http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/ucf-knights/os-ucf-football-0928-20150927-story.html
Don't get me wrong, having a good punter is awesome, but dayummm
Don't get me wrong, having a good punter is awesome, but dayummm
How sad is it when your punter is a "playmaker?"
- Thread starter muckdawg24
- Start date
It all starts with recruiting. GOL made a huge tactical mistake in not replacing David Kelly with a capable recruiter. The longer he lets this fester, the longer we suffer. BK's boy Mogridge should have NEVER been rehired. Now we stuck with dead weight for another year (at least).
There is NO FRIGGIN REASON IN THE WORLD we shouldn't out-recruit the entire AAC. Instead of being at the top of the pack, we're closer to the bottom in this regards right now.
There is NO FRIGGIN REASON IN THE WORLD we shouldn't out-recruit the entire AAC. Instead of being at the top of the pack, we're closer to the bottom in this regards right now.
Yep. It's like he just gave up on south Florida and went to GA. We use to recruit Alabama and South Florida now it's Jacksonville, Georgia, Texas, New Orleans and Philly. Our only recruiting competition should be Houston, and USF.
Ummm ... didn't we have like ... some of our highest ranked classes the past few years?
I fully admit we don't have our south Florida pipeline anymore, with the loss of Kelly. But we've picked up a lot of 3-star talent, and the infrequent 4-star, over the last few years.
The kids are just very young and very inexperienced. Beyond the recruiting rank, you have to wait to see how they progress into next year.
Because right now, this is not only speculation, but it's at odds with where our classes have ranked.
I mean ... even with Kelly we used to get out-recruited in C-USA too. I don't understand what people are saying here ... not at all. We have some really good Freshmen.
Bo is going to be a star, no doubt. He's got the double-whammy of Freshmen receivers.
I fully admit we don't have our south Florida pipeline anymore, with the loss of Kelly. But we've picked up a lot of 3-star talent, and the infrequent 4-star, over the last few years.
The kids are just very young and very inexperienced. Beyond the recruiting rank, you have to wait to see how they progress into next year.
Because right now, this is not only speculation, but it's at odds with where our classes have ranked.
I mean ... even with Kelly we used to get out-recruited in C-USA too. I don't understand what people are saying here ... not at all. We have some really good Freshmen.
Bo is going to be a star, no doubt. He's got the double-whammy of Freshmen receivers.
Yes but we don't have enough of them. Bo could be the second coming of Peyton Manning but without weapons and an OL, he'll suck.
We all know that every program is going to go after UCF with EP. Now, we all here know that this was a tragic situation, that can't be blamed on anybody but the man upstairs. But who the closer now that can look these kids mamma in the eye and convey that message with conviction?
This is one of the reasons why I think it may be better to change coaches. If GOL can't get recruits anymore - his fault or not - time for change.
As compared to who? #1 and #2 AAC? Same thing happened in C-USA too ... even with Kelly!
We are a defense-oriented, ball-control G5 team that only recruits "UCF type" student-athletes. We've had very good success compared to most of the G5 in that regard. Heck ... look at Navy! Now tell me that type of team doesn't win. They are doing very well in the AAC so far, despite their constraints. Might have a lot to do with their strategy.
It's okay if you don't like it. But you cannot deny the success after each rebuilding year.
We have a lot of raw, inexperienced talent around him. Bo didn't have the experience around him that Bortles did. He's starting with inexperience on the other side.
We'll see how everyone develops by the end of this season, and the start of the next. Smith and a few others are definitely going to be tops for us, and we'll find out where their limits are in the coming seasons.
Huh? EP isn't the only kid who has died in a Florida program ... far from it! Again, it's only because lawyers convinced a judge in UCF's case. Stop bringing this up.
BS - you and I know the truth, but the case got downright ugly with false accusations, actions taken out of context, lawsuits, and so on and so forth. The history of lying on the resume doesn't help either - even though how ridiculous that may sound as everyone lies on the resume.
You see where I'm going? It not too hard for an opposing recruiter to cast FUD (fear, uncertainty and doubt). David Kelly shielded a lot from that and was a great closer to relate and speak the truth. Who do that now?
Any time a case goes to trial, it's going to be ugly for everyone. Again, I don't blame the family. They had a tremendous loss. The lawyers got 1 judge to rule that UCF wasn't protected by the cap, and the rest is history. Including the Florida Supreme Court smacking the heck out of that ruling, 3 out of 3 strikes.
Just to be accurate, I don't think he ever put anything on his résumé. It was his 1979 application for his first job not associated with his family. And then that "bio" was carried forward by every institution then on, which he never corrected.
