Is there really a QB controversy??

[sk8knight]

I think you misunderstand what I said. I didn't say Heupel never expected him to play I said, maybe Heupel never expected him to be the starter, as in going into the season with him as the guy. He was brought in with Gabriel still having 3 years of eligibility left. I don't think when we brought him in anyone was saying this guy is for sure the next guy in line after Gabriel even though he turned out to be. QBs get recruited for depth and never play or they have to go elsewhere to play all the time, it's the nature of the sport.

I understand what you’re saying but I don’t think Heupel recruited this kid out of that program in AZ just for depth. Especially with Navarro sitting on the bench already.

About Keene from his old HS coach:

“Well, he’s definitely a guy that can create and throw on the run. He’s probably the best guy I’ve had at doing that, including the guys that played in the Pac 12 and the NFL, and he has that innate ability to make those particular throws.”

But you’d think reading the experts on this board that he absolutely can’t throw on the run and can’t create. I don’t care if he gets the job or not, all I want is a team that wins games, but I do think that we’ll be just fine if he wins the job and all this negativity is unwarranted.

Mikey Keene's Former High School Head Coach Knows What UCF Football Fans Should Expect | Inside the Knights

 

[Gwoz]

So you are saying the original comparison was apples and oranges. I agree. Your statement on supporters is 100% incorrect.

I showed multiple examples of QBs in the same conference on inferior programs to show they too succeeded as true freshman. But somehow Keene circumstances is seen as far more grave and heroic. I didn't even disparage Keene, merely showed other successful true freshman QBs in the last couple seasons.

UCF win/loss is not because of Keene, it was because of the team. The defense only giving up an average of 12 points a game in 7 games probably had a lot to do with it.

 

[SCKnight]

I showed multiple examples of QBs in the same conference on inferior programs to show they too succeeded as true freshman. But somehow Keene circumstances is seen as far more grave and heroic. I didn't even disparage Keene, merely showed other successful true freshman QBs in the last couple seasons.

UCF win/loss is not because of Keene, it was because of the team. The defense only giving up an average of 12 points a game in 7 games probably had a lot to do with it.

But they did not succeed as true freshmen. Success = winning or even not losing a game. Keene won in the face of diversity. Not sure why people continue to downplay that. He did it in a way that does not make for incredible highlight videos, but in a quiet confident manner. Somehow that makes him unlikely to be able to improve.

You showed examples of things to fit your narrative. I did the same. My point remains that there was nothing that Keene did that proves he is not going to be able to lead UCF to a great season. There is also no reason why JRP could not improve and beat him out. They both have things to prove, but I think Mikey has all the tools to win in Gus' offense. It is just a question if JRP has more tools or not.

 

[Knight_Classes_begin_7pm]

I would expect 3 or 4 QBs to play against an FCS team. Even if for only a few series or designed running plays.

agree BNGAD

 

[Knight_Classes_begin_7pm]

I would expect 3 or 4 QBs to play against an FCS team. Even if for only a few series or designed running plays.

One year we played SCS they were tough! I mean I was worried. They had that short running back that was running everywhere!

 

[Knight Strength]

One year we played SCS they were tough! I mean I was worried. They had that short running back that was running everywhere!

Believe KZ threw a few interceptions when we played in... 2018?

 

[SCKnight]

But you’d think reading the experts on this board that he absolutely can’t throw on the run and can’t create.

I don't think he was given the opportunity to do that much last year quite frankly. That is good coaching

 

[U C to the F]

I showed multiple examples of QBs in the same conference on inferior programs to show they too succeeded as true freshman. But somehow Keene circumstances is seen as far more grave and heroic. I didn't even disparage Keene, merely showed other successful true freshman QBs in the last couple seasons.

UCF win/loss is not because of Keene, it was because of the team. The defense only giving up an average of 12 points a game in 7 games probably had a lot to do with it.

I think your point about the defense giving up only 12 points on average the final 7 games is the biggest reason we won 6 out of the last 7. That’s amazing. Anybody honest with themselves can admit the qb play was hugely lacking production, no matter the situation. Hopefully our qb play is vastly improved whichever route it goes, that’s all any of us really want.

