Vigilante Justice on Trial in Georgia

[DaShuckster]

Yeah, yet another self-appointed neighborhood watchdog who killed a suspicious Black man in the neighborhood. (This one has the audacity to jog through their neighborhood and ...gasp!...stop at a home construction site for a drink of water. But unlike Fat George Zimmerman's trial in Florida, Bubba Daddy McMichael and Bubba Junior McMichael had the misfortune of having a buddy (also charged) videotape the whole thing. Now THAT's one clever fella!

I was waiting for _glaciers to start a "when the McMichaels inevitably walk.." thread and a bunch of enthusiastic pre-trial posts but apparently after the Minneapolis videotape of Floyd's murder actually got a bad cop convicted, our WC crew are apparently not as convinced these Georgia amateur Barney Fifes won't get convicted too.

IMHO, rhis case was always one of the most god-awful examples of a Southern "Good ole Boy" racist system so it will be interesting to see how this trial plays out.

Murder trial in Ahmaud Arbery’s killing begins with sparring over questions about race

 

[goodknightfl]

I remember this from when it happened. There was no reason for what they did. Keeping an eye on someone you don't recognize is different, than confronting the guy and killing him. George Zimmerman was a totally different thing he never confronted the kid, The kid attacked him, and the only reason race was ever part of it, was the press doctored the 911 call and made it sound racist. Zimmerman never said anything about race, until specifically asked by the 911 operator, and he said he thought the kid was black.

 

[Crazyhole]

Not sure what the charges are specifically but I can't see a scenario where at least the dad and son don't get prison time. I always thought the guy with the camera wasn't really guilty of anything substantial.

 

[Crazyhole]

Video shows killing of Ahmaud Arbery

Video has emerged of the killing of Arbery whose family says he was out jogging when he was shot dead by two armed men.

www.aljazeera.com

It does seem strange that Arbery kept running towards the guy with the gun. Pretty sure that wasn't a wise decision.

 

[DaShuckster]

One of the most egregious aspects of this case in an event full of them is that the McMichaels were free to go home after the incident and a police officer was dispatched to tell the victim's mother that her son died during the commission of a crime.

 

[sk8knight]

I think they’re guilty of some form of murder (haven’t looked at the Georgia laws much). But there’s some context that the jury will never see but might be relevant if the idiots knew. Primarily, the media never covered anything about Arbery’s patterns of behavior. Nonetheless, these guys didn’t need to go chase him down in today’s society and thus must pay for the results of their unacceptable actions.

Ahmaud Arbery Case: Seven Facts the Jury Will (Probably) Never Hear

Live trial coverage starts Monday, October 18, here at Legal Insurrection.

legalinsurrection.com

 

[Knight In TN]

I think they’re guilty of some form of murder (haven’t looked at the Georgia laws much). But there’s some context that the jury will never see but might be relevant if the idiots knew. Primarily, the media never covered anything about Arbery’s patterns of behavior. Nonetheless, these guys didn’t need to go chase him down in today’s society and thus must pay for the results of their unacceptable actions.

Ahmaud Arbery Case: Seven Facts the Jury Will (Probably) Never Hear

Live trial coverage starts Monday, October 18, here at Legal Insurrection.

legalinsurrection.com

Yeah, this is an interesting case because the biggest takeaway for most people should be about what your role is in stopping crime. There’s just no reason for you to confront someone you think might be stealing from a construction site.

You call the police and go about your day.

But confronting someone with a gun? That’s not the same as defending yourself or your property.

 

[DaShuckster]

I think they’re guilty of some form of murder (haven’t looked at the Georgia laws much). But there’s some context that the jury will never see but might be relevant if the idiots knew. Primarily, the media never covered anything about Arbery’s patterns of behavior.

Patterns of behavior? The only 'pattern' here is he was once charged with shoplifting.

As far as 'casing' the construction site, he -- and many other people -- visited it off-hours for a drink of water.

 

[Crazyhole]

Yeah, this is an interesting case because the biggest takeaway for most people should be about what your role is in stopping crime. There’s just no reason for you to confront someone you think might be stealing from a construction site.

You call the police and go about your day.

But confronting someone with a gun? That’s not the same as defending yourself or your property.

Don't tell shuckster that. He'll ask why society has gotten to the point where they don't step in anymore.

 

[Cubs79]

Don't tell shuckster that. He'll ask why society has gotten to the point where they don't step in anymore.

Killing someone because you think they stole something from a construction site, and stepping in when someone is in physical danger are not remotely the same thing.

 

[Cubs79]

Yeah, this is an interesting case because the biggest takeaway for most people should be about what your role is in stopping crime. There’s just no reason for you to confront someone you think might be stealing from a construction site.

