Just something I’ve observed over the past few seasons with all of this G5 vs P5, especially with all the trash talk Pitt gave us last week. I’m not trying to trash talk or poke fun, but I have a serious question regarding the elitist mentality of the P5 teams. As a fan of your team, wouldn’t you rather be in the G5 and dominate rather than consistently have a losing or even record year in and year out in the P5? Fans of teams in the P5 act like they’re superior just because they claim P5 status. What’s the fun of being in the P5 if you can’t compete? There are teams like Vandy, Rutgers among others who can’t consistently compete in the P5. Would I like to be in their shoes? No. I can honestly say I’d rather be stuck in the G5 for the rest of eternity than be a losing P5 program. At the end of the day, winning is fun. Losing isn’t. No matter what conference your team is in.
Serious G5 vs P5 question
- Thread starter peterfy
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Do fans of P5 teams really pat their backs because of that. I mean my favorite team in all sports is the Boston Celtics. 17-time NBA world champions.
As a fan of UK football, I think you make a valid point. For years, many of our fans have thought that UK should move to the ACC to be more competitive in football. Because of revenue sharing in the conference combined with the fact that we are a founding member of the SEC, we won’t be going anywhere. There is too much money involved.
At best, we have had some spotty success on the gridiron, but it has mostly been futility. We only have 2 SEC titles since the inception of the conference in 1932. Moreover, since the establishment of the SEC Championship game in 1992, Kentucky, Vanderbilt, Ole Miss, and Texas A&M are the only four teams who have failed to make the title game. Keep in mind that Texas A&M has only been in the conference since 2012. Hell, even Missouri, who joined the same year as the Aggies, has been to the championship game!
This Power 5 fan doesn’t have an elitist attitude toward the Group of 5 at all. I’ve posted on your board for the last couple of weeks, and I respect what you and other G5 programs have accomplished. My team has made great strides in the last few years, and I believe Coach Stoops has us on the right trajectory. Are we close to winning an SEC championship? Clearly, the answer is no, but we are far more competitive than we have been. The culture here is starting to change. There might be a year where a senior laden UK team could challenge for the SEC championship. Until that time, I’ll remain hopeful and continue to support my team.
Until the CFP is expanded, it is going to be difficult for teams like UCF and Boise State to make it. The deck is stacked against the Group of 5. The CFP is all about the money and viewership.
At best, we have had some spotty success on the gridiron, but it has mostly been futility. We only have 2 SEC titles since the inception of the conference in 1932. Moreover, since the establishment of the SEC Championship game in 1992, Kentucky, Vanderbilt, Ole Miss, and Texas A&M are the only four teams who have failed to make the title game. Keep in mind that Texas A&M has only been in the conference since 2012. Hell, even Missouri, who joined the same year as the Aggies, has been to the championship game!
This Power 5 fan doesn’t have an elitist attitude toward the Group of 5 at all. I’ve posted on your board for the last couple of weeks, and I respect what you and other G5 programs have accomplished. My team has made great strides in the last few years, and I believe Coach Stoops has us on the right trajectory. Are we close to winning an SEC championship? Clearly, the answer is no, but we are far more competitive than we have been. The culture here is starting to change. There might be a year where a senior laden UK team could challenge for the SEC championship. Until that time, I’ll remain hopeful and continue to support my team.
Until the CFP is expanded, it is going to be difficult for teams like UCF and Boise State to make it. The deck is stacked against the Group of 5. The CFP is all about the money and viewership.
I like where we're at. I think I've said all of this on here before. I'd rather be top of a "G5" conference (with access to a big bowl) than be a "P5" doormat. The American is now the clear leader of "G5" conferences and the new TV contract will solidify that perception for the new few years. We also have had some good competition the past few years. This is a good place to be.
I can't imagine what it must be like to be a booster at Vandy or Rutgers or even Geordia Tech or Baylor. Total waste of money.
