Active Shooter at Boulder, CO Grocery Store

[sk8knight]

Meh. There's really only 2 calibers widely used in the armalite platform, 5.56 and 7.62 so I wouldn't say "many different" unless you're willing to modify it. Yeah, you can make a 338 lapua mag into something that resembles armalite, but nobody does it and nobody refers to that as an AR.
I'm just saying that the ruger ar556 isn't exactly the same beast as a mini 14 so I don't like the term being used here. It's like saying that a rem .223 is an AR just because it fires the same caliber bullet as the AR-15.

The .223 and 5.56 are by far the most common uppers for stock AR-style carbines. After that, you’ll see .22 and 7.62s.

As for the rest, the differences between the Ruger SR-556 and the Mini 14 Ranch rifle in terms of ability to fire rounds at short range are minimal. Both are 5.56 chambered, both capable of carrying 30 round magazines, both fire one round per trigger pull. The mini 14 tactical even has rails to put the same kind of attachments that you can on the AR model. The main difference for most is that the mini 14 looks like an old wooden rifle while the AR looks like a military rifle.

You can buy uppers for AR-15s on almost any caliber and almost any idiot can make the modification. But none of that matters in reality when all of them are still limited to one round per trigger pull.

 

[DaShuckster]

Why is it that we went for 2 or 3 years without one of these and now we have 2 in a week?

One year's worth of a pandemic.

 

[Ucfmikes]

Let me guess: Another aggrieved, wacko white guy. 🙄

Racist

 

[Crazyhole]

When he said "white guy" how come you took offense to him assuming the shooter was "white" but not the "guy" part?

Because it's always a guy so that didn't bother you. Well, news flash, it's always a right wing white male too.

This didn't age well

 

[Knight In TN]

One year's worth of a pandemic.

You gonna say what your gun control solution is, or nah?

 

[Crazyhole]

You gonna say what your gun control solution is, or nah?

He'll just say that whatever Biden is proposing is exactly what we need to do.

 

[KnighttimeJoe]

You gonna say what your gun control solution is, or nah?

Gun control: aim small, miss small. Don’t jerk the trigger.

 

[Cubs79]

Why is it that we went for 2 or 3 years without one of these and now we have 2 in a week?

Last year was just likely due to covid, but beyond that they were pretty frequent.

 

[Crazyhole]

Last year was just likely due to covid, but beyond that they were pretty frequent.

It's probably just memory lapse on my part, but it doesn't seem like there were a lot of them. The Texas Walmart shooting, the dude in Virginia that shot up his place of employment are the only 2 I can think of since the Vegas shooting.

 

[Cubs79]

Guns = bad

They scare him so you can't protect yourself.

If guns were actual protection, then why do so many states with loose gun laws have so much violent crime? I mean Texas has some of the loosest gun laws in the country, and these types of events happen there as much as anywhere. There have been 3 mass shootings in Texas since 2017, so explain to me how there loose gun laws are protecting them? And even besides mass shootings Texas, Texas is one of the more violent states overall.

 

[Cubs79]

It's probably just memory lapse on my part, but it doesn't seem like there were a lot of them. The Texas Walmart shooting, the dude in Virginia that shot up his place of employment are the only 2 I can think of since the Vegas shooting.

It is your memory. You had those, and Parkland, shopping center in California in 2018 where 12 people were killed, the synagogue in Pittsburgh, HS shooting in Texas that killed 10, etc. Those are all since 2018.

 

[Cubs79]

If we take away cars that would stop car deaths too. Fortunately we have the 2nd amendment that allows for protection. So important that the founding fathers made it the #2 amendment

Yes, super important. How could we be so violent and have so many innocent people killed without so many guns?

And we have gone through this on this board so I am not trying to rehash it, but the 2nd amendment doesnt mean there cant be regulations.

Ah, yes, have to get Chicago in a conversation about guns. Chicago is a mess because our states arent Islands. You can easily bring guns over from Wisconsin or Indiana. Unless we want to have border checks at each state, then it isnt remotely difficult to transport guns over state lines in this country.

And the car comparison is stupid too. For one, you have to be licensed to have a car, have insurance, cant drink and drive, etc etc. There are many laws and regulationss around cars, and we have gone out of our way to make cars more safe over the years. With guns we went the exact opposite route, and made them more accessible.

 

[Knight In TN]

Yes, super important. How could we be so violent and have so many innocent people killed without so many guns?

