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Rioters Tear Down Historical Statue in NC while Police do nothing to stop it

I imagine they will take the trip thru the park on US27 in GA. it is full of both confederate and Union Statues, and destroy all the confederate ones. The whole purpose is to tell the story of the battle that happened there.

I am going to go visit Stone Mt. before they blow the face off the hill. I am from Mass. My ancestors fought for the north. I hate racism, White on black, black on white, yellow on red,
but you can't change this is part of our history,
 
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Remember, many who participated in tearing down this statue gleefully gave interviews with their full names to media right afterwards (especially the woman who climbed the statue and put the strap on top of the statue that was used to test it down).

It was obvious that since the Sheriff Dept didn't stop their vandalism while it was progressing, they viewed themselves as being safe and support by law enforcement.

Let's see what happens in the end if any real punishment will ever be handed out (might end up as simple as a small tresspassing fine without any jail sentence).
 
Alot of our founding fathers and other great citizens have things that are considered bad. Many owned slaves. I believe MLK was against gay marriage. Should we start tearing down all their statues?
 
UCFWayne said:
Alot of our founding fathers and other great citizens have things that are considered bad. Many owned slaves. I believe MLK was against gay marriage. Should we start tearing down all their statues?
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You can't judge the past through the lens of today. Otherwise, every Roman statue would be torn down because they literally killed political opposition. It was accepted at that time. The statues don't stand for their downfalls, it's for their feats. The same applies everywhere. Cultural acceptance evolves and we should look at the past for what we can learn, not to criticize.
 
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Great2BAKnight2 said:
You can't judge the past through the lens of today. Otherwise, every Roman statue would be torn down because they literally killed political opposition. It was accepted at that time. The statues don't stand for their downfalls, it's for their feats. The same applies everywhere. Cultural acceptance evolves and we should look at the past for what we can learn, not to criticize.
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love this statement. wish more people took it to heart.
 
UCFWayne said:
love this statement. wish more people took it to heart.
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I don't.

Can you seriously tell me that owning another human being was ever morally OK? What about if a culture had killing babies as a tradition? Should we not judge them? I guarantee you people back then knew it was wrong to own people, but most just gave in to societal pressure and went along with it. I'm not saying I know for certain I have the moral fortitude to go against society if I was in the position, but I sure hope I would have been able to stand with the others that felt the same way. That is the only way progress is made.
 
Kirkuk, Syria 2015
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Durham, North Carolina 2017
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Occupied Paris, 1941
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Mosul, Iraq, 2014
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Ninawa, Iraq 2015
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New Orleans, 2017
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NinjaKnight said:
I don't.

Can you seriously tell me that owning another human being was ever morally OK? What about if a culture had killing babies as a tradition? Should we not judge them? I guarantee you people back then knew it was wrong to own people, but most just gave in to societal pressure and went along with it. I'm not saying I know for certain I have the moral fortitude to go against society if I was in the position, but I sure hope I would have been able to stand with the others that felt the same way. That is the only way progress is made.
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The morality changes over time. I believe it was the rise of Christianity that initially led to the anti-slavery sentiment in Rome and Europe in general. However, it was such an entrenched establishment at that point that instead of outright opposing it, they advocated for better treatment of slaves so that it better aligned to their Christian values. Prior to Christianity, there was very little value put on human life in general. Just look at Sparta: adolescents die in training and the greatest honor was dying on the battlefield killing others. That's literally insane to modern thinking.

To your point though, there's a certain point in history where people knew it was wrong but still didn't get rid of it because of the economic blow back that would occur. I don't know where that line is but it's probably sometime in the 18th-19th century.
 
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Great2BAKnight2 said:
The morality changes over time. I believe it was the rise of Christianity that initially led to the anti-slavery sentiment in Rome and Europe in general. However, it was such an entrenched establishment at that point that instead of outright opposing it, they advocated for better treatment of slaves so that it better aligned to their Christian values. Prior to Christianity, there was very little value put on human life in general. Just look at Sparta: adolescents die in training and the greatest honor was dying on the battlefield killing others. That's literally insane to modern thinking.

To your point though, there's a certain point in history where people knew it was wrong but still didn't get rid of it because of the economic blow back that would occur. I don't know where that line is but it's probably sometime in the 18th-19th century.
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I disagree with your opening statement.
 
NinjaKnight said:
I don't.

Can you seriously tell me that owning another human being was ever morally OK? What about if a culture had killing babies as a tradition? Should we not judge them? I guarantee you people back then knew it was wrong to own people, but most just gave in to societal pressure and went along with it. I'm not saying I know for certain I have the moral fortitude to go against society if I was in the position, but I sure hope I would have been able to stand with the others that felt the same way. That is the only way progress is made.
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This country slaughters babies every single day. Not only is it accepted, it's cheered in most left wing circles. It's proponents are granted headline speaking roles at DNC conventions.
 
There are still tons of massive, grand statues of Napoleon in France. A guy who was responsible for the mass slaughter of people throughout most of the western world at that time, and a guy who reintroduced slavery into all of the French colonies during his rule.

Somehow the French have learned to live with the fact that the statues erected which feature him are apart of a history of France that needs explanation and rebuke, but shouldn't be torn out to shield people from the truth.
 
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NinjaKnight said:
I disagree with your opening statement.
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Then let's hit that nail. If morality is fixed with no evolution of what's considered right and wrong, then we should never have seen slavery, theft, and murder in the first place. How do you account for it ever occurring if we've always known it was wrong?
 
Great2BAKnight2 said:
Then let's hit that nail. If morality is fixed with no evolution of what's considered right and wrong, then we should never have seen slavery, theft, and murder in the first place. How do you account for it ever occurring if we've always known it was wrong?
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Because people are fuking assholes. This isn't rocket science.
 
