 1 Neutral),
Louisville (2 Neutral),
Virginia (1 @ Boise, 1 @ UVA)

P5 teams they have played 3 times or more:

Oregon (1 @ Boise, 1 @ Oregon, 1 Neutral),
Oregon St. (3 times @ Boise, 3 times @ OSU, 1 time Neutral),
Washington (1 time at Boise, 2 times @ Wash, 1 time Neutral) ,
Washington St. (3 times @ Boise, 3 times @ WSU))

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/schools/boise-state/head-to-head.html

 

[KISA]

I agree it got Boise St nowhere near a national championship. I remember them playing and bearing VT as well. I don't see them listed. I remember them playing lots of neutral site games as well.

 

[KISA]

2010 #3 Boise St beats #10 VT at a neutral site Fed Ex field not really neutral as many more VT fans were there

 

[Cubs79]

2010 #3 Boise St beats #10 VT at a neutral site Fed Ex field not really neutral as many more VT fans were there

That "might" have been the year they would have gotten into the title game, but they lost to Nevada and didnt win their conference.

 

[hemightbejeremy]

Boise has played less P5 opponents per year than UCF, has had a weaker strength of schedule and has 0 national championships.

 

[Cubs79]

Boise has played less P5 opponents per year than UCF, has had a weaker strength of schedule and has 0 national championships.

That was always my issue with Boise. They were a team who could certainly play with anyone and even win on any given day. But, they would typically play one top tier team out of the gate (where they had a month to prepare) and then their schedule was just not good for the most part. It is much for difficult to win against quality competition week in and week out, than it is win one game to begin the season.

This is why, UCF needs to take the games they can get. If Florida offers a 2 for 1, take it. And then have an ACC team, Big 12 team, or whoever, on the schedule and try to have 2-3 quality non conference games.

 

[Poolside Knight]

the few times I’ve watched Boise this season they looked slow and not nearly as athletic as UCF

 

[Cubs79]

the few times I’ve watched Boise this season they looked slow and not nearly as athletic as UCF

I think people are talking about the Kellen Moore and Chris Peterson years. Boise is still a good program, but certainly not as good as they were in the Kellen Moore years.

 

[KISA]

Cubs the Florida deal is not a good deal for UCF. They stated they want a deal like they gave USF. They want our supposed home game at the Citrus Bowl dump and they want access to 50% of the tickets and part of the ticket sale money. UCF would not make much money after Florida Citrus Sports got their cut. On the other hand UF home game would be sold out and they make out like a bandit financially. We countered their offer with 1 game at UF 1 game at UCF spectrum stadium and 1 neutral site game. Boise St played a lot of neutral site games and UCF should do the same

 

[Cubs79]

Cubs the Florida deal is not a good deal for UCF. They stated they want a deal like they gave USF. They want our supposed home game at the Citrus Bowl dump and they want access to 50% of the tickets and part of the ticket sale money. UCF would not make much money after Florida Citrus Sports got their cut. On the other hand UF home game would be sold out and they make out like a bandit financially. We countered their offer with 1 game at UF 1 game at UCF spectrum stadium and 1 neutral site game. Boise St played a lot of neutral site games and UCF should do the same

I didnt think there was any kind of actual offer. I thought Strickland was just responding to a question about White and saying they would be open to a 2 for 1 or neutral site. When this whole story game out 3 days ago it said they had not actually spoken about it.

 

[anon_ki59ERik4csguoSd]

That was always my issue with Boise. They were a team who could certainly play with anyone and even win on any given day. But, they would typically play one top tier team out of the gate (where they had a month to prepare) and then their schedule was just not good for the most part. It is much for difficult to win against quality competition week in and week out, than it is win one game to begin the season.

This is why, UCF needs to take the games they can get. If Florida offers a 2 for 1, take it. And then have an ACC team, Big 12 team, or whoever, on the schedule and try to have 2-3 quality non conference games.

Careful, our haters use this same type of argument against us.

 

[KISA]

I am not opposed to playing UF but I want it to be on a level playing field. Home field advantage at UF is worth at least 7 points in their favor. If they want a neutral site game I am all for it in Tampa, Orlando, Miami,, Jacksonville etc. 2 games at the Swamp and 1 neutral field deal like they gave USF is not a fair deal. USF is in a rent a stadium so they need pay for play games. UCF does not need pay for play games. When UCF is sold out you are talking about 2 to 2.5 million in revenue from ticket sales,, parking and concessions per game. I am sure ESPN GameDay brought in even more money to UCF.

 

[Cubs79]

Careful, our haters use this same type of argument against us.

