the people responsible for the dmv, usps, public schools, hurricane katrina and maria responses, pothole filled roads, and mountains of red tape promise they will get it right when it comes to health care this time.
Denmark tells Bernie to STFU
- Thread starter Crazyhole
- Start date
It is about people being able to afford to get care in the first place, or not ruin their lives getting that care. The # 1 cause of bankruptcies is medical treatment and the # of people who don't get treatment for things is a lot. How can you not see this is a major issue?
Serious question. If people can sick and can't afford treatment, are you ok with them just dying?
The question is not that simple and you know it. Right now hospitals are required to provide lifesaving care. Can we do better? Yes. I refuse to think that a US government solution is the better way.
the costs of healthcare and insurance has been an issue for decades, and it just gets worse and worse. If a non government solution is the answer then what does that look like? How come it hasn't happened yet? How much longer until it does happen?
I think you guys are forgetting that a potential government solution is only in play because of the failures of the private market with this issue. So you say the question isn't that simple, but unless you have some idea on how to fix it within the private market, then it kind of is that simple.
Hospitals provided emergency care, they most certainly don't provide things like cancer treatment without being paid for it, and that is most certainly life saving care.
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This is where you are fundamentally wrong. In a free market system, insurance rates lag cost of care increases which is where the source of the issue lies. Insurance isn't the issue as it exists only as an intermediary for payment. The issue is that cost of care has gone up due to a lack of free market principles, originating with group insurance in the 1940s, accelerating in the 1960s and 70s with medicare, and getting completely out of control in the 2010s with obamacare. All 3 factors were formulated by government intrusion into the free market
So what, you want to get rid of medicare, obamacare, and group insurance? Republicans talk about how bad government healthcare is, but I never hear a solution. So what does would your ideal health care system look like in 2020?
And cost of insurance slowed after the ACA was passed, you are just making up your own facts again.
Get rid of group insurance altogether. Go to individual plans where the patient sees a direct influence on their personal finances for a doctors visit. Bring the consumer back into the equation. Insurance is a great hedge, but its nature is a gamble so treat it as such. Let people decide how necessary an MRI is for a broken bone with their doctor if an x-ray is good enough, knowing that it will increase their rates next year instead of eschewing it because somebody else is going to pay for it.
That's a different discussion. The primary goal should be to make healthcare affordable enough that everyone can buy insurance that suits their needs. Bring the consumer back into the equation and prices will come down. That will make insurance more affordable for everyone, including people who dont make a lot of money. Did quality of care go up after Obamacare? Nope, it remained flat. Do medicare patients have a higher quality of care? No to both. The only end result is hospitals and doctors make more money and it takes up a larger portion of the economy.
It absolutely isn't a different discussion. When talking about the price of healthcare, then talking about the people who can't afford it is absolutely a major part of the discussion.
Sure it is. It's a matter of how to make it more affordable, not how to pay for it if it's super expensive
I’d like to see a move towards critical care insurance and away from wrapping wellness and maintenance into insurance. Make maintenance and wellness and simple treatments be full-on market principles where hospital networks and doctor groups have to compete at the consumer level.
Similar to veterinarians. Banfield offers a pet wellness plan because it has the freedom to innovate and needs to attract customers. Other doctor’s charge ala carte. Pick your preference. Then we can provide either tax breaks for doctors who perform pro bono work or create something like an HSA for needs-based individuals.
Similar to veterinarians. Banfield offers a pet wellness plan because it has the freedom to innovate and needs to attract customers. Other doctor’s charge ala carte. Pick your preference. Then we can provide either tax breaks for doctors who perform pro bono work or create something like an HSA for needs-based individuals.
The problem with this is this country isnt very good at wellness as it is, and I can only imagine that would get worse if you took it out of insurance policies. Marianne Williamson had a great point in one of the debates in that we dont have healthcare in this country, we have sick care, and that in and of itself drives up prices. I think your plan would just mean more people dont go to the doctor until they are really sick, and their care would cost even more.
This x 1000. The ridiculous thing is that this is exactly the direction the market was taking prior to ACA. I, and anyone else had the opportunity to buy a policy that fit my families needs back then and it was affordable. Employer based insurance groups are the primary reason why costs went up, and that's the thing that should have been addressed. Just another example of how "1 size fits all" leads to waste and dissatisfaction.
One smart decision is limit ability for patients to sue. This is creating a huge problem of cost and loss of productivity and additional tests to cya.
No it wasn't, what world are you living in? Prior to the ACA the premiums per family averaged close to $14,000 a year, and going up every year. And again, that is just for premiums. Yes, prices have continued to go up, but you are trying to create an alternate history prior to the ACA that simply didn't exist.
remember when bernie used to rail against millionaires and billionaires wrecking out country? why did he stop complaining about millionaires?
They averaged 14k but I was paying less than 4k for a family of 5? Again: employer based group insurance.
