Impeachment Thread: Trump retaliating at anyone who wasn't willing to commit criminal obstruction

[Boosted87]

Abuse of power.

Obstruction of Congress.

I can see how the dems will impeach on abuse of power, but obstruction on Congress is laughable. How many supreme court cases have established executive privilege?

"The supreme court has never addressed executive privilege in the face of a congressional demand for information." (thiis a good read from SCOTUS blog).

The first and ONLY Supreme Court ruling to recognize any type of executive privilege was US vs Nixon. It did so narrowly, acknowledging a limited executive privilege while ruling against Nixon's claims of absolute privilege. This was not a demand of Congress but a demand from a special prosecutor. There's a couple of other cases ruled on by lower courts that sharpened the definition that SCOTUS did not take up. Those decisions outline things a bit better, and absolutely give the White House a basis for which to base their privilege claims.

But here's the problem - They aren't invoking executive privilege. They've invented something else all together. Pat Cipilone's letter to congress said that the administration would simply choose not to participate, would allow no one to testify, and would provide no documents. That is completely out of line with any court precedent.

 

[DaShuckster]

lol Exhibit 1,200 as to what a partisan sham this all is. Nadler had everyone ready to vote last night around 11 pm then abruptly refused to vote and went home for the night

Yeah, the nerve of Chairman Nadler to postpone to the next morning. What a partisan sham!!!

 

[fried-chicken]

Yeah, the nerve of Chairman Nadler to postpone to the next morning. What a partisan sham!!!

He postponed a vote?! Wow. Its a good thing we Trump to guide us through the next 9 years. Trumps the only one that cares about our laws.

 

[UCFKnight85]

Yeah, the nerve of Chairman Nadler to postpone to the next morning. What a partisan sham!!!

Then why did he do it, nitwit?

 

[DaShuckster]

Then why did he do it, nitwit?

Gee, that's a real toughie.

Maybe, just maybe, after a marathon session that stretched more than 14 hours, he decided around 11 PM that the hearing should end for the day and reconvene at 10 AM the next morning. Pretty crazy, huh?

 

[UCFKnight85]

Gee, that's a real toughie.

Maybe, just maybe, after a marathon session that stretched more than 14 hours, he decided around 11 PM that the hearing should end for the day and reconvene at 10 AM the next morning. Pretty crazy, huh?

A vote that takes one minute was simply too much to finish with?

Jesus you’re a master of bullshit

 

[Crazyhole]

A vote that takes one minute was simply too much to finish with?

Jesus you’re a master of bullshit

The vote takes at least an hour.

 

[UCFKnight85]

Jewish Deplorable (@TrumpJew) Tweeted:
MUST WATCH:

Dem Rep. Collin Peterson will vote against impeachment

He says “it’s all second-hand information” and Trump “has not committed a crime” https://t.co/si3d5S3Efr

 

[DaShuckster]

He says “it’s all second-hand information” and Trump “has not committed a crime”

Since Ambassador Sondland told the House Intelligence Committee that Trump told him to follow Guiliani's lead and added that this was far from a 'lone wolf' operation -- that Mulvaney, Pompeo, and Perry were all 'in the loop,' it should be easy to finally get to the bottom of this once and for all when the Senate subpoenas those four to testify under oath.

Whatever your politics, you've got to admire our country's core values of truth and justice, right?

 

[UCFWayne]

via facebook group unbiased america @fried-chicken
(K.R.) BREAKING NEWS: FISA COURT ISSUES SCATHING REBUKE OF FBI FOR ITS HANDLING OF THE RUSSIA INVESTIGATION, SAYING IT WAS MISLED INTO APPROVING SURVEILLANCE WARRANTS

The FISA court today accused FBI agents of creating a misleading impression about their basis for requesting warrants against the Trump administration. The court today issued a rare public order rebuking the FBI for its handling of the warrant applications during the 2016 campaign.

In a blistering order, the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (FISC), which normally operates in near total secret, accused the bureau of providing false information and withholding other information that would have undercut their case for four surveillance applications. The order comes after the Justice Department’s Inspector General found serious lapses in the FBI’s handling of warrants against then-campaign advisor Carter Page.

Judge Rosemary Collyer said that the OIG report documented “troubling instances in which FBI personnel provided information to (the Justice Department) which was unsupported or contradicted by information in their possession.”