But it is a reasonable argument. It is more more difficult to win big games week in and week out than 1 big game at the beginning of the season. As the season goes on you have depth factors that come into play, you have more film on teams which comes into play, etc etc.

For instance, if you look at Tennessee's schedule this year. They obviously werent a good team, but lets pretend for the sake of argument they went into the season ranked in the top 10 with national title hopes. They had a stretch where they played UF, UGA, Auburn, and Alabama all in a row. Having to go through that type of stretch to be able to compete for a national title, is completely different than Boise St beating VT in the opening week, and then playing Wyoming, and New Mexico, etc etc the rest of the year.

 

[Cubs79]

I am not opposed to playing UF but I want it to be on a level playing field. Home field advantage at UF is worth at least 7 points in their favor. If they want a neutral site game I am all for it in Tampa, Orlando, Miami,, Jacksonville etc. 2 games at the Swamp and 1 neutral field deal like they gave USF is not a fair deal. USF is in a rent a stadium so they need pay for play games. UCF does not need pay for play games. When UCF is sold out you are talking about 2 to 2.5 million in revenue from ticket sales,, parking and concessions per game. I am sure ESPN GameDay brought in even more money to UCF.

I Dont know enough about UCF's game day financials to really get into that.. But, I dont see why something couldnt be worked out at the Citrus Bowl to where UCF did well financially. It is a larger stadium, which obviously means more ticket sales.

 

[Knight_Light]

But it is a reasonable argument. It is more more difficult to win big games week in and week out than 1 big game at the beginning of the season. As the season goes on you have depth factors that come into play, you have more film on teams which comes into play, etc etc.

For instance, if you look at Tennessee's schedule this year. They obviously werent a good team, but lets pretend for the sake of argument they went into the season ranked in the top 10 with national title hopes. They had a stretch where they played UF, UGA, Auburn, and Alabama all in a row. Having to go through that type of stretch to be able to compete for a national title, is completely different than Boise St beating VT in the opening week, and then playing Wyoming, and New Mexico, etc etc the rest of the year.

Auburn was BAD this year (3-5 in conf play), UF wasn't that good (got blown out at HOME by Mizzou then lost to UK at home for first time in 35-40 yrs...and UGA got dominated by LSU.

 

[Cubs79]

Auburn was BAD this year (3-5 in conf play), UF wasn't that good (got blown out at HOME by Mizzou then lost to UK at home for first time in 35-40 yrs...and UGA got dominated by LSU.

That's is a very tough stretch and very few teams in the country had that type stretch of games. I realize they arent all great, but playing those 4 games back to back isn't easy. That's 1 playoff team and 2 others that are playing in new years 6 bowls.

But bringing this up kind of makes my point. UGA lost 1 game on the road in one of the toughest venues in the country, on an off day to a tough team, and you write it off UGA as not being a significant game.

Florida lost to UK, who has a great RB and stout defense with arguably the best defensive player in the country, and you consider it a bad loss. They lose to Missouri who has a QB who will likely be taken in the first round (possibly in the top 10 if not higher), and you think that is a bad loss.

And BTW, Missouri beat Memphis 65-33. So if losing to Missouri means Florida wasnt that good, then it kind of takes away from significant wins UCF had. ANd I am not saying it does, I think Memphis is a quality team, but it does kind of put Missouri into context, that they are better than you are giving them creditfor.

To me, you are highlighting just how tough it is to go unbeaten in the SEC. Losing to teams who will end up with numerous draft picks, 1st round picks, etc, is going to happen on occasion. You have to be at your best on an almost weekly basis because any off day can result in a loss.

 

[KISA]

RB Henderson for Memphis was hurt and did not play against Missouri or was hurt early and did not play much against Missouri. #2 in rushing RB in the country so that hurt Memphis in that game. They probably would not of won but the score would of been closer.

 

[KISA]

Cubs keep in mind if UCF was in the SEC playing a tougher schedule we would also have an SEC. recruiting tag which equals more depth and better players and we would also get more money from the SEC. TV contract where every SEC teams gets 40 to 50 million per year. UCF gets 2 million per year in TV money. We could do a lot with that money like hire the best coaches and make stadium and facilities upgrades. So you are comparing apples to oranges.

 

[hemightbejeremy]

But it is a reasonable argument. It is more more difficult to win big games week in and week out than 1 big game at the beginning of the season. As the season goes on you have depth factors that come into play, you have more film on teams which comes into play, etc etc.