Ok, but people aren't worried about your anecdotal situation, so it is meaningless. Most people weren't in your position. And, it is also meaningless because nobody here has access to your policy to see what kind of copays you had to pay, what your policy covered etc etc. So congratulations to you, but anecdotal situations don't apply to societal discussions.
Because it's easy to become a millionaire if you save right and only dumb chuds think million dollar retirement accounts are INSANE wealth.
It's too easy for the right to claim he's talking about little old lady retirement accounts when hes talking about people making 8 and 9 figures annually.
I'm curious if Bernies tax plan makes your life better or worse. Check the link above and let me know how hard the tax increase hits you.
See, that's the thing. People were duped into taking jobs because they had "benefits" like health insurance. They took lower salaries because of it but if they were smart enough to look at it, they could have found a private plan for pretty cheap and taken a job for higher wages without the benefits and come out ahead. That's what I'm talking about when you ask for an alternative solution. Employer based insurance was developed as a tactic in the 1940s to keep wages down, convincing employees that they would come out ahead. It grew and grew until it was unsustainable, but that's hardly validation for going further down the same road.
One minor point here, employer-based healthcare came out in the 40’s because of federal caps on labor compensation. It was one of the few things that they could use to compete for labor. So it was a result of tactics to keep wages down, not really a solution for it.
He is a millionaire so he doesn't want the government to touch his 3 houses and book deal. Easy to take others though.
For the lefties on here now throwing cover for Bernie Sanders and his socialist wet dreams, have a look at this analysis of his real, actual policies pulled straight from his own campaign website. Cliffs:
- $97 Trillion added as NEW government spending over 10 years
- Grows government spending to more than 70% of GDP
- Grows the annual deficit to over 30% of GDP
- 50% of all workers would be thrown onto the government payroll
And don't forget, MFA is just one component of the insane government growth this guy wants. He wants MFA, a guaranteed government job to anyone who wants one (to do what?), the Green New Deal, forgiving ALL student loan debt and guarantee "free" college to everyone, and he'd build $2.5 Trillion worth of government owned homes.
https://www.city-journal.org/bernie-sanders-expensive-spending-proposals
This is not a sane, normal agenda. This is what someone proposes who has lived their entire life idolizing communist and socialist regimes and pulled ideas straight from their baskets.
Remember this when people like @fried-chicken try to normalize this extremist as it becomes evident that the Democrats are going to run a senile, communist sympathizing socialist as their nominee.
- $97 Trillion added as NEW government spending over 10 years
- Grows government spending to more than 70% of GDP
- Grows the annual deficit to over 30% of GDP
- 50% of all workers would be thrown onto the government payroll
And don't forget, MFA is just one component of the insane government growth this guy wants. He wants MFA, a guaranteed government job to anyone who wants one (to do what?), the Green New Deal, forgiving ALL student loan debt and guarantee "free" college to everyone, and he'd build $2.5 Trillion worth of government owned homes.
https://www.city-journal.org/bernie-sanders-expensive-spending-proposals
This is not a sane, normal agenda. This is what someone proposes who has lived their entire life idolizing communist and socialist regimes and pulled ideas straight from their baskets.
Remember this when people like @fried-chicken try to normalize this extremist as it becomes evident that the Democrats are going to run a senile, communist sympathizing socialist as their nominee.
We have a capitalist for President already. Sorry, Dems are the party of socialism now.
Hey now, they took on thousands of muslim refugees and increased rapes by 2000%. Because diversity
I like Ted Cruz's response to bernie praising Castro's literacy programs:Bernie Sanders went to the mat AGAIN to praise Cuba and Castro last night
![[roll]](http://l.yimg.com/j/assets/img/emoticons/classic/roll.r191677.gif "roll [roll]")
"It really makes a difference when those you murder at the firing squad can read & write,"
im going to write a best selling book and become a millionaire.*
but yea im completely shocked that the privileged and rich straight white male has no problems with another millionaire.
please point to some highly success gov programs or agencies.
unfortunately my work blocks all the social media, but theres is a great clip of bernies tweets about millionaires/billionaires. then one day he stops mentioning millionaires because he became one and only rails against billionaires now.
I like those proposals. Think of how much less I'll have to spend in my life if I just pay my taxes.
Oh no I need to pay 35% taxes how am I going to save for my kids college now. Oh nevermind.
Well, how am I going to contribute to my HSA and pay my medical bills with so much taken out of my paycheck for health insurance. Oh, nevermind.
Well, what am I going to do about my wife's student loan payments. Oh, nevermind.
I guess paying taxes didn't hit me as hard as expected.
In other words: “this article is pretty God awful for my defense of this socialist so I’m going to use the most vague possible examples to insist that Comrade Sanders can install $97 Trillion of new spending and not decimate our economy”
There is no possible way that you’re going to get all of that with only a 35% income tax. Or how about this: my company went out of business because they couldn’t compete with foreign competitors after the corporate tax increases and I can’t find a job. When is that free housing coming again?
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