Charleston church shooting: 9 'killed because they were black,' official says

[ReginaeUCF]

Mexico, England, France, Spain, Germany, Japan, Canada are countries and their flags are representative of such and symbol of those whose heritage comes form there.
Confederacy is not a country and does not represent anyones true national heritage.

 

[ReginaeUCF]

So apparently only the south is racist? Thank science, otherwise we would see riots over racism in cities like Baltimore and whatnot.

I don't understand these over simplified arguments at all. Perception is reality and the perception by many (white, black, or otherwise) is that the flag is a symbol of hatred. I don't think it's that hard to understand, especially for an educated group of people as such.

 

[jetsaholic]

I don't understand these over simplified arguments at all. Perception is reality and the perception by many (white, black, or otherwise) is that the flag is a symbol of hatred. I don't think it's that hard to understand, especially for an educated group of people as such.

My point exactly. This thread has turned into a pissing contest of who can out-stupid the other person the most.

Racism is real. Hatred is real. Stupidity is real. Get off all your fukcing high horses and make a difference beginning with yourselves. If you already are, then good. If you aren't, then you're stupid and dumb.

 

[fabknight]

My point exactly. This thread has turned into a pissing contest of who can out-stupid the other person the most.

Racism is real. Hatred is real. Stupidity is real. Get off all your fukcing high horses and make a difference beginning with yourselves. If you already are, then good. If you aren't, then you're stupid and dumb.

 

[1ofTheseKnights]

Lol @ the Confederate flag not being a part of history...

edited faux rage...
The flag is not a part of American history. editted hyperbole.

 

[1ofTheseKnights]

My point exactly. This thread has turned into a pissing contest of who can out-stupid the other person the most.

Racism is real. Hatred is real. Stupidity is real. Get off all your fukcing high horses and make a difference beginning with yourselves. If you already are, then good. If you aren't, then you're stupid and dumb.

Nah gotta grandstand jank! Got to blame something other than the shooter! Take down the flag, ban guns, ban this ban that bla bla bla

 

[UCFKnight85]

You do realize that your opinion on the flag means shit, right?

The only opinion that really matters is what this flag means to the millions of black people that live in the south and not only face racism still today, but came from families that can trace back to actual slavery.

Black people view the confederate flag as an affront to their very existence as southern residents. Period. And they feel this way since generations of racists and hate mongers have flown this flag while perpetuating racism and hate.

So please spare me the bullshit about history, heritage, why the flag did or didn't influence this shooter, etc. It doesn't f*cking matter. All that matters is that this flag continues to fly on STATE CAPITOL GROUNDS at the same time representing all that is the worst about this country to black residents.

 

[1ofTheseKnights]

You do realize I can't remember your rambling bullcrap about this before hand. Continue your reactionary crap, puppet.

 

[UCFKnight85]

Actually dipshit I've found anyone who flies this flag to be both an ignorant buffoon and/or racist for a long time now.

I guess I'm just shocked that actual government grounds still fly this atrocity of a flag. It was literally too ignorant and stupid to believe before this shooting happened.

But please continue defending a flag that literally repulses black people. I'm sure they appreciate your lax opinion on the matter as they continue living with a literal flag of racism over their heads. Their problems don't involve you, amirite?

 

[KnighttimeJoe]

Why should an African-American be offended by the battle flag of soldiers who were fighting on the side that wanted to keep African-Americans enslaved forever? The side whose Vice President said, “its foundations are laid, its corner- stone rests upon the great truth, that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery — subordination to the superior race — is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth.”

Why should any of our black friends have any pain on seeing the confederate battle flag? Oh, maybe it’s because the confederate constitution enshrined slavery and made it impossible for the confederacy to ever abolish it. It also makes it impossible for any state in the confederacy to keep slavery out. If a slaveholder wanted to bring a slave to another state, that state cannot claim bringing the slave within its borders automatically frees that slave. Their constitution specifically states that territories are automatically slave territory.