And we have gone through this on this board so I am not trying to rehash it, but the 2nd amendment doesnt mean there cant be regulations.

Ah, yes, have to get Chicago in a conversation about guns. Chicago is a mess because our states arent Islands. You can easily bring guns over from Wisconsin or Indiana. Unless we want to have border checks at each state, then it isnt remotely difficult to transport guns over state lines in this country.

And the car comparison is stupid too. For one, you have to be licensed to have a car, have insurance, cant drink and drive, etc etc. There are many laws and regulationss around cars, and we have gone out of our way to make cars more safe over the years. With guns we went the exact opposite route, and made them more accessible.

Are you saying guns are less regulated than cars? Because that’s not even close to true. Name anywhere in the country where cars are banned. You can own and operate a car at 16. Not true of handguns. Do car dealers face prison time and fines that are certain to bankrupt them if they don’t run a background check on you before they sell you a car?

Even still... what plain English gun control law would you like passed?

 

[Cubs79]

Are you saying guns are less regulated than cars? Because that’s not even close to true. Name anywhere in the country where cars are banned. You can own and operate a car at 16. Not true of handguns. Do car dealers face prison time and fines that are certain to nkrupt them if they don’t run a background check on you before they sell you a car?

Even still... what plain English gun control law would you like passed?

YOu also have to pass a driving test before being able to drive. Age has nothing to do with it. You live in TN? As do I. Our state literally just passed a law so people can carry handguns without a permit. You cannot drive without a permit or license. So yes, based on that alone, I would say guns are less regulated in some states.

We had an assault rifle ban from 94-04. Gun control should look like that with some updates. It isnt a coincidence these events became much more common when that ban expired. Before that you rarely heard about these sorts of mass shootings. Columbine was in 99, so it certainly fit the bill, and probably others here and there, but it was by no means something that happened several times a year.

 

[sk8knight]

Guns are proof against all sorts of crimes, from property to violent physical crimes. The woman that stems off an attempted rape doesn’t show up in the gun crime statistics that you’re citing. In fact, it’s hard to count defensive uses but estimates are they far exceed criminal uses. You also have to look at similar cultures where they’ve banned guns and other crimes have risen markedly. Or, I could go all lefty emotional appeal and ask why you hate women and elderly so much that you would take away the only effective force equalizer that they have to protect themselves?

 

[Cubs79]

Guns are proof against all sorts of crimes, from property to violent physical crimes. The woman that stems off an attempted rape doesn’t show up in the gun crime statistics that you’re citing. In fact, it’s hard to count defensive uses but estimates are they far exceed criminal uses. You also have to look at similar cultures where they’ve banned guns and other crimes have risen markedly. Or, I could go all lefty emotional appeal and ask why you hate women and elderly so much that you would take away the only effective force equalizer that they have to protect themselves?

Attempted rapes are typically done in situations where a gun likely isnt going to be helpful, because they are typically done by people the victim knows, and likely doesnt think they need to protect themselves from them. I am not saying it doesnt happen at all, but I think you are way overstating how many rapes or other crimes are prevented by pulling out a gun.

I love this idea of not wanting innocent people to die is nothing more than emotional appeal. I mean yeah, I guess it can be considered emotional, but we also have evidence available that shows that more guns in society leads to more gun violence.

 

[Poolside Knight]

 

[DaShuckster]

Guns are proof against all sorts of crimes, from property to violent physical crimes. The woman that stems off an attempted rape doesn’t show up in the gun crime statistics that you’re citing.

But let's ignore the police officer who was killed while trying to stop that psycho killer.

With guns, you've made it clear you're 'the more the merrier' type of guy. But something tells me that if that was your spouse who was killed while trying to stop that nutjob, that might dampen your gun fetish enthusiasm.

 

[sk8knight]

Attempted rapes are typically done in situations where a gun likely isnt going to be helpful, because they are typically done by people the victim knows, and likely doesnt think they need to protect themselves from them. I am not saying it doesnt happen at all, but I think you are way overstating how many rapes or other crimes are prevented by pulling out a gun.

I love this idea of not wanting innocent people to die is nothing more than emotional appeal. I mean yeah, I guess it can be considered emotional, but we also have evidence available that shows that more guns in society leads to more gun violence.

