The World We Live In Today
- Thread starter sk8knight
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i believe people can become addicted to video games. hell i was as a teen. i played countless hours of counter strike at a high level. but video games dont make people kill others.
If "video games" can be used to teach and simulate real world situations, why couldn't they potentially be detrimental to a developing mind in certain contexts? There's a huge leap between having an impact on something and causation.
There is zero reason to entertain such insane hypothetical scenarios when we have actual empiracle data showing that:
1) Every single developed country has video games
2) Not every single developed country has a mass shooting epidemic
It's painfully obvious they aren't to blame.
I didn’t say that. I said that addiction has severe consequences in young people and when mixed with other factors, it can be toxic and dangerous.
You guys need to go one step above the bare bones “video games = killing” since no one is saying that
QUOTE="NinjaKnight, post: 1653981, member: 950"]There is zero reason to entertain such insane hypothetical scenarios when we have actual empiracle data showing that:
1) Every single developed country has video games
2) Not every single developed country has a mass shooting epidemic
It's painfully obvious they aren't to blame.[/QUOTE]
Yeap.
1) Every single developed country has video games
2) Not every single developed country has a mass shooting epidemic
It's painfully obvious they aren't to blame.[/QUOTE]
Yeap.
The ironic thing is that you have people in this conversation who make or made money training soldiers and LEOs using simulators and video game technology that are saying it has an impact. That doesn’t make us experts but it does give us a point of view that others in the thread don’t have. But whatever, nuance is dead, absolutes are the order of the day.
i guess you didnt read the part where i said i agreed with you. video game addiction is real and can cause problems.
i made a separate statement about video games and video game addiction having no real link to shootings.
Yeap.[/QUOTE]
And every country has sugary drinks but we have a problem with childhood obesity that others don't. Geez, maybe the sugary drinks and snacks aren't the problem. Yours is a stupid narrative that is absolutely irrelevant in this conversation because every country is different.
No clear thinking person would say "yeah, I can let my 12 year old kid go through the same computer simulations that the military uses to desensitize soldiers to the idea of killing someone and it won't affect them", but that's exactly what you are doing.
What some people are trying to say here isn't even controversial.
Behavioral addictions, such as excessive reliance on pornography, can lead to neurochemical changes in the brain. I could have a VR porn addiction in my basement that leads to me developing a host of anti social and unhealthy behaviors.
Does that mean I'm definitely going to withdraw from my partner, or cheat, or engage in risky or deviant sexual behavior? Not necessarily. But there is zero argument that in some people it pushes you in a direction where you might be more likely to make poor decisions.
Again , we can do this with any type of behavior addiction. So why then, logically speaking, would video game addiction be exempt from pushing undeveloped minds towards an unhealthy state? Are we just dismissing the posted research?
There are steps to this. No one is saying you go from playing a game straight to shooting up a school. But it's clear as day video game ADDICTION can lead to loneliness, aggression and hostility. Wtf do you think that's a potential recipe for?
Behavioral addictions, such as excessive reliance on pornography, can lead to neurochemical changes in the brain. I could have a VR porn addiction in my basement that leads to me developing a host of anti social and unhealthy behaviors.
Does that mean I'm definitely going to withdraw from my partner, or cheat, or engage in risky or deviant sexual behavior? Not necessarily. But there is zero argument that in some people it pushes you in a direction where you might be more likely to make poor decisions.
Again , we can do this with any type of behavior addiction. So why then, logically speaking, would video game addiction be exempt from pushing undeveloped minds towards an unhealthy state? Are we just dismissing the posted research?
There are steps to this. No one is saying you go from playing a game straight to shooting up a school. But it's clear as day video game ADDICTION can lead to loneliness, aggression and hostility. Wtf do you think that's a potential recipe for?
And every country has sugary drinks but we have a problem with childhood obesity that others don't. Geez, maybe the sugary drinks and snacks aren't the problem. Yours is a stupid narrative that is absolutely irrelevant in this conversation because every country is different.
No clear thinking person would say "yeah, I can let my 12 year old kid go through the same computer simulations that the military uses to desensitize soldiers to the idea of killing someone and it won't affect them", but that's exactly what you are doing.[/QUOTE]
yeap.