No one is saying anything about wiping confederates out of the history books. No one is talking about forgetting the confederacy ever happened. It seems to me folks are saying we should remember the truth of what the confederacy was all about.

 

[Bob the Citronaut]

Slavery under American flag - 89 years
Slavery under Confederate flag - 4 years (and the one everyone hates so much was around less than two years)

Most of the people fighting for the South were no different than the guys fighting for the North. They were all drafted to fight for one side or the other because of where their house was.

 

[UCFKnight85]

Joe you're such a puppet. Like black people care about all that slavery stuff?*

 

[UCFKnight85]

Slavery under American flag - 89 years
Slavery under Confederate flag - 4 years (and the one everyone hates so much was around less than two years)

Most of the people fighting for the South were no different than the guys fighting for the North. They were all drafted to fight for one side or the other because of where their house was.

LMAO

It's incredible how you apparently can't recognize that slavery in the "Confederacy" only lasted 4 years BECUAUSE the guys with the American flag won the war and brought with them the Emancipation Proclamation which freed said slaves?

If the Confederacy had won, how much longer would slavery had continued? It might still exist today.

Your arguments here are just laughable.

 

[1ofTheseKnights]

Every single person in the south owned slaves Bob!

Also I don't see the thread from May 22 where you all had a boner for Confederate flag. Weird.

 

[Bob the Citronaut]

Why should an African-American be offended by the battle flag of soldiers who were fighting on the side that wanted to keep African-Americans enslaved forever? The side whose Vice President said, “its foundations are laid, its corner- stone rests upon the great truth, that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery — subordination to the superior race — is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth.”

Why should any of our black friends have any pain on seeing the confederate battle flag? Oh, maybe it’s because the confederate constitution enshrined slavery and made it impossible for the confederacy to ever abolish it. It also makes it impossible for any state in the confederacy to keep slavery out. If a slaveholder wanted to bring a slave to another state, that state cannot claim bringing the slave within its borders automatically frees that slave. Their constitution specifically states that territories are automatically slave territory.

No one is saying anything about wiping confederates out of the history books. No one is talking about forgetting the confederacy ever happened. It seems to me folks are saying we should remember the truth of what the confederacy was all about.

I guess it's better to be a hypocrite then...

"All men are created equal." - Slave owner Thomas Jefferson

 

[Bob the Citronaut]

LMAO

It's incredible how you apparently can't recognize that slavery in the "Confederacy" only lasted 4 years BECUAUSE the guys with the American flag won the war and brought with them the Emancipation Proclamation which freed said slaves?

If the Confederacy had won, how much longer would slavery had continued? It might still exist today.

Your arguments here are just laughable.

If the North could have won the war without getting rid of slavery how much longer would it have continued? If the US was soooo against slavery why did we only abolish it as a last resort option to win the war?

 

[KnighttimeJoe]

I guess it's better to be a hypocrite then...

"All men are created equal." - Slave owner Thomas Jefferson

Yes, we get it boob. Blacks didn't get a fair shake from the start. The Civil War was in large part because our forefathers failed to address the question of slavery and kicked the can down the road.

 

[KnighttimeJoe]

If the North could have won the war without getting rid of slavery how much longer would it have continued? If the US was soooo against slavery why did we only abolish it as a last resort option to win the war?

The amendment to abolish slavery officially was done when the war was well in the North's hands. To say it was a last resort is disingenuous.

 

[fabknight]

Why should an African-American be offended by the battle flag of soldiers who were fighting on the side that wanted to keep African-Americans enslaved forever? The side whose Vice President said, “its foundations are laid, its corner- stone rests upon the great truth, that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery — subordination to the superior race — is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth.”

That was back before we discovered Mexicans and passed NAFTA.*

 

[UCFWayne]

So what are the good reason for keeping that flag flying again?