For instance, if you look at Tennessee's schedule this year. They obviously werent a good team, but lets pretend for the sake of argument they went into the season ranked in the top 10 with national title hopes. They had a stretch where they played UF, UGA, Auburn, and Alabama all in a row. Having to go through that type of stretch to be able to compete for a national title, is completely different than Boise St beating VT in the opening week, and then playing Wyoming, and New Mexico, etc etc the rest of the year.

Why don’t you look at Ole Miss and tell me what kind of a week in week out gauntlet they faced. Look at Missouri’s schedule in 2017. UCF faced teams a combined 25-8 the last 3 games of the year. Ole Miss faced no such stretch. People make hypotheticals about UCF by bringing up the hardest schedules in the country, meanwhile Alabama and Ohio State don’t play schedules that rank in the top 50. Why can’t UCF hypothetical get one of those schedules since it’s all imaginary anyway?

 

[Mikesi]

RB Henderson for Memphis was hurt and did not play against Missouri or was hurt early and did not play much against Missouri. #2 in rushing RB in the country so that hurt Memphis in that game. They probably would not of won but the score would of been closer.

Absolutely. Also, what if it was a home game and not right after playing us?

 

[HammerB08]

To me, you are highlighting just how tough it is to go unbeaten in the SEC. Losing to teams who will end up with numerous draft picks, 1st round picks, etc, is going to happen on occasion. You have to be at your best on an almost weekly basis because any off day can result in a loss.

The nice thing is that you don't have to go unbeaten in the SEC. SEC teams can lose a game and still go to the playoff. They can lose 3 games and still go to a NY6 game. They can lose 4 games and still play in a very good bowl game. Which is why it's ridiculous to say "UCF wouldn't be undefeated if they played in the SEC" as an argument for why UCF doesn't belong in the same conversation. They could take 3 mulligans in the SEC and be ranked basically exactly where they are now.

 

[SCKnight]

That was always my issue with Boise. They were a team who could certainly play with anyone and even win on any given day. But, they would typically play one top tier team out of the gate (where they had a month to prepare) and then their schedule was just not good for the most part. It is much for difficult to win against quality competition week in and week out, than it is win one game to begin the season.

This is why, UCF needs to take the games they can get. If Florida offers a 2 for 1, take it. And then have an ACC team, Big 12 team, or whoever, on the schedule and try to have 2-3 quality non conference games.

ummm no

 

[OtterKnight]

Which is why it's ridiculous to say "UCF wouldn't be undefeated if they played in the SEC" as an argument for why UCF doesn't belong in the same conversation. They could take 3 mulligans in the SEC and be ranked basically exactly where they are now.

It's 100% exactly this. We might not be undefeated in the SEC, but we wouldn't have to be.

 

[Knight Strength]

Some good conversation going on in here. Thanks men.

 

[Cubs79]

The nice thing is that you don't have to go unbeaten in the SEC. SEC teams can lose a game and still go to the playoff. They can lose 3 games and still go to a NY6 game. They can lose 4 games and still play in a very good bowl game. Which is why it's ridiculous to say "UCF wouldn't be undefeated if they played in the SEC" as an argument for why UCF doesn't belong in the same conversation. They could take 3 mulligans in the SEC and be ranked basically exactly where they are now.

I didn't say anything about UCF being undefeated or not in the SEC. But you cant just look at losses. Wins also matter. The system we have is that only 4 teams get in the playoff. You have to look at quality wins as much, if not more then losses.

 

[Cubs79]

Why don’t you look at Ole Miss and tell me what kind of a week in week out gauntlet they faced. Look at Missouri’s schedule in 2017. UCF faced teams a combined 25-8 the last 3 games of the year. Ole Miss faced no such stretch. People make hypotheticals about UCF by bringing up the hardest schedules in the country, meanwhile Alabama and Ohio State don’t play schedules that rank in the top 50. Why can’t UCF hypothetical get one of those schedules since it’s all imaginary anyway?

But no one is arguing Ole Miss should be in the any type of national title contention. But Ole Miss did play Bama and LSU, plus a few other ranked teams.

 

[SCKnight]

I didn't say anything about UCF being undefeated or not in the SEC. But you cant just look at losses. Wins also matter. The system we have is that only 4 teams get in the playoff. You have to look at quality wins as much, if not more then losses.

