Ready for the clown show debate tonight?

[Sir Galahad]

EXACTLY. I honestly have NO idea how any educated person can think Trump won that. He says nothing of substance, talks in circles, loses his train of thought half the time and then yells at you when you try to correct him.

Look, as you all know, I am a liberal. However, I can respect a conservative view point, IF it is an educated, well thought out point of view. Conservatives think a different way than I do and that's fine, different opinions are good for the country. He has NO substance at all though. He covers his ears and just screams whenever you try to tell him he is wrong (when he is, factually wrong).

Anytime Trump is asked anything: "Listen, the past 30 years have been bad, really bad. I know, I have properties there. I have a friend who knows some people, a great friend. I did great things, ask my friend. We're gonna do great things, amazing things."

I can respect Paul Ryan, McCain, even Bush. How anyone backs this clown of a man blows my mind.

Please tell me why you support Clinton. What has she done? She has no ethics, very dishonest and is nothing more than a canned politician. Please tell me her policies, be specific, that will improve the American economy, keep jobs from moving over seas and how she will improve America's standing in the world. Using her policies, I'll wait.

You want to say Trump has no substance, tell me Hillary's.

 

[CommuterBob]

Where do you get your facts from. This is the first presidency in American History that GDP has not reached 3% so whatever the government is doing is not working. The average actual paid tax rate for corporations in 2012 was at 12.6% after deductions. You need to do your own research rather than listening to msnbc.

I don't watch MSNBC, but your bias is showing with your unsubstantiated name calling. I am by no means a liberal.

In 2015, Corporate Tax revenues made up 11% of all Federal Tax revenue: http://www.cbpp.org/research/policy-basics-where-do-federal-tax-revenues-come-from
In 2008, we headed into a recession from which we have recovered. Granted growth is still slow, but it's turned around since the negative growth rate of 2009 and we have the highest GDP per capita the US has ever had. And inflation has been historically low too. I'd say that what has been happening has at least kept the country moving forward from some of the biggest banking issues our country has ever seen.

Where do you get your facts? Can you get them from more current sources than 4 years ago?

 

[bqknight]

Please tell me why you support Clinton. What has she done? She has no ethics, very dishonest and is nothing more than a canned politician. Please tell me her policies, be specific, that will improve the American economy, keep jobs from moving over seas and how she will improve America's standing in the world. Using her policies, I'll wait.

You want to say Trump has no substance, tell me Hillary's.

Disclaimer: I am not a fan of Hillary's. I did not vote for in the primary.

My post was not in anyway telling any of you to support Clinton or that she is amazing and she will fix a bunch of problems. Do her policies more closely match mine of any of the other candidates running? Yes. Will I vote for her, yes. But what I was trying to say is that it BLOWS MY MIND how any educated person thinks what was on display from Trump last night is not even just presidential, but okay in general.

He admitted he doesn't pay taxes, he admitted he didn't pay people for work that they completed, he tried to say that black people should thank him for getting Obama to release his birth certificate (WHAT!?), he lost his train of thought countless times. When someone said he was wrong, factually, 100% wrong, he just yelled at them and said they were lying.

I get that many people don't agree with Clinton's policies and think she is shady (she is a bit shady, so are a lot of politicians) but how anyone can sit and listen to that man speak and think he has anything to offer and can be president of a powerful country astounds me. It's truly embarrassing.

Edit: If you want a third party candidate, start from the local level by the way. You don't just magically appear and have zero representation and then win the presidency. I get that to many all the candidates are horrible but my whole point was to say that Trump is an actual joke and if you can't see past that, then you've let his fear mongering and negativity get to you.

 

[UCFKnight85]

Actually, your example isn't true. The top marginal tax rate's biggest drop was in 1982 when it went from 69% to 50% and had a limited short-term effect on the economy (GDP growth rate was actually negative in 1982). It fell another 11% in 1987 and another 10% in 1988, but then went back up 11% in 1993 - during really the start of the 90's boon (there was a mild recession in 1990-91) and it stayed there until 2001, during the longest non-wartime sustained growth of our economy.

