Yep it will show it is a sham trial, kind of like the no hear from whistle blower did on house impeachment.
Impeachment Thread: Trump retaliating at anyone who wasn't willing to commit criminal obstruction
- Thread starter fried-chicken
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Yep it will show it is a sham trial, kind of like the no hear from whistle blower did on house impeachment.
That's exactly the kind of red herring 'whistleblower' argument that's going to bite the Republicans in the butt.
Everybody sees through their smokescreens. But when your guy has been caught red-handed and has zero defense for the articles of impeachment that will be brought against him, you play these kinds of games and pray the public doesn't notice.
Given the gutlessness we've seen from the Senate's GOP members, Trump will, in all likelihood, survive the farce of a 'trial' the Senate will unveil next year. But it will come at a price. They will no doubt pay for it at the ballot box next fall. The American people may be divided, but they're not stupid.
um, cocaine mitch will be able to do whatever the hell he wants. he gets to set the rules.
you may be right. the gop might want it over and done with. but im pretty sure trump is a petty man. i wouldnt be surpised to see them go after the dems hard.
Except for the MAGA Diehards, everybody knows Trump did it.
So in what Bizarro World would going after the Dems hard help the GOP in any way, shape, or form?
He can set the rules, but he doesn't control the public perception of those rules. And keep in mind, Mitch is from a Red state whose Republican Governor, who tied himself to Trump as much as he could, just got beat. You can be sure that Mitch, and Republicans in general, took note of that and realize a potential backlash to Trump is by no means far fetched. Any sort of circus trial could easily backfire on them.
oh it could back fire. but the economy is doing well. unless there is a smoking gun, nothings going to happen. i think some polls showing support for impeachment in swing states dropping. not to mention support for trump with blacks and latinos is slowly climbing. 2020 is going to be great
Its so funny to see how hard you shill for Trump when the man has done nothing for you. Can you name one significant way he's improved your life at all?
I just don't understand why you think a circus atmosphere would help Republicans. If everything is going great, then why not be professional and quick about it?
Wayne is just fantasizing about republicans owning the dems in some 200iq political master play. He roots for the GOP like its UCF, it doesn't matter what evidence he sees he'll never believe that his team did anything wrong. For him its all about getting that W but he doesn't even know why he cares, its not like he has personal gained from any Trump policy. He just wants his team to win.
Partly because public perception has already turned against impeachment. McConnell, for as pathetic as he is, is a savvy politician. If he sees the opportunity to villianize democrats with anything he will take advantage of it. Will it all be relevant to the impeachment process? Nope. Will it affect the electorate? Absolutely. People are already burned out over the house hearings and if McConnell has the opportunity to flip the political script he absolutely will.
First off let me just say, I dont think you are correct in how McConnell will handle it. I think it will be a short process. ANd if people are burnt out on it as you say, I dont understand why prolonging it wouldnt just burn even more people out on it. Secondly, I dont think public perception has turned against impeachment. It seems divided for sure, but it was always divided. I am not sure where you are getting the idea that the public has turned on it.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...t-just-like-they-were-before-public-hearings/
Since September until the present, it has basically been in the mid 40s both for and against overall. And with independents it is right about the same with 42% approving and 44% disapproving.
trump did something for me. while my paycheck remained the same, my take home pay increased. i keep more of the money i earn every day at work and less goes to the government.
in fact, trump did that for you as well. it has helped improve my life. i know it likely helped improve yours, but im sure you will lie and claim it didnt.
you dont see dragging the democrats through the mud right before a very important election as helpful to the republicans?
Yeah. And for every dollar I got my share of the national debt increased by more than a dollar because the wealthy got a disproportionately bigger cut. How exciting for me!
"Dragging the democrats through the mud" during a Senate trial intended to determine whether or not to remove Trump from office is helpful to...the republicans? On what planet?
If the Senate decides to play games with subpoenas for Hunter Biden and Adam Schiff to strike back at those House Democrats instead of calling key witnesses such as Sondlund, Pompeo, Perry, and Guliani, the people will see through this stunt. The American people aren't stupid.
then why do you advocate for more democrats who want to add even more debt? most republicans do too, but at least there are several out there that are against it. i havent seen any democrats against spending.
if trump gets elected again, well see if he keeps the spending up or if he makes some changes.
Hunter Biden likely does not need to be called in. It is Daddy who used aid money as a weapon to get prosecutor fired who was looking into company H. Biden worked for. A daddy may well have used the power of Federal Gov't to protect son should be questioned under oath. If Biden does not wish to do so, he can claim the fifth.