Of course more guns leads to more use of guns. Especially when you lump accidents into the catch-all category. It’s almost an idiotic point to make and it’s a gross oversimplification. Even when someone knows their potential rapist, having a gun and gun skills is a deterrent. There are hundreds of thousands of stories every year of people stemming off rapes and home invasions and property theft and all kinds of other crimes with a gun without firing a shot. You wipe it away because you are simply ignorant of what you speak here and so you try to argue it at a kindergarten level.

 

[Cubs79]

Our whack Jacky FBI was "watching" this Syrian immigrant but allowed him to buy guns. Maybe too busy looking at garage door ropes? Or whatever the lefties push them to do.

Under what law would be have been prevented from buying guns? There are scant details about this, but so far it just looks like they knew him because he was linked to someone else under investigation, but that doesnt mean he was also under investigation.

 

[Cubs79]

Of course more guns leads to more use of guns. Especially when you lump accidents into the catch-all category. It’s almost an idiotic point to make and it’s a gross oversimplification. Even when someone knows their potential rapist, having a gun and gun skills is a deterrent. There are hundreds of thousands of stories every year of people stemming off rapes and home invasions and property theft and all kinds of other crimes with a gun without firing a shot. You wipe it away because you are simply ignorant of what you speak here and so you try to argue it at a kindergarten level.

I didnt wipe it away, I said that it happens, but I am saying you are over stating it, because you are. Guns are used far more often in committing crimes, than in preventing crimes, this is simply a fact. IN fact, having a gun in your home is far more dangerous than not having one in your home. These are facts that statistics bare out. If that makes my argument on the kindergarten level then so be it, nobody cares about your personal insults.

Does a Gun Make Your Home Safer? | SafeWise

Research shows that having a gun at home does not make us safer. SafeWise looks at the latest studies on gun safety.

www.safewise.com

Guns Don't Deter Crime, Study Finds

Firearm assaults, robberies and homicides are highest in states with more guns, finds a new study that contradicts the notion that private gun ownership deters crime.

www.livescience.com

But this is also getting off the topic a bit. Hardly anyone is saying you cant have any guns at all, so you are basically arguing something that no one else is saying. At least that is how my kindergarten level brain construes it, but I am sure a superior intellectual being such as yourself will tell me how stupid I am and win the argument.

 

[Cubs79]

That is not true. If only criminals had access to guns everyone would turn into sitting ducks. I'd rather have criminals think a home could be armed. The guns already exist and in most cases without an issue. Like banning cars because people hit the bars and kill innocent people.

But again, nobody is really trying to say you cant have a gun in your home, so this is a moot point.

 

[DaShuckster]

The national discussion SHOULD BE about preventing people with a history of violence and/or mental illness from possessing guns. But our resident gun fetishists always overreact with "NO, NO, NO YOU CAN"T TAKE AWAY OUR SECOND AMENDMENT RIGHTS!!!!"

It's ridiculous that even something that nearly 90% of Americans support, like clearing gun registration loopholes, can't pass through Congress.

 

[Cubs79]

The national discussion SHOULD BE about preventing people with a history of violence and/or mental illness from possessing guns. But our resident gun fetishists always overreact with "NO, NO, NO YOU CAN"T TAKE AWAY OUR SECOND AMENDMENT RIGHTS!!!!"

It's ridiculous that even something that nearly 90% of Americans support, like clearing gun registration loopholes, can't pass through Congress.

Basically a good portion of America has determined that these things are acceptable, that is really the only thing to say about it. Ted Cruz said these debates were just "theater", which clearly shows that he doesnt even care about the debate and trying to find a solution, and a good portion of this country agrees with him.

 

[Knight In TN]

YOu also have to pass a driving test before being able to drive. Age has nothing to do with it. You live in TN? As do I. Our state literally just passed a law so people can carry handguns without a permit. You cannot drive without a permit or license. So yes, based on that alone, I would say guns are less regulated in some states.

We had an assault rifle ban from 94-04. Gun control should look like that with some updates. It isnt a coincidence these events became much more common when that ban expired. Before that you rarely heard about these sorts of mass shootings. Columbine was in 99, so it certainly fit the bill, and probably others here and there, but it was by no means something that happened several times a year.

Used to live in TN... kept the username.

And it’s not true that you can’t drive without a license. You just can’t use public roads. You’re free to drive a car on your own property without a license, and you don’t have to register the vehicle either. There are farm vehicles all over the country that aren’t registered and are driven by people (kids) without licenses. The license is required for public roadways. They’re a standard required by the state to drive on roads built and maintained by the state.