I know that flag didnt shoot up a bunch of people, but it is definitely a symbol of hate, oppression, and rebellion in this country. Why it would still be flown on state grounds is crazy. I honestly had no idea it was still being flown at any government building. It needs to be removed, there is no reason for it. Stick it in a museum where it belongs.

 

[jetsaholic]

So what are the good reason for keeping that flag flying again?

I know that flag didnt shoot up a bunch of people, but it is definitely a symbol of hate, oppression, and rebellion in this country. Why it would still be flown on state grounds is crazy. I honestly had no idea it was still being flown at any government building. It needs to be removed, there is no reason for it. Stick it in a museum where it belongs.

You need to stop it with this common sense bullshit and get with the hate-monging-finger-pointing agenda ASAP, you damn hippie.

 

[Bob the Citronaut]

The simple answer is because they can. They know it pisses people off.

 

[Game_Day_Sports]

Having just spent a week in the Keys, I can tell you of another secession and declaration of war where the losing side is still flying their country's flag at government buildings.

you can choose to not fly the flag because it represents hate, but not because of rebellion otherwise the Conchs will rise again.

 

[sk8knight]

So what are the good reason for keeping that flag flying again?

I know that flag didnt shoot up a bunch of people, but it is definitely a symbol of hate, oppression, and rebellion in this country. Why it would still be flown on state grounds is crazy. I honestly had no idea it was still being flown at any government building. It needs to be removed, there is no reason for it. Stick it in a museum where it belongs.

Just to set the stage correctly, the flag is flying at a memorial to the confederate soldier on the grounds of the state house and not over the building. The flagpole isn't even as high as the memorium that it's next to. There's also an African American memorial on the grounds as well. I personally don't see the point of having the flag there and would rather it be removed, but I have no connection to the war And no family investment so it may be hard to understand.

Is it accurate to reduce the war to the one issue of slavery anyway?

 

[UCFKnight85]

Is it accurate to reduce the war to the one issue of slavery anyway?

The war, and more specifically the North winning, essentially set in motion the beginning of the end of the absolute worst period in American history where human beings were treated as property and stripped of all dignity and human rights.

To answer your question: yes. There were many lingering implications for America after the war, but the absolute biggest and most important was the end of slavery as a result of the North winning and reuniting the United States of America.

Trying to boil the Civil War down to most anything else is just side stepping this fac.t

 

[UCFWayne]

http://news.yahoo.com/charleston-confederate-statue-graffiti-black-lives-matter-184427816.html
Wonder if SC/Charleston will have riots soon enough.

 

[ReginaeUCF]

The war, and more specifically the North winning, essentially set in motion the beginning of the end of the absolute worst period in American history where human beings were treated as property and stripped of all dignity and human rights.

To answer your question: yes. There were many lingering implications for America after the war, but the absolute biggest and most important was the end of slavery as a result of the North winning and reuniting the United States of America.

Trying to boil the Civil War down to most anything else is just side stepping this fac.t

Just stop, 85. People don't want to be told any facts which make their personal beliefs look bad. It's the way we as humans are wired. It is simply easier for some people to ignore the facts that lie behind the creation of the flag; rather than to accept the fact that the flag they love so much has under-lying meanings, perceived or otherwise, that are hard to swallow.

 

[Bob the Citronaut]

LOL. You guys are completely ignoring the facts that you don't agree with. Confederate flag bad because they supported slavery for four years. American flag good since they abolished slavery after supporting it for a century.

 

[UCFWayne]

Looks like the flag might be coming down. Congrats guys, we did it. Racism is now gone from SC*

 

[sk8knight]

The war, and more specifically the North winning, essentially set in motion the beginning of the end of the absolute worst period in American history where human beings were treated as property and stripped of all dignity and human rights.

To answer your question: yes. There were many lingering implications for America after the war, but the absolute biggest and most important was the end of slavery as a result of the North winning and reuniting the United States of America.