Top marginal tax rate by year: http://webarchive.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/Content/PDF/toprate_historical.pdf

US GDP by year: https://www.thebalance.com/us-gdp-by-year-3305543

You are splitting an incredible number of hairs here. Come on, man.

Yes, the first tax reduction was in 1982, but as you JUST said, it continued dropping into the 90's. Even with Clinton's tax hike, the top marginal rate was still WAY below what it was prior to Reagan (69%).

We saw a 30% reduction in the top marginal rate; splitting hairs over 2-3% increase is irrelevant. The fact is that the economy grew at a record pace in the 80's and 90's after more than a decade of stagnation, with top rates well, well below the rates pre-1982.

 

[UCFKnight85]

Disclaimer: I am not a fan of Hillary's. I did not vote for in the primary.

My post was not in anyway telling any of you to support Clinton or that she is amazing and she will fix a bunch of problems. Do her policies more closely match mine of any of the other candidates running? Yes. Will I vote for her, yes. But what I was trying to say is that it BLOWS MY MIND how any educated person thinks what was on display from Trump last night is not even just presidential, but okay in general.

He admitted he doesn't pay taxes, he admitted he didn't pay people for work that they completed, he tried to say that black people should thank him for getting Obama to release his birth certificate (WHAT!?), he lost his train of thought countless times. When someone said he was wrong, factually, 100% wrong, he just yelled at them and said they were lying.

I get that many people don't agree with Clinton's policies and think she is shady (she is a bit shady, so are a lot of politicians) but how anyone can sit and listen to that man speak and think he has anything to offer and can be president of a powerful country astounds me. It's truly embarrassing.

Edit: If you want a third party candidate, start from the local level by the way. You don't just magically appear and have zero representation and then win the presidency. I get that to many all the candidates are horrible but my whole point was to say that Trump is an actual joke and if you can't see past that, then you've let his fear mongering and negativity get to you.

You're right- he's a moron, an asshole, and a fraud.

But you're also selling Hillary's problems massively short.

"A bit shady" is the guy at Tijuana Flats who skimps you on your taco meat. Hillary Clinton is a career pariah and cretin who has abused power, broken laws, and manipulated people to achieve power, influence, and wealth. She is a person who used her Foundation as a political capitol slush fund during her time at State, at which point she was also breaking her own policies and break Federal law.

She is a person that has been accused multiple times of attempting to intimidate the women who were harassed or assaulted by her sexual predator husband.

She's someone who insults the intelligence of every single American by saying things like "Wiping a hard drive clean? You mean with a cloth?" when being asked about her deliberate attempt to obstruct justice by deleting emails when under subpoena.

There is no defense for voting for Trump; there is equally no defense for voting for Hillary Clinton. Either way you're rewarding someone who represents the absolute worst about this country.

 

[UCFhonors]

Corporate crook vs political crook.

I put the over/under on actual answers to questions at 4. Gonna be rhetoric central otherwise.

"How would you deal with Aleppo?"

DT: "Well, let me tell you how, by making it great. You know we can't have a liar like Hillary in the Oval Office when we have Mexicans pouring over our borders. It's horrible."

Did you just nail the whopping 4 questions in 90 mintues!?!?! Personally I didn't really hear any answers to those.

 

[CommuterBob]

You are splitting an incredible number of hairs here. Come on, man.

Yes, the first tax reduction was in 1982, but as you JUST said, it continued dropping into the 90's. Even with Clinton's tax hike, the top marginal rate was still WAY below what it was prior to Reagan (69%).

We saw a 30% reduction in the top marginal rate; splitting hairs over 2-3% increase is irrelevant. The fact is that the economy grew at a record pace in the 80's and 90's after more than a decade of stagnation, with top rates well, well below the rates pre-1982.

Not really. Tax rates dropped well before real gains in GDP growth happened and then when they went back up (following a recession mind you) the growth exploded. Your broad-brush claim that tax rates spurred the growth is hardly accurate.

 

[jetsaholic]

"A bit shady" is the guy at Tijuana Flats who skimps you on your taco meat.

Motherfukcers like that are the reason AR-15s go on killing sprees.

 

[Sir Galahad]

I don't watch MSNBC, but your bias is showing with your unsubstantiated name calling. I am by no means a liberal.