How many of us fudged our first job away from family and friends? I surely wouldn't want my first application, one for a whole $6/hour, to be held against me today.
A lot of coaches deal with that. We'll get another coach, and he'll have his skeletons too. At least GoL are out there, open, for all to see. I've talked to a lot of parents of our student-athletes, and they see it differently. More like a man who knows how it is to be thrown under-the-bus.
A lot of people here are just like Notre Dame fans. They didn't want GoL, before the whole gaffe. And now that we're not going to win a 4th straight, divisional title, a 3rd straight, conference title, they are out again. All history be damned.
Kelly didn't recruit all of our players. He recruited some fine ones, and we do miss him. But we have a lot of great coaches. Some of them I wish were the OC instead of Key, but that's all water-under-the-bridge. We have to focus on what we have, and I'm actually looking forward to our kids in their 2nd and 3rd years as starters.
Apparently our recruiting hasn't dropped, given our class rankings. We just don't get as much from south Florida any more. I'd love to get more from south Florida, no argument.
But I'm tired of people saying our Freshmen are from poor recruiting classes of 2013-2014, all because our fans unrealistically expect them to produce out-the-gate. Stop speculating, let's just see what we have. That's all I've ever asked. We suck this year, in comparison, but that doesn't mean we'll suck in future years.
Because it's not that I'm a pro-GoL nuthugger. I'm scared of what a fanbase could do if the program listens to them after only 2-3 games. Doesn't matter if it's GoL ... or the next coach.
I would, but you'll find some sort of way to disprove my answer, no matter how correct it is, like you always do.
You're kidding me? I just love how people re-write history.
Just because Kelly recruited well, and got players to stay semi-local, doesn't mean we had top recruiting classes. UCF has continually been where it has been, because of the type of players we target, even when Kelly was here.
The stretches upon stretches on what a GoL-less UCF would do is laughable. That's the thing. We are already near the top, and have been, without being #1, even with Kelly. But we could go down ... way down. I don't subscribe to the automate "we'll definitely be better."
Because, worse yet ... you guys will do it on-a-whim to the next coach too! That's what scares me. You give not just GoL 0 credit, but other other coaches, including our new classes. It was Kelly, it was all Kelly. Yes, for some players. But little has actually changed overall.
We have still had some great classes. We're just at a point where we had a very young roster, and then got hit by injuries. That's why you cannot evaluate a program based on 2-3 games, or even a single season. You have to have back-to-back losing season before you consider change.
Because if there is one thing I hear is our greatest asset ... the program hasn't changed. A lot of programs lose recruits when they change. Parents have a lot of say over their kids too.
There are plenty of noobs who will agree with you. But I remember reading all those rankings.
The only time we were close to #1 in C-USA was 2010-2011, and we lost a couple 4-stars in the end, bringing it back way down. But people will re-write history. I won't even bring up the sanctions and the alleged people involved, which was not GoL. It's funny, and sad, how people want to both blame GoL for the sanctions, but laud Kelly. I still think Kelly was innocent, but this is what I mean by "Garbage Men." You pick'n choose, even if conflicting logic.
But the garbage pile-on will continue, logic be damned ...
"If only GoL was gone!"
Might as well re-write it ...
"If only (enter next UCF HC) was gone!"
"Everything would be better. The daisies would rise up, the skittles would be raining from the bow, and Disney's Fantasyland would become real!"
To me ... it's like watching a bunch of kids running off to "Tomorrowland," not realizing it's just retro '50s sci-fi today. Likewise, I just see a lot of Coach K like experiences, including in recruiting. Some games that become a shootout ... and others where our defense is toasted for 50+ points, regularly. And we put way too much stock into the QB and skill positions, instead of building a stout defense of skill, size and speed.
This was a rebuilding year ... even before the injuries. We had hoped it would not be, but it is, and then some with the injuries now. But we have a lot of talent from some great recruiting classes ... yes, post-Kelly.
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Once again...There are plenty of noobs who will agree with you. But I remember reading all those rankings.
The only time we were close to #1 in C-USA was 2010-2011, and we lost a couple 4-stars in the end, bringing it back way down. But people will re-write history. I won't even bring up the sanctions and the alleged people involved, which was not GoL. It's funny, and sad, how people want to both blame GoL for the sanctions, but laud Kelly. I still think Kelly was innocent, but this is what I mean by "Garbage Men." You pick'n choose, even if conflicting logic.
But the garbage pile-on will continue, logic be damned ...
"If only GoL was gone!"
Might as well re-write it ...
"If only (enter next UCF HC) was gone!"
"Everything would be better. The daisies would rise up, the skittles would be raining from the bow, and Disney's Fantasyland would become real!"