You call the police and go about your day.

But confronting someone with a gun? That’s not the same as defending yourself or your property.

This case isnt that interesting from a moral or legal standpoint. No one with any amount of common sense or decency would think killing someone for being on a construction site is justified behavior.

 

[Crazyhole]

Killing someone because you think they stole something from a construction site, and stepping in when someone is in physical danger are not remotely the same thing.

He was killed because he wrestled with a guy that had a gun. That can go both ways.

 

[Knight In TN]

This case isnt that interesting from a moral or legal standpoint. No one with any amount of common sense or decency would think killing someone for being on a construction site is justified behavior.

This case doesn’t have anything to say to people who think they need to enforce the law even without a badge? Ok.

 

[Cubs79]

He was killed because he wrestled with a guy that had a gun. That can go both ways.

Oh give me a break. They chased him down with a truck and got out threatening him with a gun. So by your logic, if someone chases you down with a gun, it would be your fault for trying to defend yourself? Get that bullshit out of here, they caused call of this to happen and you most certainly know it.

 

[Cubs79]

This case doesn’t have anything to say to people who think they need to enforce the law even without a badge? Ok.

Enforce what law? Has it even been proven he broke a law? I am seriously asking that, it is been a while so I read about this case. But if not, then you cant say they were enforcing the law. Obviously there are situations where someones is in physical danger where bystanders stepping in is justified. But I cant see how anyone thinks it is a good idea to essentially tell people it is ok to shoot someone if you "think" they committed a crime. We have courts to decide that.

 

[Knight In TN]

Patterns of behavior? The only 'pattern' here is he was once charged with shoplifting.

As far as 'casing' the construction site, he -- and many other people -- visited it off-hours for a drink of water.

I don’t know what he was doing, but I sincerely doubt “many other people” visit construction sites off-hours for a drink of water.

It’s suspicious for people who don’t belong there to be in a construction site when nobody else is there.

That doesn’t justify chasing them down and confronting them with a gun. That’s none of your business. They should have let the police know if they felt it was suspicious. But they wanted to play cops and robbers and they’ll hopefully be locked up as a result.

But don’t act like off-hours construction sites are totally normal to be stopping at for a drink of water.

 

[Cubs79]

I don’t know what he was doing, but I sincerely doubt “many other people” visit construction sites off-hours for a drink of water.

It’s suspicious for people who don’t belong there to be in a construction site when nobody else is there.

That doesn’t justify chasing them down and confronting them with a gun. That’s none of your business. They should have let the police know if they felt it was suspicious. But they wanted to play cops and robbers and they’ll hopefully be locked up as a result.

But don’t act like off-hours construction sites are totally normal to be stopping at for a drink of water.

People walk in houses under construction all the time, that isnt that unusual especially in rural areas or suburban neighborhoods. Technically it is trespassing sure, but no one in their right mind thinks it is worthy of being killed over.

 

[Knight In TN]

Enforce what law? Has it even been proven he broke a law? I am seriously asking that, it is been a while so I read about this case. But if not, then you cant say they were enforcing the law. Obviously there are situations where someones is in physical danger where bystanders stepping in is justified. But I cant see how anyone thinks it is a good idea to essentially tell people it is ok to shoot someone if you "think" they committed a crime. We have courts to decide that.

They THINK they’re enforcing the law. I didn’t say they WERE. That’s not their job and they shouldn’t do it. That’s the whole point of my post.

You’re so ready to argue you didn’t even read what I said.

 

[Cubs79]

They THINK they’re enforcing the law. I didn’t say they WERE. That’s not their job and they shouldn’t do it. That’s the whole point of my post.

You’re so ready to argue you didn’t even read what I said.

Who cares what they think they are doing, if you murder someone you are a murderer, no matter if you "think" you are doing the right thing or not. Everyone obviously deserves there day in court, but based on the video I dont see how anyone can remotely find any level of nuance in this case.

 

[sk8knight]

Enforce what law? Has it even been proven he broke a law? I am seriously asking that, it is been a while so I read about this case. But if not, then you cant say they were enforcing the law. Obviously there are situations where someones is in physical danger where bystanders stepping in is justified. But I cant see how anyone thinks it is a good idea to essentially tell people it is ok to shoot someone if you "think" they committed a crime. We have courts to decide that.

I don’t know about Georgia but it is a felony offense to trespass on a marked construction site. If, and there’s no indication of this, these guys knew Arbery’s history of posing as a jogger in order to commit theft, then maybe there’s a justification for them apprehending him. But todays society doesn’t condone that type of behavior. Which these idiots should’ve known before they created a life or death situation.