I can't imagine what it must be like to be a booster at Vandy or Rutgers or even Geordia Tech or Baylor. Total waste of money.
You don’t know you will suck for eternity until you suck for eternity.
What cracks me up is these P5 coaches trying to sell the CFP to recruits
How many teams have made it? 6? 8?
I much rather would play in a NY6 bowl
How many teams have made it? 6? 8?
I much rather would play in a NY6 bowl
That's like saying that you'd rather be a hard working single mom with 3 kids and 2 jobs that doesn't need a man because she can do it all on her own ... rather than take the Elin Woods route and cruise through life with an estimated $200 million divorce settlement for doing nothing more than being a 'wide receiver'. GTF outta here.
So if the SEC came calling and said they would add UCF -- but with the caveat that we'd only earn $18 million a year, while the other teams are earning $51 mill -- you'd be OK with turning doen the P5 tag and additional $14 million a year just to 'stick ot to the man'? I call BS on that.
the thing is, will we have a losing record the first few seasons in the P5? good chance. it will take time to ramp up and recruit P5 talent, but I can't imagine UCF being a bottom dweller forever
As a fan of a P5 school, I’d have to go with P5.
Obviously the the possibility of making the playoffs is cool, but what I’d miss the most is the long-standing rivalries and series we have with other schools. I wouldn’t find as much excitement playing against Tulane, East Carolina, and Memphis as I would Penn State, WVU, Notre Dame, and Syracuse, among others. It’s nothing personal against them, but we just don’t have any sort of history.
Obviously the the possibility of making the playoffs is cool, but what I’d miss the most is the long-standing rivalries and series we have with other schools. I wouldn’t find as much excitement playing against Tulane, East Carolina, and Memphis as I would Penn State, WVU, Notre Dame, and Syracuse, among others. It’s nothing personal against them, but we just don’t have any sort of history.
Ten teams have made the CFP since its inception.
So pass up a shit ton of money, better facilities and a more interesting schedule to play these schlubs? Nah.
P5 all day. OP's original argument assumes we would be perennial bottom feeders - which is erroneous.
The bowls we have access to as a G5 are tragic if we dont hit a NY6 game. The revenue, scheduling, and recruiting advantages are obvious.
And if you aren't striving to compete at the highest level, why play at all? The world has needlepoint and nature photography for those types of people.
The bowls we have access to as a G5 are tragic if we dont hit a NY6 game. The revenue, scheduling, and recruiting advantages are obvious.
And if you aren't striving to compete at the highest level, why play at all? The world has needlepoint and nature photography for those types of people.
First of all, what makes you think USF would be competitive in the P5? Your horrible long-term record against P5 teams suggest otherwise. Not to mention do you REALLY think you could be competitive in other sports such as basketball? There's no evidence of that.
To your question: There is no pride in beating up the AAC, nor should there be. (Except UCF takes pride in it.) Most Power 5 teams want to win. Some don't have sports as their only priority. But to generalize and say that many schools actively choose to be non-competitive is ridiculous. There's a difference between the football factory schools just because of ticket revenue, merchandise and TV revenues. There always will be. But Power 5 schools want to compete against each other --academically and athletically.
You bring up basketball again? We have more Tourney wins the last 2 years combined than Pitt does. Come back when Dixon comes back.
Did anybody watch the Wisconsin vs. Northwestern game? P5 football is boooooorrrrrrrriiiiiiiinnnnnnngggggg!
My take on this divide is if we had a 16 team playoff with all 10 conferences getting automatic bids for conference champions with 6 at large spots, the P5 G5 thing kind of goes away. Sure there is a gap in money but over time I tend to think you get more parity in the sport. Top programs in all the conferences could actually tell kids,come play with us and help us win a championship.
It would be healthy for the sport versus the crap show going on now. You would get more schools willing to play the Boises and UCFs of the world. Losing a game or two wouldn't necessarily kill you. Over all there 130 Division 1 schools playing D1 football. The system is screwed up when a dozen teams only have a shot at playing for a mythical national title year in year out.