In 2015, Corporate Tax revenues made up 11% of all Federal Tax revenue: http://www.cbpp.org/research/policy-basics-where-do-federal-tax-revenues-come-from
In 2008, we headed into a recession from which we have recovered. Granted growth is still slow, but it's turned around since the negative growth rate of 2009 and we have the highest GDP per capita the US has ever had. And inflation has been historically low too. I'd say that what has been happening has at least kept the country moving forward from some of the biggest banking issues our country has ever seen.

Where do you get your facts? Can you get them from more current sources than 4 years ago?

Wait, you said corporations didn't pay any tax, now you're saying it made up 11% of the overall federal taxes received which still is not a real number. Help me out, what number do you want to use.

 

[CommuterBob]

Did you just nail the whopping 4 questions in 90 mintues!?!?! Personally I didn't really hear any answers to those.

I think it was high. Both candidates did what I expected, took wild tangents and brought up their rhetoric and basically failed to correctly answer any questions, except when basically badgered by Holt on the "will you accept the results of the election?" question.

The funniest one was the question on "how will you bring back jobs that have been lost by companies that have taken them to foreign countries?" to which neither candidate answered even partially and somehow the debate trolled over to talking about ISIS. Hilarious.

 

[UCFKnight85]

Not really. Tax rates dropped well before real gains in GDP growth happened and then when they went back up (following a recession mind you) the growth exploded. Your broad-brush claim that tax rates spurred the growth is hardly accurate.

smh

You don't seem to understand that investment takes time. You don't cut rates and get the subsequent growth overnight.

Might as well end this debate. You seemed tied to the belief that raising tax rates is the only way to achieve economic growth. Which makes it a mystery how the American economy even functioned before there even were income taxes........

 

[CommuterBob]

Wait, you said corporations didn't pay any tax, now you're saying it made up 11% of the overall federal taxes received which still is not a real number. Help me out, what number do you want to use.

Wait. No I didn't say that. I said trump didn't pay any taxes. Pay attention. You're really trying to parse my words. Why?

I'd like to know how a published and sourced number isn't a real number? Did it have an i next to it?

 

[Sir Galahad]

Disclaimer: I am not a fan of Hillary's. I did not vote for in the primary.

My post was not in anyway telling any of you to support Clinton or that she is amazing and she will fix a bunch of problems. Do her policies more closely match mine of any of the other candidates running? Yes. Will I vote for her, yes. But what I was trying to say is that it BLOWS MY MIND how any educated person thinks what was on display from Trump last night is not even just presidential, but okay in general.

He admitted he doesn't pay taxes, he admitted he didn't pay people for work that they completed, he tried to say that black people should thank him for getting Obama to release his birth certificate (WHAT!?), he lost his train of thought countless times. When someone said he was wrong, factually, 100% wrong, he just yelled at them and said they were lying.

I get that many people don't agree with Clinton's policies and think she is shady (she is a bit shady, so are a lot of politicians) but how anyone can sit and listen to that man speak and think he has anything to offer and can be president of a powerful country astounds me. It's truly embarrassing.

Edit: If you want a third party candidate, start from the local level by the way. You don't just magically appear and have zero representation and then win the presidency. I get that to many all the candidates are horrible but my whole point was to say that Trump is an actual joke and if you can't see past that, then you've let his fear mongering and negativity get to you.

You're a fraud, stop acting like you're some upper educated superior person to those voting for a Trump. I can play that game as well, anyone that is voting for Hillary has no ethics or is a poor judgement of character. See how that works? I don't care about if somethings me looks presidential, I care about if they can solve the problems. She has been in the government for 26 years and has not achieved anything Would you support a head football coach with a losing record for 26 years?

 

[Sir Galahad]

Wait. No I didn't say that. I said trump didn't pay any taxes. Pay attention. You're really trying to parse my words. Why?

I'd like to know how a published and sourced number isn't a real number? Did it have an i next to it?

Do you know that for sure? I bet he pays a crap load of property taxes which are deductible from your federal taxes.

 

[CommuterBob]

smh

You don't seem to understand that investment takes time. You don't cut rates and get the subsequent growth overnight.