 

[Cubs79]

I don’t know about Georgia but it is a felony offense to trespass on a marked construction site. If, and there’s no indication of this, these guys knew Arbery’s history of posing as a jogger in order to commit theft, then maybe there’s a justification for them apprehending him. But todays society doesn’t condone that type of behavior. Which these idiots should’ve known before they created a life or death situation.

Even if that is the case that isnt a crime worthy of the death penalty, and he still deserved his day in court.

 

[Crazyhole]

Oh give me a break. They chased him down with a truck and got out threatening him with a gun. So by your logic, if someone chases you down with a gun, it would be your fault for trying to defend yourself? Get that bullshit out of here, they caused call of this to happen and you most certainly know it.

Do you ever actually read what someone posts? I said right out of the gate that the father and son likely deserve prison time, then the topic of conversation changed to stepping in or not stepping in. You never know what's going to happen unless you mind your own business.

 

[Cubs79]

Do you ever actually read what someone posts? I said right out of the gate that the father and son likely deserve prison time, then the topic of conversation changed to stepping in or not stepping in. You never know what's going to happen unless you mind your own business.

You said he was wrestling with a guy with a gun, so it goes both ways. You were most certainly trying to paint him as being in the wrong for trying to defend himself.

 

[Crazyhole]

You said he was wrestling with a guy with a gun, so it goes both ways. You were most certainly trying to paint him as being in the wrong for trying to defend himself.

Go back and actually read what I typed.

 

[Cubs79]

Go back and actually read what I typed.

He was killed because he wrestled with a guy that had a gun. That can go both ways.

Explain to me what you meant by that then. It certainly sounds like you are saying because he started wrestling with the guy chasing him with a gun, that it could be argued he was at fault. If that isnt what you mean, then feel free to explain it.

 

[DaShuckster]

People walk in houses under construction all the time, that isnt that unusual especially in rural areas or suburban neighborhoods. Technically it is trespassing sure, but no one in their right mind thinks it is worthy of being killed over.

It was reported back when this incident first hit the national media that the home under construction had a working faucet that people used. The house had video cameras that showed dozens of people -- including Ahmaud Arbery -- using it to get a drink of water.

these guys knew Arbery’s history of posing as a jogger in order to commit theft, then maybe there’s a justification for them apprehending him.

It's bullsh!t like this gem from sk8 that helps explain how an innocent Black jogger can get murdered without the guy with the shotgun being immediately arrested for it.

 

[Cubs79]

It was reported back when this incident first hit the national media that the home under construction had a working faucet that people used. The house had video cameras that showed dozens of people -- including Ahmaud Arbery -- using it to get a drink of water.

It's bullsh!t like this gem from sk8 that helps explain how an innocent Black jogger can get murdered without the guy with the shotgun being immediately arrested for it.

Has this even been proven or is this just what the guys said? Honestly, it doesnt matter that much with regards to what actually happened, because nobody can possibly think that is worth getting killed over. But yeah, it is an obvious game they like to play when any of these incidents happen, that they have to paint the victim as the bad guy by bring up their history, as if somehow that changes what the people did to him. We have a legal system, if he commited a crime, then put him on trial.

 

[Crazyhole]

He was killed because he wrestled with a guy that had a gun. That can go both ways.

Explain to me what you meant by that then. It certainly sounds like you are saying because he started wrestling with the guy chasing him with a gun, that it could be argued he was at fault. If that isnt what you mean, then feel free to explain it.

It goes back to the rape that happened on a train and nobody stepped in. It's hard to criticize the people around for not doing anything because for all they knew, the guy might have a gun. Engaging him physically could mean that someone is going to get shot. In the Arbery case, we see exactly what can happen.

Things aren't so black and white in real world situations like this.

 

[Cubs79]

It goes back to the rape that happened on a train and nobody stepped in. It's hard to criticize the people around for not doing anything because for all they knew, the guy might have a gun. Engaging him physically could mean that someone is going to get shot. In the Arbery case, we see exactly what can happen.

Things aren't so black and white in real world situations like this.

You cant possibly think these are remotely the same thing, Trying to stop someone who is physically attacking someone in the moment, is not remotely the same thing as chasing someone down the street with a shotgun because you "think" he might have committed a crime.

So you think this situation is black and white? You think there is some sort of justification chasing down someone with a shot gun because you "think" they committed a crime?

 

[Crazyhole]

It was reported back when this incident first hit the national media that the home under construction had a working faucet that people used. The house had video cameras that showed dozens of people -- including Ahmaud Arbery -- using it to get a drink of water.

It's bullsh!t like this gem from sk8 that helps explain how an innocent Black jogger can get murdered without the guy with the shotgun being immediately arrested for it.