And every country has sugary drinks but we have a problem with childhood obesity that others don't. Geez, maybe the sugary drinks and snacks aren't the problem. Yours is a stupid narrative that is absolutely irrelevant in this conversation because every country is different.
No clear thinking person would say "yeah, I can let my 12 year old kid go through the same computer simulations that the military uses to desensitize soldiers to the idea of killing someone and it won't affect them", but that's exactly what you are doing.[/QUOTE]
Actually, the United States doesn't even crack the top 10 for countries with most obese children.
So congrats, you yet again prove yourself to be a moron.
Source: https://www.theclever.com/15-countries-that-are-killing-their-kids-with-obesity/
Wtf are you talking about? Lol. There are hundreds of thousands of certified crazy people in this country and they aren’t driving 10 hours to kill Mexicans or shooting up synagogues and churches.
I dont think anyone is denying that video games and media can have an impact to some degree. I think the problem is the people tend to overstate the impact, and it is done as away to move the argument away from guns. Access to guns is why we have this problem and most other countries dont. We could look at any other reason in the world to why it happens and find some truth behind those reasons, but if we remove discussion access to guns from the conversation, then it quite simply isnt a serious conversation.
That’s not what he’s saying. Christ. What he’s saying is that we have unaddressed addiction to MANY things, video games included, that go totally unaddressed. I mean we have people in this very thread mocking the idea that any connection between video games and violence is insane. Replace video games with social media and the result is the same. Or booze. Or opioids.
There are murders every single day at the hands of people who fall into those categories. They go without notice since the media only cares about mass shootings. It doesn’t make the epidemic any less true.
Research tells us that a precursor to homicide is a disconnection from human suffering and empathy. Being sucked into ANY online addiction like video games or social media makes the ability to empathize or engage socially less likely for young people. We know this. Know how? Research and peer reviewed science.
I wasnt repeating what he was saying, I was making my point. So I know that isnt what he was saying.
Again, all the other research is fine, I have no problems with it. But, what do we do about guns? Not to beat a dead horse, but other countries have all the technology we do, without the access to guns. So you can't possibly deny that access to guns also drives a lot of the violence.
Other countries are so wildly different than the US beyond the one topic of guns that you can’t marginalize it to that. But we’re going around in circles with you since we’ve had this debate before.
You are more than welcome not to quote me or reply to me. Kind of an odd flex to quote someones post, only to basically tell them you dont want to converse with them, but ok.
You have already stated that you refuse to accept that we can do anything to change culture and you continue to pound your “ban guns” platform so you don’t have a place in a conversation about how we can change the culture when you come back with “ban guns.”
Not sure who died and made you king but you dont decide in what conversations I have a place or not. You responded to me in this thread, not the other way around, so I am not sure where the hostility is coming from since you initiated the conversation with me. But regardless, if you dont want to converse with me, then dont. But you are more than welcome to **** the hell off if you think you are just going to sit and lecture me. Plus, I never said "ban guns", dont put words in my mouth.
I would suggest just not quoting me when you dont want to converse with me. Still not sure what your issue is, but it isnt difficult to just not quote me or respond to me.
I don't know how you haven't figured this out yet, but sk8 has a few issues with reality.
What in the hell are you talking about? That has absolutely nothing to do with anything I said.
Goddamn it's infuriating how yall intentionally refuse to listen to what is being said.
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Ban access to guns, I don't care. Remove guns and the same underlying problems of despair aggression, depression etc exist. Yall can have that argument all you want, it's uninteresting to me. I only chimed in when people wanted to comment on addictive behavior as if the science isn't clear.
I haven't commented on anything related to gun laws in this thread.
Now you know how we feel. There’s a mountain of evidence against the video game theory, even beyond the fact we don’t if these fools even play video games. Yet it continues to be brought up. They may all be Connect 4 Grandmasters for all we know.
nearly every single kid plays some kind of video game and lets not forget the millions of adults. how are we not wading through rivers of blood? those damn video games...
The issue is that you're so hung up on GUNS! that you're refusing to look past the method of violence into WHY we have violence to begin with. Other countries absolutely have homicide and violence, and I hope you wouldn't refute that. If you tell me your desire is to ban all firearms then fine. I would disagree but let's just assume you get your way. What does that change about the legions of people and kids who are completely void of reality and locked into bullshit fake realities via addiction on gaming platforms, social media, or otherwise? They will still lash out and commit violence if this goes untreated.