What is it about the ‘94 legislation that you find appealing? The evidence for its effectiveness seems pretty weak. Columbine happened during that time period, and they only used guns that were legal at the time.

That’s where the lack of trust comes in. These measures won’t be effective in stopping lunatics from causing havoc, and further calls to disarm Americans completely will intensify.

 

[_glaciers]

View embedded media

"We should be more like [insert country made up entirely of white people]!"

- tolerant leftists

 

[Cubs79]

Used to live in TN... kept the username.

And it’s not true that you can’t drive without a license. You just can’t use public roads. You’re free to drive a car on your own property without a license, and you don’t have to register the vehicle either. There are farm vehicles all over the country that aren’t registered and are driven by people (kids) without licenses. The license is required for public roadways. They’re a standard required by the state to drive on roads built and maintained by the state.

What is it about the ‘94 legislation that you find appealing? The evidence for its effectiveness seems pretty weak. Columbine happened during that time period, and they only used guns that were legal at the time.

That’s where the lack of trust comes in. These measures won’t be effective in stopping lunatics from causing havoc, and further calls to disarm Americans completely will intensify.

Yes there guns were legal, and the list of guns would probably have to be updated in some form. But mass shootings were not really a thing back then, so I dont know how you can say it wasnt effective. Mass shootings didnt become a common thing until the ban expired. I think that bill is a starting point, but it would need modifications likely. The ban did lower crimes with regards to guns that were banned, but obviously gun crime in the 90s was pretty high so it didnt lower gun crime overall. But again, the sorts of mass shootings we see on a regular basis now were pretty rare. Even if you want to argue the reasons, it isnt debatable that since the ban expired, mass shootings have become much more common, and I dont think it is a coincidence.

 

[Knight In TN]

The national discussion SHOULD BE about preventing people with a history of violence and/or mental illness from possessing guns. But our resident gun fetishists always overreact with "NO, NO, NO YOU CAN"T TAKE AWAY OUR SECOND AMENDMENT RIGHTS!!!!"

It's ridiculous that even something that nearly 90% of Americans support, like clearing gun registration loopholes, can't pass through Congress.

What mental illnesses should be disqualifying?

Who gets to decide whether or not you’re competent to own a gun?

You say you want the discussion; let’s have it.

 

[Knight In TN]

Yes there guns were legal, and the list of guns would probably have to be updated in some form. But mass shootings were not really a thing back then, so I dont know how you can say it wasnt effective. Mass shootings didnt become a common thing until the ban expired. I think that bill is a starting point, but it would need modifications likely. The ban did lower crimes with regards to guns that were banned, but obviously gun crime in the 90s was pretty high so it didnt lower gun crime overall. But again, the sorts of mass shootings we see on a regular basis now were pretty rare. Even if you want to argue the reasons, it isnt debatable that since the ban expired, mass shootings have become much more common, and I dont think it is a coincidence.

Pardon me, but what the fûck are you talking about “mass shootings weren’t a thing back then?”

- Thurston High School shooting was 11 months before Columbine.
- Westside Middle School shooting was 2 months before that, and carried out by a 13 year old and an 11 year old.
- Heath High School in Kentucky was 4 months before Westside.
- Pearl High School was 2 months before that.

And those are just from schools. To pretend that mass shootings and school shootings weren’t happening then is willful ignorance.

The thing that HAS changed significantly is the amount of media attention, which plays well into exactly what the Columbine kids wanted. They were driven to become infamous killers (mostly Eric Harris) and had they not poorly wired their propane bombs would have killed a staggering amount of people.

But Columbine and the news and attention around it created a scoreboard for the seriously twisted. The spectacle is the goal just as much as the carnage.

 

[Crazyhole]

YOu also have to pass a driving test before being able to drive. Age has nothing to do with it. You live in TN? As do I. Our state literally just passed a law so people can carry handguns without a permit. You cannot drive without a permit or license. So yes, based on that alone, I would say guns are less regulated in some states.

We had an assault rifle ban from 94-04. Gun control should look like that with some updates. It isnt a coincidence these events became much more common when that ban expired. Before that you rarely heard about these sorts of mass shootings. Columbine was in 99, so it certainly fit the bill, and probably others here and there, but it was by no means something that happened several times a year.

First define what constitutes an "assault rifle" and explain why they are more dangerous than other guns.

