Nm

[sk8knight]

You're a smart and well read dude. I have no doubts about the accuracy of your data or your ability to properly assess that data and assign risk. In fact, I think out of anyone on this board (myself included) I'd pick you to be the guy to do a technical deep dive on an a brand new topic and report back. I appreciated a post you made the other day about vaccines and kids (I have two kids under 12 so that's something I'm going to need to be paying attention to soon).

But I'm not sure how well you "get" people who don't think like you do. You have to analyze this from the least common denominator on up. You are perfectly fit to do a deep dive and come to your own conclusion - but for a huge chunk of the population - a "deep dive" will invariably result in them drawing incorrect conclusions based on conspiracy theories, anecdotal evidence, and the meme their aunt just shared on FB.

Encouraging people to "do their own research" is basically telling society to manage public health via memes. We stand no chance. So for the majority of the public, we are FAR better off simply recognizing authority (CDC) when it comes to public health advice - despite the flaws. Undermining that authority can only create worse outcomes. If you convince the average person the CDC isn't trustworthy, they aren't going to JAMA to read studies - they're going to rely on anecdotes and stupid shit they find on the internet which can only be worse.

This has nothing to do with blind faith in government, authority, or forcing people to conform. It's simply a pragmatic assessment of human behavior - not an idealistic theory on the role of government. People are born free. But when they make decisions to create a real or perceived harm to society, that freedom can be taken away. We don't throw minority political viewpoints in jail, but the majority will absolutely strip them of "freedom" when they deem it necessary. That's just reality.

"Conform so we can be free? I'm sorry, but ... no. Hell no. Never! Period!"

I wanted to say that this statement seemed a little dramatically idealistic. We all conform to societal standards every single day. I mean, are we truly a free society if we're not allowed to walk around naked in public? But even if you truly believe people should be allowed to walk around naked, would that cause be worth the costs of a civil war? The bottom line is that we're all willing to exchange freedoms we don't value for the ones that we do. In other words - yes - we all absolutely conform in exchange for freedom via a shared set of rules. Conflict occurs through time as those standards change.

Not that this matters one bit, but I appreciate you.

 

[UCFKnightATL]

Long time lurker, but felt this topic was worth chiming in about.

We are all alumni who have respect for our university, first and foremost, as an academic institution. UCF has a medical school where the consensus is overwhelming/unanimous that the benefits of the vaccine outweigh the risks.

I had two people in my family die because they refused to get vaccinated. One was in great shape and under 40.

 

[UCFKnightATL]

You're a smart and well read dude. I have no doubts about the accuracy of your data or your ability to properly assess that data and assign risk. In fact, I think out of anyone on this board (myself included) I'd pick you to be the guy to do a technical deep dive on an a brand new topic and report back. I appreciated a post you made the other day about vaccines and kids (I have two kids under 12 so that's something I'm going to need to be paying attention to soon).

But I'm not sure how well you "get" people who don't think like you do. You have to analyze this from the least common denominator on up. You are perfectly fit to do a deep dive and come to your own conclusion - but for a huge chunk of the population - a "deep dive" will invariably result in them drawing incorrect conclusions based on conspiracy theories, anecdotal evidence, and the meme their aunt just shared on FB.

Encouraging people to "do their own research" is basically telling society to manage public health via memes. We stand no chance. So for the majority of the public, we are FAR better off simply recognizing authority (CDC) when it comes to public health advice - despite the flaws. Undermining that authority can only create worse outcomes. If you convince the average person the CDC isn't trustworthy, they aren't going to JAMA to read studies - they're going to rely on anecdotes and stupid shit they find on the internet which can only be worse.

This has nothing to do with blind faith in government, authority, or forcing people to conform. It's simply a pragmatic assessment of human behavior - not an idealistic theory on the role of government. People are born free. But when they make decisions to create a real or perceived harm to society, that freedom can be taken away. We don't throw minority political viewpoints in jail, but the majority will absolutely strip them of "freedom" when they deem it necessary. That's just reality.

"Conform so we can be free? I'm sorry, but ... no. Hell no. Never! Period!"

I wanted to say that this statement seemed a little dramatically idealistic. We all conform to societal standards every single day. I mean, are we truly a free society if we're not allowed to walk around naked in public? But even if you truly believe people should be allowed to walk around naked, would that cause be worth the costs of a civil war? The bottom line is that we're all willing to exchange freedoms we don't value for the ones that we do. In other words - yes - we all absolutely conform in exchange for freedom via a shared set of rules. Conflict occurs through time as those standards change.