It would be healthy for the sport versus the crap show going on now. You would get more schools willing to play the Boises and UCFs of the world. Losing a game or two wouldn't necessarily kill you. Over all there 130 Division 1 schools playing D1 football. The system is screwed up when a dozen teams only have a shot at playing for a mythical national title year in year out.
Most P5 schools are relevant because of 12-15 historic programs. The rest are upper G5 level.
If you can't beat Pitt, you wouldn't survive a whole season in P5. Come back around when you have something to offer -- a TV market that brings in added revenue, a team that can consistently beat P5 opponents, etc.
Really! that is what your going with for your argument? UCF was up on PITT 31 to 21 and PITT won the game on a last minute trick play. Do you realize how lucky PITT was to get that win. This game could have gone multiple ways for both teams? Also you seems to be forgetting if UCF is in a P5 conference they would be able to recruit P5 lineman to play a P5 schedule. You opened the door for this. "What has PITT done in the last 10 years?" Come back when PITT is relevant again.
I try not call people out, but man dj, you are the problem with the sport today. You bought into this P5 crap because your team started playing football 100 years ago. Good for either, attending, graduating or just a fan of Pitt.
The system is run by a cartel in my opinion and it's harming the sport. It's an oligarchy not based on merit on the field but based on ESPN and conference whores of the SEC and Big Ten to be specific. You are a sheeple fan who just buys this bull crap being forced onto half the sport simply because teams like UCF didn't start playing football until 1979. How is this fair or honest? How does this system reward merit of hard work and ability?
Yah, you beat us on a trick play with less than minute to go. Good for you. We waxed you last year and if we play that game again, you would lose especially since the Mighty Blue Hens nearly beat you. With all that said, the system sucks. It's not based on merit , it's based on a beauty contest by a stupid committee. We need a 16 team playoff format with all schools from Pitt to UCF to Troy to Boise who if they win their conference they are in, no committee to AP polls or coaches polls. You win you're conference , you're in. Settle it on the field. That's what we should all be calling for here.
The guy is a tool. Like others have said we lost by a point on a trick play. The guys came out flat and when they woke up got a 10 point lead, then we made some mistakes with penalties. Don’t act like Pitt is anything special, at least our team has had success in the last 40-years. With that I hope PItt has a great year but to you, take a long walk on a short pier.
P5 offense is boring. Huh. Where do you think we got our offense from????? Previous coach wasn't Northern Ill. OC. Neither was our current HC.
I'm guessing morons like above has no idea that 90-99% of the P5 can't survive a whole season in P5. Come back when you actually know what NCAA football is.
I know we would compete, following the team since I set foot on campus back in 96. I think we all would enjoy being in a P5, but right now that is out of our control. So we are in the best conference we can be in at the moment. Continue to dominate, last night was fun. Make lemonade out of lemons....
P5 or whatever you want to call it is where you want to be. Bama was great, then not good, now great again. Clemson has been good lately but they weren't always great. Nebraska was great and then they haven't been for 20something years. Same with Tennessee. The disparity in money is big, and getting bigger. We need to be at the table eventually.
There is no reason to think if we have the same recruiting and financial advantages as everybody else that at some point we can't be another team that has a long run at being very, very good.
Anybody who thinks we can't doesn't understand how good we've been lately without those advantages. Since starting a real football program in 2004 we have generally been good (inconsistent at times to be sure) but looking at the hardware we've won in that short timeframe, it's impressive. I mean, in a 17 year span from 1979 to 1996 we went from Div 3 football to Div 1 football (at the time the first program to ever do it). All we've ever done is taken our lumps and earn our keep. Nothing has been handed to us because we happen to exist 100 years ago. We're not looking for handouts like half the P5 programs that pretty much just get losses and collect paychecks. If and when we get the opportunity, I'm fairly certain we're going to do something with it.