The system we have is stupid. It is a beauty contest designed to protect the blue bloods. That is not a rant, it a proven fact. SOS is a red herring. No matter what UCF or any G5 does their conference schedule will pull them down in the eyes of the committee. As has been proven SEC and B10 teams get 2 mulligans and still are ranked above us, 25-0. Let that sink in. 25-0 and the best we can do is #8? Really? How many times do you think a G5 team will actually go undefeated? Then add in the fact that they did it twice in a row. Then add how many times they will start the season already ranked? Then add to that the chance that that year the P5 teams they are able to schedule are actually good. Then add in the fact that Every p5 team will need to be 2 loss teams. You tell me the odds of that happening. Scheduling P5 teams is not important enough for UCF to forego growing its fanbase at home. We are not getting in under the current system. Period. Everything you hear about scheduling tougher teams is a dodge. UCF needs to do what is right for UCF

 

[Cubs79]

The system we have is stupid. It is a beauty contest designed to protect the blue bloods. That is not a rant, it a proven fact. SOS is a red herring. No matter what UCF or any G5 does their conference schedule will pull them down in the eyes of the committee. As has been proven SEC and B10 teams get 2 mulligans and still are ranked above us, 25-0. Let that sink in. 25-0 and the best we can do is #8? Really? How many times do you think a G5 team will actually go undefeated? Then add in the fact that they did it twice in a row. Then add how many times they will start the season already ranked? Then add to that the chance that that year the P5 teams they are able to schedule are actually good. Then add in the fact that Every p5 team will need to be 2 loss teams. You tell me the odds of that happening. Scheduling P5 teams is not important enough for UCF to forego growing its fanbase at home. We are not getting in under the current system. Period. Everything you hear about scheduling tougher teams is a dodge. UCF needs to do what is right for UCF

The system might be stupid, but until it changes, you have to do business as business is being done (or just accept that a New Years six bowl might be the ceiling, which isn't necessarily a bad thing). And by all means, UCF can approach it however they wish, I never implied otherwise.

 

[SCKnight]

The system might be stupid, but until it changes, you have to do business as business is being done (or just accept that a New Years six bowl might be the ceiling, which isn't necessarily a bad thing). And by all means, UCF can approach it however they wish, I never implied otherwise.

No, you don't understand. We are NOT getting into the CPI in the current system. It is so improbable as to be be impossible. That does not mean we have to accept it. You continue the narrative and continue to grow your fan base at home. UCF's biggest asset is its large student body. We cannot compromise at the expense of that fan base because that is where our investment needs to go. Trying to chase the will-o-wisp that is the CPI and the talking heads and the mystery that is SOS is a trap and detracts from UCF's best interests. I believe DW understands this. We are better off with a 1-1 against Pitt and UNC then we are with a 2-1 against UF. USF is netting a grand total of $500,000 ($750,000 total for the 2 games in the swamp less the $250,000 they are paying UF to come to RJS) plus whatever ticket sales they get from the one game in RJS (they don't get concessions or parking). For that they are giving up 2 an additional home game. In terms of UCF we get 2 million a home game. They get three shots at the Gators I suppose but what will that get them if they win? Not entrance in the CPI that is for sure.

 

[KnightVision82]

The Boise St. and Fresno discussion by the talking heads is a distraction tactic. It's like the biblical story of working for the bride and when you do what they say, another task is required to have her hand.

Last year they said if we go undefeated again we get into the CFP and yet here we are again.

Fix the NIT and make it a real CFP where the issue (whose got the best team) is solved on the field. P5 Champions, undefeated Div. I teams and highest ranked teams fill the brackets!

 

[Cubs79]

No, you don't understand. We are NOT getting into the CPI in the current system. It is so improbable as to be be impossible. That does not mean we have to accept it. You continue the narrative and continue to grow your fan base at home. UCF's biggest asset is its large student body. We cannot compromise at the expense of that fan base because that is where our investment needs to go. Trying to chase the will-o-wisp that is the CPI and the talking heads and the mystery that is SOS is a trap and detracts from UCF's best interests. I believe DW understands this. We are better off with a 1-1 against Pitt and UNC then we are with a 2-1 against UF. USF is netting a grand total of $500,000 ($750,000 total for the 2 games in the swamp less the $250,000 they are paying UF to come to RJS) plus whatever ticket sales they get from the one game in RJS (they don't get concessions or parking). For that they are giving up 2 an additional home game. In terms of UCF we get 2 million a home game. They get three shots at the Gators I suppose but what will that get them if they win? Not entrance in the CPI that is for sure.

I absolutely understand. These arguments aren't new. College football has had these types of controversies time and time again.

All of these deals are negotiated. Just because USF got a certain deal doesn't mean you guys would. I would certainly think you would have more leverage than USF and I would think there would be more TV interest in that game. But for a deal to be negotiated there has to obviously be some discussion with the powers at be and if WHite is just taking a hardline that it is 1-1 or nothing, then nothing will likely get done.