 

[SCKnight]

I think your point about the defense giving up only 12 points on average the final 7 games is the biggest reason we won 6 out of the last 7. That’s amazing. Anybody honest with themselves can admit the qb play was hugely lacking production, no matter the situation. Hopefully our qb play is vastly improved whichever route it goes, that’s all any of us really want.

Ask yourself. Do you think that the coaches put MK in a position to much more than he did?

 

[anon_gi3vk9zbfmw0w]

I showed multiple examples of QBs in the same conference on inferior programs to show they too succeeded as true freshman. But somehow Keene circumstances is seen as far more grave and heroic. I didn't even disparage Keene, merely showed other successful true freshman QBs in the last couple seasons.

UCF win/loss is not because of Keene, it was because of the team. The defense only giving up an average of 12 points a game in 7 games probably had a lot to do with it.

I mean, I wouldn’t say the defense was completely heroic either. You kind of cherry-picked stats by saying they “averaged 12 points a game in 7 games…”. Which seven games, the first seven? Last seven? At no point did they give up an average of 12.0 points per game during any seven consecutive game stretch.

I would say, yes - the defense played very well against some bad teams. They also embarrassingly gave up 55 to SMU, 56 to Cincinnati, and 34 to Navy. The Navy game was inexcusable, just outclassed and out physicaled on defense.

 

[Knight59]

My only real question regarding JRP is can he be a 2 minute, game winning qb if we’re starting at the 20 and all he’s thrown all day are short to medium passes? Run heavy teams have poor history of having a good 2 minute offense.

 

[Gwoz]

I mean, I wouldn’t say the defense was completely heroic either. You kind of cherry-picked stats by saying they “averaged 12 points a game in 7 games…”. Which seven games, the first seven? Last seven? At no point did they give up an average of 12.0 points per game during any seven consecutive game stretch.

I would say, yes - the defense played very well against some bad teams. They also embarrassingly gave up 55 to SMU, 56 to Cincinnati, and 34 to Navy. The Navy game was inexcusable, just outclassed and out physicaled on defense.

You are right it was cherry picked, the 7 games that the team won with Keene starting. Since all emphasis is on Keene leading the team to wins and virtually no other true freshman qb could do it either.

Keene will have ample opportunity to prove himself starting with Louisville, unless some feel he will still be held back by Malzahn.

 

[anon_gi3vk9zbfmw0w]

You are right it was cherry picked, the 7 games that the team won with Keene starting. Since all emphasis is on Keene leading the team to wins and virtually no other true freshman qb could do it either.

Keene will have ample opportunity to prove himself starting with Louisville, unless some feel he will still be held back by Malzahn.

So in Keene’s 10 starts, I would say the offense was really bad in three of those starts (ECU, Tulane, USF). The defense was easily the side of the ball that won us those games.

But the defense was awful against Navy and SMU, clearly the worse side of the ball in those contests (and we were never beating Cincinnati this year anyway, even though the defense gave UCF no chance in that one either).

Both sides of the ball were fine against Memphis, Temple, UCONN, and UF.

All I was trying to say is that it’s not exactly 100% accurate to imply that UCF went 7-3 in Keene’s starts only because of the defense. If anything, it was a mixed bag, with both sides of the ball having good/bad stretches.

 

[90Knight]

I showed multiple examples of QBs in the same conference on inferior programs to show they too succeeded as true freshman. But somehow Keene circumstances is seen as far more grave and heroic. I didn't even disparage Keene, merely showed other successful true freshman QBs in the last couple seasons.

UCF win/loss is not because of Keene, it was because of the team. The defense only giving up an average of 12 points a game in 7 games probably had a lot to do with it.

Funny…I bet you’d place every loss on Keene and not “ The Team” 😂…those not giving the kid any credit for being a big part of why we won last year just confirms their bias and unwillingness to accept that Keene was the best QB we had after DG went down

 

[Gwoz]

Funny…I bet you’d place every loss on Keene and not “ The Team” 😂…those not giving the kid any credit for being a big part of why we won last year just confirms their bias and unwillingness to accept that Keene was the best QB we had after DG went down

Nope I base it on performance. Many blame Gabriel for Louisville loss, don't see how you blame a guy that accounted for 5 tds, while the defense gives up 500 yards and 42 points. Same for SMU, Cincinnati games with Keene.

Keene gets credit for Tulane game, his performance led that game. Now for the Florida bowl game, I say Bowser 35 rushes for 155 yards and 2 tds, along with O'Keefe rushing for 110 yards won that game.