Is it acceptable for 2 people to die via a knife but not acceptable if 6 people die by a gun?
I know you're not this obtuse so I don't know why you keep taking what is clearly a more complex issue, that we've presented at least 6 times, and reducing it to some caveman type argument.
im just curious if south korea has the same problems. they sell out arenas for video game tournaments. a friend of mine used to live there for years and was actually one of the color commentators on a tv for those tournaments. maybe ill ask him if he thinks there is a link.
but seriously i dont deny video game addiction. that is very real. as for link to killings, you are going to really have to prove why that link doesnt seem to manifest in south korea and japan where video game culture is significantly more ingrained in the culture than here. oh yea, and dont forget all the other various countries around the world.
It's a different culture entirely. Although, it is more and more westernized every time I go over there. Their culture is far more family-oriented and it doesn't seem as usual for people to become isolated. They also are highly educated, moreso than the economy needs. You have PhDs working menial jobs over there. Because of their strong sense of honor to the family, they have a high suicide rate (one of the highest in the developed world) because they don't want their failures to be a drain on their families. The RoK has strict firearm laws (such as GPS tracking of firearms) so they find other means, such as poisoning, hanging, and bridge jumping.
Their TV and social media is heavily regulated by the government. Their violent crime is largely tied to well-organized groups, including Russian and Chinese. While there are gangster movies and shows, I haven't seen the prevalence of violence in the popular culture that is present here in the US. Even though they have been occupied by China or Japan for most of their history, they are a pretty non-diverse population. They don't get a lot of immigration.
It's hard to compare the two. As it is with really any country. The US is truly different. We're going to have to solve our own problems.
Did you even read the link to the research paper that I provided? In Japan and S Korea, the government literally started intervention programs whereby kids were sent to the hospital to undertake a "cold turkey" regime to alleviate their addiction to gaming and the widespread social wellbeing problems that it created. They recognized that they had ticking time bombs in these kids who demonstrated all of the signs of anti-social, possibly aggressive or violent behavior due to their addiction, and they intervened.
This is the POINT we are trying to make. We don't do that here. We think we're comparing apples to apples (people play games in Asia too!!!) but we aren't. They take mental health and mental stability in their youth much more seriously than we do. And we have a legion of parents who think that their kid sitting on an Xbox for 7 hours a day is just fine.
Repost:
In South-East Asian countries, the negative impacts of Internet gaming addiction have led governments and health care providers to take the problem seriously and to develop a series of initiatives to curb and alleviate the problem. In South Korea, Internet gaming addiction is viewed as a significant concern for public health,29 and up to 24% of children who have been diagnosed with Internet addiction are hospitalized.30 In Japan, the government has recognized the problem following a study by the Ministry of Education, which has led to the development of “fasting camps” where individuals suffering from Internet and gaming addiction are helped by being cut off from technology completely.31 It has been stated that the higher the Internet penetration and social acceptance of gaming, the higher the prevalence of gaming problems,32 partially explaining the higher prevalence rates reported in South-East Asian countries
yup, video game addiction is real problem. i never said it wasnt. im glad we can all agree on that. parents need to limit their kids time playing video games. that would help a number of kids both here and abroad.
Culture - - - - - - > Gun laws/access
You literally cannot have a discussion on social norms/rules/laws without first discussing and understanding culture. Otherwise you end up with the same crazy people stabbing instead of shooting. But hey, as long as the numbers are lower who cares about modeling a more optimal system.
Nobody in here is saying a video game alone made someone go kill. Listen to what is being said.
I’ll take mass stabbing over mass shootings. I agree you have to look at culture as a whole, and not immediately deflect to video games or mental illness. If a foreign terrorist commits an attack their ideology is the only thing discussed, why isn’t it the same for domestic terrorist.
Lol of course it is. You just don’t ever listen to anything beyond MSNBC. Every terrorist attack was followed by multiple news organizations looking into the conditions and environments the attackers came from and how a warped mental state could make extremist ideology more attractive and lend itself to violence
The narrative after 9/11 from the government and mainstream conservative news was nothing more than " they hate us for our freedom". Hardly what I would consider looking into the environment of the attackers.