This is an incredible response, sir.

 

[Poolside Knight]

an unvaccinated 38 year old frequent poster in the Dungeon died of COVID yet we have idiots on this damn board still arguing against the vaccine

 

[Boosted87]

Even if people disagree with me, I'm just glad people like you can be civil about it. I've been wrong on one big thing, about kids spreading it, and will readily admit when I'm wrong too.

....

It's not hard to spend 4 hours learning the basics of all this. It's out there. People have spent 40+ hours trolling the boards instead of sending those 4 hours. That's what is really sad.

But I'll keep trying to share articles from experts as much as I can.

Cheers! But I disagree with your statement at the end that "it's not hard". Imagine some rando on this board doing a 4 hour deep dive directly related to your job - your expertise - and then trying to tell you how you're wrong about something. Anyone that can do that is either a savant or living on the bad side of the Dunning-Kruger curve. Most people aren't savants - so a huge chunk of the public will be worse off after 4 hours of research on a complex technical subject because they over-estimate how much they really understand and end up with a false sense of confidence.

 

[KnighttimeJoe]

an unvaccinated 38 year old frequent poster in the Dungeon died of COVID yet we have idiots on this damn board still arguing against the vaccine

Who was this?

 

[sk8knight]

Who was this?

spacecoastknight

 

[KnighttimeJoe]

spacecoastknight

WhaaaAtt? That’s horrible.

 

[KnighttimeJoe]

an unvaccinated 38 year old frequent poster in the Dungeon died of COVID yet we have idiots on this damn board still arguing against the vaccine

Just wondering: how do we know he didn’t take it? Was he outspoken about not getting the shot?

 

[hemightbejeremy]

Just wondering: how do we know he didn’t take it? Was he outspoken about not getting the shot?

Yes

 

[KnighttimeJoe]

Yes

Extremely sad. Also, extremely stupid.

 

[Ucfmikes]

an unvaccinated 38 year old frequent poster in the Dungeon died of COVID yet we have idiots on this damn board still arguing against the vaccine

Yes Space Coast Knight passed away from COViD last Sunday. 8 pages in the Dungeon. He trashed me about the vaccine there, but all is forgiven. This Delta variant is no joke. RIP🪦 Get vaccinated

 

[fried-chicken]

Pretty sad that he was so radicalized that he gave away his life.

 

[fried-chicken]

I hope he didn't have a family.

 

[OLearyLastCall]

I hope he didn't have a family.

Pretty sure he had multiple children. RIP.

Get vaccinated, folks.

 

[KnighttimeJoe]

Pretty sure he had multiple children. RIP.

Get vaccinated, folks.

Well, I pray for his family. Sad since this was 100% avoidable.

 

[humanjerk]

Pretty sure he had multiple children. RIP.

Get vaccinated, folks.

Someone said that he was divorced with no kids. I think the kids referenced in the Facebook posts are nieces/nephews

 

[hemightbejeremy]

Pretty sure he had multiple children. RIP.

Get vaccinated, folks.

I don’t think that’s accurate based on the ongoing thread in the dungeon. I read divorced no kids. But he still had family, parents, siblings, friends that are now crushed.

 

[Crazyhole]

Yes Space Coast Knight passed away from COViD last Sunday. 8 pages in the Dungeon. He trashed me about the vaccine there, but all is forgiven. This Delta variant is no joke. RIP🪦 Get vaccinated

Did you talk to him like you do to knightime and ucfbs?

 

[sk8knight]

Well, I pray for his family. Sad since this was 100% avoidable.

Not quite 100% but pretty close to it.

 

[sk8knight]

Did you talk to him like you do to knightime and ucfbs?

Yeah, pretty much the same.

 

[Ucfmikes]

Did you talk to him like you do to knightime and ucfbs?

When he was a jerk to me, yes. Otherwise, no. Pretty standard. Amrite?

 

[Ucfmikes]

Yeah, pretty much the same.

Thanks for answering. Not

 

[Ucfmikes]

Did you talk to him like you do to knightime and ucfbs?

Why is this relevant?

 

[sk8knight]

Thanks for answering. Not

Relax man, I got shit to do and can’t stay on here all day. Honestly, you’re an ass to anyone that doesn’t agree with your point on vaccines. Other than that one topic, you’re pretty middle of the road.

 

[Ucfmikes]

Relax man, I got shit to do and can’t stay on here all day. Honestly, you’re an ass to anyone that doesn’t agree with your point on vaccines. Other than that one topic, you’re pretty middle of the road.