To me ... it's like watching a bunch of kids running off to "Tomorrowland," not realizing it's just retro '50s sci-fi today. Likewise, I just see a lot of Coach K like experiences, including in recruiting. Some games that become a shootout ... and others where our defense is toasted for 50+ points, regularly. And we put way too much stock into the QB and skill positions, instead of building a stout defense of skill, size and speed.
This was a rebuilding year ... even before the injuries. We had hoped it would not be, but it is, and then some with the injuries now. But we have a lot of talent from some great recruiting classes ... yes, post-Kelly.
I'm not doing this, dude. You have never found an argument you can't dispute, no matter how wrong you are. It's just the way you do things.
No biggie.
And once again ...
The negativity has resulted in people assuming all sorts of things, finding a vocal majority to whine with. I've been one of the more vocal people who are just trying to get you stop throwing "Garbage" out and piling it on.
Beyond the fact that you'all can hit the Rivals rankings here, just to add another source, 2014-2015 was one of our greatest and best years ever, resulting a top 50 ESPN (#49). Even 2013-2014 was #52, although part of that was the Fiesta.
The only other time I remember getting such a good class was 2010-2011, closing in a top 40 (both Rivals and ESPN), also with a trio of 4-stars. But it dropped after we lost all our 4-stars (1 left might have been 4-star on Rivals) as a result of the NCAA investigation and Forde calling around that spring.
Yes, 2011-2012 and even 2012-2013 dropped significantly as a result. Again, it's funny to see you guys both lauding Kelly, then turning around and blaming him, for our recruiting classes, and NCAA sanctions. But we've done very well, especially last year. Despite the drop off in results after the Fiesta, we improved!
But you guys don't want to listen. You want to assume. I can take you on a tour of everything you're stretching, and you don't stop. Just how you are. Totally negative, refusing to give anyone credit, bashing some of our top talent, etc... But that's how you guys are ... what losing does.
"We need GoL gone now! Recruiting, the existing players, etc... will get better! We've never recovered since Kelly! But Kelly also ruined us!" etc.., etc..., etc...
- http://insider.espn.go.com/college-sports/football/recruiting/classrankings/_/class/2014/
- http://insider.espn.go.com/college-sports/football/recruiting/classrankings/_/class/2015/
- http://espn.go.com/college-sports/football/recruiting/school/_/id/2116/class/2014
- http://espn.go.com/college-sports/football/recruiting/school/_/id/2116/class/2015
Yet, you insist. You know I haven't read any of your posts, right? Mainly because I don't care.
"We are a defense-oriented, ball-control G5 team that only recruits "UCF type" student-athletes. We've had very good success compared to most of the G5 in that regard. Heck ... look at Navy! Now tell me that type of team doesn't win. They are doing very well in the AAC so far, despite their constraints. Might have a lot to do with their strategy"
You do realize that Navy offense does that because they have 0 athletes, right?
You do realize that Navy offense does that because they have 0 athletes, right?
^^^ This! Thank you!
Modern social media ... because whenever you don't like facts, there is a vocal majority to find that will agree with you! Just like those in a fanbase who go beyond just hating losing ... but throw out and pile-on all sorts of "Garbage" that everything is what they say it is, and it could have been avoided by just firing allegedly -- no, absolutely, verified, truth -- bad coaches and not recruiting allegedly -- no, absolutely, verified, truth -- crappy kids.
Sigh ... thank you for finally admitting it!
So pissing on the program and team is what I should do too? Bah! That's exactly why you're not reading what I post. Because I refuse to throw out "Garbage" and piss on the program, the kids, whomever isn't producing.
^^^ This!
You get exactly the rebuttle you didn't expect, and that's how this goes. All you can do is wave your hands like you're a Jedi, and hope others jump on me. I'm sure some will.
But those who read it saw it. You're just another person the silent majority of those people around the program that do talk to me will note as negative, with nothing to back it up.
BS - you want to talk facts? Here are some facts that nobody can dispute.
* We didn't use all our schollies last few years, even with the schollie penalty
* We didn't use all our official visit allotment
So trying to use schollie penalties as an argument for weak recruiting is complete bunk and very weak.
and my own 'fact':
* This year's recruiting has under performed so far. However, I am holding out hope that GOL gonna get things going. This staff always seems to perform well when the back is against the wall. Let's hope for more of that. All we can do as fans is keep the heat on and support the program in the meantime.
* We didn't use all our schollies last few years, even with the schollie penalty
* We didn't use all our official visit allotment
So trying to use schollie penalties as an argument for weak recruiting is complete bunk and very weak.
and my own 'fact':
* This year's recruiting has under performed so far. However, I am holding out hope that GOL gonna get things going. This staff always seems to perform well when the back is against the wall. Let's hope for more of that. All we can do as fans is keep the heat on and support the program in the meantime.