The judge also noted the report cited “several instances” in which the FBI sought to persuade the court that probable cause existed to believe Page was a Russian agent, but nonetheless withheld “information in their possession which was detrimental to their case.”

"The frequency with which representations made by FBI personnel turned out to be unsupported or contradicted by information in their possession, and with which they withheld information detrimental to their case, calls into question whether information contained in other FBI applications is reliable," Collyer wrote.

"The FISC expects the government to provide complete and accurate information in every filing with the Court. Without it, the FISC cannot properly ensure that the government conducts electronic surveillance for foreign intelligence purposes only when there is a sufficient factual basis."

The court ordered the government to explain to the court by January 10th what steps it was taking to prevent such lapses in the future.

SOURCES:
https://thehill.com/policy/national...ses-fbi-agents-of-giving-misleading-basis-for
https://www.wsj.com/articles/secret...ing-of-surveillance-of-trump-aide-11576615299

 

[UCFKnight85]

via facebook group unbiased america @fried-chicken
(K.R.) BREAKING NEWS: FISA COURT ISSUES SCATHING REBUKE OF FBI FOR ITS HANDLING OF THE RUSSIA INVESTIGATION, SAYING IT WAS MISLED INTO APPROVING SURVEILLANCE WARRANTS

The FISA court today accused FBI agents of creating a misleading impression about their basis for requesting warrants against the Trump administration. The court today issued a rare public order rebuking the FBI for its handling of the warrant applications during the 2016 campaign.

In a blistering order, the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (FISC), which normally operates in near total secret, accused the bureau of providing false information and withholding other information that would have undercut their case for four surveillance applications. The order comes after the Justice Department’s Inspector General found serious lapses in the FBI’s handling of warrants against then-campaign advisor Carter Page.

Judge Rosemary Collyer said that the OIG report documented “troubling instances in which FBI personnel provided information to (the Justice Department) which was unsupported or contradicted by information in their possession.”

The judge also noted the report cited “several instances” in which the FBI sought to persuade the court that probable cause existed to believe Page was a Russian agent, but nonetheless withheld “information in their possession which was detrimental to their case.”

"The frequency with which representations made by FBI personnel turned out to be unsupported or contradicted by information in their possession, and with which they withheld information detrimental to their case, calls into question whether information contained in other FBI applications is reliable," Collyer wrote.

"The FISC expects the government to provide complete and accurate information in every filing with the Court. Without it, the FISC cannot properly ensure that the government conducts electronic surveillance for foreign intelligence purposes only when there is a sufficient factual basis."

The court ordered the government to explain to the court by January 10th what steps it was taking to prevent such lapses in the future.

SOURCES:
https://thehill.com/policy/national...ses-fbi-agents-of-giving-misleading-basis-for
https://www.wsj.com/articles/secret...ing-of-surveillance-of-trump-aide-11576615299

Just a reminder that Adam Schiff again lied to the public, citing information he had access to, when he swore up and down that the Nunes memo on this subject was wrong and that there were no FISA issues and that it was all a vast right wing conspiracy.

Adam Schiff has used his position to falsely insist he has information on national TV interviews for the past 4 years. He is an absolute cretin and yet he just ran the sham DNC impeachment debacle in the House.

 

[fried-chicken]

IG found no political bias or motivation in starting of the investigation and then was fired by Barr for his findings.

 

[fried-chicken]

You know who didn't get impeached? Obama.

 

[UCFWayne]

IG found no political bias or motivation in starting of the investigation and then was fired by Barr for his findings.

i wonder why the fisa court is speaking out right now? why would the conclusion be there was no political bias when the evidence suggests otherwise? could it be related to the guy that wrote it is biased? nah, couldnt be....

 

[fried-chicken]

i wonder why the fisa court is speaking out right now? why would the conclusion be there was no political bias when the evidence suggests otherwise? could it be related to the guy that wrote it is biased? nah, couldnt be....

Could it be that Barr is biased? Nah, couldn't be....

 

[NinjaKnight]

Could it be that Barr is biased? Nah, couldn't be....

I love how you have to explain brain dead level shit like this.

 

[UCFWayne]

Could it be that Barr is biased? Nah, couldn't be....

the fisa court found so many problems they want to know what the fbi is now going to do to fix it before they can be trusted again. but nah, nothing to see here.

honestly, i think the fisa court should be done away with

 

[Crazyhole]

the fisa court found so many problems they want to know what the fbi is now going to do to fix it before they can be trusted again. but nah, nothing to see here.

honestly, i think the fisa court should be done away with

The amazing thing is that nobody will be fired over it. Trump can be voted out. FBI officials who lied to smear a politician and used our own system will just keep their jobs and nothing will change.