I’m just saying that I could have answered it myself. I’m not going to dodge anything. I’m freaking hiking in Glacier and dodging Grizzly bears

I will continue “to be an ass to anyone that doesn’t agree with my point on vaccines” as long as their reasons for not getting it are illogical. How many more people have to die? The age is dropping now into the 30s and 40’s for unvaccinated people

 

[sk8knight]

I’m just saying that I could have answered it myself. I’m not going to dodge anything. I’m freaking hiking in Glacier and dodging Grizzly bears

I will continue “to be an ass to anyone that doesn’t agree with my point on vaccines” as long as their reasons for not getting it are illogical. How many more people have to die? The age is dropping now into the 30s and 40’s for unvaccinated people

That sounds like an awesome hike. Post pics.

 

[UCFBS]

an unvaccinated 38 year old frequent poster in the Dungeon died of COVID yet we have idiots on this damn board still arguing against the vaccine

No, I'm arguing about the ignorance of what mRNA/Spike Protein vaccines do and do not do!!!

But to your point...

As more and more authorities are now coming out and saying, the continued vaccine hesitancy is partially because the masses lied about everything being known with 6 weeks of trials and that the vaccines would stop the spread.

If that superset of the public, let alone the US Media, could stop lying and we stop giving the anti-vaxxers any valid ammunition, and actually rebuild trust again.

That's why I said the pro-vaxxers have been just as bad as the anti-vaxxers. The masses of people lying have covered up the fact that once we did learn more about mRNA, the short-term complications did end up being rare, and easy to mitigate.

And even though the Spike Protein approach means they are only an IgG-predominate antibody Booster, they are so good and effective in that regard, they help even people who have been diseased by SARS-CoV-2 to better might serious Disease. But they still don't do much to stop the spread, and definitely not as well as natural immunity.

So guilting someone who has been diseased by SARS-CoV-2 for not getting a mRNA vaccine is just ignorance, as they already reduce the spread far better.

Win people over with facts, not 3rd grade pissing contests which, sadly, are actually their own misinformation.

And some here really need stop pissing on the Graves of everyone. This is why I cannot stand typical, berating, pro-vax conservatives as much as progressives as of late.

 

[Ucfmikes]

No, I'm arguing about the ignorance of what mRNA/Spike Protein vaccines do and do not do!!!

But to your point...

As more and more authorities are now coming out and saying, the continued vaccine hesitancy is partially because the masses lied about everything being known with 6 weeks of trials and that the vaccines would stop the spread.

If that superset of the public, let alone the US Media, could stop lying and we stop giving the anti-vaxxers any valid ammunition, and actually rebuild trust again.

That's why I said the pro-vaxxers have been just as bad as the anti-vaxxers. The masses of people lying have covered up the fact that once we did learn more about mRNA, the short-term complications did end up being rare, and easy to mitigate.

And even though the Spike Protein approach means they are only an IgG-predominate antibody Booster, they are so good and effective in that regard, they help even people who have been diseased by SARS-CoV-2 to better might serious Disease. But they still don't do much to stop the spread, and definitely not as well as natural immunity.

So guilting someone who has been diseased by SARS-CoV-2 for not getting a mRNA vaccine is just ignorance, as they already reduce the spread far better.

Win people over with facts, not 3rd grade pissing contests which, sadly, are actually their own misinformation.

And some here really need stop pissing on the Graves of everyone. This is why I cannot stand typical, berating, pro-vax conservatives as much as progressives as of late.

We already know that the vaccines aren’t stopping the spread, but you feel a need to tell us after the fact in a 500-5000 word essay over and over. You really are like a hamster on a wheel

 

[Ucfmikes]

Apparently @UCFWayne is very sick with COVID now and he’s relatively young

 

[KnighttimeJoe]

We already know that the vaccines aren’t stopping the spread, but you feel a need to tell us after the fact in a 500-5000 word essay over and over. You really are like a hamster on a wheel

Why bother? We had a poster die recently and another one in the hospital and this rodent is more concerned with furthering his anti-vax and blabbering nonsense. He doesn't care and it's obvious. Disgusting behavior, if you ask me.

 

[Ucfmikes]

Why bother? We had a poster die recently and another one in the hospital and this rodent is more concerned with furthering his anti-vax and blabbering nonsense. He doesn't care and it's obvious. Disgusting behavior, if you ask me.