But I am old fashioned, I look for what players/units do, not what they don't do. In 2007 I would give all credit to Kevin Smith and not talk about how Kyle Israel managed the team.

 

[90Knight]

who has said that? No one , especially w a more run based spread offense

most think he fits better for a season vs AAC defenses ..not the SEC West

who has said that? No one , especially w a more run based spread offense

most think he fits better for a season vs AAC defenses ..not the SEC West

No one posted that any QB other than Keene would save us from Keene being our QB? I asked a question months ago asking what would have been good numbers for Keene…I think one person had the guts to answer and they were Gabriel like numbers…

none of the posters most critical of Keene would put down how many yards, TDs per game define a good QB…I’d say most expected him to put DG freshman like numbers or slightly below..I mean DG did it…some fans think playing QB and throwing for 300+ yards , 30 + TDs a game as a TRUE freshman is easy…apparently these guys are a dime a dozen…this is UCF!…we have standards…we expect our QBs to put up video game stats immediately….smh

 

[90Knight]

If you are going to have a quick hook......better to start Keene first.

And I hope TC plays in no more than 4 games and takes a redshirt.

Well according to several posters he probably won’t redshirt,… as Castellanos was a better QB than Keene at the moment he committed and still in hs….so he should be no lower than 2nd on the depth chart to Plumlee and clearly ahead of Keene ….at least according to those evaluators..I doubt he plays much…unless MK And JRP get hurt

 

[beelit47]

No one posted that any QB other than Keene would save us from Keene being our QB? I asked a question months ago asking what would have been good numbers for Keene…I think one person had the guts to answer and they were Gabriel like numbers…

none of the posters most critical of Keene would put down how many yards, TDs per game define a good QB…I’d say most expected him to put DG freshman like numbers or slightly below..I mean DG did it…some fans think playing QB and throwing for 300+ yards , 30 + TDs a game as a TRUE freshman is easy…apparently these guys are a dime a dozen…this is UCF!…we have standards…we expect our QBs to put up video game stats immediately….smh

Literally nobody is saying these things. What were saying is that anyone who watched him play last year saw an FCs qb at best. Slow release, slow footwork, every other throw to sideline. I dont understand how any observer could conclude differently. His best games were against temple and ecu. He played well despite these limitations but that means he has limited upside

 

[Poolside Knight]

Literally nobody is saying these things. What were saying is that anyone who watched him play last year saw an FCs qb at best. Slow release, slow footwork, every other throw to sideline. I dont understand how any observer could conclude differently. His best games were against temple and ecu. He played well despite these limitations but that means he has limited upside

idk how anyone can watch that and see him in the Spring and say ‘sign me up to watch that again!’

 

[AuburnLegacy_1]

Literally nobody is saying these things. What were saying is that anyone who watched him play last year saw an FCs qb at best. Slow release, slow footwork, every other throw to sideline. I dont understand how any observer could conclude differently. His best games were against temple and ecu. He played well despite these limitations but that means he has limited upside

idk how anyone can watch that and see him in the Spring and say ‘sign me up to watch that again!’

I call BS on both of these takes. I re-watched Keene's performance in his third game overall against Top 5 Cincinnati with probably the nation's best secondary. I thought he placed the ball well for the most part. He even made some Danny Wuerffel-type throws. I also thought he made the right reads. He did throw two picks; one was late across the middle on 3rd and 13 where he was trying to make something happen and one where he telegraphed a hitch to a tight end--a very stupid play call by the offensive coordinator. Why call a hitch to a slow white overused tight end who has too wide of a split against an NFL corner. The corner broke so fast on the ball he almost overran the Pick 6.

What impressed me about the re-watching the game was UCF bowed its back on defense in the second half and held the highly ranked Cincinnati squad in check. Cincinnati played eight seniors and three juniors on defense. I am uncertain how many return, but I like Central Florida's chances in the Bounce House.

 

[Shark19]

Well according to several posters he probably won’t redshirt,… as Castellanos was a better QB than Keene at the moment he committed and still in hs….so he should be no lower than 2nd on the depth chart to Plumlee and clearly ahead of Keene ….at least according to those evaluators..I doubt he plays much…unless MK And JRP get

Only stupid posters....being able to play in 4 games AND get the rest of the year to mature physically and most important mentally (most complex position in sports) would do him a world of good.