And somehow the deep state is just a conspiracy theory

 

[DaShuckster]

Before the Mueller Report came out, AG Barr issues a memo saying 'no harm, no foul.' The MAGA Hats proclaim "Trump's totally exonerated!!!" and ignore the actual report.

Then Justice Department's Inspector General comes out with its report which found no political bias or improper motivation by the DOJ or the FBI. The Red Hats ignore this and point to the errors uncovered and proclaim "Heads should roll!!!"

Funny how this works.

 

[Crazyhole]

Before the Mueller Report came out, AG Barr issues a memo saying 'no harm, no foul.' The MAGA Hats proclaim "Trump's totally exonerated!!!" and ignore the actual report.

Then Justice Department's Inspector General comes out with its report which found no political bias or improper motivation by the DOJ or the FBI. The Red Hats ignore this and point to the errors uncovered and proclaim "Heads should roll!!!"

Funny how this works.

Explain how the FBI and DOJ make 17 mistakes that all move in the direction of surveilling the Trump campaign without motivation? 1 or 2 could be written off as mistakes but 17? Including forging documents that reversed the narrative.

When the FISA court publicly rebukes the FBI, isn't it obvious that something fishy was going on?

 

[Boosted87]

Before the Mueller Report came out, AG Barr issues a memo saying 'no harm, no foul.' The MAGA Hats proclaim "Trump's totally exonerated!!!" and ignore the actual report.

Then Justice Department's Inspector General comes out with its report which found no political bias or improper motivation by the DOJ or the FBI. The Red Hats ignore this and point to the errors uncovered and proclaim "Heads should roll!!!"

Funny how this works.

I absolutely hate how the FBI is being politicized and undermined. I wish everyone realized that this is all part of Dictator 101. Undermine the institutions so that average citizens don't know who to trust anymore. The Press is the enemy of the people. The FBI is the Deep State. A constitutionally defined process for checking a President is a coup.

Trump doesn't need to be the dictator in the scenario. The amount of undermining he's done in 3 years is going to last decades. He's laid the blueprint for how a populist demagogue gets into power and weakens institutions.

 

[DaShuckster]

Explain how the FBI and DOJ make 17 mistakes that all move in the direction of surveilling the Trump campaign without motivation?

I don't recall you expressing the same righteous indignation over the Trump "mistakes" outlined in the Mueller Report. I could have sworn the word here was Trump was totally exonerated.

 

[UCFKnight85]

I don't recall you expressing the same righteous indignation over the Trump "mistakes" outlined in the Mueller Report. I could have sworn the word here was Trump was totally exonerated.

No, the word was that there was deep collusion since Adam Schiff went on TV and lied about this at every opportunity.

 

[UCFKnight85]

I absolutely hate how the FBI is being politicized and undermined. I wish everyone realized that this is all part of Dictator 101. Undermine the institutions so that average citizens don't know who to trust anymore. The Press is the enemy of the people. The FBI is the Deep State. A constitutionally defined process for checking a President is a coup.

Trump doesn't need to be the dictator in the scenario. The amount of undermining he's done in 3 years is going to last decades. He's laid the blueprint for how a populist demagogue gets into power and weakens institutions.

Nah, he's really just outed who amongst us will act like a lunatic and invent conspiracy theories about dictators when they really don't like the President.

 

[Crazyhole]

I don't recall you expressing the same righteous indignation over the Trump "mistakes" outlined in the Mueller Report. I could have sworn the word here was Trump was totally exonerated.

I'm pretty sure that you are the only one who has used the word "exonerated". Combine the Mueller report and the IG report and tell me who was in the wrong? Mueller led to criminal charges like tax evasion and failing to register as a foreign agent. Not exactly the kind of stuff that corroborated the idea of russian collusion. Otoh, we have the IG report and the FISA court judge pointing out CORRUPTION.

 

[Crazyhole]

I absolutely hate how the FBI is being politicized and undermined. I wish everyone realized that this is all part of Dictator 101. Undermine the institutions so that average citizens don't know who to trust anymore. The Press is the enemy of the people. The FBI is the Deep State. A constitutionally defined process for checking a President is a coup.

