Denmark tells Bernie to STFU

[Crazyhole]

https://www.vox.com/2015/10/31/9650030/denmark-prime-minister-bernie-sanders


So far, Sweden, Finland, and Denmark have come out saying that what Bernie is proposing is nothing like what they do. Who hasn't come out against him? Cuba and Venezuela.

What was that Hitler quote? "Its easier to get people to believe a big lie than a small one"?

 

[KnighttimeJoe]

https://www.vox.com/2015/10/31/9650030/denmark-prime-minister-bernie-sanders


So far, Sweden, Finland, and Denmark have come out saying that what Bernie is proposing is nothing like what they do. Who hasn't come out against him? Cuba and Venezuela.

What was that Hitler quote? "Its easier to get people to believe a big lie than a small one"?

That was Joseph Goebbels, but point taken.

 

[Crazyhole]

It's amazing that Bloomberg got booed and attacked for correctly pointing out that "other countries tried going against capitalism and it failed. It's called communism".

 

[NinjaKnight]

Jesus Christ you are nearly at 85 levels of lying. No where in the article does it remotely say what you claimed it said.

 

[Cubs79]

https://www.vox.com/2015/10/31/9650030/denmark-prime-minister-bernie-sanders


So far, Sweden, Finland, and Denmark have come out saying that what Bernie is proposing is nothing like what they do. Who hasn't come out against him? Cuba and Venezuela.

What was that Hitler quote? "Its easier to get people to believe a big lie than a small one"?

Your thread title is pretty misleading to say the last, it is just a semantics disagreement.

In Rasmussen's view, "The Nordic model is an expanded welfare state which provides a high level of security to its citizens, but it is also a successful market economy with much freedom to pursue your dreams and live your life as you wish."

How is that so different from Sanders proposals?

 

[UCFKnight85]

Your thread title is pretty misleading to say the last, it is just a semantics disagreement.

In Rasmussen's view, "The Nordic model is an expanded welfare state which provides a high level of security to its citizens, but it is also a successful market economy with much freedom to pursue your dreams and live your life as you wish."

How is that so different from Sanders proposals?

Scandinavian Welfare isn't that simple either. It's far more socialist than their PM wants to admit. In places like Norway, they nationalized many key industries, most notably being the oil and natural resource industries, and use those nationalized industries to pay out guaranteed welfare checks to everyone. And by everyone, I mean a tiny, tiny populace that is almost entirely homogeneous.

Also, why are Democrats so obsessed with using near entirely white, tiny populaces as their glowing example of what their brand of socialism could be? Trying to compare Denmark and Norway to the US is just insane. It's absurd. There are 20M people in all of Scandinavia combined.

 

[Crazyhole]

Your thread title is pretty misleading to say the last, it is just a semantics disagreement.

In Rasmussen's view, "The Nordic model is an expanded welfare state which provides a high level of security to its citizens, but it is also a successful market economy with much freedom to pursue your dreams and live your life as you wish."

How is that so different from Sanders proposals?

Therefore, I would like to make one thing clear. Denmark is far from a socialist planned economy. Denmark is a market economy."

Bernie touts his plans as being comparable to Denmark and Denmark comes out and says "your plan isnt what we do", that's the equivalent of saying STFU liar.

 

[sk8knight]

Scandinavian Welfare isn't that simple either. It's far more socialist than their PM wants to admit. In places like Norway, they nationalized many key industries, most notably being the oil and natural resource industries, and use those nationalized industries to pay out guaranteed welfare checks to everyone. And by everyone, I mean a tiny, tiny populace that is almost entirely homogeneous.

Also, why are Democrats so obsessed with using near entirely white, tiny populaces as their glowing example of what their brand of socialism could be? Trying to compare Denmark and Norway to the US is just insane. It's absurd. There are 20M people in all of Scandinavia combined.

This variable cannot be understated when doing comparisons. The impact of the amount of diversity that we have on our social systems combined with the sheer volume of people is unlike anywhere else in the world (yes, I know that you can pull UN diversity stats that consider different tribes in countries as diversity and only count entire races for ours). From a medical system alone, you have to account for a huge diversity of genetic maladies plus the entire range of behavior-induced conditions compared to the Nordic homogeneity and healthier lifestyles. This is a much more expensive proposition.

 

[UCFKnight85]

This variable cannot be understated when doing comparisons. The impact of the amount of diversity that we have on our social systems combined with the sheer volume of people is unlike anywhere else in the world (yes, I know that you can pull UN diversity stats that consider different tribes in countries as diversity and only count entire races for ours). From a medical system alone, you have to account for a huge diversity of genetic maladies plus the entire range of behavior-induced conditions compared to the Nordic homogeneity and healthier lifestyles. This is a much more expensive proposition.

Of course, but lefties always carefully avoid this point.

Liberals: "White people are the cause of our problems! White people suck!"
Also Liberals: "We need to be exactly like that country with nothing but white people!"

 

[Cubs79]

Therefore, I would like to make one thing clear. Denmark is far from a socialist planned economy. Denmark is a market economy."

