Trump immigration plan

Discussion in 'The Water Cooler' started by UCFWayne, May 16, 2019.

  1. UCFWayne

    UCFWayne Diamond Knight
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  2. DaShuckster

    DaShuckster Silver Knight
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    A plan that doesn't address the 3.6 million dreamers living in this country doesn't sound like much of an immigration plan to me.
     
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  3. Crazyhole

    Crazyhole Golden Knight
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    One thing I can say with almost 100% certainty on this: it will be a plan that anyone without a political agenda will agree on. Secure the border, make sure that we know who is coming in, give preference to people who will improve quality of life, define asylum and streamline the process for those who actually need it, and make sure that we arent affecting the domestic labor market in a negative way.


    Yep, no chance in hell it passes.
     
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  4. UCFWayne

    UCFWayne Diamond Knight
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    perhaps thats something that could be done separately.
     
  5. DaShuckster

    DaShuckster Silver Knight
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    Yeah, why deal with the elephant in the room? :rolleyes:
     
  6. UCFWayne

    UCFWayne Diamond Knight
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    because its going to be hard enough to get both sides to come together on immigration reform let alone the dreamers. maybe one thing at a time would be the best approach. otherwise nothing is getting done.

    i have a feeling nothing will get done.
     
  7. UCFKnight85

    UCFKnight85 GOL's Inner Circle
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    The elephant in the room is the mass illegal immigration occurring at our border that is ill-manned, ill-fortified, and lacks a lot of what CBP professionals have been telling us they need for years. Such as 400 miles of additional border fence/wall/whatever.

    Secure the border first. Anything else is an insult.
     
  8. Crazyhole

    Crazyhole Golden Knight
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    Because they tried that back in the 80s, and one side backed out on their agreement. There is absolutely no faith or trust left that would lead any clear thinking person to try the same approach again.
     
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  9. UCFWayne

    UCFWayne Diamond Knight
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    Among the provisions included in the proposal:
    • Wall construction “in high priority locations," though there are no details about how that might be determined.
    • Eliminating the so-called "visa lottery," a program created in 1990 that attempts to balance where immigrants come from by granting green cards to some 50,000 people from regions that traditionally have fewer migrants leaving for the U.S. While supporters say it helps makes sure that migrants come from many different countries, opponents have questioned how well those immigrants are screened.
    • The plan would create a “Build America Visa” for qualified migrants, easing their entry into the United States. Immigrants could qualify by a point system based on “extraordinary talent,” “professional and specialized vocation,” or being an “exceptional student.”
    • Applicants could rack up "eligibility points" several ways, such as by taking a U.S. civics course, submitting to a health screening and passing a criminal background check. Age, English proficiency, job offers and educational attainment would also count.
    i think they should consider expanding the total number of people coming in each year. i dont know why they wouldnt suggest a modest bump.

    both sides have to feel like they got something from this to make it work.
     
  10. sk8knight

    sk8knight Golden Knight
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    I think they need to make a justification to the citizens why we need to expand the total number coming in. If there’s a reason other than bleeding hearts or democrat votes, then fine. But let’s not do things like bitch about blue collar wage stagnation and then import more blue collar workers. Let’s not talk about increasing social programs and then increase the number of net takers without having a good reason and a plan for them becoming net producers.
     
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  11. goodknightfl

    goodknightfl Todd's Tiki Bar
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    there is no compromise in Washington at this time, This is dead on arrival and does not matter.
     
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  12. Crazyhole

    Crazyhole Golden Knight
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    As of today, we don't need more workers. In 5 years that could be a totally different deal though. In all honesty, the existing immigration system isnt too far off from what we need, its just too bad that we deviated from it for the last 40 years.
     
  13. UCFWayne

    UCFWayne Diamond Knight
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    i think you are right, but im glad to see them at least try. one side is offering solutions. while everyone might not like they are at least trying. the other side is basically saying i am against everything the other side is for.
     
  14. fried-chicken

    fried-chicken Golden Knight
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    So the goal is to fill the high paying jobs with foreigners and stop filling low paying jobs with them. Yikes.
     
  15. UCFWayne

    UCFWayne Diamond Knight
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    are you admitting that the illegal immigrants have flooded the low wage market thus keeping that pay from rising? yikes
     
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  16. fried-chicken

    fried-chicken Golden Knight
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    Yeah, I want Americans to do high paying jobs not get paid more for low paying jobs.
     
  17. UCFWayne

    UCFWayne Diamond Knight
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    why do you think only illegal immigrants should be working the low paying jobs? that seems racists of you.
     
