Gee, I dunno why democrats think they have to change the rules that Red State Republicans pass to restrict access to voting? It's a real mystery.
HOUSE DEMOCRATS VOTE TO LEGALIZE VOTING FRAUD
- Thread starter _glaciers
- Start date
Restrict voting how? Needing an ID? Actually having to show up to vote? Those are ridiculously low standards if you'd ask me.
Showing up to vote isn't a low standard considering we have the genius idea of having elections right in the middle of work weeks. For hourly employees, it can literally cost them money to go vote, for others they simply might not be able to get away on voting day. Not to mention if we get rid of mail in voting I guess kids away at school just cant vote, etc etc. And considering some states now are trying to get rid of not just mail in voting, but also reducing early in person voting, it is more than clear what the goal is here. Hell, my deep red state has some legislators wanting to require fingerprints to votes. GA was trying to make it a crime to hand out food or water to people standing in voting lines.
Yeah because most people work longer than 7 to 7 with no lunch breaks.
You realize some voting places have lines that take well over an hour. And not everyone works in the district they vote in, so it isnt as simple as taking a quick lunch break and going to vote.
And the solution to those simple issues is just having a 2 or 3 day window for early voting, and allowing absentee ballots like we've done for years. There's no reason to upend the entire process unconstitutionally like what HR1 does.
Absentee ballots are mail in ballots. If you are actually worried about fraud then why are absentee ballots acceptable?
There is no reason we cant have early voting for basically the entire month of October. It is in person, which is what you guys want, and it makes it easier for busy people to work it in their schedule. Reducing it, or eliminating it completely, is for no other reason than making it more difficult for people to vote.
I can solve that. Just declare a national holiday for election day. Heck, make it a 3 day holiday, paid for by the federal government. Everybody gets 1500 bucks and doesn't have to work, all they have to do is show up in person with a valid ID. If a state like Florida can handle the amount of election day ballot volume they did in 2020, there is no reason every state can't do the same if given a 3 day window.
What are you talking about? Florida had over 9 million early voters, which includes just under 5 million mail in ballots.
Florida Early Voting Statistics
electproject.github.io
So out of approx. 11 million totals voters, over 9 million were either early voters or mail in. Basically if you want it reduce voting to election day, then Florida would have to have over 5 times the election day #s to get to 2020 totals.
You guys are wanting to change the system because you don't like people voting, not because you actually think there are major problems with the elections. Just be honest about it.
So since you guys were wanting to throw out PA, MI, GA, etc, should Florida votes also have been thrown out? If it is so fraudulent, I am assuming you would have to say yes.
That isn't what I asked. If you think all of this is fraudulent then how come Florida votes weren't contested? There were more mail in ballots from Florida than any of the states you guys said was stolen. Don't get me wrong, that was rhetorical, I know the answer and understand why you would avoid the question.
Did Florida voting patterns differ significantly from previous elections? Did Florida have a disqualification rate that far underran a normal election? Did Florida have reports of irregularities in its counting processes? It’s not like there hasn’t been other smoke on some of these states as well.
Please answer the following with a simple yes or no:
1. Is mail in voting less secure than in person voting?
2. Is there any way to be sure that a ballot that was mailed in was actually cast by the person it was intended for and not intercepted, tampered with, or filled out fraudulently?
3. Does it seem easy to vote fraudulently and in large numbers using mail in voting if someone is willing to break the law to do so?
1) Nobody has proven it is less secure.
2) For the most part. People can review that their ballot was received after it is mailed, so if something seems office they can contact their election officials.
3) Nobody has proven that is easy, so I will say no.
So are you against all absentee balloting then? Absentee balloting is mail in balloting, and most states have had that for years. Where was the concern before?
None of the "smoke" was ever remotely shown to be credible. But that is also evading the point. If mail in balloting is so fraudulent, then I would think you would want to get rid of if in Florida as well right?
You don’t seem to understand “simple yes or no” or honesty. If you can’t admit that in person voting is obviously more secure, you’re just a dishonest person not willing to engage an argument in good faith.
And yes, absentee balloting as it exists should be abolished.
The new concern is over the fact that we’ve never had states just sending all voters mail-in ballots. That takes the scale of it from just a small number of ballots that were requested by voters in special circumstances to hundreds of thousands of opportunities for votes to be stolen, forged, etc. Plenty to swing an election.
