He's gotten his ass beat so bad on this topic that he's revising his revisionist history. This is actually pretty entertaining.
Here's some true PC hypocricy over the confederate flag
- Thread starter UCFKnight85
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He's gotten his ass beat so bad on this topic that he's revising his revisionist history. This is actually pretty entertaining.
LOL at saying that the US essentially supported slavery for the first 76 years while the confederacy only did it for 4. Only an idiot would actually believe that.
People seem to forget that we were really just a bunch of separate states that loosely associated with each other. I believe most states had their own separate currency from one another until around the time of the civil war. So no, not all of the US supported slavery for 76 years. There were states that fully supported slavery and states that were against it. Pretty sure those states divided up accordingly during the civil war.
People seem to forget that we were really just a bunch of separate states that loosely associated with each other. I believe most states had their own separate currency from one another until around the time of the civil war. So no, not all of the US supported slavery for 76 years. There were states that fully supported slavery and states that were against it. Pretty sure those states divided up accordingly during the civil war.
Jesus Christ--I corrected a factual error you made when you said the North only abolished slavery as a last ditch effort to win the war. That simply isn't true. I noticed that you completely dodged that response as well.
Executive Mansion,
Washington, August 22, 1862.
Hon. Horace Greeley:
Dear Sir.
I have just read yours of the 19th. addressed to myself through the New-York Tribune. If there be in it any statements, or assumptions of fact, which I may know to be erroneous, I do not, now and here, controvert them. If there be in it any inferences which I may believe to be falsely drawn, I do not now and here, argue against them. If there be perceptable in it an impatient and dictatorial tone, I waive it in deference to an old friend, whose heart I have always supposed to be right.
As to the policy I "seem to be pursuing" as you say, I have not meant to leave any one in doubt.
I would save the Union. I would save it the shortest way under the Constitution. The sooner the national authority can be restored; the nearer the Union will be "the Union as it was." If there be those who would not save the Union, unless they could at the same time save slavery, I do not agree with them. If there be those who would not save the Union unless they could at the same time destroy slavery, I do not agree with them. My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union. I shall do less whenever I shall believe what I am doing hurts the cause, and I shall do more whenever I shall believe doing more will help the cause. I shall try to correct errors when shown to be errors; and I shall adopt new views so fast as they shall appear to be true views.
I have here stated my purpose according to my view of official duty; and I intend no modification of my oft-expressed personal wish that all men every where could be free.
Yours,
A. Lincoln.
Washington, August 22, 1862.
Hon. Horace Greeley:
Dear Sir.
I have just read yours of the 19th. addressed to myself through the New-York Tribune. If there be in it any statements, or assumptions of fact, which I may know to be erroneous, I do not, now and here, controvert them. If there be in it any inferences which I may believe to be falsely drawn, I do not now and here, argue against them. If there be perceptable in it an impatient and dictatorial tone, I waive it in deference to an old friend, whose heart I have always supposed to be right.
As to the policy I "seem to be pursuing" as you say, I have not meant to leave any one in doubt.
I would save the Union. I would save it the shortest way under the Constitution. The sooner the national authority can be restored; the nearer the Union will be "the Union as it was." If there be those who would not save the Union, unless they could at the same time save slavery, I do not agree with them. If there be those who would not save the Union unless they could at the same time destroy slavery, I do not agree with them. My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union. I shall do less whenever I shall believe what I am doing hurts the cause, and I shall do more whenever I shall believe doing more will help the cause. I shall try to correct errors when shown to be errors; and I shall adopt new views so fast as they shall appear to be true views.
I have here stated my purpose according to my view of official duty; and I intend no modification of my oft-expressed personal wish that all men every where could be free.
Yours,
A. Lincoln.
I bet the morons who made that graphic don't even realize that the current iteration of the US flag, the one in their picture, has only existed since 1960 once Hawaii was ratified as a state.
LOL. I DON'T BELIEVE IT SO IT MUST NOT BE TRUE!
Slavery was legal under the US flag. Slavery was fought for under the Confederate flag at roughly the same time the US flag made slavery illegal. The US flag has a history of slavery just as the Confederate flag does. The only difference is that in the 76 years of legal slavery under the US flag, they didn't have to fight anyone to keep it.