Posted like crazy (blabbering.
Lol) in the Dungeon and I just let it go. One guy tried to engage, but got frustrated. @UCFBS continues to use his famous go to “we are all third graders”. He’s not really getting many responses anymore. He’s all over the place and is more concerned about patting himself on the back then giving any useful information. He has none. Totally insecure. Probably was made fun of a lot

 

[UCFBS]

We already know that the vaccines aren’t stopping the spread,

You are utterly so full of BS that it's pathetic. You repeatedly talked up the BS of herd immunity and how vaccines worked at greatly reducing the spread.

Goal posts moved constantly and all.

Just admit it, you gave people flak for being ignorant as f---, constantly and consistently.

but you feel a need to tell us after the fact in a 500-5000 word essay over and over. You really are like a hamster on a wheel

And your number of posts are not only in excess of everyone else, but the resulting scrollbar is just as bad as I am allegedly.

Just admit it, you called me an idiot and are dealing with the fallout of being the actual, village idiot utterly wrong about almost everything you said.

Remember, you not me, we're guilting everyone and pissing all over this board with utter misinformation. Go f--- yourself and the holier than now sh-- you peddle on everyone.

And now you'll say it's just a message board and people are too serious, and yet you still guilt and scream at everyone. Seriously... more and more people are beyond tired of it.

I'm not an expert. I'm not always right. But I admit when I'm mistaken and move on. And you're now playing the 'We already know.'

I call utter BS on that.

 

[Poolside Knight]

Apparently @UCFWayne is very sick with COVID now and he’s relatively young

oh man …pull though ucfWayne 🙏

 

[Ucfmikes]

You are utterly so full of BS that it's pathetic. You repeatedly talked up the BS of herd immunity and how vaccines worked at greatly reducing the spread.

Goal posts moved constantly and all.

Just admit it, you gave people flak for being ignorant as f---, constantly and consistently.


And your number of posts are not only in excess of everyone else, but the resulting scrollbar is just as bad as I am allegedly.

Just admit it, you called me an idiot and are dealing with the fallout of being the actual, village idiot utterly wrong about almost everything you said.

Remember, you not me, we're guilting everyone and pissing all over this board with utter misinformation. Go f--- yourself and the holier than now sh-- you peddle on everyone.

And now you'll say it's just a message board and people are too serious, and yet you still guilt and scream at everyone. Seriously... more and more people are beyond tired of it.

I'm not an expert. I'm not always right. But I admit when I'm mistaken and move on. And you're now playing the 'We already know.'

I call utter BS in that.

70-75% and 94% effective vaccines were never supposed to 100% stop anything, you dipshit.

 

[Ucfmikes]

You are utterly so full of BS that it's pathetic. You repeatedly talked up the BS of herd immunity and how vaccines worked at greatly reducing the spread.

Goal posts moved constantly and all.

Just admit it, you gave people flak for being ignorant as f---, constantly and consistently.


And your number of posts are not only in excess of everyone else, but the resulting scrollbar is just as bad as I am allegedly.

Just admit it, you called me an idiot and are dealing with the fallout of being the actual, village idiot utterly wrong about almost everything you said.

Remember, you not me, we're guilting everyone and pissing all over this board with utter misinformation. Go f--- yourself and the holier than now sh-- you peddle on everyone.

And now you'll say it's just a message board and people are too serious, and yet you still guilt and scream at everyone. Seriously... more and more people are beyond tired of it.

I'm not an expert. I'm not always right. But I admit when I'm mistaken and move on. And you're now playing the 'We already know.'

I call utter BS in that.

Not reducing the spread?? Why don’t you look at the damn COVID case graph that I showed you from pre and post vaccines fatass?

 

[UCFBS]

Not reducing the spread?? Why don’t you look at the damn COVID case graph that I showed you from pre and post vaccines fatass?

One of these days you won't confuse disease with spread.

 

[Ucfmikes]

One of these days you won't confuse disease with spread.

How the heck do you think case numbers rise and fall? There are a lot of factors, but certainly spread has a lot to do with it.

One of these days you will actually learn exactly what herd immunity means

 

[Crazyhole]

How the heck do you think case numbers rise and fall? There are a lot of factors, but certainly spread has a lot to do with it.

One of these days you will actually learn exactly what herd immunity means

If this virus really is mutating as fast as they say it does and becomes vaccine resistant, we'll never reach herd immunity. It seems that we already have with the alpha variant, but little good that's done.

 

[Ucfmikes]

Update: The virus kicked @UCFWayne ’s ass, but he’s going to be OK