Trump doesn't need to be the dictator in the scenario. The amount of undermining he's done in 3 years is going to last decades. He's laid the blueprint for how a populist demagogue gets into power and weakens institutions.

Take a few steps back here. The FBI has proven itself to be an entity that should be questioned, and Comey admitted to its failures in seeking justice. 8 years ago the AG office proved that we should question them about their intent when Fast and Furious happened. 17 years ago the State dept proved that we should question their intent with the Iraq WMD deal. Trump didn't set this in motion, the bureaucracy did.

 

[Boosted87]

Take a few steps back here. The FBI has proven itself to be an entity that should be questioned, and Comey admitted to its failures in seeking justice. 8 years ago the AG office proved that we should question them about their intent when Fast and Furious happened. 17 years ago the State dept proved that we should question their intent with the Iraq WMD deal. Trump didn't set this in motion, the bureaucracy did.

"Trust but verify" - right? Human institutions will always be flawed. That's never going to change, and the FBI has plenty of corruption and political action in it's past for sure. Look how guys like Comey, McCabe, Baker, etc have handled the IG report. They welcomed the investigation, praised Horowitz, and while they've defended their personal actions, they acknowledge the validity of the findings. They didn't accuse Horowitz of conducting a treasonous witch hunt.

Here's what worries me. Do I want a politically biased FBI? Absolutely not. Do I want an FBI that's scared to tackle a politically volatile investigation when national security might be at stake? Absolutely not. But it's like our conversations about Ukraine. "Good" actors sometimes do "grey" things to survive. If you were a mid-level official in the FBI today with aspirations to advance and work another 20+ years, and you were faced with evidence of wrongdoing by POTUS or someone close to him, would your next step be impacted by how Trump had treated your previous superiors? Would you risk being the next official accused of Treason by POTUS, virtually ensuring the end of your FBI career?

 

[UCFKnight85]

"Trust but verify" - right? Human institutions will always be flawed. That's never going to change, and the FBI has plenty of corruption and political action in it's past for sure. Look how guys like Comey, McCabe, Baker, etc have handled the IG report. They welcomed the investigation, praised Horowitz, and while they've defended their personal actions, they acknowledge the validity of the findings. They didn't accuse Horowitz of conducting a treasonous witch hunt.

Here's what worries me. Do I want a politically biased FBI? Absolutely not. Do I want an FBI that's scared to tackle a politically volatile investigation when national security might be at stake? Absolutely not. But it's like our conversations about Ukraine. "Good" actors sometimes do "grey" things to survive. If you were a mid-level official in the FBI today with aspirations to advance and work another 20+ years, and you were faced with evidence of wrongdoing by POTUS or someone close to him, would your next step be impacted by how Trump had treated your previous superiors? Would you risk being the next official accused of Treason by POTUS, virtually ensuring the end of your FBI career?

How about this? I don’t think it’s too much to ask that thE FBI not use Kremlin produced disinformation to obtain FISA warrants. I also don’t think they should be taking Russian disinformation when it was given to them by a Presidential candidate’s opposition campaign, and then refusing to disclose to the FISA court that 1) the info came from a political campaign and 2) they can’t verify anything contained in the report.

But meh, can’t criticize the FBI and stuff

 

[Cubs79]

Take a few steps back here. The FBI has proven itself to be an entity that should be questioned, and Comey admitted to its failures in seeking justice. 8 years ago the AG office proved that we should question them about their intent when Fast and Furious happened. 17 years ago the State dept proved that we should question their intent with the Iraq WMD deal. Trump didn't set this in motion, the bureaucracy did.

You can question people and situations in our government all the way back to the founders, so obviously Trump didn't set this in motion, and I don't think anyone would argue that he did. But, there does seem to be a loyalty to Trump to a degree that other presidents didn't have. No other president has essentially had his own morning show, which Trump has with Fox and Friends. No other president could have shutdown press briefings the way Trump has without a really negative response. If a Democrat didn't share their tax returns, Republicans would eat them alive. If another president was fined for running a fraudulent charity, can you imagine the outcry? So yeah, I 100% agree that you can question and find wrongdoing throughout our governments history in various forms, but I cant imagine a lot of these things just being "ho hummed" with most other presidents. Obama certainly couldn't have gotten away with most of this stuff.