  18. fried-chicken

    fried-chicken Golden Knight
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    Illegal immigrants work a seperate pool of jobs with very little crossover for American citizens.
     
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  19. fried-chicken

    fried-chicken Golden Knight
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    All of our "libertarians" should know that the labor market is ruled by supply and demand like any other market and the more efficient market is free of outside influence. The illegal labor market is no different. Stopping it doesn't help Americans at all. It harms them. There are millions of unfilled low paying jobs right now that are impacting our GDP.

    In a time of high unemployment controlling immigrating makes sense to protect workers. This is not the time to strangle out production. Of course this isn't about the economy at all its about brown people.
     
  20. UCFKnight85

    UCFKnight85 GOL's Inner Circle
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    Actually it's about enforcing basic Federal Immigration Law that Congress passed years ago. Your pathetic attempts to race bait and make this about racism won't detract from that.

    You apparently aren't even smart enough to understand that the structural reforms being sought by Trump apply to legal immigration. What you are trying to insist that these reforms are applicable to illegal immigration which exists outside of basic legality to begin with.
     
  21. 91foxbody

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    I don’t see how this plan assuages any of Trump’s followers fears/issues/whatever with South American immigrants jumping the boarder and working on farms/etc.
     
  22. UCFWayne

    UCFWayne Diamond Knight
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    i think like others have said, this is going no where.

    honestly even if he had created a really balanced proposal, one both sides would like/hate, i dont think he would get much support across the aisle right now.

    that is very sad as it seems like he is at least willing to make some sort of deal.
     
  23. 91foxbody

    91foxbody Silver Knight
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    I agree, it’s a shame. He’s been so far to the right on immigration that if he offered a middle of the road plan you’d like to think it would get immediate approval but I don’t think it’s ever going to happen.
     
  24. Husk in butt

    Husk in butt Bronze Knight
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    You want highly educated immigrants that actually pays taxes. Just common sense.


    Why don't we flood Stanford with D students. Why are they trying to be so mean?
     
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  25. UCFWayne

    UCFWayne Diamond Knight
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    • Applicants could rack up "eligibility points" several ways, such as by taking a U.S. civics course, submitting to a health screening and passing a criminal background check. Age, English proficiency, job offers and educational attainment would also count.
    that seems pretty reasonable to me.
     
  26. sk8knight

    sk8knight Golden Knight
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    Rather than amnesty, assign the points that the illegal immigrants already in country have earned and then process the ones that make the cut. For the rest, make themselves legal by either obtaining a VISA or going back to their previous country and then follow the proposed system. This way everyone is accounted for and treated equally.
     
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  27. UCFWayne

    UCFWayne Diamond Knight
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    thats a quality idea. but i think these things should be done separately.
     
  28. UCFBS

    UCFBS Diamond Knight
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    I just want to see 2 things.
    1. Organized crime be hurt ... badly. The US has a gun homicide rate that is 85% organized crime, where other, developed countries are 10% or less. This US' rate is too close to a rate of an active insurrection, like in the Philippines ... with similar movement of drugs, guns and human trafficking.
    2. US veterans with an honorable discharge to be granted citizenship and never deported, no matter what they did after their service. They've earned the right to remain in US jails for any crime, after serving.
    Give me those 2 things, and I'll support it. Right now the Democrats ignore #1, both parties ignore #2 (it's a 'lower priority' for the left), and the 2 parties argue over whether unpaid labor can claim Welfare or not. Democrats say they should, Republicans say they should not -- but in the end, it's because they are not paid fair, because of their status, that is the problem both parties love, for their rich, corporate overlords. The number of immigrants, legal or not, still on Welfare after a decade is the problem ... long-term. Their opportunities are limited, especially under 'work visas' when legal.
     
  29. DaShuckster

    DaShuckster Silver Knight
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    Trump says that he wants a new immigration policy that favors skilled workers over family. Pelosi announced that his plan was D.O.A.

    If Trump and his Republican cohorts were really interested in a revised immigration policy, it seems to me that there's a perfect compromise out there just waiting for everybody to buy into.

    The Compromise: Trump says the first immigrants to legally immigrate under this new policy are the DACA people. They are first because: 1) they speak English; 2) they are educated; 3) they are ingrained in the culture; and 4) it resolves a long-standing issue in a clean and simple way.

    Like other new immigrants, they don't become citizens automatically but they are on the path to citizenship. In exchange, Congressional Democrats allow a policy change that focuses on bringing in more highly skilled people in areas where we have shortages.

    Pretty crazy idea, right guys?
     