Might as well end this debate. You seemed tied to the belief that raising tax rates is the only way to achieve economic growth. Which makes it a mystery how the American economy even functioned before there even were income taxes........

I'm not saying that at all, not even remotely. You're putting words into my posts. All I did was to refute your assertion that lowering top marginal tax rates is the lone factor in spurring the economy. It's a factor, but it's not even close to being the only one.

 

[CommuterBob]

Do you know that for sure? I bet he pays a crap load of property taxes which are deductible from your federal taxes.

I bet his companies pay those property taxes, not him.

And no, we don't know that for sure, but he basically admitted that he doesn't when he responded to the charge from Hillary with "because I'm smart."

The few tax returns that have been released from him (when he was trying to get a casino license) showed he paid no income tax.

 

[Sir Galahad]

By funneling her and bill's speaking income through her foundation, do you have any idea how much in taxes she is not paying because it's not reported income?

 

[bqknight]

You're a fraud, stop acting like you're some upper educated superior person to those voting for a Trump. I can play that game as well, anyone that is voting for Hillary has no ethics or is a poor judgement of character. See how that works? I don't care about if somethings me looks presidential, I care about if they can solve the problems. She has been in the government for 26 years and has not achieved anything Would you support a head football coach with a losing record for 26 years?

To be honest, I haven't been back on here enough to know if you are trolling or not but okay. You are comparing a president with a football coach first of all. Also - please, inform me how Trump has solved problems?

Remember folks, Clinton wasn't the only member of the entire government. As I said, she was definitely not my first choice but Trump would be my absolute last. If you want the government to change, start electing local officials, build up your party and get the support to make a presidential run. You can't just throw someone up there for the hell of it, this isn't some fantasy football draft.

 

[UCF-icenhl-06]

You're a fraud, stop acting like you're some upper educated superior person to those voting for a Trump. I can play that game as well, anyone that is voting for Hillary has no ethics or is a poor judgement of character. See how that works? I don't care about if somethings me looks presidential, I care about if they can solve the problems. She has been in the government for 26 years and has not achieved anything Would you support a head football coach with a losing record for 26 years?

Would you support a head football coach who has never coached anything, has barely even watched football, doesnt even know the rules or how the sport functions or how many points a touchdown is worth, but still berates the other coach's wives in the parking lot? And when hes not doing that he's just being incoherent on twitter?

 

[UCF-icenhl-06]

By funneling her and bill's speaking income through her foundation, do you have any idea how much in taxes she is not paying because it's not reported income?

the money going to the foundation is being put to good, charitable use. Not lawsuits and Tim Tebow helmets.

https://www.charitywatch.org/ratings-and-metrics/bill-hillary-chelsea-clinton-foundation/478

 

[CommuterBob]

By funneling her and bill's speaking income through her foundation, do you have any idea how much in taxes she is not paying because it's not reported income?

Trump has also funneled income into his Foundation, namely appearance fees. He got caught once and has paid a penalty on that one instance, but there are others.

 

[Bob the Citronaut]

Disclaimer: I am not a fan of Hillary's. I did not vote for in the primary.

My post was not in anyway telling any of you to support Clinton or that she is amazing and she will fix a bunch of problems. Do her policies more closely match mine of any of the other candidates running? Yes. Will I vote for her, yes. But what I was trying to say is that it BLOWS MY MIND how any educated person thinks what was on display from Trump last night is not even just presidential, but okay in general.

He admitted he doesn't pay taxes, he admitted he didn't pay people for work that they completed, he tried to say that black people should thank him for getting Obama to release his birth certificate (WHAT!?), he lost his train of thought countless times. When someone said he was wrong, factually, 100% wrong, he just yelled at them and said they were lying.

I get that many people don't agree with Clinton's policies and think she is shady (she is a bit shady, so are a lot of politicians) but how anyone can sit and listen to that man speak and think he has anything to offer and can be president of a powerful country astounds me. It's truly embarrassing.

Edit: If you want a third party candidate, start from the local level by the way. You don't just magically appear and have zero representation and then win the presidency. I get that to many all the candidates are horrible but my whole point was to say that Trump is an actual joke and if you can't see past that, then you've let his fear mongering and negativity get to you.