Technically incorrect. Burisma was under investigation by the prior prosecutor general, and Shokin's deputy Vitaly Kasko actually resigned because he claims Shokin did no thing to investigate Burisma during his time there.
The crazy thing about this stupid line of defense is that the corrupt Ukraine prosecutor that Biden wanted fired was PROTECTING the corrupt, big cigar Ukrainians who were running companies like Burisma for crying out loud!!!
You people would have a better argument if Joe Biden had stood up to everybody else in the world by encouraging the then-President of Ukraine to KEEP THE GUY. Since Hunter worked for Burisma, wouldn't that have been the play?
Our intelligence community has been over this matter a thousand-times and found NO wrong-doing. This has always been nothing more than a red herring "whattabout" in an effort to minimize Trump's corruption.
Please provide citation that shokin was corrupt. Inept maybe. Overwhelmed likely. Corrupt no. To my knowledge there have been no claims that he was corrupt. The good guy that replaced him is vastly more questionable, although his responses to questions bring up an awful lot of questions about whether he was being pressured.
If Shokin wasn’t corrupt, he sure did a good job of acting the part. I’m not sure how you explain a few of his prosecutors getting caught with stolen diamonds and jewels and why a couple prosecutors who were going to prosecute them subsequently got fired by Shokin. Kind of corrupt-looking, don’t you think?
It will play to his base but his based isnt who Republicans need to win over, they arent going anywhere. It is the moderate independents they need to maintain. But also, whe you say dragging Democrats through the mud, you are acting if as Democrats wil have no say in the hearings. They will, and trying to dragging them through the mud could easily backfire. I think a dog and pony show could easily portray the Repubicans as nothing more than partisan hacks.
BTW, I heard last night that Mitch doesnt even want a trial. He was hoping there would be enough Republican votes from the outset to just vote and end it almost immedidately, but that doesnt seem likely. If this is the case, then I cant possibly see him thinking a long process would be helpful.
YOu also have to consider, that a lot of Republican senate seats are up for election next year. Including AZ, who just lost a Republican seat in 2018, Alabama, who could easily go back Republican if they dont screw it up, Colorado which could be a tight race for the Republican incumbent, Maine, Iowa, etc. Most of the Dem seats up appear to be pretty safe seats, it is the Republicans who likely have the most to lose in the Senate. I highly doubt McConnell is wanting the Senate to come across as unprofessional and risk turning off voters in some of these states.
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New polls confirm that voters view this as a giant waste of time and impeachment will be an issue for vulnerable Dems running in swing districts
I think it’s great. They’re demonstrating how useless they are as an actual governing party and making it clear as day that they intended to accomplish nothing of value beyond fulfilling the wishes of their most far left masters who dictate what Democrats do in 2019
I think it’s great. They’re demonstrating how useless they are as an actual governing party and making it clear as day that they intended to accomplish nothing of value beyond fulfilling the wishes of their most far left masters who dictate what Democrats do in 2019
So Presidents can just play the 'executive privilege' card and instruct their staffs to ignore Congressional subpoenas? Certainly no obstruction there.
Yes, they can, and every one of the last 9 presidents did it. Every time it has been challenged in court it has been reaffirmed.So Presidents can just play the 'executive privilege' card and instruct their staffs to ignore Congressional subpoenas? Certainly no obstruction there.
They can't have blanket privilege. That's the difference. Trump says that anything and everything is not reviewable by Congress. That means he is accountable to no one.
Congress has the ability to go to the court and compel witnesses, including trump staff and advisors. They didn't do that.
- encouraging Lewinsky to file a false affidavit
- encouraging Lewinsky to give false testimony if and when she was called to testify
- concealing gifts he had given to Lewinsky that had been subpoenaed
- attempting to secure a job for Lewinsky to influence her testimony
- permitting his lawyer to make false statements characterizing Lewinsky's affidavit
- attempting to tamper with the possible testimony of his secretary Betty Currie
- making false and misleading statements to potential grand jury witnesses
Look through that list. That's what they impeached Clinton for with regards to obstruction.
Permitting his lawyer to make false statements about witness testimony. Trumps done that.
Making false and misleading statements to witnesses. Trump's done that.
Attempting to tamper with testimony. Trump's done that.
Encouraging witnesses to lie. Trump's done that.