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  30. UCFKnight85

    UCFKnight85 GOL's Inner Circle
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    Here's another crazy idea - fix the border, stop illegal immigration, and then talk about issuing yet another round of amnesty for those here illegally.

    Oh, what's that? We've done your idea many times in the past and it's always worked to grant amnesty, but the Government never actually followed through on securing the border? Oh my, shocking to find that out!

    Crazy how people aren't believing that yet another Amnesty-then-security measure would be sooooooooo different this time around!
     
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  31. DaShuckster

    DaShuckster Silver Knight
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    Trump is the one proposing a new immigration policy. I'm simply suggesting a way he can achieve it if that's a genuine goal of his.

    But your response underlines the problem we have in politics today. We'd rather strengthen our political street cred than actually try to figure out ways to work together and solve the problem.

    The hard reality of the immigration 'crisis' is that Trump feels its in his best interest for reelection to perpetuate the problem rather than reach out to the Congress men and women on the other side of the aisle to fix it.
     
  32. UCFWayne

    UCFWayne Diamond Knight
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    you actually made a really good post. im all for that plan. i dont know why that offer isnt on the table. i would also add the current crisis right now, it needs funding. they dont have enough room or supplies for these poor people. then they need beef up border security, including better walls in certain areas.
     
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  33. DaShuckster

    DaShuckster Silver Knight
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    Who says Wayne is incapable of making a brilliant observation? ;)

    While my DACA suggestion was intended as a means to 'sell' Trump's immigration plan the reality is that the fate of the DACA young people is a HUGE bargaining chip for the Republicans when it comes to border security in general. You can't convince me that they couldn't use it to get the funding they need to address the influx of immigrants seeking asylum if they really wanted to address the issue. I'm not convinced they really do.
     
    33 DaShuckster, May 20, 2019
    Last edited: May 20, 2019
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  34. UCFWayne

    UCFWayne Diamond Knight
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    politicians rarely like to actually fix problems. instead they like to prolong them as a means to keep getting re-elected. thus i want a smaller gov.
     
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  35. DaShuckster

    DaShuckster Silver Knight
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    Once upon a time they did. Ronald Reagan had a pretty impressive first term because he was able to schmooz Congressional Democrats instead of demonizing them.

    In this century, the new approach is to do everything in your power to NOT give the President any legislative "wins." Somehow this is supposed to help our country.

    I'm afraid smaller government doesn't equal smaller problems
     
  36. DaShuckster

    DaShuckster Silver Knight
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    Funny how this bill-passing process works in Congress. Fixing immigration (i.e. more funding) requires the Republicans to work out a deal with the Democrats. When the President and Congressional Republicans have a golden bargaining chip like DACA, it’s disingenuous for conservatives to whine that nothing is being done because of those ‘lawless Democrats.’

    Ronald Reagan would have had a deal a long time ago if he were President today. The only reason we don’t have more funds to address the influx of asylum seekers is because Trump doesn’t want to fix the problem. It’s to his advantage to keep his Red Hats jazzed up over it.
     
  37. UCFWayne

    UCFWayne Diamond Knight
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    sure its all trumps fault. it has nothing to do with the none stop negative new coverage of trump from the msm, hollywood, or even members of congress. its all on trump for not reaching out.

    face it your side doesnt even want to be seen talking to trump, let alone trying to make a deal. anytime a member tries to reach across the line they are hounded like crazy for doing so. trump tried to make a deal with daca at the beginning of his presidency, or do you not remember that?
     
  38. DaShuckster

    DaShuckster Silver Knight
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    Yes, it's on Trump and the Republicans in Congress for not reaching out. How it could be the media's fault that Congress hasn't worked out an immigration deal is beyond me.

    Given the current climate, I would normally agree with you. But the dangling carrot of a resolution to the DACA issue would, IMHO, be too much for the Democrats to ignore.

    Seems to me that in all of our bluster to argue for 'Our Side,' we've forgotten that deal-making is the way things actually get done in Washington. For all the talk about President Reagan's conservatism, it was his ability to work with Congress to get things done that made him successful.
     
    38 DaShuckster, May 21, 2019
    Last edited: May 21, 2019
  39. UCFWayne

    UCFWayne Diamond Knight
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    trump literally went across the aisle to work with the dems offering daca in exchange for his wall. you are claiming its trumps fault. he literally tried this just a few years ago. that dangling carrot is to much to ignore? yea they will ignore it again. nothing is happening until after 2020 election.
     
  40. UCFBS

    UCFBS Diamond Knight
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    Especially when states are letting them vote ... including state sanctioning federal election fraud.

    It's fine if states and local governments want to allow them to vote in state and local elections. But the federal ballots must be omitted.
     

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