It's very simple. Hillary is a lot worse.

 

[bqknight]

It's very simple. Hillary is a lot worse.

Sure.

 

[Bob the Citronaut]

I bet his companies pay those property taxes, not him.

And no, we don't know that for sure, but he basically admitted that he doesn't when he responded to the charge from Hillary with "because I'm smart."

The few tax returns that have been released from him (when he was trying to get a casino license) showed he paid no income tax.

Who cares? Is he breaking the law?

 

[CommuterBob]

It's very simple. Hillary is a lot worse.

Which piece of shit tastes better for breakfast?

 

[CommuterBob]

Who cares? Is he breaking the law?

Maybe. He gets audited every year by his own admission.

 

[Bob the Citronaut]

Sure.

At least you didn't name call in that post, I'll give you that.

 

[Bob the Citronaut]

Maybe. He gets audited every year by his own admission.

He'd be in jail if it were maybe.

 

[Bob the Citronaut]

Which piece of shit tastes better for breakfast?

The one that isn't named Hillary.

 

[CommuterBob]

He'd be in jail if it were maybe.

Really? You know how many people settle tax debt vs going to jail? Lots.

 

[chemmie]

Stocks at record levels, profits at record levels, and incomes for the Top 1% at record levels, while ordinary Americans are working harder for less. They still want us to believe that our taxes are too high and we need to cut them for the richest...it'll trickle down to us, we promise!!! Even though it hasn't for 30+ years.

 

[USFSucks]

Motherfukcers like that are the reason AR-15s go on killing sprees.

#BanTacoSkimming

 

[bqknight]

At least you didn't name call in that post, I'll give you that.

Name call? Who? Donald. Or because I said how I don't get how anyone who has an education would vote for him?

Either way, I don't see any name calling. But let me go check with Donald, who gladly puts down women, fat people, people with disabilities, etc.

 

[Bob the Citronaut]

Yeap, you said anyone thinking of voting for Trump is uneducated and embarrassing. Now back to my basket.

 

[UCFhonors]

I think it was high. Both candidates did what I expected, took wild tangents and brought up their rhetoric and basically failed to correctly answer any questions, except when basically badgered by Holt on the "will you accept the results of the election?" question.

The funniest one was the question on "how will you bring back jobs that have been lost by companies that have taken them to foreign countries?" to which neither candidate answered even partially and somehow the debate trolled over to talking about ISIS. Hilarious.

That was funny. Also their security
talks were a joke. Hilary's on using our Ally's was pretty good though.

I truly think people hear what they want to hear from their candidate, and look for disagreement with the opposition.

Thinking back, asking how Johnson would have answered those questions, I don't think he would've had a good answer about the social issues on inequality and crime. Supporting him, probably makes people more objective though.

I thought Hilary destroyed Trump. Albeit I disagree with both of them on almost everything.

 

[bqknight]

Yeap, you said anyone thinking of voting for Trump is uneducated and embarrassing. Now back to my basket.

I said that I do not understand how anyone that is educated could vote for him and that HE is embarrassing. Thanks.

 

[Bob the Citronaut]

Stocks at record levels, profits at record levels, and incomes for the Top 1% at record levels, while ordinary Americans are working harder for less. They still want us to believe that our taxes are too high and we need to cut them for the richest...it'll trickle down to us, we promise!!! Even though it hasn't for 30+ years.

Obama and Dems have been in control most of the last eight years, raising taxes and adding new entitlements. Why are things only getting worse?

 

[CommuterBob]

Obama and Dems have been in control most of the last eight years, raising taxes and adding new entitlements. Why are things only getting worse?

Whaaaat? Republican House since 2010. Things are not worse. Quit day drinking.

 

[Bob the Citronaut]

I said that I do not understand how anyone that is educated could vote for him and that HE is embarrassing. Thanks.

Lol OK you never said it directly. For being as educated as you are though I figured you'd understand you are using innuendo and implications.

 

[MACHater02]

Whaaaat? Republican House since 2010. Things are not worse. Quit day drinking.

They have to say things are going badly, or else there is no reason to even listen to them. If the economy were soaring, they would say it should be soaring faster.