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NinjaKnight said:
I don't.

Can you seriously tell me that owning another human being was ever morally OK? What about if a culture had killing babies as a tradition? Should we not judge them? I guarantee you people back then knew it was wrong to own people, but most just gave in to societal pressure and went along with it. I'm not saying I know for certain I have the moral fortitude to go against society if I was in the position, but I sure hope I would have been able to stand with the others that felt the same way. That is the only way progress is made.
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unfortunately, it has been morally ok to own slaves for virtually all of human existence. literally from the beginning of time up until the 1860s, it was ok to own slaves. this period of time is the exception to the rule.

we should probably tear down those triangle things in egypt.....
 
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UCFWayne said:
unfortunately, it has been morally ok to own slaves for virtually all of human existence. literally from the beginning of time up until the 1860s, it was ok to own slaves. this period of time is the exception to the rule.

we should probably tear down those triangle things in egypt.....
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Don't forget all those meanie statues in Rome, or Greece, or Mecca, or Beijing, or etc, etc, etc.
 
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UCFWayne said:
unfortunately, it has been morally ok to own slaves for virtually all of human existence. literally from the beginning of time up until the 1860s, it was ok to own slaves. this period of time is the exception to the rule.
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I don't think it's ever been morally OK to own slaves. Legally OK: of course. But morals are not dictated by legality, that is how you end up with Nazi's gassing jews (legally OK).

UCFWayne said:
we should probably tear down those triangle things in egypt.....
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I've already stated I don't agree with tearing down civil war monuments, but you are faux raging a little hard on that with your comparisons to ancient artifacts. The majority of these monuments are only a hundred years old, and many were built in the 60's, as you can see below. Hardly the same as comparing them to the pyramids in terms of historical significance.

https://www.splcenter.org/sites/default/files/whoseheritage-timeline150_years_of_iconography.jpg

But as always don't let my facts get in the way of a good faux rage
 
NinjaKnight said:
I don't think it's ever been morally OK to own slaves. Legally OK: of course. But morals are not dictated by legality, that is how you end up with Nazi's gassing jews (legally OK).



I've already stated I don't agree with tearing down civil war monuments, but you are faux raging a little hard on that with your comparisons to ancient artifacts. The majority of these monuments are only a hundred years old, and many were built in the 60's, as you can see below. Hardly the same as comparing them to the pyramids in terms of historical significance.

https://www.splcenter.org/sites/default/files/whoseheritage-timeline150_years_of_iconography.jpg

But as always don't let my facts get in the way of a good faux rage
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Slaves have existed throughout most of mankind's history. In most of that history, the practice is slavery was widespread and commonplace. We can look back now and determine that is was morally detestable but at those points of time, the general moral consensus was that slavery was OK. We know this since opposition to the practice didn't really become a rallying theme until the late 1600s.
 
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UCFKnight85 said:
Slaves have existed throughout most of mankind's history. In most of that history, the practice is slavery was widespread and commonplace. We can look back now and determine that is was morally detestable but at those points of time, the general moral consensus was that slavery was OK. We know this since opposition to the practice didn't really become a rallying theme until the late 1600s.
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I'm not arguing that it wasn't widespread or commonplace, or even that it wasn't acceptable. Basically my argument boils down to morality not being relative. I think everyone has always known that owning people was wrong, just like they have always known murder is wrong. They simply overlooked that because it was convenient.
 
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UCFKnight85 said:
Slaves have existed throughout most of mankind's history. In most of that history, the practice is slavery was widespread and commonplace. We can look back now and determine that is was morally detestable but at those points of time, the general moral consensus was that slavery was OK. We know this since opposition to the practice didn't really become a rallying theme until the late 1600s.
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Did the slaves agree with this moral consensus?
 
MACHater02 said:
Did the slaves agree with this moral consensus?
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Agree? Maybe in some eras. Many populations had a practice of taking defeated soldiers as slaves. It was the agreed upon spoils of war. I'm sure they didn't like it but knew what losing meant.
 
NinjaKnight said:
I'm not arguing that it wasn't widespread or commonplace, or even that it wasn't acceptable. Basically my argument boils down to morality not being relative. I think everyone has always known that owning people was wrong, just like they have always known murder is wrong. They simply overlooked that because it was convenient.
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I see your point. In some sense you could look at Maslow's hierarchy of needs and see how morality adapts (or is ignored) based on that. If you're trying to survive (lowest level), you'll do anything. If your safety is threatened, you'll kill someone to protect your loved one's (i.e. war). It's an interesting topic but it's a philosophical argument that I'm not well versed in.
 
MACHater02 said:
Did the slaves agree with this moral consensus?
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In many societies, yes. They were told they were inferior (many by their religion, some by imprisonment) and that this was their place. Many accepted it, as it was the only way to live a civilized life. Many who owned slaves justified it as people who needed to be cared for and who justified their station in society.

That said, just because slavery was widely practiced throughout human history does not make it acceptable practice in today's society.
 
CommuterBob said:
That said, just because slavery was widely practiced throughout human history does not make it acceptable practice in today's society.
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No one here has said that. The simple fact that you had to say this and that all conservatives are having to preface statements by denouncing white supremacists just shows the insanity in what is going on. Of course slavery is and was awful. Of course white supremacists are bad.
 
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Bob the Knight said:
No one here has said that. The simple fact that you had to say this and that all conservatives are having to preface statements by denouncing white supremacists just shows the insanity in what is going on. Of course slavery is and was awful. Of course white supremacists are bad.
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Nah man.

Tax cuts are code for "I love the Klan". BIGOT
 
Al Sharpton has already started the narrative of how evil the Jefferson Memorial is. It's only a matter of time before the leftists start demanding the destruction of most of DC; and if they don't get it, will surely turn to violence to do it themselves.
 
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