Bernie touts his plans as being comparable to Denmark and Denmark comes out and says "your plan isnt what we do", that's the equivalent of saying STFU liar.

So again, what is so different about Bernie's policies that are so distinctive from Denmark?

He said they wouldn't describe his country as socialist, he didn't say thing a about Bernie's specific policies. Again, it is a semantics disagreement, nothing more.

 

[Cubs79]

Scandinavian Welfare isn't that simple either. It's far more socialist than their PM wants to admit. In places like Norway, they nationalized many key industries, most notably being the oil and natural resource industries, and use those nationalized industries to pay out guaranteed welfare checks to everyone. And by everyone, I mean a tiny, tiny populace that is almost entirely homogeneous.

Also, why are Democrats so obsessed with using near entirely white, tiny populaces as their glowing example of what their brand of socialism could be? Trying to compare Denmark and Norway to the US is just insane. It's absurd. There are 20M people in all of Scandinavia combined.

We aren't obsessed with those countries, but we also aren't above learning from other countries and even instilling some of their ideas if those ideas are successful.

Yes we are larger than those countries, and also have a much much larger tax base than those countries.

 

[Crazyhole]

So again, what is so different about Bernie's policies that are so distinctive from Denmark?

He said they wouldn't describe his country as socialist, he didn't say thing about Bernie's specific policies. Again, it is a semantics disagreement, nothing more.

Denmark doesnt have single payer. Denmark doesnt have a law banning private insurers. Kinda big differences. Bernie can compare his plan to Cuba if he wants an example, but he needs to stop lying about how he is proposing a scandinavian style of healthcare

 

[UCFKnight85]

We aren't obsessed with those countries, but we also aren't above learning from other countries and even instilling some of their ideas if those ideas are successful.

Yes we are larger than those countries, and also have a much much larger tax base than those countries.

I'm fine with stealing some best practices. I'm not fine with a socialist upending our entire economy, nationalizing health care, and throwing radical leftist groups into the mix to make key decisions regarding our domestic and foreign policy.

 

[Cubs79]

Denmark doesnt have single payer. Denmark doesnt have a law banning private insurers. Kinda big differences. Bernie can compare his plan to Cuba if he wants an example, but he needs to stop lying about how he is proposing a scandinavian style of healthcare

Denmark does have single payer.
https://international.commonwealthfund.org/countries/denmark/
Their government pays about 85% of healthcare costs. They do have co pay for some services (some meds, dental, a few others) which private insurance can assist in, but to say they aren't single payer is really splitting hairs.

 

[UCFWayne]

i believe bernie has talked about nationalizing the energy sector to help combat climate change. but hes not that kind of socialist.*

 

[Crazyhole]

Denmark does have single payer.
https://international.commonwealthfund.org/countries/denmark/
Their government pays about 85% of healthcare costs. They do have co pay for some services (some meds, dental, a few others) which private insurance can assist in, but to say they aren't single payer is really splitting hairs.

No they don't. They have universal coverage, big difference. Obamacare is universal coverage. MFA is single payer and under Bernie even supplemental private plans are outlawed. Denmark uses private insurers to process the system, not unlike Medicaid. Bernie wants a cuba style system, not a Scandinavian system.

 

[Crazyhole]

i believe bernie has talked about nationalizing the energy sector to help combat climate change. but hes not that kind of socialist.*

Nationalizing insurance, energy, housing, secondary education...............how do people not see that he's a communist?

 

[Cubs79]

No they don't. They have universal coverage, big difference. Obamacare is universal coverage. MFA is single payer and under Bernie even supplemental private plans are outlawed. Denmark uses private insurers to process the system, not unlike Medicaid. Bernie wants a cuba style system, not a Scandinavian system.

Huh? THis is entire post is completely void of facts. First off, what is your definition of single payer if the government paying 85% of its nations healthcare costs isnt single payer?

Obamacare is not universal coverage because the majority of the nation isnt even on Obamacare.

Medicaid is not paid for by private insurers.

Bernie's plan does not ban supplemental insurance, you are just factually incorrect.

 

[Cubs79]

Nationalizing insurance, energy, housing, secondary education...............how do people not see that he's a communist?

Wait, so if Bernie wins you are saying we wont own our own houses anymore?

 

[UCFKnight85]

Wait, so if Bernie wins you are saying we wont own our own houses anymore?

His own website literally says he will spend $2.5 Trillion to build government homes in the US

 

[Cubs79]

His own website literally says he will spend $2.5 Trillion to build government homes in the US

Which doesnt equate to nationalizing the housing industry.

 

[KNIGHTTIME^]

Bernie's plan is making sure he has tons of money along with other sleeze balls. Productive people will be hurt and the leeches get rewarded.

 

[UCFKnight85]

The irony. This sack of crap.

 

[KNIGHTTIME^]

Healthcare would be great for him. Just not the citizens. He would have died waiting if he wasn't government employee in a government healthcare program.