What don't you get about that? I don't see what's funny nor idiotic.
That's horrid logic considering slavery was nearly entirely contained to the south under the US flag, which happened to be the same south that ditched the flag when the north finally won enough influence to put a dent in the slave trade (i.e. Lincoln and the Republicans winning their first ever election in 1860).
Slavery prior to the Confederacy was mostly due in part to the influence of those same southern states and their ability to elect leaders that were from the south and supported their cause.
Therefore this entire argument is incredibly ridiculous.
http://news.yahoo.com/lawmakers-move-confederate-flag-debate-grieving-082159405.html
Looks like Alabama is taking down the flag as well. Good for them.
Looks like Alabama is taking down the flag as well. Good for them.
I don't understand how this is ridiculous. SLAVERY WAS LEGAL IN THE UNITED STATES. PERIOD. YOU ****ING DENSE IDIOT. Whether the north condoned slavery or not is irrelevant. IT WAS LEGAL AND SANCTIONED BY THE US GOVERNMENT UNDER THE FLAG FOR A LONG TIME.
The Confederate flag represented direct and documented support to keep slavery if they won the war. The US flag didn't. Anything before that is irrelevant. How hard is that to comprehend?
It is not? I'm not arguing that. Nor am I arguing to keep the confederate flag around.
Why is anything before that irrelevant. The US had the choice to abolish slavery when it declared independence and it didn't. You just can't disregard history because it doesn't fit your narrative.
Any history buffs visited the Confederate Memorial Park in Brandon? World's largest Confederate battle flag!
BAN PRIVATE PARKS!!!!
From: http://www.tampascv.org/cmp.html
"Confederate Memorial Park was a vision that began to take shape in 2007 when the land on the southwest corner of I-4 and I-75 was purchased. The journey wasn't an easy one. City, County, and FAA regulations and codes had to be met; not to mention those in the media and public that were detractors. Construction began in 2008. The park is adorned with 75 Confederate jasmine on chain link fencing bordering 18 pallets of Pensacola Bahia sod on the grounds with an additional 300 feet of flower beds, The center piece of this historical park dedication is the world's largest Confederate battle flag, 30 feet by 60 feet.
It is beautiful and waves 139 feet in the air on the southwest corner of I-4 and I-75 at exit 261 in Tampa, Florida. The 139-foot tall flagpole was manufactured in Texas and delivered to Florida in four sections. The pole base is 14 feet in the ground surrounded by an eight foot diameter sleeve filled with 12,000 pounds of concrete. The base of the flagpole itself is two feet in diameter with six inches diameter at the top, and an internal halyard for raising the flag. In the center of the park stand 10 granite monuments bearing the names of those who helped make the dream a reality. There is also a very nice bench that was donated by the Order of Confederate Rose Florida Division."
BAN PRIVATE PARKS!!!!
From: http://www.tampascv.org/cmp.html
"Confederate Memorial Park was a vision that began to take shape in 2007 when the land on the southwest corner of I-4 and I-75 was purchased. The journey wasn't an easy one. City, County, and FAA regulations and codes had to be met; not to mention those in the media and public that were detractors. Construction began in 2008. The park is adorned with 75 Confederate jasmine on chain link fencing bordering 18 pallets of Pensacola Bahia sod on the grounds with an additional 300 feet of flower beds, The center piece of this historical park dedication is the world's largest Confederate battle flag, 30 feet by 60 feet.
It is beautiful and waves 139 feet in the air on the southwest corner of I-4 and I-75 at exit 261 in Tampa, Florida. The 139-foot tall flagpole was manufactured in Texas and delivered to Florida in four sections. The pole base is 14 feet in the ground surrounded by an eight foot diameter sleeve filled with 12,000 pounds of concrete. The base of the flagpole itself is two feet in diameter with six inches diameter at the top, and an internal halyard for raising the flag. In the center of the park stand 10 granite monuments bearing the names of those who helped make the dream a reality. There is also a very nice bench that was donated by the Order of Confederate Rose Florida Division."