 

[Boosted87]

Nah, he's really just outed who amongst us will act like a lunatic and invent conspiracy theories about dictators when they really don't like the President.

Cool I'm gonna go invent some more conspiracy theories: Obama was born in Kenya. Global warming is a hoax created by the Chinese. Ted Cruise's dad was involved in the Kennedy assassination. Seth Rich was murdered by democrats. There's a super secret "server" hidden in Ukraine somewhere. That Obama wire tapped Trump Tower. Vaccines cause autism. Millions of illegal aliens voted in 2016. Asbestos dangers are a con created by the mob.

Oh wait - what's that? Somebody already beat me to all of these lunatic conspiracy theories? I guess I'll just stick with my grounded and legitimate concerns about Trump based on his own words and actions.

 

[Boosted87]

How about this? I don’t think it’s too much to ask that thE FBI not use Kremlin produced disinformation to obtain FISA warrants. I also don’t think they should be taking Russian disinformation when it was given to them by a Presidential candidate’s opposition campaign, and then refusing to disclose to the FISA court that 1) the info came from a political campaign and 2) they can’t verify anything contained in the report.

But meh, can’t criticize the FBI and stuff

This is seriously my favorite post I've seen you make. That's all 100% legitimate concern. But who's saying you can't criticize the FBI?

 

[NinjaKnight]

Never forget 18 Dec 2019: The day America witnessed the next Pearl Harbor, Salem Witch Trials, and crucification of Jesus all at the same time. At least according to the GOP when talking about Trump's impeachment hearings.

Hope we can pull through as a country, but I really don't know.

 

[Crazyhole]

You can question people and situations in our government all the way back to the founders, so obviously Trump didn't set this in motion, and I don't think anyone would argue that he did. But, there does seem to be a loyalty to Trump to a degree that other presidents didn't have. No other president has essentially had his own morning show, which Trump has with Fox and Friends. No other president could have shutdown press briefings the way Trump has without a really negative response. If a Democrat didn't share their tax returns, Republicans would eat them alive. If another president was fined for running a fraudulent charity, can you imagine the outcry? So yeah, I 100% agree that you can question and find wrongdoing throughout our governments history in various forms, but I cant imagine a lot of these things just being "ho hummed" with most other presidents. Obama certainly couldn't have gotten away with most of this stuff.

I can't disagree with most of what you posted because it's totally true, but your focus is solely on Trump. Many past presidents have done equally questionable things. I don't like getting into whataboutisms but when a person holds up a certain president and claims x,y,and z as if they are unprecedented then u, v, w should be accounted for as well. Obama and Bush both far exceeded the level of questionable activity than trump has.

Obama didn't face any serious scrutiny about his college transcripts. Bush didn't face any serious scrutiny about his past drug use. Both were brought up but only the fringes of the political parties really cared much. Obama had most of the media fawning over him, Bush had fox news vehemently defending him no matter what.

None of this is new other than the response from the opposing political party.

 

[Crazyhole]

Cool I'm gonna go invent some more conspiracy theories: Obama was born in Kenya. Global warming is a hoax created by the Chinese. Ted Cruise's dad was involved in the Kennedy assassination. Seth Rich was murdered by democrats. There's a super secret "server" hidden in Ukraine somewhere. That Obama wire tapped Trump Tower. Vaccines cause autism. Millions of illegal aliens voted in 2016. Asbestos dangers are a con created by the mob.

Oh wait - what's that? Somebody already beat me to all of these lunatic conspiracy theories? I guess I'll just stick with my grounded and legitimate concerns about Trump based on his own words and actions.

Well technically the Obama administration did wiretap the Trump campaign. And the asbestos scare is a total joke. Lawyers destroyed that industry thanks to 1 company that lied about the dangers to employees who worked with friable material every day.

 

[Cubs79]

I can't disagree with most of what you posted because it's totally true, but your focus is solely on Trump. Many past presidents have done equally questionable things. I don't like getting into whataboutisms but when a person holds up a certain president and claims x,y,and z as if they are unprecedented then u, v, w should be accounted for as well. Obama and Bush both far exceeded the level of questionable activity than trump has.

Obama didn't face any serious scrutiny about his college transcripts. Bush didn't face any serious scrutiny about his past drug use. Both were brought up but only the fringes of the political parties really cared much. Obama had most of the media fawning over him, Bush had fox news vehemently defending him no matter what.