Trying to boil the Civil War down to most anything else is just side stepping this fac.t

Understand what you're saying. The outcome obviously produced a better US and the US as it should have been all along. What I'm talking about, though, is that it wasn't as cut and dried as one day it was legal, the next it wasn't, and the South seceded because they were evil. There was a lot of manipulation of very heavy and one-sided tariffs, laws, and regulations by the federal government to try to force the southern states into compliance. All for a good cause, but given what even candidate Lincoln though while he campaigned about not wanting to fundamentally change the south, I'm not sure that the states would've went to war over slavery without the rest of the actions of the federal government. He went to war because a divided US couldn't survive and so had to answer the secession. The abolition of slavery in the south was a consequence of the war, not the primary goal of the union when they went to war.

 

[Good Knight Sweetheart]

Gov. Nikki Haley just declared it is time to remove the flag from the State House grounds.

.

 

[ReginaeUCF]

Looks like the flag might be coming down. Congrats guys, we did it. Racism is now gone from SC.

Oh to be so simple minded. Life would be so nice.*

 

[jetsaholic]

Looks like the flag might be coming down. Congrats guys, we did it. Racism is now gone from SC.

Yay.

 

[ucfversusbcs]

Racism is not gone but at least the governor of SC is saying the symbol of racism should not sanctioned by the government. Whatever you think of our country the difference between the US flag vs the Confederate flag is its intent. Sure we have spent hundreds of years spent appeasing those who have allegiances to Confederate value and as a result hate the US flag, but its far better than a flag who's sole intent is to forever equate the black race to second class citizens.

 

[Sir Galahad]

Racism is not gone but at least the governor of SC is saying the symbol of racism should not sanctioned by the government. Whatever you think of our country the difference between the US flag vs the Confederate flag is its intent. Sure we have spent hundreds of years spent appeasing those who have allegiances to Confederate value and as a result hate the US flag, but its far better than a flag who's sole intent is to forever equate the black race to second class citizens.

Good, now go after the other 15 or so states with the flag on state grounds.

 

[fabknight]

Give it time. It will eventually become illegal for citizens to fly the Confederate flag. Some of my neighbors are going to be really disappointed and angry. What I really hope they outlaw is those dumb Civil War reenactment club things...talk about people with no lives.

 

[UCFKnight85]

Give it time. It will eventually become illegal for citizens to fly the Confederate flag. Some of my neighbors are going to be really disappointed and angry. What I really hope they outlaw is those dumb Civil War reenactment club things...talk about people with no lives.

It will never be illegal for a person to fly the flag on private property. Hence why the Tampa mayor was bitching about the massive Confederate flag along 14 this morning, but admitting there's nothing he can do to remove it. It's private property and they can fly whatever they want if it's within city code limits.

If someone wants to declare privately that they're an ignorant racist and fly it, then fine. They have absolute right to do that. And people have a right to declare them a jackass and a racist.

State governments should not be able to fly this heinous flag.

 

[jetsaholic]

flags are stupid*

 

[btbones]

I don't have a confederate flag and don't give a damn about defending its use . But to say anyone who has one is a racist is 100% ignorance

 

[UCFKnight85]

I don't have a confederate flag and don't give a damn about defending its use . But to say anyone who guys one is a racist is 100% ignorance

Maybe they're not racist. But that's what it projects to most anyone who views it, including roughly 100% of black people. That's my point- why even fly a flag that literally repulses an entire race of people that are your neighbors and fellow residents, if it's not meant to do exactly that?

I don't buy that southern white people fly this flag because they really give a shit about the Civil War. I've met several jackasses who wear Confederate stuff and it's typically to let everyone know that they're a racist good ol boy.

I don't care what it was- if I was wearing, flying, or doing something that was basically a giant middle finger to my black friends and colleagues, I'd stop immediately. To know this, and not stop, is either signaling that you're a flat out racist, or that you genuinely do not give a shit about how painful it is to the black people that just might be your friends or colleauges. Neither option is good or acceptable, IMO.