What's bullshit is that you edited sk8's post to make it seem like he said the opposite of what he did.

 

[Crazyhole]

You cant possibly think these are remotely the same thing, Trying to stop someone who is physically attacking someone in the moment, is not remotely the same thing as chasing someone down the street with a shotgun because you "think" he might have committed a crime.

So you think this situation is black and white? You think there is some sort of justification chasing down someone with a shot gun because you "think" they committed a crime?

Nope. I think they should have minded their own business.

 

[Cubs79]

Nope. I think they should have minded their own business.

Then why not just leave it at that and quit with the trying to paint it as if there are somehow shades of gray in this situation?

 

[Cubs79]

What's bullshit is that you edited sk8's post to make it seem like he said the opposite of what he did.

He did cut sk8's quote off but he is still bring up "pattern of behavior". But lets not act like this doesnt happen. Whenever these incidents happen, whether it be this case, George Floyd, Travon, etc, there are always people out there who want to make sure we all know they did some bad things in the past, therefore this is somehow justified. Never mind that Zimmerman for instance, was a known wife beater and violent person, lets make sure we bring up how Travon had weed in school one time, as if that makes any difference.

 

[Crazyhole]

He did cut sk8's quote off but he is still bring up "pattern of behavior". But lets not act like this doesnt happen. Whenever these incidents happen, whether it be this case, George Floyd, Travon, etc, there are always people out there who want to make sure we all know they did some bad things in the past, therefore this is somehow justified. Never mind that Zimmerman for instance, was a known wife beater and violent person, lets make sure we bring up how Travon had weed in school one time, as if that makes any difference.

Because it's a legitimate question. If I see a guy that I know has a history of stealing from my store running away, it probably makes sense to chase him down and see if he did it again. That's the gray area you don't want to consider.

 

[Cubs79]

Because it's a legitimate question. If I see a guy that I know has a history of stealing from my store running away, it probably makes sense to chase him down and see if he did it again. That's the gray area you don't want to consider.

No it doesnt, you should call the police, especially if you dont know if the actually stole something when you see him. If you chase someone down, especially without knowing for sure that he did steal something, then you are the one causing the situation, not that person. These guys were the violent ones here, no matter how much of a gray area you seem to think there is. They were the ones with a gun, they were the ones chasing someone down in a truck. Even if this kid had done something in the past, it doesnt take away from the fact that these guys were the violent ones in this situation. THere is no shades of gray in that.

ETA: This also wasnt these peoples store. They were not the contractors or owners of this house if I remember correctly.

 

[goodknightfl]

These guys will get what they deserve in the end.

 

[DaShuckster]

This also wasnt these peoples store. They were not the contractors or owners of this house if I remember correctly.

These yahoos just lived in the area and thought they saw Ahmaud leaving the home under construction. They had ZERO business doing anything other than call the cops if they thought something suspicious was going on. I'm sure that if there hadn't been a videotape (like the Floyd murder), the McMichaels would have gotten off the same way George Zimmerman did.

Ironically, we've got posters here who, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary, assume like the McMichaels that the victim must have done something wrong.

 

[Crazyhole]

These yahoos just lived in the area and thought they saw Ahmaud leaving the home under construction. They had ZERO business doing anything other than call the cops if they thought something suspicious was going on. I'm sure that if there hadn't been a videotape (like the Floyd murder), the McMichaels would have gotten off the same way George Zimmerman did.

Ironically, we've got posters here who, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary, assume like the McMichaels that the victim must have done something wrong.

No we don't. That's a strawman that you imagined up in your mind.

 

[Crazyhole]

No it doesnt, you should call the police, especially if you dont know if the actually stole something when you see him. If you chase someone down, especially without knowing for sure that he did steal something, then you are the one causing the situation, not that person. These guys were the violent ones here, no matter how much of a gray area you seem to think there is. They were the ones with a gun, they were the ones chasing someone down in a truck. Even if this kid had done something in the past, it doesnt take away from the fact that these guys were the violent ones in this situation. THere is no shades of gray in that.

ETA: This also wasnt these peoples store. They were not the contractors or owners of this house if I remember correctly.

OK. Then it stands to reason that you shouldn't get involved if you see someone getting beat up or raped. Its that simple.

 

[Cubs79]

OK. Then it stands to reason that you shouldn't get involved if you see someone getting beat up or raped. Its that simple.

The fact you are comparing someone being beaten or raped to someone who "might" have stolen something is nothing short of preposterous.

But seriously, you think a society where private citizens just start apprehending people because they "might" have done something wrong is a good idea? It isnt, it is a terrible idea that is going to lead more instances of people getting injured or killed because of jerkoffs who have watched batman too many times.