 

[U C to the F]

So in Keene’s 10 starts, I would say the offense was really bad in three of those starts (ECU, Tulane, USF). The defense was easily the side of the ball that won us those games.

But the defense was awful against Navy and SMU, clearly the worse side of the ball in those contests (and we were never beating Cincinnati this year anyway, even though the defense gave UCF no chance in that one either).

Both sides of the ball were fine against Memphis, Temple, UCONN, and UF.

All I was trying to say is that it’s not exactly 100% accurate to imply that UCF went 7-3 in Keene’s starts only because of the defense. If anything, it was a mixed bag, with both sides of the ball having good/bad stretches.

Wasn’t ECU, Tulane and usf all some of the worst defenses in all of FBS though? Those games were hard to watch, our punter got a lot of work in those games.

 

[SCKnight]

idk how anyone can watch that and see him in the Spring and say ‘sign me up to watch that again!’

If he wins games....sign me up for that again!!

 

[Poolside Knight]

Wasn’t ECU, Tulane and usf all some of the worst defenses in all of FBS though? Those games were hard to watch, our punter got a lot of work in those games.

4th quarter games vs bottom feeders bc so many 3 and outs

 

[akahotsizzle]

If he wins games....sign me up for that again!!

Yup. I want wins. Explosive offense is for sure more fun but so long as we get wins I do not care. I only disagree with completely writing off Keene. I love his demeanor and anyone can see he put a lot of effort into getting stronger during the off-season. That said, may the best dude win the job, and then win us games.

 

[KnightVision82]

I’ve said all along that may the best man win. Having said that, I don’t understand all of this exuberance over Plumlee when the only film on him shows that he was a running QB at Ole Miss…not a passer.

So much so that they moved him to WR …..where he played the last two seasons, WR….not QB….. Ole Miss didn’t see him being good enough to even stay as a 3rd or 4th string QB…much less Corral’s backup or eventual successor…Ole Miss didn‘t even want him in the QB room and moved him out after one season….so where do some you get these glowing endorsements and projections?…

Now, having said that….he could very well have worked hard and developed as a passer….you see, unlike some fans, I believe players need reps, time, coaching, and practice to develop…

but other than a scripted, touch Spring game….no one has seen anything to indicate otherwise ….and all of these evaluations and claims that he’ll be our savior, putting up Gabriel like numbers are just guesses…you have a 50/50 chance you’ll be right on your guess.

Plumlee is an athletic freak who can take it to the house on a running play and that’s super exciting, but if he passes like at Ole Miss….then Keene is the better QB as I think he’s a better passer(not saying he’ll put up huge numbers, just better than JRP)….we don’t run the wish bone so the better passer will win out….if they’re equal passers…Plumlee is the choice hands down. I‘m a fan of the QB in the game and anyone who helps us win games. Gus is loyal to one thing…winning and players who help him win….like Keene did..last year but if Keene or JRP lose…he’ll yank them…and I’m fine with that

O'Keefe just referred to this opinion above "Plumlee is an athletic freak who can take it to the house on a running play" in his interview that he can't wait to see what JRP does during a game.

I think JRP is going to wind up being the starter because the players kind of tip their hand to us during camp to let us know what is going to happen.

 

[beelit47]

idk how anyone can watch that and see him in the Spring and say ‘sign me up to watch that again!’

Tbh it is the longest windup/release i have ever seen on a qb. Against slow defenses you can get away with it but any decent corners will have enough time to react and break on the ball

 

[Shark19]

Tbh it is the longest windup/release i have ever seen on a qb. Against slow defenses you can get away with it but any decent corners will have enough time to react and break on the ball

Nope, Byron Leftwich would make Keene look like Dan Marino

 

[PhDee]

Keene all the way. Dude has made a huge stride since last year. Looking to see him run the table for us.

I'm okay with whoever starts. Both would win us games

 

[HammerB08]

If it's close you go with the guy who can break a 60 yard TD run at any time.

 

[anon_gi3vk9zbfmw0w]

If it's close you go with the guy who can break a 60 yard TD run at any time.

Yes, absolutely 100%. I don’t think anyone’s arguing, if the QB competition is truly neck-and-neck/flip a coin, go with the guy with the highest ceiling.