But look, I honestly don't care what you guys do. I would expect UCF (as with any program) to do what is best for them. My point generally speaking in regards to this, is that some of you guys don't want to give Florida the benefit of the doubt in that regard. Just as you guys should do what is best for you, they should do what is best for them. And if nothing gets worked out then it doesn't. Both UF and UCF and college football in general will continue whether they play each other or not.

 

[Cubs79]

The Boise St. and Fresno discussion by the talking heads is a distraction tactic. It's like the biblical story of working for the bride and when you do what they say, another task is required to have her hand.

Last year they said if we go undefeated again we get into the CFP and yet here we are again.

Fix the NIT and make it a real CFP where the issue (whose got the best team) is solved on the field. P5 Champions, undefeated Div. I teams and highest ranked teams fill the brackets!

Who said that? Who is they?

 

[80'sKnight]

Which P5 conference is Boise in?

After all that they got zip? Oh no, that's right they got Utah into the PAC. No wonder experts want us to follow that path it goes rapidly to Shut-up and Go-away Town. Ain't gonna happen!

 

[80'sKnight]

Who said that? Who is they?

Finebaum or whatever the SEC butt-sucker's name is, had said something close to that.

 

[Cubs79]

Which P5 conference is Boise in?

After all that they got zip? Oh no, that's right they got Utah into the PAC. No wonder experts want us to follow that path it goes rapidly to Shut-up and Go-away Town. Ain't gonna happen!

It doesn't go to "shut up and go away town" if they win. And Utah has been pretty competitive in the Pac 12.

 

[hemightbejeremy]

But no one is arguing Ole Miss should be in the any type of national title contention. But Ole Miss did play Bama and LSU, plus a few other ranked teams.

I was addressing your week in and week out top teams assertion. If ole miss was undefeated they would be in title contention. They would be ranked #1. They played Texas tech, Alabama, LSU and sprinkled in were cupcakes like SIU, Kent state, and ULM. Your argument that teams can get up for a big game but can’t do it week to week falls flat when you look at a lot of the P5 schedules who face at most 2 or 3 ranked teams and not back to back. You pulled one example of a difficult stretch for one team and tout that as the standard, when in fact it is the exception.

 

[firm_bizzle]

Cubs the Florida deal is not a good deal for UCF. They stated they want a deal like they gave USF. They want our supposed home game at the Citrus Bowl dump and they want access to 50% of the tickets and part of the ticket sale money. UCF would not make much money after Florida Citrus Sports got their cut. On the other hand UF home game would be sold out and they make out like a bandit financially. We countered their offer with 1 game at UF 1 game at UCF spectrum stadium and 1 neutral site game. Boise St played a lot of neutral site games and UCF should do the same

Why can't we get a preseason kick off game in Atlanta?

 

[hemightbejeremy]

Florida doesn’t play non conference road games where they will not have majority of the fans. That’s why they scheduled USF 2-1. They don’t mind going to a stadium with 80k seats for a team that draws less than 30k butts in seats because gator fans will make it a home game. They also are probably getting 50% of the ticket sales revenue for that game. UF won’t come to Spectrum stadium where it will be 43k knight fans and 2k gator fans. It’s against their scheduling philosophy. Which is fine. There have been plenty of teams that will do a true 1-1 with UCF. Florida hasn’t done a true 1-1 with any team, even P5 schools other than the mandated series with FSU since 1991.

 

[Cubs79]

Why can't we get a preseason kick off game in Atlanta?

At some point you might be able to. What you guys also have to realize is that you have had 2 great seasons and these games are scheduled in advance. They already have Oregon vs UGA scheduled for 2022 and UGA vs Clemson in 2024. It doesn't appear 2023 is set yet but that would be the earliest chance for that game it appears.

 

[Cubs79]

I was addressing your week in and week out top teams assertion. If ole miss was undefeated they would be in title contention. They would be ranked #1. They played Texas tech, Alabama, LSU and sprinkled in were cupcakes like SIU, Kent state, and ULM. Your argument that teams can get up for a big game but can’t do it week to week falls flat when you look at a lot of the P5 schedules who face at most 2 or 3 ranked teams and not back to back. You pulled one example of a difficult stretch for one team and tout that as the standard, when in fact it is the exception.

Of course they would be ranked #1 if they were undefeated. They would have beaten Alabama, LSU, Miss St, A&M, Auburn, and UGA. Not to mention Vandy and SC are halfway decent teams. You don't think that would deserve to be the top ranked team in the nation if that had happened? Do you think UCF schedule was better than that? I am honestly asking.