Ummm ... a lot of people were bitching in 2013 and 2014 as well ... especially 2014. I heard how our recruiting was now into crap, because GoL didn't retire after the Fiesta Bowl.
We'll see. Again, we'll see.
If you guys are right, you're going to jump all over me. I accept that. Except the fact is ... I actually want to see it happen. That's the thing.
Even in 2013 ... heck, back in 2007 ... you guys were talking all about trashing USF too, when I was pointing out we had ECU before USF. I was sitting there, saying, "Let's not get ahead of ourselves."
So, now ... losing ... I'm not getting ahead of myself on GoL, recruiting, etc...
Just like I didn't get ahead of myself on winning, BCS, etc... in 2007 ... or 2013.
I didn't think we were going to the BCS game in 2013 because we had never gone undefeated in conference.
I was wrong about that, although we sure had 3 very close games that shouldn't have been.
Now ... I'm more than willing to be wrong this year.
Because ... I'm willing to actually wait for it to happen.
But you guys go ahead ... complain about things before they happen.
You were making fun of me in 2007 and even 2013 as well too.
It's useless, dude, BS will come up with something to disprove anything you say, no matter how correct you are.
Correct = pat-on-the-back.
A lot of you guys wanted GoL gone after 2004. You got the Yo-Yos and Hitt was willing to deal with them, because GoL ran the program a lot cleaner than Coach K. You hated any of us who agreed with that. Those of us that appreciated what Orsini was trying to clean up ... even if we strongly disagreed with hiring GoL in the first place (I surely did).
And now you've gotten 3 straight, great seasons ... 4 out of 5 ... even 5 out of 6 if you look at 2009 in a positive light. That just burns you guys up. Now 2015 is your wet dream, and you want to do anything you can to get everyone to forget the last 5-6 years.
And now you're even going back to 2004. That wasn't GoL's team. It wasn't his recruiting. That's just pathetic that you guys keep trying to say GoL this, GoL that ... and there's so much that just goes against that.
But keep the back pats keep coming ... losing = negativity, and anyone who doesn't want to join the on-a-whim hate of that horrendous coaching staff, those pathetic recruits, etc... should be damned. GoL could very much be gone mid next year, but that doesn't mean everything prior to 2016 was bad, far from it ... but you won't let anyone remember. Especially if some of his alleged "bad recruits" finish off 2016 good, and, now as Juniors (and RS Juniors) -- all those recruits from 2013-2014 and 2014-2015 -- pull another 10 win season in 2017.
You'll just be "right" ... it was getting rid of GoL that did it all. Yep. And UCFBS is an idiot, despite him saying this. You will forget, just like before.
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BS - all good man. We both want the same thing. Your posts provide some nice balance to the overwhelming negative sentiment. Keep it coming.
I hope there is enough visibility to the recruiting problem right now. Kirk was the last good recruiter we have and he took off . GOL didn't back fill him and now we got nobody. All we can do as fans is keep the heat on the administration and try to get things moving in the right direction.
I hope there is enough visibility to the recruiting problem right now. Kirk was the last good recruiter we have and he took off . GOL didn't back fill him and now we got nobody. All we can do as fans is keep the heat on the administration and try to get things moving in the right direction.
See what I mean?Correct = pat-on-the-back.
A lot of you guys wanted GoL gone after 2004. You got the Yo-Yos and Hitt was willing to deal with them, because GoL ran the program a lot cleaner than Coach K. You hated any of us who agreed with that, and appreciated what Orsini was trying to clean up.
And then you got 3 straight, great seasons ... 4 out of 5 ... even 5 out of 6 if you look at 2009 in a positive light. That just burns you guys up. Now 2015 is your wet dream, and you want to do anything you can to get everyone to forget the last 5-6 years.
And now you're going back to 2004. That wasn't GoL's team. It wasn't his recruiting. That's just pathetic that you guys keep trying to say GoL this, GoL that ... and there's so much that just goes against that.
But keep the back pats coming. GoL could be gone mid next year, but that doesn't mean everything prior to 2016 was bad, far from it. Especially if some of his alleged "bad recruits" finish off 2016 good, and the Juniors pull another 10 win season in 2017.
You were "right" ... it was getting rid of GoL that did it all. Yep.
Okay, fair enough. I honestly appreciate the recognition.
As I said ... we'll see. I fully expect some hits due to the results on-the-field. But if it drops too far, then yes, we would need new blood.
As I said, we start like this next year, and no one will be arguing for the current program to remain unchanged.