If you ask a question I will answer how I see fit, you don't get to ask a question then also determine how it is answered. If you can't accept more than a yes or no answer, then find someone else ask questions to. If you think I am dishonest then you are free not to engage with me.
Except there is no proof it swung the election and the only states you guys challenged were states won by Democrats. Plenty of states Trump won also had large numbers of mail in ballots, but you guys are ok with those mail in ballots.
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LOL You're a good one to ask for honesty when talking about this subject. Who do you guys think you're fooling? At least be honest and admit this is about restricting voters since you Trumpets are in the minority.
Yeah, there's NO WAY that ballots can be marked to insure that the returned ballot is legit and hasn't been duplicated or forged, right? 🙄
Jesus, Knight in TN acts like this is the f*king 1950s.
You’re a clown.
I’m happy to let anyone who wants to vote do so. We’re not asking for some impossible obstacle course that only white people with conservative values can get through to vote.
All we’re asking for is presenting proof of identity and appearing in person to vote. That’s it. Who exactly does that disenfranchise?
People who cant get off work and stand in line, people in urban areas where lines are typically longer who cant stand in lines for hours, hourly workers who could lose money to go vote, students away at college, etc etc.
Congrats. You must have graduated from the _glaciers school of message board debate. 🙄
You know what? I'm cool with showing up with an ID. But if you know anything about the old Jim Crow laws, election officials used to use anything to justify turning voters away at the precinct. So I can appreciate the apprehensiveness from traditionally disenfranchised minority voters when they see those 'white people with conservative values' demanding something more from them.
And since "everyone has an ID," why is in person voting so important when "everyone conducts business online" anymore? And if you remain adamant that in person is so important, why CUT the number of days to vote? And why in the world enact special legislation in some southern States like Georgia to ELIMINATE SUNDAY voting? Last I checked, a lot of people don't work on Sundays, especially those white people with conservative values. Wouldn't that make Sunday voting a good thing?
Agreement on this stuff should be easy since we all agree that anyone who wants to vote should be able to do so, right?
This is dumb. If it is so sacred the government should make sure it is easily accessible to everyone. But let's quit playing these dumb games. We know why people don't want it to be too easy to vote, can we just get past this charade. It is typically beneficial to Republicans when turnout is low, especially if that turnout is in urban areas. That is all this is about, let's quit dumbing ourselves down to pretend it is about anything else.
Lol... ok buddy.
I sincerely hope you are never in charge of securing anything of value, because if you think that the mail is just as secure as walking your ballot to a counting machine and inserting it to be cast while poll watchers and election officials oversee the whole thing, I don’t know what to tell you. Do you need someone to prove that one of those things is more secure to you? Really?
No Sunday voting is stupid. I'd go as far as to say that early voting should last 7 full days, in return for requiring photo ID. Absentee ballots should be requested, not sent out unsolicited, and those ballots should be counted last to ensure that the voter didn't actually vote in person with an ID. I don't think any of this should be considered unreasonable.Congrats. You must have graduated from the _glaciers school of message board debate. 🙄
You know what? I'm cool with showing up with an ID. But if you know anything about the old Jim Crow laws, election officials used to use anything to justify turning voters away at the precinct. So I can appreciate the apprehensiveness from traditionally disenfranchised minority voters when they see those 'white people with conservative values' demanding something more from them.
And since "everyone has an ID," why is in person voting so important when "everyone conducts business online" anymore? And if you remain adamant that in person is so important, why CUT the number of days to vote? And why in the world enact special legislation in some southern States like Georgia to ELIMINATE SUNDAY voting? Last I checked, a lot of people don't work on Sundays, especially those white people with conservative values. Wouldn't that make Sunday voting a good thing?
Agreement on this stuff should be easy since we all agree that anyone who wants to vote should be able to do so, right?
I don't care what you hope. I need you to prove the last election wasn't secure before we start saying it was stolen, yes I need that proof, which nobody on your side is been able to provide.
You are also missing that some states want to reduce or get rid of early voting too, which is in person. There is a reason for all of this and it isn't difficult to see.
I have no problem with early in person voting, which cuts out almost everyone you’re talking about here except for students away at college.
That's good, but many Republicans do have a problem with it so it is still going to be an issue moving forward.
