SCOTUS rules states must allow same-sex marriage

[cnewton157]

Does anyone know how marriage in a church works from a legal basis? You get a marriage certificate, which is the legal binding document and I thought the priest pretty much acted as a notary. The actual ceremony has nothing to do with government or legality. So I would think, at most, the court could force a priest to not be discriminatory about who he oversees the handling of the marriage certificate for. I don't think they could possibly force him to hold the ceremony.

I could be totally wrong on the my assumptions of how it all works though.

I think because churches are completely irrelevant to the legal process of the marriage (they're not actually needed for anything - people just choose to use them a lot of the time), they wouldn't be compelled to sign a marriage licence of a couple they don't support. The actual ceremony is just that. Actually meaningless when it comes to the legal status of a marriage. I think that's a good balance of protecting a religious right and the interest of the public. Nobody has to get married in a Catholic church or have the license signed by a church official from some other religion.

However, government employees, notaries, etc., are actually necessary for the license. And as working for the government, they are required to uphold the law. They take an oath to the constitution, not a religious text. So as long as they can verify the couple coming in are eligible for marriage based on state and/or federal law, they have a duty to marry them.

 

[FearTheKnight]

You know he was being sarcastic, right?

"Sarcastically" stating your opinion isn't sarcasm. Unless he's Andy Kaufman 2.0, I'm pretty sure I've got a good bead on this one.

 

[UCFKnight85]

I think because churches are completely irrelevant to the legal process of the marriage (they're not actually needed for anything - people just choose to use them a lot of the time), they wouldn't be compelled to sign a marriage licence of a couple they don't support. The actual ceremony is just that. Actually meaningless when it comes to the legal status of a marriage. I think that's a good balance of protecting a religious right and the interest of the public. Nobody has to get married in a Catholic church or have the license signed by a church official from some other religion.

However, government employees, notaries, etc., are actually necessary for the license. And as working for the government, they are required to uphold the law. They take an oath to the constitution, not a religious text. So as long as they can verify the couple coming in are eligible for marriage based on state and/or federal law, they have a duty to marry them.

This is probably the best explanation on how ass backwards marriage has become in this country.
Actual religious ceremonies, for which marriage is a sacrament, are "meaningless" yet hourly paid notaries and government cubicle workers are "blessed" with the legal authority to mandate who is and isn't married in the eyes of almighty government.

All so the government can re-classify your tax status and add or detract a few exemptions.

 

[goodknightfl]

As a notary, my wife has preformed a couple of marriages for friends. The church in legal terms becomes a Notary public in order to handle it.

 

[Happy Hands]

This is probably the best explanation on how ass backwards marriage has become in this country.
Actual religious ceremonies, for which marriage is a sacrament, are "meaningless" yet hourly paid notaries and government cubicle workers are "blessed" with the legal authority to mandate who is and isn't married in the eyes of almighty government.

All so the government can re-classify your tax status and add or detract a few exemptions.

Most American churches are protestant, so they don't consider marriage a sacrament.

I get why the government is involved in marriage, because it once upon a time created citizens within the family unit. As more relationships shift away from marriage and children are born outside of wedlock, the less government belongs in the marriage business.

 

[jetsaholic]

"Sarcastically" stating your opinion isn't sarcasm. Unless he's Andy Kaufman 2.0, I'm pretty sure I've got a good bead on this one.

You'd be surpirsed. There's some black belts in sar-casm-su in da coola.

 

[SublimeKnight]

As a notary, my wife has preformed a couple of marriages for friends. The church in legal terms becomes a Notary public in order to handle it.

As a notary, if she refused to perform a marriage between a mixed race couple or a gay couple, would there be legal ramifications? I'd think they could take her certification. That was my only point in my post. The government can't force churches to perform marriage ceremonies, but they may end up taking their ability to legally marry people. It would become something you do at a courthouse outside the ceremony.

 

[Bob the Citronaut]

Everything in here is sarcasm, no?

 

[jetsaholic]

r

As a notary, if she refused to perform a marriage between a mixed race couple or a gay couple, would there be legal ramifications? I'd think they could take her certification. That was my only point in my post. The government can't force churches to perform marriage ceremonies, but they may end up taking their ability to legally marry people. It would become something you do at a courthouse outside the ceremony.

I think there's already a case about this in Texas and, from what I understand, the clerk can refuse to issue the marriage license based on religious reasons but the clerk's office has to issue the marriage license because it's the law of the land. The clerk cannot be reprimended for not issuing the license either because she is citing religious reasons. Somebody in that office has to issue the marriage license.

There's hasn't been a request for a gay marriage in that county in Texas yet though.

 

[goodknightfl]

My wife doesn't usually preform marriages, but I don't know what the answer is, my guess is she could lose notary stamp. If she knew the couple and they were friends I expect she would marry them. She doesn't advertize her notary, so unlikely she would be asked by strangers.

As a rule of thumb, I doubt she would marry anyone, who we don't already know. She doesn't charge for her time.

 

[Game_Day_Sports]

Here is what I never understand about the people refusing to do the ceremony or bake the cake.

Are these idiots actually saying they can't do it because the couple is gay? Are they morons? Just tell them you are overbooked and can't take on any more business, then go to church and confess that you lied, say a hail mary, drop $10 in the tip jar and head home.

 

[Bob the Citronaut]

Here is what I never understand about the people refusing to do the ceremony or bake the cake.

Are these idiots actually saying they can't do it because the couple is gay? Are they morons? Just tell them you are overbooked and can't take on any more business, then go to church and confess that you lied, say a hail mary, drop $10 in the tip jar and head home.

Yes, they're unbelievably stupid.