 

[fried-chicken]

Bernie hysteria is so funny. I love that crazyhole is so inept at understanding what he's reading that he's making all kinds of insane claims about Bernie taking over the housing industry.

Are we to the point where SDS kicks in?

 

[Cubs79]

The irony. This sack of crap.

View embedded media

What is the irony? Medicare for all is an insurance program, there would still be private hospitals.

 

[KNIGHTTIME^]

What is the irony? Medicare for all is an insurance program, there would still be private hospitals.

You really think the government can make something "cheaper"? Riiiight. Currently Medicare takes in about 1 dollar for every 2 dollars spent. Let's multiple that by a crap load of people and illegals that the leeches also want to cover.

 

[UCFKnight85]

What is the irony? Medicare for all is an insurance program, there would still be private hospitals.

lol we've been over this. If you're willing to believe this then you're simply accepting a lie as fact for the purpose of getting your head around eventually voting for a socialist.

Private hospitals make money. PROFIT! Omg! Why would Comrade Sanders stand for this? People making money in health care is wrong!

 

[KNIGHTTIME^]

Time to tax the other 49% pretty hard for all these communist dreams.

 

[Cubs79]

lol we've been over this. If you're willing to believe this then you're simply accepting a lie as fact for the purpose of getting your head around eventually voting for a socialist.

Private hospitals make money. PROFIT! Omg! Why would Comrade Sanders stand for this? People making money in health care is wrong!

We have been over that you are completely making this up, yes, you are right we probably have. If you have a problem with his policies then you are more than welcome to criticize them, as you can criticize any policies by any politician. But at this point you are criticizing a fantasy that only exists in your head. And BTW, if his policies are so terrible, then you wouldn't have to pull stuff out of your ass to criticize them.

 

[Cubs79]

You really think the government can make something "cheaper"? Riiiight. Currently Medicare takes in about 1 dollar for every 2 dollars spent. Let's multiple that by a crap load of people and illegals that the leeches also want to cover.

Eliminating a for profit middle man would certainly help with costs, not to mention to the ability to negotiate on drug prices and things of that nature.

 

[fried-chicken]

lol we've been over this. If you're willing to believe this then you're simply accepting a lie as fact for the purpose of getting your head around eventually voting for a socialist.

Private hospitals make money. PROFIT! Omg! Why would Comrade Sanders stand for this? People making money in health care is wrong!

You're showing just how uneducated you are.

Almost every hospital in America is non-profit.

 

[fried-chicken]

You really think the government can make something "cheaper"? Riiiight. Currently Medicare takes in about 1 dollar for every 2 dollars spent. Let's multiple that by a crap load of people and illegals that the leeches also want to cover.

It's called economies of scale. You can eliminate administrative expense. Medicare is already better than private companies at administrative expenses and that number will only decrease further with scale.

Additionally the buying power of single payer will drive costs down. That's why the same shit costs less in countries with single payer.

 

[btbones]

Is the same government that has done such a stellar job with the usps going to run the healthcare industry as well> Can't wait *

 

[KNIGHTTIME^]

Is the same government that has done such a stellar job with the usps going to run the healthcare industry as well> Can't wait *

Exactly

 

[fried-chicken]

Is the same government that has done such a stellar job with the usps going to run the healthcare industry as well> Can't wait *

USPS is an infrastructure service. Not a for profit company. While it's time may have passed there was a time when having USPS was crucial for our growth economically and even if it was losing a shit ton (It's not) it would contribute back even more into the economy.

 

[Crazyhole]

Huh? THis is entire post is completely void of facts. First off, what is your definition of single payer if the government paying 85% of its nations healthcare costs isnt single payer?

Obamacare is not universal coverage because the majority of the nation isnt even on Obamacare.

Medicaid is not paid for by private insurers.

Bernie's plan does not ban supplemental insurance, you are just factually incorrect.

Obamacare is universal coverage because no one is denied coverage. If you dont make any money you can get subsidies to pay for it.

Medicaid is administered by private insurers paid for by the state. It's the largest growth in their market over the last 10 years.

Bernie has said multiple times that he wants to outlaw private health insurance.

 

[Crazyhole]

It's called economies of scale. You can eliminate administrative expense. Medicare is already better than private companies at administrative expenses and that number will only decrease further with scale.

Additionally the buying power of single payer will drive costs down. That's why the same shit costs less in countries with single payer.

Medicare is not better at administrative costs. Ask any nursing director or hospital compliance officer and they will tell you how much more time and work goes into medicare reimbursements than private insurance.

 

[fried-chicken]

Medicare is not better at administrative costs. Ask any nursing director or hospital compliance officer and they will tell you how much more time and work goes into medicare reimbursements than private insurance.

Ask a nurse or check the financials. I'll go with the financials

 

[fried-chicken]

For those curious. Medicare administrative cost is $11 per user per month.

Private insurance administrative cost is $60 per user per month.

If all 350,000,000 Americans were on Medicare the cost would be under 4B per month. On private insurance it is 21B per month we would save 500,000,000 per day on administrative costs alone assuming we gain zero economies of scale.