Well first they had to fight for independence against the British...something called the Revolutionary War. What about the War of 1812? Considering it eventually took a Civil War to abolish slavery i doubt whoever supported slavery in the beginning was just going to decide to outlaw it for the time being and bring it up another time.
Now everyone together. Yes, Bob is right about pretty much everything and constantly rolls over me in debates.
It's great arguing with people who can't f*cking comprehend the application of the most basic context.
If your argument that the Confederate flag is really hunky dory in 2015 because slavery was legal in the US prior to the Civil War, thanks almost entirely in part to the very southern states that later left the US, then you're a goddamn idiot and need to have your head checked.
This entire argument is laughable. These are desperate arguments made by people refusing to accept reality.
This entire argument is laughable. These are desperate arguments made by people refusing to accept reality.
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha (pausing to switch languages) jajajajajajajajajajajajajajajajajajajajajajajaa!!!!!!
Hold on: the dude who's dodged me twice now is calling people out for not responding? That's rich.
I believe 85 said in a previous post that the primary goal was to preserve the union and the mechanism by which that was accomplished was the end of slavery. That sort of parallels what Lincoln did, no?
Hold on: the dude who's dodged me twice now is calling people out for not responding? That's rich.
I believe 85 said in a previous post that the primary goal was to preserve the union and the mechanism by which that was accomplished was the end of slavery. That sort of parallels what Lincoln did, no?
This wasn't about the flag, it was about the reason for the war. We heard the reason straight from the horses mouth. Which then supports the claim that the US flag wasn't much better than the Confederate flag in the 1860s.
No where did I say the Confederate flag was hunky dory in 2015. I think it is ****ing hilarious how you can sit here and ignore the entirety of US history between the signing of the declaration of independence and the start of the civil war and then call others illogical. The whole thing is silly. You are refusing to accept that the US sanctioned slavery for decades! Yet, according to you, pointing this fact out is laughable, irrelevant, and illogical.
The reality is that the confederate flag needs to go and you're a ****ing idiot.
No, loser. This is what 85 said in response to Bob posting the reason for the war being reunification....
And you'd be wrong again.
What did I dodge btw? You're almost there Doc. It's ok to admit a white trash RACIST!!! is smarter than you. Jengajengajengajengajengajengajenga!!!
Would there have been a war if slavery was off the books in the south? I am not denying the preservation of the union was his chief goal. I have not argued against that--I've stated slavery was the base alloy of the conflict.
Well, I guess I shouldn't have spoken for 85. I thought he stated that at one point.
You know darn well where you've dodged me. Please don't play dumb.
And you smarter than me? What time did you start drinking this morning?
I believe it still would have happened. The slave states had enough votes in Congress to never allow slavery to be abolished. It was as much about social, economic and cultural (rural farmers vs industrial revolution) differences as it was slavery.
No, if slavery was off the books (i.e. all black people are free). That's what I meant.
Yes, it still would have been southern rural states vs northern urban states. The economy of the South didn't change that much after the war.
Yes, I know you started drinking at 6am. Geniuses like me were still sleeping.
It's ok. I know it, you know it, and your mother definitely knows it. Your father won't admit it.
I don't even understand what the argument is. Where do I need to start in the other thread to catch up? There were obviously many factors leading to war but every single one revolved around slavery in one way or another. Slaves at the time of war were worth more than every railroad and manufacturing company in this country combined. 75% of freaking exports .... FROM FREE LABOR. Tariffs or whatever else was always secondary. Anyone who says otherwise is pumping revisionist bullshit.
Ok then, well I guess you could say the war (even a hypothetical one) would have been about slavery. And um, ahem, that's all I've maintained in these threads. That and that the flag that symbolized/stood for the confederate constitution has no place on capitol grounds. Your premise that the American Flag pre-1860 = the confederate flag of 2-4 years is your opinion. I'm not the one who has been fighting you tooth and nail on that. In fact, I'm not quite sure what you're arguing at me. I agreed with the fact that we founded our country without resolving slavery. I disagreed that abolishing it was a last-ditch effort. That is factually incorrect.