At the same time, I just think a few of us (for a while now) have tried to be a bit more reasonable, and not jump to conclusions that a true freshmen quarterback can never get stronger, more aware, or more comfortable in an offense.

There’s only one quarterback in the history of the program that can say they were under center and beat the Gators. Maybe I’m old school, but for me, that means something and can’t be dismissed. I also recognize that JRP is more dynamic, raises the offense’s ceiling, and is probably better suited to orchestrate this staff’s offense.

Excited to see it all play out!

 

[Gwoz]

There’s only one quarterback in the history of the program that can say they were under center and beat the Gators. Maybe I’m old school, but for me, that means something and can’t be dismissed.

Jeff Godfrey is the guy that beat Georgia in a bowl game as a freshman , then went on to lose to FIU the next season and eventually lost the job at the end of the season to Blake Bortles when the team no longer was bowl eligible. If Keene struggles and has an 'FIU' game, the team has to be ready to move on.

 

[Poolside Knight]

Gator fans wouldn’t have wanted Emory Jones to remain starter if they squeaked by us bc most know Richardson has a much higher upside. That is a lazy analysis. similar to those that overreacted to Mack getting it done in a 1 game scenario vs Memphis

 

[beelit47]

Yes, absolutely 100%. I don’t think anyone’s arguing, if the QB competition is truly neck-and-neck/flip a coin, go with the guy with the highest ceiling.

At the same time, I just think a few of us (for a while now) have tried to be a bit more reasonable, and not jump to conclusions that a true freshmen quarterback can never get stronger, more aware, or more comfortable in an offense.

There’s only one quarterback in the history of the program that can say they were under center and beat the Gators. Maybe I’m old school, but for me, that means something and can’t be dismissed. I also recognize that JRP is more dynamic, raises the offense’s ceiling, and is probably better suited to orchestrate this staff’s offense.

Excited to see it all play out!

Anyone can get stronger. Very difficult to get quicker,faster, and throw harder.
On the other hand it is easier to develop accuracy, awareness, and touch. JRP all day

 

[KnightVision82]

I understand what you’re saying but I don’t think Heupel recruited this kid out of that program in AZ just for depth. Especially with Navarro sitting on the bench already.

About Keene from his old HS coach:

“Well, he’s definitely a guy that can create and throw on the run. He’s probably the best guy I’ve had at doing that, including the guys that played in the Pac 12 and the NFL, and he has that innate ability to make those particular throws.”

But you’d think reading the experts on this board that he absolutely can’t throw on the run and can’t create. I don’t care if he gets the job or not, all I want is a team that wins games, but I do think that we’ll be just fine if he wins the job and all this negativity is unwarranted.

https://www.si.com/college/ucf/.amp...orida-football/garretson-discusses-keene[/URL

Keene definitely has leadership sk...going to require more out of the QB position.

 

[Central Floridave]

 

[Central Floridave]

 

[sk8knight]

Tbh it is the longest windup/release i have ever seen on a qb. Against slow defenses you can get away with it but any decent corners will have enough time to react and break on the ball

That motion is basically as long as Bortles and Byron Leftwich and Sam Darnold at USC and a number of others. Bortles was drafted #3 into the NFL, if you’ll recall. (Of course, most of the videos that you’ll find of Bortles are after he was already in the pros for a bit and worked on it.)

So I guess we should just write the kid off because he has a long motion at 18/19 years old.

 

[sk8knight]

Jeff Godfrey is the guy that beat Georgia in a bowl game as a freshman , then went on to lose to FIU the next season and eventually lost the job at the end of the season to Blake Bortles when the team no longer was bowl eligible. If Keene struggles and has an 'FIU' game, the team has to be ready to move on.

If I had to compare the 2, JRP is a larger Godfrey and Keene is a smaller Bortles. Cristobal broke Godfrey by bringing multiple blitzes every single down. Hopefully JRP is a better QB than that.

 

[beelit47]

That motion is basically as long as Bortles and Byron Leftwich and Sam Darnold at USC and a number of others. Bortles was drafted #3 into the NFL, if you’ll recall. (Of course, most of the videos that you’ll find of Bortles are after he was already in the pros for a bit and worked on it.)

So I guess we should just write the kid off because he has a long motion at 18/19 years old.

Bortles never had that kind of windup. Not. Even. Close.