Now let's look at Nixon's obstruction:
Richard M. Nixon, using the powers of his high office, engaged personally and through his close subordinates and agents, in a course of conduct or plan designed to delay, impede, and obstruct the investigation of such illegal entry; to cover up, conceal and protect those responsible; and to conceal the existence and scope of other unlawful covert activities.
Yep. Spot on.
Now let's look at another Nixon article of impeachment:
...[Nixon] has failed without lawful cause or excuse to produce papers and things as directed by duly authorized subpoenas issued by the Committee on the Judiciary of the House of Representatives on April 11, 1974, May 15, 1974, May 30, 1974, and June 24, 1974, and willfully disobeyed such subpoenas. The subpoenaed papers and things were deemed necessary by the Committee in order to resolve by direct evidence fundamental, factual questions relating to Presidential direction, knowledge or approval of actions demonstrated by other evidence to be substantial grounds for impeachment of the President. In refusing to produce these papers and things Richard M. Nixon, substituting his judgment as to what materials were necessary for the inquiry, interposed the powers of the Presidency against the lawful subpoenas of the House of Representatives, thereby assuming to himself functions and judgments necessary to the exercise of the sole power of impeachment vested by the Constitution in the House of Representatives.[161]
Yep.
Separation of powers?
Checks and balances?
Naaaaa. Let's go with total coordination.
They are definitely once again proving how useless they are but I say vote and impeach him already.... I look forward to the senate trial and hope they go balls out and subpoena everyyyyyone
lol Exhibit 1,200 as to what a partisan sham this all is. Nadler had everyone ready to vote last night around 11 pm then abruptly refused to vote and went home for the night, wasting everyone's time, all so he could assure that he could grandstand and have the vote during the day when more eyeballs are watching TV.
Pathetic. Collins correctly ripped Nadler for this continued partisan debacle.
“This is why people don’t like us,” he said. “This crap like this is why people are having such a terrible opinion of Congress. What Chairman Nadler just did, and his staff, and the rest of the majority who sat there quietly and said nothing, this is why they don’t like us. They know it’s all about games. It’s all about the TV screens. They want the primetime hit. This is Speaker Pelosi and Adam Schiff and the others directing this committee. I don’t have a chairman anymore. I guess I need to just go straight to Ms. Pelosi and say, what TV hit does this committee need to do? This committee has lost all relevance. I’ll see y’all tomorrow.”
Pathetic. Collins correctly ripped Nadler for this continued partisan debacle.
“This is why people don’t like us,” he said. “This crap like this is why people are having such a terrible opinion of Congress. What Chairman Nadler just did, and his staff, and the rest of the majority who sat there quietly and said nothing, this is why they don’t like us. They know it’s all about games. It’s all about the TV screens. They want the primetime hit. This is Speaker Pelosi and Adam Schiff and the others directing this committee. I don’t have a chairman anymore. I guess I need to just go straight to Ms. Pelosi and say, what TV hit does this committee need to do? This committee has lost all relevance. I’ll see y’all tomorrow.”
I don't know how to prove Shokin is corrupt, but you can read media article writtens contemporaneously and see what the belief was outside Ukraine.
New Government Same Corruption - Aljazeera article from 2015
US Officials criticize Ukraine's Prosecutors for failure of reforms - 2015
Corruption in Ukraine is so bad, a Nigerian Prince would be embarrassed - 2015
EU Reform in Ukraine: Prosecuting the Prosecutor - 2015
"Shokin also caused scandals by trying to quash anti-corruption probes into his clan."
"The Shokin machine is part of a bigger, and equally ugly, picture."
This is where the argument fundamentally falls apart. Pushing for the firing of a prosecutor that is universally considered too weak on corruption, so that the US can push for installing a prosecutor who is tougher on corruption, just doesn't align with the idea that Biden was acting corruptly to protect Burisma."The Shokin machine is part of a bigger, and equally ugly, picture."
Separation of powers?
Checks and balances?
Naaaaa. Let's go with total coordination.
I dont think you understand what those terms mean. Last I checked, you were mad that Trump invoked executive privilege which is a perfect example of separation of power.
That being said, Mitch painted both he and Trump into a corner by saying that. If they call no witnesses and just take a vote, it will give the appearance that Trump doesnt want his people to testify and that looks really, really bad. On the flip side, if this becomes a long drawn out trial people will get tired of it, and it will make Mitch look like a toady for an egomaniac who loves attention.
I think he was simply saying that he won't let the Senate become a pathetic kangaroo court like the House was.
Stuff like not allowing Trump cabinet members to have representation so it appears they are obstructing congress because Congress loves process perjury?
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