Lol... you called people “whiny yahoos” half an hour ago. Cool hypocrisy, bro.Congrats. You must have graduated from the _glaciers school of message board debate. 🙄
You know what? I'm cool with showing up with an ID. But if you know anything about the old Jim Crow laws, election officials used to use anything to justify turning voters away at the precinct. So I can appreciate the apprehensiveness from traditionally disenfranchised minority voters when they see those 'white people with conservative values' demanding something more from them.
And since "everyone has an ID," why is in person voting so important when "everyone conducts business online" anymore? And if you remain adamant that in person is so important, why CUT the number of days to vote? And why in the world enact special legislation in some southern States like Georgia to ELIMINATE SUNDAY voting? Last I checked, a lot of people don't work on Sundays, especially those white people with conservative values. Wouldn't that make Sunday voting a good thing?
Agreement on this stuff should be easy since we all agree that anyone who wants to vote should be able to do so, right?
And I don’t have any problem with a week of 24 hour voting being open, as long as the security of ballots is maintained at all times.
The part of your post about conducting business online is just rambling nonsense that I’m having a hard time detecting a point in.
We agree.
If in person voting is so sacrosanct, then allow early voting in person for the entire month of October. That would greatly decrease the need for absentee ballots.
You're right. If we can all agree that obstacles to voting should eliminated instead of playing BS 'voter fraud' games, it's not hard at all.
I think a month is too long. As we've seen, a lot can change in a month. A week seems reasonable because nobody works 24 hours a day for 7 weeks. Surely if someone wanted to vote they could find an hour or 2 of time in the course of a week. I have no problem with absentee ballots, but I addressed how that should be dealt with in the previous post.
I didn’t say it was stolen, but it wasn’t secure. I honestly don’t believe that Trump got more legitimate votes than Biden did. If there was a “steal” it was with big tech and legacy media conspiring to paint Trump as poorly as possible while ignoring the fact Biden hid in his basement the whole time, and actively suppressing stories about Biden family corruption - but that’s beside the point being discussed.
The opportunities for widespread fraud are obvious, and that’s why CONFIDENCE in the outcome is at an all-time low. I completely understand the people who believe it was stolen, because their conclusions are reached based on some truth.
Whether or not conservatives win, I want EVERYONE to be confident that votes were cast and counted legally. As long as there’s no full chain of custody for ballots and no verification of voter eligibility, that confidence is impossible.
Confidence is at a low for no other reason than Trump was spreading lies and conspiracies. You can have the most secure election possible (which BTW, Trump's own people said this is the most secure election in history), but if the losing candidate starts saying it was stolen then confidence is going to be shaken. There is no way to prevent that other than to get back to a point where we actually rely on evidence and proof of things, and not just conspiracies with no support or evidence to back them up.
HUH? Why? If you guys want to avoid 'the evils' of mail-in ballots, this is your best solution. The bottom line is that when a voter chooses to vote (a month out or the very last day) is up to him or her.
Then what, pray tell, are we really talking about?
When you have the nation's Commander-in-Chief saying both BEFORE and AFTER the election that the only way he loses is if there's widespread voter fraud, you don't think that's not going to impact the thinking of his diehard minions?
Hell, what was the January 6th 'Stop the Steal' all about for crying out loud?
Why? I just explained why. Sure, a month out a lot of people have already decided who they are going to vote for regardless of what happens but there are a lot that are still gathering information. There are 2 debates in October, and they can make a big difference in who a person votes for. I'm surprised that you don't think a week is long enough quite honestly.
People who are still gathering information don't have to vote early, so that is a pretty meaningless point.
Then people who have already gathered all of the information don't need to vote early either. If you don't think a week is long enough, I don't know what to tell you.
And if you think it hurts to have anywhere from 2-4 weeks of early voting I don't know what to tell you. I wish you would just be honest and say you want less people voting, because that is obviously what it is. None of the reasons you are giving make a damn bit of sense.
EXACTLY. As usual, they 'talk' a good game but, in the end, the real purpose always comes out.
Not to you, but pretty much everybody else can see that what I'm suggesting wouldn't restrict anybody from voting.
Why should someone be forced to fill out a ballot at all? That's a form of keeping people from voting, isn't it? If you can't read, you have no idea what you are voting for so it's clearly voter suppression.