There is no reason to think if we have the same recruiting and financial advantages as everybody else that at some point we can't be another team that has a long run at being very, very good.
Anybody who thinks we can't doesn't understand how good we've been lately without those advantages. Since starting a real football program in 2004 we have generally been good (inconsistent at times to be sure) but looking at the hardware we've won in that short timeframe, it's impressive. I mean, in a 17 year span from 1979 to 1996 we went from Div 3 football to Div 1 football (at the time the first program to ever do it). All we've ever done is taken our lumps and earn our keep. Nothing has been handed to us because we happen to exist 100 years ago. We're not looking for handouts like half the P5 programs that pretty much just get losses and collect paychecks. If and when we get the opportunity, I'm fairly certain we're going to do something with it.
This isn't what I was implying by my post at all. I think UCF would be very competitive in the P5. I was directing my post towards all of the shit talkers in the P5 who think they are superior to UCF just because they claim P5 status, even though their teams consistently finish the season with losing records. I was simply trying to point out that I'd rather be in the G5 and consistently win than be a fan of a team in the P5 who loses year in and year out.
Meanwhile the mighty P5 are scheduling Towson State (FL) and Delaware State (Pitt) because they are scared shitless of blowing their chance of getting into a pathetic CFP system. Today's college football landscape is like the 60s/70s when we had the AFL and NFL with one league saying how much better they were. In reality when they merged both pro leagues the game improved for EVERYBODY! More fans, more money and better competition...
I'd argue it may be easier in the ACC this year than it is in the AAC.
To the OP, I don't know exactly where this idea of being in a P5 conference brings an elitism thing comes from. Probably just a few internet warriors that like to troll, but the vast majority of fans don't claim superiority based on their conference affiliation. In the end, the average fan only brags about wins and losses. Go 3-8, nothing to brag about. Go 12-0, yeah you've got something to talk about.
That being said, it's not exactly a shocker that the P5 conferences in general are probably better than mid-majors and few would be able to argue against it. There are always exceptions to the rule, but the rule probably does have validity. Nebraska sucks balls this year and would probably lose to Memphis, Cincinnati, ucf, bsu pretty handily but the likelihood of having a winning record in the AAC or MWC is probably a lot higher than having one in the Sec or Big10. That's not a slam on any team and I sure as heck wouldn't tout a victory over Illinois more than a victory over UCF, but there is a reason that p5 conferences generally get more respect than g5s.
There's a reason why you guys tout a victory over Auburn moreso than a victory over USF even if they have the same record.
That being said, it's not exactly a shocker that the P5 conferences in general are probably better than mid-majors and few would be able to argue against it. There are always exceptions to the rule, but the rule probably does have validity. Nebraska sucks balls this year and would probably lose to Memphis, Cincinnati, ucf, bsu pretty handily but the likelihood of having a winning record in the AAC or MWC is probably a lot higher than having one in the Sec or Big10. That's not a slam on any team and I sure as heck wouldn't tout a victory over Illinois more than a victory over UCF, but there is a reason that p5 conferences generally get more respect than g5s.
There's a reason why you guys tout a victory over Auburn moreso than a victory over USF even if they have the same record.
Despite the fact that Pitt beat UCF at home by 1 point, don't get it twisted that Pitt is all the sudden some world beaters. Pitt absolutely played lights out and UCF came out expecting Pitt to roll over and got punched in the mouth. The team wasn't fired up like it normally is and came out flat footed. After they realized what was happening, there was 31 unanswered points. If they prepared for the game like they normally do, we wouldn't have been down 21-0.
I'm not excusing that loss, but don't think for a second Pitt is actually better than UCF this year. I'll give you props for beating the team, but UCF is far more talented than the game you saw. You guys do a phenomenal job beating teams you shouldn't beat, but just like usf - there is no consistency. Also, this notion that UCF wouldn't survive a P5 schedule implies that the current recruits on the team are what we would be recruiting while in the ACC, which is fundamentally false.
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