None of this is new other than the response from the opposing political party.

Why would Obama face scrutiny about his college transcripts? Are you playing into the conspiracy? No presidents face much if any scrutiny about their transcripts. I mean, Trump hasnt released his transcripts. So he hasnt faced scrutiny about his either. But this idea Obama wasnt scrutinized by things is flat out false. Trump himself essentially became a political figure by pushing conspiracy theories about Obama.

Why would Bush's past even be an issue? I am no Bush fan, and he was certainly mocked about his party boy life, but I also dont think most people cared about his past partying days, they cared about his presidency. If he was doing those things in office that would have obviously been another story, but there is no evidence that is the case.

It isnt just the opposing political party. Plenty of Republicans have left the party and/or not ran for re-election due to Trump. It is certainly not just Democrats that have an issue with Trump. I also think dont think you can compare peoples reaction to Trump to peoples reactions to other presidents, because he most certainly doesnt present himself in the same manner. Just one example, but THis is a guy who has also pushed voter fraud conspiracies (with regards to an election he won mind you) without showing a shred of evidence. And I almost guarantee if he loses in November, he will claim voter fraud and many of his Republican boot lickers will agree, even if there is no evidence provided, but that is a different conversation.

I also dont think you can say any former presidents ever tried to push conspiracies with the help of a foreign nation to help their re-election chances. As much as I disliked Bush, I dont remember him calling for foreign nations to investigate John kerry or any other Democrat. I dont remember Obama doing that with Romney.

 

[OregonKnight]

I've never seen more arguing in bad faith than McCarthy and Collins closing remarks. What a bunch of partisan hacks.

(Yes, there plenty of partisan hacks with D next to their name as well)

 

[UCFKnight85]

I've never seen more arguing in bad faith than McCarthy and Collins closing remarks. What a bunch of partisan hacks.

(Yes, there plenty of partisan hacks with D next to their name as well)

And yet you only bitch about the ones with the R next to their name.

 

[Poolside Knight]

I've never seen more arguing in bad faith than McCarthy and Collins closing remarks. What a bunch of partisan hacks.

(Yes, there plenty of partisan hacks with D next to their name as well)

huge gap in intellect and diversity among members. A lot of old white men screaming conspiracy theories that Russian Intelligence loves the last month for the GOP.

 

[Crazyhole]

Why would Obama face scrutiny about his college transcripts? Are you playing into the conspiracy? No presidents face much if any scrutiny about their transcripts. I mean, Trump hasnt released his transcripts. So he hasnt faced scrutiny about his either. But this idea Obama wasnt scrutinized by things is flat out false. Trump himself essentially became a political figure by pushing conspiracy theories about Obama.

Why would Bush's past even be an issue? I am no Bush fan, and he was certainly mocked about his party boy life, but I also dont think most people cared about his past partying days, they cared about his presidency. If he was doing those things in office that would have obviously been another story, but there is no evidence that is the case.

It isnt just the opposing political party. Plenty of Republicans have left the party and/or not ran for re-election due to Trump. It is certainly not just Democrats that have an issue with Trump. I also think dont think you can compare peoples reaction to Trump to peoples reactions to other presidents, because he most certainly doesnt present himself in the same manner. Just one example, but THis is a guy who has also pushed voter fraud conspiracies (with regards to an election he won mind you) without showing a shred of evidence. And I almost guarantee if he loses in November, he will claim voter fraud and many of his Republican boot lickers will agree, even if there is no evidence provided, but that is a different conversation.

I also dont think you can say any former presidents ever tried to push conspiracies with the help of a foreign nation to help their re-election chances. As much as I disliked Bush, I dont remember him calling for foreign nations to investigate John kerry or any other Democrat. I dont remember Obama doing that with Romney.

You're taking my remarks and blowing them out of proportion. Nothing can be gleaned from trunps tax returns just like nothing can be gleaned from Obama's transcripts. Both are ridiculous premises which is why I compared the two.

As far as the latter part of your post, voter fraud conspiracies? We now know that there was a conspiracy to sway the election and it goes both ways but only one way used the power of the US government.

 

[UCFKnight85]

huge gap in intellect and diversity among members. A lot of old white men screaming conspiracy theories that Russian Intelligence loves the last month for the GOP.

Says the guy who voted for the woman who labeled Tulsi Gabbard as a Russian spy

Whose the briandead fool ripe for conspiracy theory?