 

[Crazyhole]

What mental illnesses should be disqualifying?

Who gets to decide whether or not you’re competent to own a gun?

You say you want the discussion; let’s have it.

Should someone that once dealt with situational depression be lumped in with someone that is a paranoid schizophrenic? It's a discussion that really can't be had because it's impossible to not move the goalposts after people have come to an agreement on it.

 

[Cubs79]

Pardon me, but what the fûck are you talking about “mass shootings weren’t a thing back then?”

- Thurston High School shooting was 11 months before Columbine.
- Westside Middle School shooting was 2 months before that, and carried out by a 13 year old and an 11 year old.
- Heath High School in Kentucky was 4 months before Westside.
- Pearl High School was 2 months before that.

And those are just from schools. To pretend that mass shootings and school shootings weren’t happening then is willful ignorance.

The thing that HAS changed significantly is the amount of media attention, which plays well into exactly what the Columbine kids wanted. They were driven to become infamous killers (mostly Eric Harris) and had they not poorly wired their propane bombs would have killed a staggering amount of people.

But Columbine and the news and attention around it created a scoreboard for the seriously twisted. The spectacle is the goal just as much as the carnage.

They werent as common as they are today. In 2019 alone we averaged over 1 mass shooting a day. Yes, they have obviously happened before, but not nearly to the degree they happen now.

 

[Cubs79]

First define what constitutes an "assault rifle" and explain why they are more dangerous than other guns.

The AR ban lays out what was considered an assault rifle, you can look up that bill, I am not typing out all those details. Though as I said, it would likely need modifications in some way. I dont care about having a semantics argument over what is an assault rifle and what isnt. I know people will say an AR-15 isnt technically an assault rifle, but considering they are used most all of the current massing shootings, I would tell those people they are full of shit.

 

[_glaciers]

They werent as common as they are today. In 2019 alone we averaged over 1 mass shooting a day. Yes, they have obviously happened before, but not nearly to the degree they happen now.

coincidentally, immigration has skyrocketed during that time period.

 

[Knight In TN]

The AR ban lays out what was considered an assault rifle, you can look up that bill, I am not typing out all those details. Though as I said, it would likely need modifications in some way. I dont care about having a semantics argument over what is an assault rifle and what isnt. I know people will say an AR-15 isnt technically an assault rifle, but considering they are used most all of the current massing shootings, I would tell those people they are full of shit.

If you’re talking about banning “assault rifles” a discussion about what is and isn’t an assault rifle IS NOT MERELY SEMANTICS.

 

[Crazyhole]

They werent as common as they are today. In 2019 alone we averaged over 1 mass shooting a day. Yes, they have obviously happened before, but not nearly to the degree they happen now.

You must be using a different definition of the term "mass shooting" than the one we were discussing earlier

Mass shootings by shooter’s race in the U.S. 2024 | Statista

Between 1982 and September 2024, 82 out of the 151 mass shootings in the United States were carried out by White shooters.

www.statista.com

I wonder if we were to use your definition, what the racial demographics would look like.

 

[Cubs79]

You must be using a different definition of the term "mass shooting" than the one we were discussing earlier

Mass shootings by shooter’s race in the U.S. 2024 | Statista

Between 1982 and September 2024, 82 out of the 151 mass shootings in the United States were carried out by White shooters.

www.statista.com

I wonder if we were to use your definition, what the racial demographics would look like.

There were more mass shootings than days in 2019

365 days. 417 mass shootings.

www.cbsnews.com

GVA defines a mass shooting as any incident in which at least four people are shot, excluding the shooter. The group also tracks mass murders as defined by the FBI — incidents in which at least four people are killed. The FBI does not have a formal definition of a mass shooting.

 

[Cubs79]

If you’re talking about banning “assault rifles” a discussion about what is and isn’t an assault rifle IS NOT MERELY SEMANTICS.

It is semantics on this board because none of us would actually be writing the bill so we dont have to cover and debate every tiny little detail, which is all that ends up happening on this subject when people start trying to get into the weeds. I also told him where he could what was considered an AR in the 94 bill.

 

[Cubs79]

coincidentally, immigration has skyrocketed during that time period.

SO what? You think I am arguing that immigrants should have access to guns that non immigrants dont?

 

[_glaciers]

SO what? You think I am arguing that immigrants should have access to guns that non immigrants dont?

you should be looking at all trends and opposing them all if you wanna be intellectually consistent.